 
Bratt
Member
Username: Bratt
Post Number: 604
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 6:34 pm: |    |
Since there are so many threads on blacks in Detroit, I just thought I would start a white people one.
I know that many of you live in the city and love the city and for the most part claim that you are not racist.
Question: For those of you who have children, do they go to DPS? Do they play outside with the neighborhood children? Do they go to the playground with neighborhood children? Do they walk to the corner stores? Do they sleep over for slumber parties with the neighborhood children?
I have known many white families who lived in the city and claimed to have loved the city, but as soon as they start having children, they move out of the city.
Thoughts please... |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 566
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 6:42 pm: | |
I wouldnt put my kids, black or white, in a majority of DPS schools or city neighborhoods at this point either. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9923
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 6:47 pm: | |
Bratt - Interesting thread. I think that we both know the direction this conversation (based upon a simple question) will lead.
I wonder why? |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4864
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 6:52 pm: | |
Bratt for the most part most simply love the city...
...now the majority of the city's populace is a different story. But like I said, it is some but not all... |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 332
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 7:21 pm: | |
Or, Bratt, send them to private school.
As much as DPS does have problems - I truly believe a huge part of education is about parenting. If you have parents that make sure you do your homework and are involved in your education, you're going to do well wherever you are. |
Mackcreative
Member
Username: Mackcreative
Post Number: 99
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 7:27 pm: | |
I do have two children in the city of Detroit, the one in school doesn't go to DPS, judge if you like.
Her best friends are our "neighborhood" kids--from your initial question I assume "neighborhood" is the code word for lower income Black today? They have sleepovers, go to the park, play in the yard, everybody knows them as they pet every dog that passes by.
I realize my tone is somewhat defensive, but it seems this thread is trying to poke a tender spot and start an argument that is so tired. |
Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 382
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 7:27 pm: | |
^That's the same w/ the suburbs thought too. Too many parents today think it's the schools job to babysit their children above and beyond. Having the best school district in the region is, in my opinion reason #1 why communities fail (eventhough their schools might be just fine) in Southeast Michigan.
I remember when I first moved here in 2004, a family was moving to Minnesota for the sole reason that the schools in Royal Oak did not fit their standard. I was waiting for the real reason. |
Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1288
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 8:19 pm: | |
Bratt--it's not just Detroit. Chicago too. Urbanites pop out kids and immediately jet off to Naperville or Schaumburg. I don't think this is a black/white or even a Detroit issue (though it may be more pronounced in Detroit). |
Jenniferl
Member
Username: Jenniferl
Post Number: 394
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 8:22 pm: | |
Rocket City,
The Royal Oak schools are a mess. It isn't because of the parents not raising their kids right, though. It's that the people at the top make these insane decisions, such as putting all the high school kids in one building while that building is still being renovated, or changing elementary school let-out time to 4PM. Your neighbors who left for Minnesota probably lived near one of the many schools that were shut down.
If by "waiting for the real reason" you're implying something racial, I've only heard about a handful of incidents. Most of these involved schools-of-choice kids from Pontiac who brought their racial/ethnic rivalry with them (from what I heard, it was blacks vs. Albanians) when they transferred to Royal Oak. The Royal Oak kids and parents didn't want to have anything to do with that crap, and who can blame them? But this was a few years ago, before the two high schools consolidated. I don't think Royal Oak takes too many schools-of-choice kids at the secondary level anymore.
From what I've seen at the schools my nieces have attended, there are some black and Asian kids. Not a lot, but many more than they had in Royal Oak when I was a kid and the schools were 99-percent white. Now it's maybe 80-something percent white. But I noticed that several of the nonwhite kids have white parents, especially the Asians.
Back to the original question... I don't have kids, but if I had little ones I'd be willing to give the DPS a chance. There are some schools that have good reputations. I remember there was a poster here on this forum who lived in Lafayette Park and sent her kids to Chrysler Elementary. She said a lot of good things about that school, so if I was raising kids in that area I would check it out. But the secondary schools are a different matter-- I refuse to send any child of mine to a high school that's so bad that the Detroit police department has to put a mini-station in the building. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 327
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 9:01 pm: | |
RC & others - when is it acceptable for a parent, white or otherwise, to abandon a school district?
I believe that I understand your point (racist motivations at the heart of plenty of whites, right?) but I also believe that the reasonable person can conclude that a district no longer provides a desired level of service long before one must sink to racial issues.
I'm hoping that you'll address my question because then I believe that you'll be echoing the arguments of parents of all colors who have bailed on a lot of school districts. |
Ericdetfan
Member
Username: Ericdetfan
Post Number: 156
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 9:29 pm: | |
I went to George Washington Carver Elementary in Warrendale from 1994 to 1996. Granted that was a long time ago and a lot has changed then. Even back then the DPS had problems, so its nothing new really... Presently, I do not think I would send my child (if I had any) to a DPS. |
Bratt
Member
Username: Bratt
Post Number: 605
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 9:38 pm: | |
MackCreative:
No, neighborhood kids are not low income blacks...and yes that was a little offensive. Considering I live in Detroit with children. |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4865
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 9:45 pm: | |
quote:I realize my tone is somewhat defensive, but it seems this thread is trying to poke a tender spot and start an argument that is so tired.
No I don't think that Bratt has started this thread with the intent that you may be thinking about Mack. If you look at the forum as of late, with all of the threads concerning Blacks, the Black experience, and the Black Perspective of the CoD, it's funny becuase mostly white (from the information that is given) posters are on there giving their opinions why they think Blacks in the city think or why they do the things they do...
What the point of this thread is it seems to get moreso the White perspective of the City of Detroit...
But then again thats what I see... |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9936
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 9:49 pm: | |
quote:it's funny becuase mostly white (from the information that is given) posters are on there giving their opinions why they think Blacks in the city think or why they do the things they do...
You may want to change that to read:
it's funny becuase mostly white (from the information that is given) posters are on there giving their opinions why they (delete think) know Blacks in the city think or why they do the things they do...
That is why I like to harass so many people that know the 'black experience' and like to generalize that 'black experience' as if every black lives, thinks and feels the same. |
Kova
Member
Username: Kova
Post Number: 118
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 11:00 pm: | |
why does this thread assume that the whites in Detroit are all gentrifiers. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 1047
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 11:40 pm: | |
People leave urban areas when they have children because it becomes very expensive and often difficult to live in a city with children. When kids come along you need more room. Private schools are often necessary. Play areas are often few and far between. It is much easier to live in a neighborhood built around and focused on facilitating life for families with children. There is no need to apologize.
Young childless people tend to move into urban areas. No one is questioning why or admonishing them for the trend. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 705
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 11:58 pm: | |
We moved out of Detroit just because we got tired of being victims of crime. However, before that, we had discussed that when we had kids we would move out before they were school age, because of DPS. We lived in a mixed-race neighborhood when our kids were young, and everybody got together for cookouts, sleepovers and so forth.
Color was never an issue with us, and isn't. But we only get one chance to raise our children, so we wanted good schools, and safe schools, and DPS just did not (and does not) fill the bill. I think DPS is the single largest reason so many have left and still leave the City.
Now, I do take my family into the City for a variety of events and other things, and we have a great time. I hope when they have kids things have changed to where they feel they can raise them in the City. But I know too much to be very optimistic. |
Jiscodazz
Member
Username: Jiscodazz
Post Number: 48
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 12:04 am: | |
Last time I checked a ton of blacks don't want to send their kids to DPS either. The burbs are getting more diverse every day and schools are a leading factor. Those Detroiters with kids who can leave, seem to be doing so. |
Detroitej72
Member
Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 629
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 12:06 am: | |
I guess I'm a total misfit, as I was born, raised, and have lived in Detroit most of my life.*
I'm one of the supporters of 'the D', and listen to all the naysayer from the burbs tell me what a fool I am for living south of not just 8 Mile, but south of 696!!!
Oh well, I live a few blocks from the hospital where I was born, and less than 5 miles from where I grew up.
I've traveled to 3 different countries, 11 states, and 3 time zones, yet I still call this place home, yet I CHOOSE to live in the 313...
Eastside till I die!!!
*I now live in Hamtramck(totally surrounded by Detroit), so I guess I 'fleed' Detroit.
As someone smarter than me once said, "Ignorance is bliss"
(Message edited by detroitej72 on September 05, 2007) |
Gianni
Member
Username: Gianni
Post Number: 298
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 1:56 am: | |
We are white and live in Lafayette Park. We have 2 kids.
The older one just graduated from our neighborhood DPS school which is K-5. She literally could not have done any better, scoring at the top of all the tests they gave her. By the 5th grade she was the only white kid in her class. She and her mom and dad (me) made some good friends there and we will miss it a lot. The test scores of the school in general were excellent and higher than a lot of suburban elementary schools (including Birmingham) where some of her cousins go.
The younger one went there through 1st grade and also excelled socially and academically. Also the only white kid in her class. We took her out for second grade because we did not like the 2nd grade teacher.
Where we live in LP, although there are more and more younger children (toddlers and infants) and some teenagers, there are not a lot of grade school or middle school age children. But for us leaving the city is not an option we are considering. I do not want to live in the suburbs and neither do my wife or kids. Really.
We are very comfortable here because the positives far outweigh the negatives. And for us, the "positives" of the suburban experience are just not enough.
Yes there is less crime in the suburbs. But we don't have the fear gene so it's not enough to make us move. I've been all over the world and seen and done some amazing things. If I had let "caution" and worries about how "dangerous" these places were control me I would have missed many profound and life changing experiences. If you are afraid of the world it is easy to keep yourself seemingly perfectly safe. But you'll miss much of the wonder and beauty the world has to offer.
Compared to Detroit, the suburbs are a shopper's paradise. But we don't really like shopping.
This past weekend, we got fresh produce from local farmers at Eastern Market; the weekend before we even got fresh produce from DETROIT farmers/gardeners. We went to the Jazz Fest every day. We saw the best fireworks ever, better than the world class Freedom Fest fireworks we see every year. We rowed our inflatable raft on the Detroit River, and picked the first crop of apples from our secret (I'll never tell) wild Detroit apple tree. We got fresh bread at Avalon that beats anything this side of Toronto. We can walk to the river in a few minutes. We have friends in the local restaurants/ice cream shops/etc. who we visit regularly. We ride our bikes around downtown and to Belle Isle. We go to the beach at Belle Isle (another Detroit secret). We hear church bells like we do in the old country. We can and do walk to church just about every week. There are four magnificent churches within less than a 10 minute walk (and I'm only counting the Catholic churches). We walk everywhere, even though we have 2 cars. Some of the homeless people know us so well they ony ask "how are you?" or "how are the kids" and never (or almost never) ask for a handout. And we have only scratched the surface of the positive Detroit experience.
What I'm saying is that this is a great place to raise your kids and if all of you scaredycats who are on the fence would have the courage to get out of your comfort zone for a few minutes you would see what I mean; more important, you would make this city an even better place for your kids and mine. I grew up in Livonia. I am not some crazy ass radical, but in most ways your average middle class white guy.
After six good years in DPS, this year we decided on private schools because we wanted more diversity. And but for one teacher we would have kept our younger child at the neighborhood DPS school where she has many friends; we may yet send her back next year. There were some really exceptional teachers there and it remains to be seen whether the even more underpaid private school teachers will be better. It was a very hard decision to leave DPS. But it was an easy decision to not leave Detroit. |
Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main
Post Number: 1276
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 2:25 am: | |
I am Black and my wife is White...we live in the city and all of my children attend DPS.
My oldest son(6) has been in DPS since he was 3 years old in the Special Education Program. This year he was main streamed into regular education. I am extremely pleased with the education that he has received thus far and look forward to him being in 1st grade this year.
Our 5 year old completed kindergarten last year. Of course that means I have two first graders which should make homework time a bit easier. the elder son is strong in math, the younger in reading and art.
My oldest daughter is in the same school as the boys. She is 12 and holds a steady 3.8 GPA. She is loved by her teachers and classmates alike.
I think the #1 reason for our children's success is that we are participating parents. I attend the LSCO meetings as much as I can. We both volunteer our time and there is always a parent present when attending field trips.
I did not mention that we live 5 miles from their school. There are schools in our area (Webster and Earhart) but we choose to give our current school the nod, deep in the inner city(Sherrill Elementary). I must say that we have always had good teachers for our children. I actually think that the good students end up with the good teachers.
(Message edited by broken_main on September 05, 2007) |
Detroitej72
Member
Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 635
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 2:27 am: | |
Amen, Gianni... |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 701
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 2:50 am: | |
Enjoyable read, especially Gianni and Broken_main. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 1049
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 7:05 am: | |
Those are both great stories to hear.I hope to hear many many more |
Bratt
Member
Username: Bratt
Post Number: 606
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 9:24 am: | |
Monahan...are you serious? |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6466
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 11:03 am: | |
So far Detroit's white population now stands at 11% (92,796) down from 1,600,000 in 1950. Detroit used to be mostly white until segregation, xenophobia, freeways, suburban sprawl, the 67 riots, integration of bussing and Detroit Public Schools, growing black population, the election on Coleman A. Young, black dominance in all Detroit neighborhoods after 1975,poor police force, economic flight, violent crime, crack epidemic and city corruption. cause lots of whites to flee to the suburbs or away from Detroit as soon as possible. There are still a few white communities located near the suburban borders like Warrendale, Oakwood Heights and parts of Southwest Detroit Old Redford, Brightmoor Hieghts, Balduck Park and North Cass Corridor area.
The Detroit Public School system is mostly black. Most DPS school buildings in the west, east side have student population of over 99% black. Some DPS buildings in Southwest Detroit are 89% Mexican/Hispanic. There is a DPS school that are mostly white:
O.W. Holmes Elementary
And some other private and public charter schools that are mostly white.
So far there are a fewer white families living in Detroit ghettohoods for they take pride in their city and there are few older white parents still living in Detroit not giving up their homes until their heath decline.
Due to new development for lofts, condos and single family homes around the Downtown Detroit and Midtown areas. New kind a of white folks are moving back to Detroit. They are the hip cool skinny jean white kids. Leaving their parents suburban cookie cutter pleasantville neighborhoods to seek a new life and action in Detroit and they are slowly growing and the demand for housing is going up.
White folks will make a come back to Detroit not by families by empty nesters. This process would take over 50 years to a populated white community back to Detroit for good. |
Granmontrules
Member
Username: Granmontrules
Post Number: 156
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 11:35 am: | |
Gianni - Thank you. I forwarded your post to my wife. We feel exactly the same as you and your spouse feel. We love it here! This is our home. Our children are also in DPS and are doing very well. They are a minority in their class being white, however, there are plenty of black kids in mostly white suburban schools and they don't complain! My kids love their schools, they are happy and doing fine. And my wife and I have no desire to move or go to the burbs - there is too much richness in our lives here to ever consider a change. |
Susanarosa
Member
Username: Susanarosa
Post Number: 1652
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 11:48 am: | |
quote:There is a DPS school that are mostly white:
O.W. Holmes Elementary
Mostly white, but also very Arab. |
Eric_w
Member
Username: Eric_w
Post Number: 321
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 11:50 am: | |
When I lived in Detroit I sent my son to a Catholic school for safety. He would have attended Herman Gardens elementary and no way was I sending him there-even black neighbors said it was a terrible place.
My kids played with the black kids and mostly got along however when any dispute arose the blacks quickly closed ranks and made it an issue white vs. black & we were the bigots. There were several in the 11 years we lived in Detroit. I learned to live with it. Same with adults-I usually got along but several times when issues arose we were ganged up on by other black neighbors. I'm convinced that a huge number of black people in Detroit don't like whites & I've had black people I thought were friends tell me so. So now I keep my distance. I will be cordial and polite and never be rude to any black folks but I try to avoid them as much as I can. Ones I work with I treat with respect and decency but I would never socialize with any of them. I don't go to any outside work functions like Xmas parties or picnics. My kids hang out with some black kids now and I'll never tell them not to. they are welcome as friends of my son & daughter.Maybe my generation has too much baggage ( born in 1956 ).
Back in 70's & 80's I often went to jazz clubs that were were mostly black ( Cobb's Corner, Bert's,Bakers, The Rappa House) to the riverfront festivals and the Montreaux /Detroit Jazz Fest & always got along but after my experiences on the Detroit's West Side I'll stick to CD's at home or clubs in burbs-to me it's not worth a chance. |
Buyamerican
Member
Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 161
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 11:52 am: | |
Isn't anyone alarmed that there are Police Mini-Stations in some schools now? That thought scares me to death today. When I went to elementary, junior high and high school (all in Detroit), there was never a NEED for police to patrol the halls or be there to resolve conflicts, or watch for drug dealers or gangs. The idea that police are needed in a public school is ridiculous. I love where my grandchildren go to school in the suburbs. Clean, quiet, good teachers...and no police.
To those of you out there who defend Detroit public schools, good luck and God bless...but I would never in a million years want one of my loved ones to attend. |