 
Margaret
Member
Username: Margaret
Post Number: 184
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 11:44 am: |    |
thanks so much, Boynamedsue! is your house on Middlesex? in that area below Jefferson? sounds like it is...wow! so my sister was right! I'll be damned, LOL. I will have to make a point of telling her. thanks again, you guys!
just me, hiding out in a secret room behind a mysterious private bar, LOL... |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 10558
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 11:49 am: | |
I found a secret panic room in a beachfront townhouse purchased from Suzanne Summers by one of my best client/friends just south of Venice Beach in LA...I think it is Manhattan Beach?!
At least ten by ten, but NO running water or bathroom facilities, even though the Master Bathroom was on the other side of the wall.
It really isn't that tough to do, if you study the lay of the house...but most of the old mansions I've worked in over in the Pointes waste SO much internal space with trapped dead air that there are dozens of potential hiding spots in most of 'em! |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 822
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 2:56 pm: | |
Put the candle back |
Boynamedsue
Member
Username: Boynamedsue
Post Number: 20
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 3:07 pm: | |
No, my house is on Pemberton, not far from Middlesex though. What is interesting though, and I could never figure out why, is that the Mafia families that were still living in GPP in the 90's always owned a house on the corner of their block. I don't know why. Someone also mentioned a tunnel. I believe that was on Middlesex. The tunnel led from the two corner houses at Middlesex and Avondale through the basements. Again, thouse were corner houses. I think the tunnel was discovered after the sewer systems were replaced. |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 190
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 3:56 pm: | |
I grew up on Middlesex. My parents moved there in the early 80's. I remember the article posted above, or at least a similar one. IIRC, it even had a map of Middlesex/Westchester/Windmill Pointe area with the locations of homes of the various alleged mobsters. Surprised no one does tours.
Couple of stories that were always going around...
1. The rumored tunnel under the street was real. One entrance was from the tree stump shaped BBQ grill in a backyard of the house on the corner of Middlesex and Avondale. The tunnel ran across the street to the basement of the house there. That was the Giacalone house I believe (big pillars, circular drive). It did not provide access to the sewers or any other homes as depicted in The Virgin Suicides.
While I was living on Middlesex, sort of ironically, the tree stump house was owned by husband and wife judges (Hathaway's I think).
2. Our house was owned by a doctor and his wife. They lived there since the 1930s. Allegedly this doctor was "on call" for various late night...shall we say "emergencies" his neighbors might have. One neighbor went so far as to tell us that the good Doctor would treat gunshot wounds in the kitchen. True or not, being about 12 when I heard this, I thought it was the coolest thing ever.
3. Every three or four years, the police, I assume the Feds were involved, would put on a big show of "raiding" one of the alleged mobster's homes. Middlesex is a boulevard street. I remember one time police cars coming up both sides of the boulevard from both directions to raid Jack Tocco's house. that was probably '90 or '91.
4. There was also funny story about a kid getting locked behind a wall when he stumbled upon an unknown secret panel in one of the former "mob" houses. It wasn't a passageway, but more like secret storage area. Apparently the family had to rip into some really nice wood paneling in the den to get their kid out because no one could figure out how to open the door/panel. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5439
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 5:00 pm: | |
LMAO at Kenp.... Young Frankenstein (hidden room)... |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 237
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 12:08 am: | |
people have to live somewhere boy sue
tunnel was from corrado to zerrili house?
what about the tunnel from lakeshore to lk st clair? in gpf, |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 960
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 12:40 am: | |
Higgs, boynamedsue, anyone else:
What was it like to live in a mansion? Does it suck to forget something in your bedroom and have to get it when you are on the other side of the house? Big homes like those in the Pointes fascinate me. |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 191
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 8:35 am: | |
Our Middlesex house was a far cry from a mansion, so I can't help you out there Kathy. It was about 2500-3000 sqft. Maybe on the large side for the time when it was built I guess, but I don't know if it would even qualify for McMansion status today. What gets lost in the Grosse Pointe stereotype is that there is a wide variety of house size, style, and general wealth of the residents. |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 961
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 10:00 am: | |
Thanks Higgs.
Your point about home size and wealth of the citizens of GP isn't lost on me. We lived on Wayburn in a 4-family flat until I was 9 (three kids 2 parents, two small bedrooms one bath). We then moved 'up' to Lakepointe near Mulier's to a three bedroom one bath house.
Living within such a monetarily diverse city didn't phase me until I was in GPS; then the major differences started becoming painfully apparent to me.
Pop pom parties on Lakeshore, hanging out with some kid in his third story room in a HUGE house,(parents had NO idea what we were doing up there, lol!). Of course, I was so 'cool' that I never acted like I thought it was neat, but boy, was I jealous!  |
Boynamedsue
Member
Username: Boynamedsue
Post Number: 21
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 1:19 pm: | |
Kathinozarks, the house on pemberton is far from a mansion. Go down to windmill point - those are mansions. I think my house is around 2500 sq feet which is about the norm around here. I had a friend in HS however that had a home in GPF which was 13,000 sq feet. That was a mansion! And i'm sure it did suck when he forgot something in his bedroom and had to get it when he was on the otherside of the house. |
Terridarlin
Member
Username: Terridarlin
Post Number: 30
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 3:35 pm: | |
Kathyinozarks:
"What was it like to live in a mansion? Does it suck to forget something in your bedroom and have to get it when you are on the other side of the house? Big homes like those in the Pointes fascinate me."
I was lucky to live in 2 of them, 281 University Place and 251 Lincoln Rd, built in the 1920's each about 10,000 sq ft. (I guess that qualifies as a mansion) the best part about it wasn't necessarily the size, but the quality of the construction. I have wonderful memories of Christmas and entertaining large groups of family and friends. We didn't use half of the rooms, most of the time my family of 4 would congregate in the smallest room in the house. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 241
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 9:20 pm: | |
howdy neighbor |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 963
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 9:35 pm: | |
Hey Terri,
So these homes were yours and not your parents? I know those streets pretty well for their huge mansions. I think that some of the most beautiful, awesome homes in GP are on those streets.
When you say that you didn't use half the rooms do you mean that you didn't even have furniture in them? Or did you just shut the doors and close off the air ducts?
I want to ask you some more questions about living in a mansion in my next post. Is that ok with you? |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3730
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 9:39 pm: | |
Good points, everyone, about the economic diversity of Grosse Pointe, especially the southern three cities. The variety of housing, availibility of rentals, and wide range of land values from the Detroit borders to the lake shore ensure this diversity to this day. Creating this is virtually impossible in the present day, where residential areas are built as housing pods with standardized products built for people with certain incomes. I.e. homes of 150-250k in one pod, and 250-350k in another non-connected pod, and so on. Early suburbia had all the positive attributes of a traditional urban environment. |
Terridarlin
Member
Username: Terridarlin
Post Number: 31
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 7:51 am: | |
Kathinozarks,
"So these homes were yours and not your parents?
When you say that you didn't use half the rooms do you mean that you didn't even have furniture in them? Or did you just shut the doors and close off the air ducts?"
I lived with my parents. All the rooms were furnished and open. As a family, we didn't live in every room everyday, so many rooms didn't get used very often.
I was in Michigan recently, and happy to see both houses are still there and looking great. Please ask any questions you like.
Kath, did you live in GP? I guess we're two southern girls now!
Lefty2 where do you live? |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 248
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 7:38 pm: | |
lets just say, i could hop a fence through the smith's or robinson's yard and go to the martinelli party at graduation. |
Terridarlin
Member
Username: Terridarlin
Post Number: 32
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 8:30 pm: | |
Lefty2
"lets just say, i could hop a fence through the smith's or robinson's yard and go to the martinelli party at graduation"
so that would put you on Rivard. Rhonda Martinelli? |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 249
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 9:10 pm: | |
yes, (not a martinelli) so you did live on university. you probably know an older bro/sis of mine, without getting specific.
(Message edited by lefty2 on October 03, 2007) |
Terridarlin
Member
Username: Terridarlin
Post Number: 33
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 9:32 pm: | |
lefty2,
Do you still live in GP? If you feel like it, email me at terri.benton@gmail.com |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 966
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 1:10 am: | |
Terri,
I grew up on Wayburn and Lakepointe, graduated South in '79.
So, here are my questions:
Did you have a feeling when you were living in these homes that you were in some way above other people? (And I don't mean that in an accusatorial manner.) Maybe a better way to put it is, did you feel insulated from the troubles of the world?
Would you hang out with kids who lived in the 'cotton patch' area of the Park?
And if you did, did your parents approve more of your friendships with people of your own socio-economic background?
Did you realize how wealthy your family must have been?
Did you ever have the experience of people treating you differently when they found out where you lived?
Less seriously:
Were you awestruck with the size of your home? I thought our hallway in the four family flat on Wayburn was looooong!
Did your bedroom have it's own bathroom? Old, cool ceramic tile?
Did you have household help with the cleaning of all those rooms? So many end tables to dust and floors to vacuum/sweep.
Did you play a lot of hide and seek. I think it would be wicked fun in 10,000 sq. feet.
That's all for now. These questions seem stupid to probably everyone but me so, sorry to anyone who rolls their eyes and says, "oh, brother!"
I just think that you were very fortunate (as you do too) to have lived in these mansions. Not many people get the chance. Thanks again for accepting my questions. |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 206
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 2:36 am: | |
Not relevent, but im going to go on anyway...
Never lived quite that lavishly. But I did grow up in a 2800 square foot house in the Troy/Birmingham area. I tended to hang out with the kids who lived in old, smaller bungalows. I never felt "above" anyone, even though I had a nice, large home. You know why? My parents raised me a certain way. They never tried to compete with everyone or pushed us to compete. In my early-20's I bought a little house in Hazel Park-nothing like the area I grew up in. I feel fortunate because I've been both places- the upscale and rich, and the lower-income, working-class communities.I feel im more adaptable as a result.
I don't think it's where you live....it's how you think.And how you were brought up. |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 967
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 9:21 am: | |
Thanks for your addition, it's great! |
Terridarlin
Member
Username: Terridarlin
Post Number: 34
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 10:51 am: | |
Kathinozarks,
A little back-story: I started life in the back room of my father's tiny, tiny furniture store, he drove a cab at night to make ends meet. Then to a duplex and then to Chandler Park Drive. I'm a 2nd generation American whose families came from Germany/England, no blue blood.
I did feel insulated from the troubles of the world.
I never felt better than anyone else, at times I felt embarrassed. A short time after we moved to Grosse Pointe I still attended a Lutheran School in Detroit. The first time the bus dropped me off in front of our new house, the entire bus shifted to the house side and all of the kids we're yelling "is that your house."
My mother insisted I make friends with many different people. I kept many of my friends from the old neighborhood, and still keep in touch with a few to this day.
Yes, people do treat you differently. Yes, it is nice.
Yes I was "awestruck" with the size. Now it's not unusual for homes to be built that size, but then it was special.
Yes, I had my own bathroom. It was in original condition, with towel heaters. My mother and dad each had their own bedroom/bath, and my dad had a needle shower that was amazing. They each had working fireplaces, and it was wonderful in the winter. We had 2 curving staircases that went to the 2nd floor with a bridge room that we used as a guest room. My brother and I had a music room between our bedrooms. The downstairs had 4 large Georgian columns in the foyer and a black and white floor. The living room and library were covered in (think they call it)linen fold paneling. The sconces and chandeliers were done in the 1920's and silver. There were 3 fireplaces on the ground floor, dining room, living room and library. We ran out of names for rooms, so they became blue room, gold room etc. Not an original idea, but it worked. We had a walk-in cedar closet in the basement with large wine cellar. The garage was 3-4 car with a carriage house apartment upstairs.
We had a housekeeper that came every week. We had a cook, but it was short-lived because he drank more than he cooked.
We had a wonderful time. It has ruined me for all other real estate. But I took away a strong work ethic, and the true belief that anything is possible. I'm very proud of my parents accomplishments.
Hope we haven't bored too many people. Thanks for your questions. I bet you knew my brother at South. If you feel like emailing it's terri.benton@gmail.com |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 968
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 4:52 pm: | |
Terri, I tried to email you and I got an error screen. Did my email go through? |
Terridarlin
Member
Username: Terridarlin
Post Number: 35
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 5:09 pm: | |
No nothing in my Inbox. I checked the address and it's correct. The only thing I can figure is technical problems with GMail.
Did you physically type the address or just click on the link? |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 969
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 11:51 pm: | |
Sent it. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 262
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 10:56 pm: | |
what was REALLY SCARY was all the Halloween items in the front lawns of all those houses as a kid. |
Saders
Member
Username: Saders
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 1:19 pm: | |
My friend lives in the house on middlesex across the street from the "tree trunk bbq" house, on the corner of avondale. There is a tunnel that runs under the street between the 2 houses, the entrance has been sealed up long ago but is behind the bar in the basement. There is some "unaccounted" for empty spaces in the house as well, but they had yet to unlock their secrets. Those mafia houses were famous for hollowed out banisters to hide guns as well as loose boards on staircases. |
Verifiable
Member
Username: Verifiable
Post Number: 70
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 4:14 pm: | |
Terridarlin, it appears that both of your fabulous homes are still standing and a great 3-D view is available on maps.live.com (http://maps.live.com/?v=2&cid= 6A9CE98C8240620F!589&encType=1) |
Terridarlin
Member
Username: Terridarlin
Post Number: 36
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 9:58 am: | |
Verifiable: Thanks for the link, but I must have gotten to it too late, it was no longer available. |
Terridarlin
Member
Username: Terridarlin
Post Number: 37
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 10:11 am: | |
Figured it out. Great aerial views, Thanks. |
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