  River_rat Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 285 Registered: 02-2006 |
Here we go again. The London Stock Exchange had an article on line this Labor Day. It was written by a local and I don't know if it received any local coverage, but here is the source. http://www.londonstockexchange .com/LSECWS/IFSPages/MarketNew sPopup.aspx?id=525571&source=N EWS If there is a strike this year, please turn off the lights when you close the last Michigan auto plant, but please do not forget to pay your union dues. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 320 Registered: 11-2003 |
I think it's a pro-forma kind of thing. It's important to the leadership that the workers authorize a strike so that the leadership can say it's a possibility in negotiations. It's not good at the bargaining table to need to walk away and call a strike but have to wait weeks until a vote is called and tallied. However, I do agree we as a region need to come to terms with the fact manufacturing (for better or worse) in this country has changed - and start utilizing our border with Canada as well as our expertise in areas like robotics (Oakland County is a world leader in that area) to diversify. Automotive will always be big here - GM, Ford, etc. are not going away - but we need a few other big fish as well. It will also help insulate us against the inevitable ups and downs of being a one-industry town. | ||
20043_stotter Member Username: 20043_stotter Post Number: 88 Registered: 03-2007 |
D-vision, you are correct. It is a formality that you want to give your negotiators the power to strike, without necessarily wanting to strike. | ||
River_rat Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 287 Registered: 02-2006 |
I do agree with you that it is pro-forma. This way the vote has really been taken and when the UAW walks, they will cite the overwhelming support of the rank and file. The last time I saw a 99% vote it was for a Soviet leader or Fidel Castro. 99% of UAW members can't believe a strike will help them. I disagree that the automotive industry will always be big here. When you lose money on every unit produced at a plant, there is no way to make it up on volume. They have, and will, leave. Every UAW member needs to understand that 70% of something is better than 100% of nothing. THINK! | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 323 Registered: 11-2003 |
River_rat, I don't know if you comprehend how huge the auto industry really is - it's not just plants, it's engineering, development, advertising - even if they send every manufacturing job and some of the other work overseas, it's still going to be huge here. GM is not going to leave the rencen or close the tech center any time soon. The companies' sheer size and volume means they will always have some value. They'll "right size" to make money on units, and the plants may be shut down, but remember, companies like GM are making their money overseas. It's only North America where they lose money on cars, and that's because of their legacy costs. Get those in line, the Big 3 are making money again. Of course, as a businessperson, I personally think we need national health care. It's health care that has eaten up all gains in almost every sector of the economy, and is forcing everyone to go health-care free as they just simply can't afford it. I was at dinner the other week, and of seven people at the table, these other folks all making 50k or more a year, one had health care, and that's because he was a teacher. | ||
River_rat Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 288 Registered: 02-2006 |
When I was with the union we always had an early vote to authorize a strike. But then we never had a vote to actually have a strike. I would surmise that, once again, this is the case here. We have so much evidence at hand that the old ways of Michigan unionization have resulted in massive job losses, when will the UAW understand the need to moderate it's positions to preserve the industrial base of Michigan and it's own coffers? The time for reality thinking is here and now and it may vanish forever if the opportunity to reduce costs at this time is not taken. And before everyone starts bashing executive salaries (which I do think are too high), why do we accept, willingly, paying $20 million a year to an athlete? Are they worth as much as an exec who is responsible for tens of thousands of jobs? | ||
River_rat Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 289 Registered: 02-2006 |
D-vision, I do know the size of the auto industry and I am aware of all the infrastructure you mention. My business is as a health care advisor to many Fortune 500 companies. As a matter of fact, I have testified to Congress on health care issues. The health care sector directly accounts for about 16-17% of the GNP of which 50% is paid by the US Gov't. The question of national health care is so complex and convoluted that it will take years to initiate, if ever. The increase in taxes required will be shocking and the need to ration the care given will be intolerable to our citizens. I wish it was so easy to place all the blame on health care costs. You know the problems are much deeper than that issue alone. When you bring up GM headquarters at the RenCen, who ever thought Boeing would leave Seattle? (for very different reasons, I agree) | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 324 Registered: 11-2003 |
I wonder then why our real tax rate is so close to the europeans, but we get less services? (it's somewhat of a rhetorical question - I know the answer - military spending) Is it intolerable that we have tens of millions of people without health care? Apparently not to the public, or else something would be done. Unfortunately, I think we'll be a nation that a majority do not have health care soon - I can't tell you how many "well paying jobs" are out there where the businesses just no longer offer health care, and nothing will change. The status quo is much easier for politicians of all stripes is much easier than trying to formulate an answer. I do think anythings possible as far as the big three... but I also think painting doomsday scenarios tends to scare people off more than rally them to a cause. | ||
River_rat Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 290 Registered: 02-2006 |
Returning to the discussion of the absurdity of the thought of a strike. Health care and retirement benefits are the double-edged sword at the throat of the Big 3 in Detroit. What has to happen is that individuals have to start to assume responsibility of saving for themselves and their retirement. And, they have to assume responsibility to pay a portion of their health care. I was the biggest proponent of first dollar coverage for decades, but the abuses of medical care usage have made that option passe. By the way, the greatest expense the US gov't has undertaken in the last 40 years is the $7 trillion we spent since 1967 on the War Against Poverty. I still see a lot of poverty out there. As a society we have abandoned personal responsibility and given that responsibility to unions, corporations and the government. We still have smokers, drug addicts, truancy, lack of parental care and direction, etc. -- all personal responsibility issues. National Health Care (my area of expertise) will be a brutal pill for this population. It will exacerbate the levels of health care to different classes of people. In Europe, the wealthy receive a very different care than the ordinary guy. Will we accept this? I do not know, but I know it will be a bitter pill, just as a reduction in living standard will be for maintaining the jobs of the auto worker in Michigan. Huge dilemmas and few good answers to all the questions. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1876 Registered: 01-2005 |
Lee Iacocca says the big 3 should have taken a strike against one and a lockout by the other two thirty years ago. And he's right. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1136 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote: We have tens of millions of people without health care insurance. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 351 Registered: 02-2007 |
Ray, agreed.. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 78 Registered: 07-2007 |
PS: American Axle probably will close next April... Although I really hope not! Another 1,500+ Jobs Lost! So much for capitalism | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 2167 Registered: 03-2006 |
quote: Michigan and the US in general has been instituting more Socialist policies for decades. Where is it getting us? Loss of jobs and trillions in debt. We were better off in this area when it was a center of capitalism, which it hasn't been in years. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6456 Registered: 02-2004 |
Solidarity forever! The Union marches on. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9753 Registered: 10-2003 |
Nothing wrong with capitalism. The issue at hand is Corporatism which is what we have been seeing in the last decade. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 382 Registered: 05-2004 |
Iacocca is so smart just like a Monday morning quarterback. I didn't see him taking a strike while Chrysler was struggling to come back from the grave. If anything, a one day strike is all I could envision happening. Neither side can afford a shutdown. | ||
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker Post Number: 978 Registered: 02-2004 |
steelworkers union are on strike threat with my company as well. Both locations in indiana and here in dearborn. Its a scary thought but i believe it must be done. My company is very profitable and has been expanding over the last 3 to 6 years. |
