 
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 186
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 10:56 am: |    |
Detroitteacher-
I certainly applaud your efforts and the description of your situation almost brings me to tears. What a huge shame that education in Detroit is in such a sad state of affairs. It is only due to dedicated teachers like you that these kids are being taught anything. Your effort is incredible.
That being said, it sounds like you could use some help, and pretty quickly. If you think that it would help, I would be more than happy to spend one or two nights a week (up to 4 hours a night) to help you out with perhaps grading papers or anything that you could think of that would help you focus more directly on the kids. I have taught at a Community College level, and perhaps I could help with maybe mentoring or something else along those lines? I am currently 30 credit hours away from a Mechanical Engineering degree, so I am pretty fluent with higher level math, physics and chemistry. Maybe that would help out some? Their education is certainly worth that expenditure of time on my part. I probably waste that much time on television a week alone, anyway!!
I believe the only way to get past the Detroit Public School system's issues is to just step-up and get this done. It's obvious that the administration is severely broken, and neither these kids-nor Detroitteacher- are responsible for the deplorable state that the system has fallen into.
All of us have skills that these kids could use. Anyone else got any good suggestions? |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 1151
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 11:46 am: | |
Plym: While I appreciate your offer, I really like to grade papers myself. This is the only way I know how to assess kids so that I can reteach what I need to reteach and to know if they are improving their skills. I don't teach sciences or math, so your expertise probably won't be of much help to my particular classes. Also, due to privacy concerns, I can't have anyone knowing the names of my students (and if they want a grade, they have to put their name on their paper).
We do have community outreach programs and appreciate any help that the community can offer. Our LSCO meets the 3rd Thursday of each month at 5pm. We have very few in attendance and I am sure they could use the help. We welcome anyone who has an interest in helping our kids. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3962
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 11:57 am: | |
Where might one find DPS attendance statistics for high school? The majority of their dropouts must be probably in the 9th grade and higher.
One statistic I would be most interested in is the number of kids at the start of the school year and the numbers at the end. And not peak enrollment figures, but actual attendance figures.
If the dropout rate at DPS is as high as most say, then the attendance figures must surely show a steady decline in attendance as the school year drones on. It's only understandable that the pupil/teacher ratio be higher at the start of the school year. I wonder just how low the attendance is after a few weeks or months.
My guess that, except for the very few magnet schools, the dropout rate would be steadily increasing throughout the year--and the classroom attendance would steadily decline also.
According to DT, some 35-40% are already avoiding going to school, and classes barely started. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 1152
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 1:14 pm: | |
I never said kids were avoiding school or skipping. I said that many don't come to class for one reason or another. There are lines at counselor's offices because students need a schedule or need classes adjusted to give them a full schedule, some want to change classes for whatever reason. Many kids have already changed classes but no one has changed it on the computer yet so they still show up on my roster. There are many reasons why kids aren't attending classes. Some have already transferred schools because of overcrowding, only to find that their new school is overcrowded. We haven't even had a chance to find out where these kids are yet. We are overloaded more this year than ever before. DPS does NOT have an adequate system in place to make schedules, transfer kids from one school to the next, find truant kids, or register and enroll kids. At one time, I have had 85 (on average) register for each of my classes. Until I am told otherwise, I am to assume that those kids are still in my classes. I'd be happy to call homes to find out where the absent kids are but I don't have access to a phone at work and am not calling them from MY home.
Many students haven't even come to school yet because they don't know which school to attend (the transfer of schools was not done efficiently and no one downtown can provide an answer as to why these kids are missing). We haven't hit our peak numbers yet because we are still enrolling kids. |
Master_debator2
Member
Username: Master_debator2
Post Number: 41
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:34 pm: | |
Detroitteacher, I can help you out with your situation. I have become a pretty active activist. If you want I can have a large ammount of people (1400+) send emails to the Union rep to demand that something be done. Would you want me to do this? |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 1153
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 8:00 pm: | |
It's pointless...the Union knows of the situation. |
Yelloweyes
Member
Username: Yelloweyes
Post Number: 188
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 8:37 pm: | |
Oversized classes are rampant throughout the district, but paychecks are flowing, therefore the leaders of the Union would never think of leading a strike.
I wonder If this would be tolerated in Grosse Pointe, Birmingham, Bloomfield Hills, etc, etc...
The beauty of our Nations education system. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 1154
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 9:19 pm: | |
The paychecks that are flowing are never right. Constant problems and issues with everything. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 1155
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 9:21 pm: | |
LY: Don't expect ANY data coming from the district to be accurate or up to date. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3965
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 9:48 pm: | |
Grosse Pointe doesn't have any history with massive dropouts as does DPS. It doesn't make sense to have a moderate to low pupil/teacher ratio at DPS at the start of the school year if only a small number of students stick it out throughout the year or only attend classes whenever they feel like it.
My high school graduating class in 1961 in a Milwaukee suburb only had one person out of about 320 seniors not graduate on time, and that one guy was my neighbor across the street who was a fraction of a credit short because of missed phy ed--which he made up during the summer. Even the "boomer" who blow off his hand with a pipe bomb graduated on time, although he missed a lot of classes at first. I strongly doubt that DPS (or even GP) has near 100% graduation rates. |
Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100
Post Number: 1486
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 10:13 pm: | |
Grosse Pointe's graduation rate (in 4 years) in 2006 was 94.55%. The dropout rate was 1.38%.
Detroit's graduation rate was 21.7%.
Truly, this is not a fair comparison. I'm just putting up the numbers to show LY what they are. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3966
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 10:53 pm: | |
The central point is that DPS has to tolerate larger class sizes at the beginning of the school year and wait a bit until the inevitable dropping out occurs--like clockwork, I reckon.
There's also a "count day" period sometime later in the school year in order to account for this, isn't there?
BTW, is DPS bribing the kids again this year with iPod lotteries and such in order to attract some of those dropouts--for the money, of course, and then wave bye-bye after they leave soon thereafter? |
Renfirst
Member
Username: Renfirst
Post Number: 46
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 11:08 pm: | |
Visited the parents and asked my mom (11th and 12th grade chem teacher at Cody H.S.) about large class sizes. She said she had 65 in her chem class first day of school but it's been adjusted to 34 ... she said that usually within a week or two they adjust and move students around to get the sizes smaller.
(Message edited by renfirst on September 16, 2007) |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 1156
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 6:49 am: | |
Classes do level out as kids are moved. This SHOULD take place the first week of school, but so far, it hasn't (at least in most classes). We simply have nowhere to move the kids. We don't have enough teachers to service the number of kids we have. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 1157
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 6:39 am: | |
Update: We are supposed to be getting a new teacher in my dept today. We'll see what happens. We need more than one but we'll take what we can get. |
Penelopetheduck
Member
Username: Penelopetheduck
Post Number: 14
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 2:08 pm: | |
I run an after school program at Western, Detroit Technology, Osborn and the Roeper School in Birmingham.
I've noticed at Western a huuuuge influx of kids from Murray-Wright, despite the school board's insistence that there would actually be no more students at Western this year than last year. I guess that were operating on the assumption that Western would loose hundreds of students a year and didn't notice that it's located in a are of the city with a growing population.
One of the hardest things about this year, besides the gang issues with kids from rival neighborhoods going to school together is that Western and Murray-Wright were worlds apart in the quality of education, support of the administration and concern for the students. The new transfers are totally baffled by the high expectations and enforced discipline that Western has. It makes me really sad, because these kids deserve much better than the education they were getting at Murray-Wright.
My teachers at Western have upwards of 45 kids in each class still, but it's not so bad as 85.
Detroit Technology seems to have a lot more students too but has utterly reasonable class sizes: 20-30 kids in each class. But y'know, they still don't have walls which makes teaching really complicated. A D-Tech teacher shoved one of my students last week because he didn't finish with his locker fast enough. I'm really angry about this, like furious. I talked with him (the student) a few days later, after I had calmed down some, and we figured out some productive solutions and got him transferred out of her class.
This overcrowding seems to be really stressing teachers and students out. |
Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez
Post Number: 408
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 2:34 pm: | |
Pics? |
Chuckjav
Member
Username: Chuckjav
Post Number: 51
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 3:03 pm: | |
I would suspect that the gang-related issues arising from the closure of Murray-Wright, Mackenzie, and Redford will only worsen.
Bottom-Line is that DPS was interested in cutting costs; all the problems associated with massive cuts and school closings be-damned.
The School Board knew that you can't just throw unfamiliar teenagers together...and end up with some Hollywood sit-com resolution...DPS & Board simply do not care.
A more logical solution would be the gradual inclusion of neighboring middle-school students into the underpopulated high schools (Murray-Wright, Mackenzie, and Redford).
Then bring neighboring elementary school students into the affected middle-schools; eventually resulting in the closure of elementary schools (if need be).
PS I am currently available for the position of Superintendent; all that I require is a starting salary of $75,000 - I will continue to drive my 1996 Saturn...thank-you very much.
PPS I am totally serious |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 1158
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 6:43 am: | |
Still no relief on my class size but the new teacher has a schedule. We haven't had the gang problems that were anticipated but the kids are acting wild and crazy. The influx of kids and overcrowding is taking its toll on teachers and kids, alike. No one had any forethought as to the numbers of kids that would be coming this fall and no extra classes were created to accommodate them. No planning, no forethought...status quo for DPS. |
Chuckjav
Member
Username: Chuckjav
Post Number: 58
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 10:03 am: | |
Detroitteacher....you had mentioned the sale of Cooley Cardinal car flags; if I sent a check & letter of interest to the sponsoring teacher - might that get the job done?
If so, can you give me a name & room number?
PS I scored an awesome & huge 1950s era Mackenzie High School wool pennant on eBay yesterday!
Go Stags....Go Cardinals...GO Detroit! |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 1160
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 10:14 pm: | |
If you email me your contact info, I'll pass it along to the teacher. Mail getting to the right folks isn't happening right now, with the chaos going on...it would probably be better if he talked to you directly so he can tell you how to snag one of these great flags! Please email me at tmcooleyweb at aol dot com if you are interested in a flag. Include a phone number (both day and evening) and your name. |
Chuckjav
Member
Username: Chuckjav
Post Number: 74
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 10:35 pm: | |
Thanks Detroitteacher.....will-do. |
Themax
Member
Username: Themax
Post Number: 843
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 12:03 pm: | |
Detroit Teacher: Never mind the union, does the fire marshall know about the number of students in your class? |
Postbop
Member
Username: Postbop
Post Number: 8
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 3:28 am: | |
Detroitteacher:
Have you applied to other high schools for work?
In DPS, do they make is mandatory for you to pursue your Master's Degree? I know it's financially very advantageous for public school teachers. |
Eec
Member
Username: Eec
Post Number: 159
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 4:21 pm: | |
I was under the impression that the mandatory schooling thing was state law rather than any particular district's policy, and that it isn't really "very advantageous" for public school teachers, unless by "very advantageous" you mean the fact that they'll lose their jobs and not get paid anything at all if they don't. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 1161
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 7:40 pm: | |
In order to keep one's certification current, one must earn a certain amount of credits (this is only for teachers who began teaching after 1992, I believe). A Master's degree is NOT required but the credits to keep the certification are a requirement by the state.
I have not applied at other schools. I love my kids and wouldn't give them up for the world. It's not their fault that the school district has its head up its collective arse. I deal with all the red tape and politics for the kids...I have been recruited by other districts (even out of state) but I can't leave the little buggers. I said a long time ago, "well, after this class graduates I'll move along". Well, I keep having "this graduating class" and haven't left yet.
My pay increase for a Master's Degree is NOTHING compared to the tuition I've paid. Come to think of it, they still aren't paying me for my Master's level degree. It's been a year since I've taken the paperwork down there...guess the answer is no to the "advantageous" comment since I have not gotten a pay increase yet (and doubt I ever will). |
Bratt
Member
Username: Bratt
Post Number: 653
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 8:33 pm: | |
I went over to tutor my cousin in Spanish tonight. I asked where her book was, and she said they didn't give them books. What the hell? It's almost October?
Somebody help our kids....please!
Kwame....Jennifer....George... |
Cris
Member
Username: Cris
Post Number: 474
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 8:35 pm: | |
Detroitteacher, I used to say the same thing years ago (that I would never leave my extremely underpaid teaching position at a school in Detroit... despite all the BS... because I loved the kids). But eventually I did, and I have to say the difference is shocking. There are kids you can fall in love with at any school, and now I feel like I would never leave this one. But in this case I'm also treated with respect by administration, have decent class sizes, materials to work with, paychecks that come on time, parents that are involved. It's crazy.
My point is just that, as a teacher, you deserve to be treated a certain way and be given appropriate working conditions. You've got bills to pay too, and I don't think you have kids of your own yet but someday you will and you will probably want to have some time to spend with them as well.
One day the time will be right, and you'll be sad about leaving but once you do it you'll be glad you did. Until DPS gets its act together, they are just exploiting dedicated teachers like you. Maybe they will get it together and people like you will stay for more than just the love, but right now I doubt it. |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 905
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 9:58 pm: | |
Quality of family life and structure within the home is directly responsible for the difference in graduation numbers for GP and Detroit.
Even the Detroit School Board cannot control the low quality of family life within Detroit. My guess is that's why the Board cannot even begin to figure out what the frick to do.
I'd be throwing my hands up, too. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 1162
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 5:32 am: | |
In response to the books not being distributed...we simply don't have enough of them to give to each student. Also, kids are coming into classes and leaving classes every day. We couldn't possibly keep track of that many books (no one tells us when a student drops our class) until classes are leveled. I am not making excuses, just reporting what is reality. That doesn't make it right, by any means. We simply need a better management system in DPS to keep track of kids, books, and scheduling. The system they use now is antiquated, at best. Summer school grades have not even been posted to the students' transcripts (just to give you an idea). I'd love to be able to distribute books, but that decision comes from administration and they have not given us the green light to do so.
Parents need to become involved and get their undies in a bunch over books, class size, lack of programs, quality of teachers, and a host of other problems. We only see parents when their child has had their cell phone taken, comes in out of "uniform" and is suspended, or the child got into a fight and the parents are there to defend the child (physically). We need more parental involvement with regard to the quality of education their child deserves. |
Baltgar
Member
Username: Baltgar
Post Number: 78
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 11:08 am: | |
What about the fire marshall question? Is this a relevant concern? |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 4110
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 11:16 am: | |
Call off the fire marshalls. They won't be needed.
I'll wager that most "overcrowding" issues will evaporate after the "Count Day" week and DPS gets their funds for the school year for educating fewer and fewer students throughout the year as many of those earlier "students" drop out.
One thing that must be understood is that in order to graduate as few seniors as DPS does (year after year after year, ad nauseum), there MUST be an extraordinarily high drop-out rate. That's a brain-dead certainty. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 1164
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 6:13 pm: | |
It's after count day and there are STILL kids enrolling in all of my classes!
Our parent liason is on the fire marshall issue. |
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