 
Ericdetfan
Member
Username: Ericdetfan
Post Number: 167
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 10:42 pm: |    |
That would suck for those with Closterfobia....lol
I took a few pics of FLW inspired homes in my area today. I named them based on the names of the streets that they are on.
http://img.photobucket.com/alb ums/v339/ericexp/FLW/Bonair.jp g
http://img.photobucket.com/alb ums/v339/ericexp/FLW/Bonair2.j pg
Even though FLW rarely used angled roofs, I can certianly understand why someone building an FLW inspired house like The Boniar house would. I think that was one of the biggest problems with his houses and its something that for the most part, he refused to compromise on. I have noticed that FLW seemed to prefer carports over garages on ones that he actually designed, so The bonair house is a good example of one. The Bonair also features pronounced angles, deep eves, custom doors, and stonework that FLW was famous for. The bonair house is off a ravine, which seems to be pretty popular in this area. The entire back on the house is windowed and the basement opens into the ravine. the only thig that ruins it for me is that someone covered up the woodwork with tan vinyl siding.
http://img.photobucket.com/alb ums/v339/ericexp/FLW/Rosetta.j pg
http://img.photobucket.com/alb ums/v339/ericexp/FLW/Rosetta2. jpg
The Rosetta house is closer to a 60's or 70'sranch than an FLW inspired house. The most noticeable reason is that the walls are stucco and painted white. FLW would have used wood, brick, stone. It caught my eye because it does have some FLW influence. The carport with the wood storage built-ins. Also the Stone wall that joins the breezeway to the house, and the large oddly shaped windows are FLW all the way.
http://img.photobucket.com/alb ums/v339/ericexp/FLW/Hillcrest .jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/alb ums/v339/ericexp/FLW/Hillcrest 2.jpg
The Hillcrest house is probably the best example of a FLW inspired house within 20 miles of me. It has a flat roof ,many deep eves and overhangs, and the stone and wood exterior that FLW was famous for. It is also a ravine lot house that the basement opens into the ravine. It does have a dormer 2nd floor that would not refect FLW's work, unless it a loft. Even though it does have a garage, its probably the original wood door, complete with custom wood trim. I also don't believe that FLW would have liked the sea foam and cream paint, either. lol |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 1712
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 5:42 am: | |
If you enjoy FLW houses take a look at the work of one of his apprentices, John Lautner.
http://www.arcaid.captureweb.c o.uk/Architects/Lautner.htm |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 144
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 7:12 am: | |
Im having breakfast right now. It almost came back up after seeing that green paint!
The styling of the rosetta house really isn't that uncommon.Seems like I recall seeing a few houses like that in the Bloomfield area.Its a prime example of 50's contemporary.There were a few houses like it in the aforementioned, demolished FLW cooperative homes. I took photos of that area right before demolition. No guarantees, but if I can find them, I MIGHT be able to scan them and post them.Again, no guarantees. |
Miss_cleo
Member
Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 857
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 10:41 am: | |
Maybe if we had more FLW in the city proper, we'd have more white people. Oh, can't forget the House of Blues must be close by....
------------------------------ ------------------
what the heck kind of comment is that???? |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 288
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 11:16 am: | |
Related to other threads you perhaps didn't read. |
Miss_cleo
Member
Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 859
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 12:59 pm: | |
Oh I read fine, I notice all your throwing out the race card to suit your needs. |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 289
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 1:23 pm: | |
Miss_cleo,
It was meant to be in jest. A reference to middle - upper middle class "white" tastes for certain arts like British blues musicians, demi-god architects, and the like. Yes, I'm guilty of generalizations, but I'm white too, so it's self-deprecating humor, not a race card. Get it?
Please try to move beyond this silly, over-simplified, knee-jerk reaction. I think you need to read some of the other, even more stereotyped rants on white culture before singling me out. Then, if you really do have issue with *just* me, bring it on. As to my "needs", please elaborate as you know me so well. If you really have something to say, please do go on. |
Detroitplanner
Member
Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 1409
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 10:53 pm: | |
About 14 years ago I the 'opportunity' to stay in a property designed by Wright. The building was refined by an associate of his and built after his death. I was on I-94 heading to Chicago and the snow forced me off the road for the night. (When you pass by several big trucks that are flipped over you know you got to get off the road).
Well the Snowflake Motel was oddly designed, and not very well maintained. Our room was cold all night in spite of the furnace never going off. When we woke in the morning, I opened the shades and found several feet of snow that had come through the gaps in the poor-fitting doorwall. It did have a bar and a coffee shope which was sort of cool as we were pretty much stuck there.
This was one of the few Wright buildings with an angled roof. It also had lots of buil-in furniture. Here is a link with some pics. The building looked very much like this when I stayed there.
http://www.michiganupperpenins ula.com/out/hotelinfo/89163.ht ml
Every few years or so I'd drive by the place and check it out. It kept getting worse. A few years ago, it was wiped off the map. |
Ericdetfan
Member
Username: Ericdetfan
Post Number: 168
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 12:41 am: | |
Well lets just say that was the worst of his work..lol |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 54
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 8:13 am: | |
Miss Cleo-
Spreading joy again are we? So nice to read your blissful words. |
Ericdetfan
Member
Username: Ericdetfan
Post Number: 169
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 11:09 am: | |
http://img.photobucket.com/alb ums/v339/ericexp/58_1.jpg
Mystic Valley House in Bloomfield |
Miss_cleo
Member
Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 864
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 11:17 am: | |
How about if I say We would have more black folks up here, if we only had more liquor stores and fried chicken shops?
oops! it was only meant as sarcastic! |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 306
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 11:23 am: | |
Cleo,
I'm white; poking fun at myself. Yeesh, how many times DOES a person have to explain things to you?
If you find it offensive, "boofuckinhoo", as you so eloquently like to say. |
Rjk
Member
Username: Rjk
Post Number: 842
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 11:29 am: | |
What is it with you people that have to get in these little pissing matches? I'm reading through a thread about FLW and I have to go through posts that seem like they're written by little kids. |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 307
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 12:02 pm: | |
True, Rjk. Apologies. I was (somewhat) peacefully letting everyone worship the FLW legacy and let Miss C push my buttons. It's so interesting to read too when their is no real debate over his failed designs beyond a few people who dare question the cult of FLW. Just more of the same blind worship.
Let's see...instead of posting a link to a home or building with no questions or thoughts on it, or taking part in a childish pissing contest, let's try actually stating what we think is genius about the design, faulty, or both.
For example, Goethe called architecture "frozen music"- do FLW's designs embody this poetic viewpoint? I think that on paper, they do; aesthetically, the parts harmonize together beautifully. Is that enough, or should a structure, to be truly magnificent, also be soundly engineered? Any other thoughts? |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 108
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 7:03 pm: | |
FLW was far ahead of his time for some projects and some available materials and couldn't last long enough to support his designs. Anyone here is free to try to design a building that will stand the test of time of form+function+creativity. You could become Rich! |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3234
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 7:13 pm: | |
quote:FLW was far ahead of his time for some projects and some available materials and couldn't last long enough to support his designs.
It's not Wright's choices of materials that were faulty. Most of the issues with his houses relate to poor detailing, especially with regard to channeling water away from the building. You'll note I stated above that the cantilevers at Fallingwater had one-quarter the amount of reinforcing steel that would be required to properly limit deflection--a major serviceability issue--that Wright conscientiously ignored because of his massive ego.
His Kentuck Knob house has the kitchen located in the center of the house. The only window is a skylight. Because of this design decision, the kitchen is the hottest room in the entire house.
Any structure requires proper maintenance, no matter what materials are used. Wright just made a lot of terrible design decisions because his ego was more important to him than the practicality of the building or the cost, which counters everything good architects are trained to do.
(Message edited by DaninDC on September 09, 2007) |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 318
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 7:33 pm: | |
Lefty2,
FLW was a visionary designer, but I think your argument about materials being unavailable holds little weight (no pun intended). As Danindc shared earlier:
Through investigation, it was found the original design called for approximately one quarter the reinforcing bars that would be required under modern design standards to limit deflection. The original contractor expressed this concern to Wright, and he more-or-less told them to "go to hell." The contractor, without Wright's knowledge, doubled the amount of reinforcing bars.
As for designing a creative structure that does not ignore function, many others have done so. See Greene & Greene for a great example. I think they may have even influenced FLW in furniture design, as all were taken with Asian forms.
The Gamble House
http://www.gamblehouse.org/ |
Ericdetfan
Member
Username: Ericdetfan
Post Number: 171
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 12:13 am: | |
They should be soundly engineered, but thats not always the way it happens. Most of FLW's homes are ok in both form an function. like most artists FLW loved to experiment with different concepts and designs...Not 2 houses are completely alike that he designed..Thats the way he wanted it and thats the way it should be. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3240
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 9:45 am: | |
^Still doesn't excuse crappy detailing and glaringly bad design decisions! |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 1725
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 11:33 am: | |
Correct me if I'm wrong Scotty, but if the house isn't on a sound foundation (a metaphor used for everything else from marriage to business) and the structure can't support itself all of the look and style of the house doesn't mean much........for long |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1369
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 11:46 am: | |
Does anybody have any information about Robert Silman Associates and their use of Non-Destructive Evaluation (NDE) techniques for existing and historic buildings? |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3248
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 11:52 am: | |
*AHEM* What would you like to know? |
Ericdetfan
Member
Username: Ericdetfan
Post Number: 174
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 1:20 pm: | |
56packman,
Agreed, but most of flws structures have withstood the test of time quite well. I think that if FLWs were created in mass, we might have less issues with houses that were built 100 to 50 years ago falling apart. If that were the case thought this topic prolly wouldn't exist. lol
I think, much like odd cars; that FLWS styles wow us and open our imaginations. When we see one we just cant help but stop and take a look. |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1354
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 1:37 pm: | |
For those who appreciate FLW's architecture from a distance it opens their minds. But those who would own one must open their wallets whenever it rains. |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 1730
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 1:48 pm: | |
Quote: "I think, much like odd cars; that FLWS styles wow us and open our imaginations. When we see one we just cant help but stop and take a look."
Funny you should say that--FLW owned and drove a Cord L-29, the first mass produced (not really mass produced per se) front wheel drive American car from 1929 until his death in 1959. It is literally the automotive equivalent of his homes--nice to look at, another thing all together to live with every day. The L-29 is one of the worst cars I have ever driven. The three-speed transmission has straight cut gears without synchronizers, you double-clutch and still crunch every gear change. Weird steering (adjusted for the norms of that era), push n' pray brakes. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3252
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 2:00 pm: | |
More Wright stuff--this time, the Guggenheim.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09 /10/arts/design/10gugg.html?_r =2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 325
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 3:54 pm: | |
"But those who would own one must open their wallets whenever it rains."
LOL. So Goethe's description of architecture as frozen music does apply to FLW, except in his case, it's actually more "fluid". |
Ericdetfan
Member
Username: Ericdetfan
Post Number: 176
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 12:27 am: | |
Thats an interesting observation, prolly why most of the FLW tribute homes chose to go with angled roofs instead of the Flat ones. The Mystic Valley house was for sale when I went to look at it. I was able to speak with the owner and she told me that the roof was brand new. I guess I should have asked her how often she had done that... lol
I posted my FLW findings on livejournal in my detroit community. I got some pretty cool responses, including this:
http://www.sellmodern.com/sear chresults.html |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1363
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 11:23 am: | |
I like Wright for his showmanship, but his ideas just didn't hold water. (mwah-mwah-mwahhhh)
Reportedly, when paid by Detroit for advice, he proposed demolishing the city of Detroit entirely and starting over, and even presented the idea before City Council. Now that takes some stones! (And it looks increasingly as though they took his advice to heart!) |
Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline
Post Number: 895
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 11:47 am: | |
The FLW/flat roof thing should be a complete non-issue in the 21st Century. For some time now, roofing technology has eliminated the disadvantages of flat roofs in all but the harshest of winter climates. If you have a flat roof on your historic house and continue to add on inch after inch of rolled roofing every seven years and haven't upgraded to one of the single-ply vinyl systems, you deserve your leaks. Heck, if your house is in a historic district in Michigan, you can get a tax credit for doing the work. |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1367
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 12:17 pm: | |
Swing: Is that what you call a "built-up" roof? |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 334
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 2:56 pm: | |
Vinyl on a FLW? Blasphemy! It's like desecrating a shrine.
Speaking of man-made materials, does the Detroit area host any Lustron homes? I think of what could be if Guyton had a hold on one of those.
http://home.earthlink.net/~ron usny/
**Answered my own question; there are several in Oak Park.
(Message edited by oakmangirl on September 11, 2007) |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1368
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 3:19 pm: | |
I saw a pretty good documentary on Lustron houses a few years ago. The 1930s and 1940s were the last decades with such experimentation in U.S. housing. I think after that the building industry locked us in with the wasteful, uncreative building codes we have today. Though I don't have a lot of love for old FLW, he was part of an exciting time when people were shedding old architectural habits and striking out in new directions. And, for all of the building codes' practicability (I can already hear contractors grumbling about how many people would die each year if not for standardized building codes bla bla bla), these codes were mostly written by the industry that savored every chance to write their own profits into law, and as such they have had a regressive effect on our quality of life in the United States.
Oakmangirl: Took me a few reads to get it, but you've twisted the line from Goethe into quite a joke! E-mail me at detroitsnerd at gmail.com to get your free Lustron video! |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 335
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 3:47 pm: | |
Ahem, yes I guess I am a little twisted. Video? What kind of word play earns a genuine, vintage Lustron home brochure? That would be the cat's pyjamas!
Agreed on your latest post. I often wonder what historians will make of our preference for "ticky tacky" boxes and our disregard for preservation. |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1371
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 4:17 pm: | |
The film is called "Lustron - The House America’s Been Waiting For". It's not bad, but probably great for somebody who's really into it! (HINT)
Yeah -- hopefully, future historians will not be so reluctant to examine how people have had their housing "choices" artificially restricted by codes, lobbies, broad-brush zoning, automotive subsidies, etc. Essentially, energy-saving houses are for people with deep pockets (the government, the well-to-do), and -- unless you're an engineer who can file papers on everything -- the best housing designs can not be lawfully built! Meanwhile, the industry just keeps churning out the same old fuel-hogging houses with water-hogging lawns in gas-hogging subdivisions. And nobody dares question it. |
Ericdetfan
Member
Username: Ericdetfan
Post Number: 177
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 8:25 pm: | |
I was in chicago this past summer and went to the sears Tower skydeck. There was some writing on the wall that described a FLW designed skyscraper that was one of the original concepts for the the tower. I remember it sayin that his concept was too tall to build and had nuclear powered elevators that could carry 1000 people at a time. FLW certianly had some big ideas..lol |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 339
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 9:37 pm: | |
Eric, that's just downright creepy- a disaster waiting to happen. I can understand the excitement of innovatively using materials and energy, but if he suggested this post WWII...that's just plain stupid. I'm really beginning to cement my suspicion this man was a megalomaniacal twit. And this would meld with the Chicago building vernacular how? |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 119
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 10:02 pm: | |
i worked for frank ghery in santa monica, ca and he awed flw's work. he saw the genius and used some of it in his work.
again, if you can create anything like flw did, people will pay you handsomely |
Ericdetfan
Member
Username: Ericdetfan
Post Number: 178
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 11:15 pm: | |
I must agree with you on that. Your thoughts are prolly exactly what everyone else thought and thats why none of FLW's influence made it into the Tower. He was much better at designing homes.. |
Lahinch
Member
Username: Lahinch
Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 1:04 pm: | |
Here's a local architect's personal residence for sale in Bloomfield Twp. The built-in furniture in one of the rooms reminded me a bit of FLW, as well as the public spaces looking over the woods.
http://www.realestateone.com/c ontent/PropertyBrochure.asp?li stingNumber=e27093755&agentNum ber=314199 |
Ericdetfan
Member
Username: Ericdetfan
Post Number: 181
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 6:44 pm: | |
Not quite a FLW inspired home, but I think it fits here.
http://img.photobucket.com/alb ums/v339/ericexp/Picture011-2. jpg
This home is downriver and the photo does not do it justice. I shall try to get a closer peak at it one of these days. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5365
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 10:34 pm: | |
For you FLW fans, see the Classified Ads... I'm offering 5 architecture books for sale, including a colossal 416 page full color Visual Encyclopedia on all of FLW's works. |
Jiminnm
Member
Username: Jiminnm
Post Number: 1424
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 10:52 pm: | |
If you're ever in wester Pennsylvania, take a tour of Fallingwater. It's an incredible house:
http://www.paconserve.org/inde x-fw1.asp |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3303
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 11:36 pm: | |
And the almost-as-impressive FLW house Kentuck Knob is just four short miles from Fallingwater:
http://www.kentuckknob.com/ |
Kathleen
Member
Username: Kathleen
Post Number: 2506
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 6:56 am: | |
Local Frank Lloyd Wright homes open for tour this Saturday through the 44th Annual Bloomfield Antique Show at the Cross of Christ Lutheran Church, 1100 Lone Pine Road (northwest corner of Lone Pine Rd. at Telegraph), Bloomfield Hills.
”Tour and Discussion: Frank Lloyd Wright,” Saturday, October 6, 2007, 1pm-4pm. In conjunction with the 44th Annual Bloomfield Antique Show, Frank Lloyd Wright scholar Dale Gyure, Associate Dean of Architecture at Lawrence Technological University, will discuss Wright’s work, and lead a tour of both Affleck House and Smith House in Bloomfield Hills. After attending the Antique Show and lecture, participants must provide their own transportation to and from the houses. Free with paid Antique Show admission, $6. Reservations recommended; call 248-646-5886 to register and for more information. |
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