  Winstin_o_boogie_iii Member Username: Winstin_o_boogie_iii Post Number: 85 Registered: 02-2007 |
I am wondering where the two Detroit dailies are in their reporting on this issue... DETROIT — Three top Detroit Public School (DPS) administrators have resigned in the wake of revelations that the state may fine the district nearly $28 million due to its illegal use of 11 “Last Chance” contract schools, and that the district made possibly criminal payments of at least $46 million to risk management vendors. http://michigancitizen.com/def ault.asp?sourceid=&smenu=1&twi ndow=&mad=&sdetail=4918&wpage= 1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccat m=&restate=&restatus=&reoption =&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebe d=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc= 1070&hn=michigancitizen&he=.co m | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2011 Registered: 06-2006 |
Why is it so hard for Detroit to find honest, competent people to run their various public departments? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 701 Registered: 12-2006 |
For the same reasons businesses say they have trouble attracting top talent to the metro area. This is quite well documented. The question ought to be, "how do we fix our City and region so that top talent will want to locate here", not "why do the second-rate people we have do such a lousy job", which answers itself. | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 89 Registered: 07-2007 |
Additionally, there dozens, if not hundreds, of educated, talented people that would love to be public servants, advocates for the children of Detroit, but there is extreme amounts of nepotism at play. It is well understood that 80% of jobs are never really listed, but positions involving public funds should be. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 702 Registered: 12-2006 |
I agree, 'dad, that's a huge problem as well, and not just in public service. There are far too many important positions in life where "insiders" of various types get to walk in through the back door. But I still think too many (not all) of the very best people that could help solve our problems don't want to live around here. Our political "leaders" have created this landscape, and we need to replace a great many of them if we ever are to fix it. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2012 Registered: 06-2006 |
That doesn't explain it...I don't hear as many stories about other cities around here skirting the rules and paying the state multi-million dollar fines because of it...seems like Detroit is always getting itself in some shit through either dishonesty or pure incompetence... (Message edited by thejesus on September 04, 2007) | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 90 Registered: 07-2007 |
I dont know if "replace" is the correct terminology. I would say cultivate. We've got 6 excellent universities in the area. Those 20 somethings that are leaving the area were going to leave anyway. They want good weather and nightlife. We need to get into those universities and discuss some of the areas more pressing needs of the city and to engage them the revival process. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3829 Registered: 10-2004 |
Some thirty years ago, I applied for a fairly responsible public-sector position in Wisconsin--then under the University of Wisconsin-Extension in Madison. After a couple days, they sent me a terse response stating that I had not met one or more criteria--utter bull shit, BTW. Wisconsin state government hiring back then would often narrow down the applicants to the top three after a peer-review interview process comprised of both public-, and in this case, private-sector interviewers. Then, the state agency (by state R&R) could pick ANY of the top three of those interviewed. So, naturally I protested their rejection of me, and they begrudgingly had to allow me to pursue this position further. I had heard through the grapevine employed there that this state agency had already hand-picked the replacement for the person who held that position for the past two decades--his deputy. So, the public announcement of the available position was merely a sham process anyway. However, the deputy still had an obstacle; he had to make it into the top three after the interview process. Well, I heard that the public-sector folks there fed him many of the questions and such for a few days before the interviews. But he still had to convince the private-sector interviewers sufficiently so he could make it into the top three. Well, I had the highest interview score and, luckily for him, the deputy squeaked by because he had the third highest score--all what he (they) needed. Perhaps, if they had allowed more competitors to fully apply for that job, he might have only gotten fourth or worse. So I fully understood why I was initially rejected. Who knows how many others received the same treatment, but didn't protest it? This type of job filling goes on often at the public sector. BTW, it obviously also happens at the private sector too. But remember, state employment is supposed to be an open, fair, and competitive process, but the private sector can determine more freely how they run their businesses. (Message edited by Livernoisyard on September 04, 2007) | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 703 Registered: 12-2006 |
Well, okay, but then we need to make it reasonably practical for young adults to live here, which it isn't. The pro-urban 20 somethings are going to go to cities which support them as they begin their careers (moderate-price housing in vibrant neighborhoods, good public transportation) and the suburban-lifestyle 20 somethings aren't going to engage in the revival process because that's not the kind of gig they're interested in. We have to bootstrap the damned thing somehow. Any thoughts? | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 895 Registered: 01-2005 |
The Detroit Public School system is no longer a school system (as it was in its storied past); it has become a "patronage system," as Newark's system is: "Investigators concluded that the longer a child remained within the Newark public school system, the lower his or her chances of achievement. The schools weren’t simply failing in their teaching mission — they also posed serious health and safety risks to their students. Local officials overlooked these glaring deficiencies largely because jobs and political patronage took precedence over everything else." Isn't this a description of Detroit - glaring deficiencies overlooked because jobs (for friends and family) and political patronage (artwork bought from the Mayor's friend) take precedence over everything else. The only way to save the DPS is to eradicate the patronage mentality that has taken hold in Detroit. | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 92 Registered: 07-2007 |
Continued revival of the midtown area, better marketing of the downtown amenities, develop some of the urban prarie land that covers the urban landscape into mixed use developments. Fully implement DARTA and give this area a real identity in relation to the downtown area. Eliminate the stupid tax subsidies for 300,000 sq ft shopping plazas, and develop prime real estate into theater, gaming, and recreation. No small feat , huh? | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 264 Registered: 08-2007 |
"don't hear as many stories about other cities around here skirting the rules and paying the state multi-million dollar fines because of it." That's because reporters gleefully pounce on any possible mis-management of public funds here. This happens in affluent areas, but it's covered up. I suspect because the publishers of small town or suburban papers run in the same social circles as school superintendents; it's the good old boys network in action. In fact, there's a certain well to do district that can't account for 600K; I've seen the auditors report. Only district insiders know; the local paper apparently does not find it newsworthy. Curious, is it not? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3830 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: Translation: more special interests feeding at the government level and increased socialism. BTW, gaming has to draw in people from way outside Metro Detroit in order to have any effective overall economic benefit. Having a few bus loads of geriatrics from Indiana or Ohio just won't cut it. SE Michigan needs to export much more goods or services than it's doing at present. Any projections from security analysts for that increasing are really dismal, and decreases in exporting are predicted for the next decade. Hell, that's been happening for almost a full decade already and it's still not improving. Hint: Where are all those Detroiters going and why? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1535 Registered: 04-2006 |
Isn't this a description of Detroit - glaring deficiencies overlooked because jobs (for friends and family) and political patronage (artwork bought from the Mayor's friend) take precedence over everything else. No. It's a glaring oversimplification of the situation, and thus not really addressing the problem. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 896 Registered: 01-2005 |
Patronage is an immense problem - its not an oversimplification to articulate it. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2016 Registered: 06-2006 |
Oakmangirl: You seem more troubled by this so-called media bias against Detroit than at the fact these DPS clowns are going to cost the city millions in fines...why am I not surprised? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1537 Registered: 04-2006 |
Patronage is an immense problem - its not an oversimplification to articulate it. Yeah, but... Patronage occurs everywhere. Is it more of a crime when it happens in the governments of the poorer municipalities? | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 93 Registered: 07-2007 |
This area needs a mass transit system. Urban Dwellers that can barely afford to get to work and afford groceries couldn't care less about someone's idea of government interference or socialistic ideations. Poor people need a way to get to the few jobs that remain in the area, which happen to be, in relation to downtown, in exurbia. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 835 Registered: 11-2003 |
"You seem more troubled by this so-called media bias against Detroit than at the fact these DPS clowns are going to cost the city millions in fines...why am I not surprised?" Exactly. If it's true that this kind of thing is happening in the suburbs and the media is ignoring it than I'm angry about it. I wish the majors newspapers would set up camp in the city hall in which I live and go over the cities books with a fine toothed comb. If they're wasting my money I want to know about it. (Message edited by rjk on September 04, 2007) | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 897 Registered: 01-2005 |
Well, jobs for friends and family probably do occur everywhere. What defines a patronage system is that the ostensible purpose of the public enterprise is subverted to the goal of providing jobs and economic gain to friends and family of the insiders. Patronage can be a crime - public corruption is what the feds call it. Not everyone does it. Are you somehow justifying it because you think it occurs "everywhere"? I refer to it because in some regions it is rooted out when it is observed. New York recently discarded its regional school board system because it was so patronage-influenced. Detroit needs to recognize the root of the DPS problem and do more to address it before this school system will become competitive. The children and their schools are the ones to be served by the system - whether it provides jobs and contracts (and to whom) must become secondary. Iheartthed - I never before voted no on a Detroit millage because I am a teacher by profession and I believe that I, as a citizen, must invest in our children's future. But lately I've been voting no because the money patently isn't making to the schools, the teachers and the kids. You can continue to turn a blind eye to what's going on by dismissing any consideration of the issue as, absurdly, a "simplification", or you can excuse it by saying that "everyone does it," but I don't want to. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1538 Registered: 04-2006 |
Are you somehow justifying it because you think it occurs "everywhere"? I'm not justifying anything. My point is that the media will sensationalize instances of corrupt doings in the school system and leave the audience to conclude that this is the sole reason for the disparities. Did it get corrupt before or after it got bad? | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 378 Registered: 05-2004 |
Where there is money and little or no oversight, you will find this stuff happening all the time. It just so happens it happens in Detroit all the time. |
