 
Yooper
Member
Username: Yooper
Post Number: 86
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 2:03 pm: |    |
How about a World's Fair!? |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 556
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 2:33 pm: | |
yeah, robots are the japanese strongsuit. i love robots.
and there are some serious non-tourist related ideas in here:
-pro/con right to work
-legalize gay marriage
-oil refinery/ship building |
Rb336
Member
Username: Rb336
Post Number: 2525
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 2:37 pm: | |
flip the state upside down into the gulf of mexico. not only would we bring in tourist bucks with our far superior sand, the size of our land mass might interrupt the development of hurricanes... |
Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner
Post Number: 409
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 2:39 pm: | |
Most of you know by reading my past posts, I very much advocate a PR department for detroit. On the other hand, being in TN, I see LOTS of ads for Michigan. They are touting the Tech industry. So it looks like Michigan is at least trying to lure business and thats great. Still hear nothing from detroit though. You would think the city would be begging for tourists for the new casinos. Havent heard anything out of the D yet though. |
Revolutionary
Member
Username: Revolutionary
Post Number: 134
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 3:36 pm: | |
The suburban Detroit-haters aren't helping much. We could use a state-wide attitude adjustment toward the health and vitality of our State's largest city.
Where Detroit goes, Michigan follows. |
Alan55
Member
Username: Alan55
Post Number: 578
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 3:46 pm: | |
"tourist trap", Dan?
There are a couple of cities that are doing pretty well for themselves by being "tourist traps": - New York City; also, the fastest growing city in the country, Las Vegas.
And the one you live in, D.C.
- Or maybe you would prefer our tourist dollars to leave the country entirely and create jobs elsewhere, to places like Toronto. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3347
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 3:59 pm: | |
^Detroit's problems are systematic and more complex than a lack of tourist attractions. There isn't a single tourist attraction (or combination thereof) that will fix things in their current state.
For those who don't live inside a television set, New York is first and foremost a center of banking, fashion, and publishing. DC is a center of government and the military-industrial complex. Vegas is predicated on the mob-backed casino industry, and I wouldn't aspire to be like Vegas unless you want a city consisting primarily of high school dropouts, retirees, and strippers. "Fastest-growing" doesn't mean shit when you're trying to build a sustainable metropolis.
Trying to make Detroit into another Tombstone, AZ or Branson, MO is disingenuous. You're willing to put how much effort into this bullshit that would be a drop in the bucket in the regional economy, but when it comes to salvaging the auto industry and manufacturing base (you know, "jobs"), all people do is lament that it's disappearing. Ever hear of a self-fulfilling prophecy?
These defeatist attitudes are what's preventing Detroit from going anywhere. Chase the tourists all you want--hotel clerks and waiters aren't going to save Detroit.
And what does it say about your contempt for others who live in the region if you discount their needs and quality of life in order to make a quick buck off a busload of blue hairs instead?
Fuck--just build a giant God damned Ferris wheel in the middle of downtown Detroit, charge for tickets, and be done with it. |
Jiminnm
Member
Username: Jiminnm
Post Number: 1439
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 5:25 pm: | |
"my point it is NYC fills their budget with federal money if there is a gap."
Actually det313, I think they do it thru taxes. New York City has a 4% sales tax (on top of the state's) and income taxes of about 3%. Also, their property tax rates are very high. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 105
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 6:28 pm: | |
Danindc
You like sucking on lemons everyday or just on Tuesdays?
Your diatribe, while interesting, certainly doesn't propose any new ideas; and lord knows we need some new ideas.
Besides laying your Imperial Judgement on all you read, why don't you spend a moment and propose something yourself?
Otherwise, your bloviated, bombast bites the big bone. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3350
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 6:40 pm: | |
No, proposing more-of-the-same gimmicky bullshit to "attract tourists and outsiders" is nothing new. To wit: stadiums, casinos, theatres, festivals, Big Events, convention centers, etc.
I, and many others on these boards, have laid out in no uncertain terms several times over what Detroit needs in order to be economically competitive, let alone sustainable. We can't force elected leaders to craft policy that makes sense. Someone with 105 posts should really think about reading through archived threads before he makes such comments. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 106
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 7:05 pm: | |
Oh, so having more posts somehow makes you more knowledgeable about all things Detroit? Well, that certainly is open minded of you, and obviously allows you to spew ill-informed edicts. It is also quite welcoming of you.
Now, I might be wrong, but it seems the big events have been quite good for the city. The Superbowl didn't hurt us at all. I might be wrong, but the Foxtown district certainly seems to have done quite well for itself. A clogged Harmony Park on Saturday seemed to me rather nice. You could disagree, but the cafe and bar owners down there, might have a different opinion.
You seem to be calling for some massive influx of a great big "something". Ain't gonna happen. The change in Detroit is going to happen slowly, in small steps, a bite at a time, and all your arm waving and dismissive tone isn't doing any good.
I take umbrage at your demand that I search through every one of your 3000 plus posts to find your positive contributions. It is incumbant on you to provide the links. Moreover, to wrap yourself into a cocoon of "I know more than you" is laughable in the extreme.
That big bone's getting bigger. |
Titancub
Member
Username: Titancub
Post Number: 81
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 7:45 pm: | |
Sorry Dan, lighten up a bit eh? If you don't like the topic move along but don't sit and berate and belittle those contributing to it.
As for some of the ideas...
- green technologies is a HUGE up and coming area that would be great for Michigan to tap into
- foster small business and start up climate. rather then 'import' into the state our next economic engine it could be homegrown
- ship building: not deep enough waters in MI as well as the seaway to the Atlantic to build the big ships mentioned that the Koreans are building
- Harnessing tidal power has so far proven to be difficult and not cost competitive. While not a bad idea, the power it would generate wouldn't register in the power stack. However doing a project like that could send a great signal about the innovativeness of Michigan
- In chicago recently and one of the tourist red double deck buses I saw was completely enveloped in a 'Visit Michigan' ad, it was great placement |
Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 404
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 8:37 pm: | |
We need to invest in our cities more and DISinvest in the suburbs. Allow the market to respond to suburban development fine, but let's quit subsidizing it as if we DEMAND no farm land.
Completely flip the design of subsidizations in this country. Stop building massive infrastructure for fewer and fewer folks while neglecting rotting infrastructure left for poorer and poorer people.
The point is that we all end up paying the total price and the burden grows exponentially. People are too shortsighted to realize that and can only see the world not beyond their garage doors...which is why the state is closing its doors on the 1st. Nobody should have to pay for our 50 years of trashing this state because it's not my fault nor is it yours. Taking a collective accountability does not appear to be an option. But that is what I am proposing. However, I understand one of the parties would point and cry "SOCIALIST" if that ever happened and I'd be stoned to death. If that meant keeping Michigan open and growing, then so be it. I'll take one for the team.  |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3351
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:10 pm: | |
Gnome, I'm not saying I necessarily know more or less than you. I'm saying that I've been on this forum for damn near ten years, and for you to say that I've never contributed a single positive idea in that time is patently absurd.
Instead of looking for a gimmick, look at other cities that *have* successfully turned things around. New York and Boston--formerly huge manufacturing centers themselves--might not be bad places to start. Unfortunately, Michiganders have the despicable habit of living inside their television sets, i.e. NOT reality, and fear comparisons to other places.
And as positive as the changes in Foxtown and Harmonie Park may have been over the past 15 or 20 years--it's an area of a couple city blocks. You can't sustain a region or state, let alone a city, on a couple city blocks of entertainment.
quote:- Harnessing tidal power has so far proven to be difficult and not cost competitive. While not a bad idea, the power it would generate wouldn't register in the power stack. However doing a project like that could send a great signal about the innovativeness of Michigan
Only problem with that? Michigan doesn't have tides.
I'm not berating and belittling. I'm challenging you folks to think beyond gimmicks and start looking at what WORKS in the city, and what NEEDS TO WORK in order to make the metropolis functional. What I'm seeing on this thread is plans for a Thanksgiving feast when you can barely cook mac-and-cheese. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 107
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:12 pm: | |
DANINDC
You issue statements like they are facts. You misrepresent what other people write; you label any proposal as a gimmick and unworkable; you belittle and berate and on top of it all you wrap yourself in the false mantle of challenging your fellow bloggers to think harder.
I never said you have "never contributed a single positive idea..." I said,"why don't you spend a moment and contribute something yourself."
Still waiting. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3352
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:55 am: | |
Brass tacks, Gnome. When Antoine de la Mothe Cadillac arrived on the far side of the Strait, what kind of assessment do you think he made? Most likely, he decided what the most basic needs of his outpost were, prioritized, and then set about addressing them. In the early 18th century, this meant fortifications and a Roman Catholic parish; otherwise, how could he expect settlers to establish a fur trading post? I can assure you the first settlers didn't begin their new civilization by celebrating Carnaval.
Today is no different. We have people worried about Super Bowls and casinos and tourist attractions, and basically everything that is extraneous and superficial to a functional, healthy metropolis. What the people of Detroit and Michigan need are JOBS, TRANSPORTATION, and EDUCATION. THAT, my friend, is a FACT. It wouldn't hurt to clean the physical landscape a bit as well.
In plain English--if Detroit doesn't work for Detroiters (and by corollorary, if Michigan doesn't work for Michiganders), then it doesn't work for anyone--no matter how many Super Bowls or Dream Cruises or Stanley Cups.
Cut out the superficial crap and get back to re-establishing the rudiments of the city. If that's too difficult a concept, I'd strongly suggest you either travel and see how things are done elsewhere, or simply not concern yourself with the business of reconstruction urban society. Detroit has wasted too much time and money on bullshit "solutions" while other cities moved forward long ago. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 796
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 1:03 am: | |
Geez. This is becoming the ad hominem attack thread. Fuck all of you, OK? The title is "Ideas for Revitalizing Michigan". Contribute to that idea, or shut the fuck up.
I know this won't go anywhere, but it's worth a try anyhow. First of all, let's separate "metro Detroit" and the other urban regions (Grand Rapids, Flint, the tri cities) from "touristy outstate Michigan". Clearly, the outstate non-urban places can do a great deal with tourism, and have.
Now: what do we do with the urbanized areas? Anyone have any positive ideas? Attacking me or Dan or Gnome or Rocket or Titan is not an "idea". Here's a starter question: what types of businesses do we want to attract? Why would they come here? What do we have to offer?
Get back to basics. This has become a bullshit thread. I agree we are lacking some rudimentary things, but we first need to decide what we are trying to accomplish. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3354
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 1:25 am: | |
First and foremost, STOP subsidizing new suburbia at all levels. The State of Michigan is bankrupting itself, and put it into a position where it is fiscally unable to support its metropolitan regions. This means no new freeways, no extensions of the Detroit water system, etc. The farmers and country-dwellers will be at least as happy as the city people, and wouldn't feel so pressured to sell their land to developers.
Second--invest in existing infrastructure. Repair the roads in the urban core. Build commuter rail transit to connect the sprawled-out Detroit region. Repair water and sewer lines. Build schools where kids can walk to them, for Christ's sake (and stop designing high schools that look like prisons).
Third, balance the damned budget, even if it means raising taxes or making tough decisions. Fiscal prudence goes a long way toward making the city an attractive place to live.
And the City of Detroit, in particular, could stand to have a fire sale on all the vacant properties it owns. The City has no business being in real-estate development.
I realize I'm a bit vague here, but it is after 1 AM. With that said, these are the positives that Detroit needs to build upon:
1. Geographic location and proximity to markets
2. Transportation infrastructure (ever notice how the nexus is STILL in the center of Detroit???)
3. Lots of cheap land available for development.
4. A wide-open canvas on which to rebuild and recreate an urban form.
5. Highly skilled manufacturing workforce, as well as business and engineering acumen.
6. A few top-notch universities nearby that generate thousands of new graduates every year
I think a part of the problem is on a personal level too. So many families in Michigan invest so much money in depreciating assets (i.e. they own way too many fricking cars) that the phenomena removes a buttload (that's a technical economic term) of potential investment capital from the local economy. But, that's my opinion.
The other thing that bugs the shit out of me is how Michigan has destroyed its environmental legacy. Do we simply not care that beaches are closed for half the summer, because our tract home and SUV are far more important than fecal coliforms in a public body of water? Does anyone see the irony of being stuck in traffic all Friday afternoon just to get away Up North for a weekend? |
Chuckjav
Member
Username: Chuckjav
Post Number: 85
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 6:08 am: | |
More ideas and revisitation on one from last week - specifically for revitalizing Detroit:
1. A King's Island/Cedar Point type amusement park on the Detroit River front.
2. Homestead farming rights for anyone willing to take up agribusiness upon the thousands of vacant/abandoned lots.
3. Tidal power electric generation plants along the Detroit River to power my "Canal Town" on riverfront.
4. "De-Annexation" of land to Wayne County; three cheers for New Greenfield Township & New Redford.
Take these ideas and run with 'em. Just be decent enough to throw me an originator fee; or take the expensive route of dealing with my legal team
(Message edited by chuckjav on September 26, 2007) |
Titancub
Member
Username: Titancub
Post Number: 84
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 8:34 am: | |
Tidal power is the generic term to harnessing the currents in water. The flow of the river would turn a turbine but as I said the flow isn't strong enough to end up making much electricity.
The smart redevelopment of the metro area. This includes rezoning and reuse to make better use of the land and not just be one mass sprawled mess that we are now. Some suburbia is ok, and planning scholars even say suburbia has its place in the grand scheme. However, presently having suburbia dominate our landscape is a negative. Build up little city centers both in the city, and in the suburbs (as already is the case with Bham, RO, Ferndale, etc). |
Chuckjav
Member
Username: Chuckjav
Post Number: 86
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 9:28 am: | |
Titancub.....I missed your previous post regarding tidal power.
Dang....even with an extraordinarily large paddle-wheel, surface mounted turbine, the current isn't strong enough?
What about staggering several over a half-mile stretch? |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6587
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 9:45 am: | |
Here's a ideal to revitalize Michigan:
1. Either RECALL or not to vote your Michigan Republican controlled state senate by next election year and replace them with a democratic state senate.
2. We as Michiganders have to go out to the global community and tell those international companies to consider bringing their workforce to out great state.
3. Raise property taxes and tax on everything from tickets to cigarettes. That would reduce the deficit. If you don't like it, then just leave.
4. Preserve what's left of our wilderness and our great lakes. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3355
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 9:48 am: | |
Chuckjav, I'm not sure if you've ever actually been to Sandusky, Ohio or not (and I'm not just talking about the amusement park), but it ain't exactly the prettiest town on earth.
I do like the farming idea (please don't confuse small-scale localized sustainable farming with agribusiness). I don't think the available plots of land in Detroit are large enough for traditional farming, per se (think crop rotation). I DO think that community gardens could be a boon for a populace that tends to lack access to fresh produce at reasonable prices.
I've got more ideas, in particular what can and should be done at the local level. Let's let this thread take a ride for a while. |
Alan55
Member
Username: Alan55
Post Number: 584
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:21 am: | |
So Dan, you piss on tourism but think that community gardens are one of the answers to revitalizing Michigan? How many carrots do you plan to sell?
If you're going to shoot other people's ideas down so hard, perhaps you shouldn't propose such ridiculous solutions. |
Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 638
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:23 am: | |
Detroit has been a manufacturing city for a long time. Before there were cars, Detroit was known for its cast iron stoves. When those faded, cars were already here. Detroit gained automotive dominance over several decades, and fought to keep it. Somehow, we seem to not be able to face the global competition, which could very well sound a deathknell for Detroit's automotive industry. So, do we
(1) face up to and enter into global competition and battle our way back to dominance? or
(2) start working on some other industry? or
(3) Both?
Other possible industries, some mentioned here:
Green power, manufacturing the supplies needed, turbines, wind towers and blades, water power designs, and solar panels. Battery packs that will power homes, more, more, and more.
Carbon dioxide cleaners for homeowners and businesses.
Hydrogen power plants for homes.
Bio diesel, and the technology to put it into our cars.
Bio friendly mass transit alternatives.
Come on, I know there are lots more things out there ready to pop! |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1697
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:28 am: | |
4. "De-Annexation" of land to Wayne County; three cheers for New Greenfield Township & New Redford.
The areas that were formerly Greenfield Township and formerly parts of Redford Township have some of the strongest tax bases in the city... |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1698
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:36 am: | |
I think a part of the problem is on a personal level too. So many families in Michigan invest so much money in depreciating assets (i.e. they own way too many fricking cars) that the phenomena removes a buttload (that's a technical economic term) of potential investment capital from the local economy. But, that's my opinion.
Very much in agreement! |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6590
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:37 am: | |
Sorry Iheartthed, Once the city, village or township has been annexed to major city it's done forever. But we could have the rest of Redford TWP. Highland Park, Hamtramck, Harper Woods, and the 5 Grosse Pointes (Snobbyvilles) to be annex to Detroit. So for Farmington and Farmington Hills are planning to merge into one square sized city.
(Message edited by danny on September 26, 2007) |
Chuckjav
Member
Username: Chuckjav
Post Number: 87
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:39 am: | |
lhearthed....yes, what you wrote is true. Parts of the former Greenfield/Redford townships also have some of the most blighted areas in the city, to go along with two recently closed high schools; to make the the re-annexation work would be something of a pick & choose maneuver.
My thoughts are that, without direction from a bonafide governmental unit, real change in those areas will never take place. Turning parts of the former townships over to Wayne County, the State of Michigan...or perhaps the Federal Government may be the only hope. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6591
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:45 am: | |
How about this. Annex all of the suburbs of Wayne County to Detroit. But each sub-divisions will have to pay of their own property taxes, have their own school districts, neighborhood city halls, own public parks, police depts. and much more.
That goes with all the suburbs of Oakland County to Pontiac and all of suburbs of Macomb County to Mount Clemens. Then we would have tri-cities of Detroit, Pontiac and Mount Clemens. |
Chuckjav
Member
Username: Chuckjav
Post Number: 88
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:54 am: | |
danindc....yes perhaps agribusiness is too ambitious a term. Community gardening, as you suggest, is a much better use of the vacant land than serving as community garbage dumps.
I wish there was some way that Detroit and other communities could place restrictions on rental property. Something along the lines of seizing neglected property; "encouraging" the actual home owner to either live there or ensure maintenance.
"Take care of your property, or we're going to turn it into a vegetable garden".
Makes me hungry just thinking about it.
Seriously though.....
Bottom Line: Without making changes to the U.S. Constitution - Detroit, State of Michigan, United States of America....will remain in deep do-do. This ain't the 18th century; changes must be made.
But that is an entirely different thread. |
Chuckjav
Member
Username: Chuckjav
Post Number: 89
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 11:06 am: | |
I've said this for years & years: Detroit pretty much rolled the dice and lost with aggressive annexation during the early 20th century.
It is difficult (at best) to fathom that past city fathers really believed all their land grabbing would work out, in the long haul.
Some how, some way, part of fixing the problem may very well rest in "de-annexation". |
Umcs
Member
Username: Umcs
Post Number: 43
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 11:20 am: | |
Offer veterans from the military who have retired and/or been honorably discharged the opportunity to purchase government-owned properties and houses for $1.00 provided they live there for X number of years. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1699
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 11:24 am: | |
^I think Detroit has about as much chance of unloading it's blighted areas on surrounding suburbs as it does of annexing current surrounding suburbs. The problem isn't that the city has too much land, it's that it has too few (local) people interested in it. Unloading land will not change that.
In a region as large as metro Detroit, why are so few people interested in the central city? What is it about Boston, New York, D.C., SF, Chicago that make it the central component to the surrounding metropolis? |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3358
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 11:41 am: | |
quote:So Dan, you piss on tourism but think that community gardens are one of the answers to revitalizing Michigan? How many carrots do you plan to sell?
If you're going to shoot other people's ideas down so hard, perhaps you shouldn't propose such ridiculous solutions.
A tactic SO ridiculous, that it's already being adopted:
quote:According to the study, these are areas where fringe food locations — gas stations, liquor stores, party stores, dollar stores, bakeries, pharmacies and convenience stores — are ... uh ... more convenient than mainstream grocers. In fact, about 550,000 Detroiters, well over half the city population, live in out-of-balance areas where the nearest grocery store is twice as far away as the nearest fringe food location. Combine that with a lack of a good mass transit system and you have a nutrition drought. Those severely out-of-balance areas are defined as food deserts.
quote:"Given the vast number of vacant lots in Detroit, we're creating a model of how we can utilize that space," says Yakini. "We're trying to create greater access to fresh produce, generate income and create jobs. To change the community's vision of what a city is and how space is used in a city. I don't think we're going to feed Detroit on vacant lots but we can grow 10 to 25 percent of the food and that's a significant impact."
http://www.metrotimes.com/edit orial/story.asp?id=11830 |
Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 642
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:03 pm: | |
Boston, New York, D.C., SF, Chicago have great mass transit within the core area, AND their development policies don't seem to work to the detriment of the core city areas. Sprawl is not as feasible in most of those cities like it is here.
(Message edited by gazhekwe on September 26, 2007) |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1702
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:12 pm: | |
Sprawl is not as feasible in most of those cities like it is here.
But is it really feasible in Detroit anymore? An already rock bottom housing market value is projected to take another +20% drop in the next 2 years.
How many of you are homeowners with the majority of your assets tied into the value of your home? How many metro Detroiters close to retirement have the majority of their assets tied into the value of their home? Can they afford such a drastic loss of value in their home at this stage in the game, from a financial standpoitnt?
A couple months ago the headlines were "Houses in Detroit cheaper than cars". The next headline will read "Cars in Detroit a better investment than houses". |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3359
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:15 pm: | |
quote:Sprawl is not as feasible in most of those cities like it is here.
You've never been to the cesspool of Northern Virginia, have you? |
Chuckjav
Member
Username: Chuckjav
Post Number: 90
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:19 pm: | |
Let's try this one on for size:
Blighted areas of the nation's cities should be federalized; the dang old Department of Housing and Urban Development needs to take charge of unproductive urban land.
The Feds can proceed with enacting programs of redevelopment without interference from lackadaisical city, county, and state government.
Take charge by any means necessary.
(Message edited by chuckjav on September 26, 2007)
(Message edited by chuckjav on September 26, 2007) |
Lmr
Member
Username: Lmr
Post Number: 103
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 1:04 pm: | |
Boost up the medical facilities in Detroit, make them really world class - not that they are bad now - but a place like Mayo Clinic or Johns Hopkins builds a whole economy of its own. |
Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman
Post Number: 531
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 6:11 pm: | |
Privatize SMART and DDOT.
The third world nations have better mass transit then Detroit. Our public bus systems are outdated and operate as if the year is 1979. If companies such as G.M. and Ford operated this way, they would have gone broke a long time ago.
The success of public bus service since the 1990's is primarily from the parasitic relationship it has with local government officials and sympathetic voters and organizations such as the TRU and MOSES which promote transit tax increases as a way to help the poor out of poverty and other false propagandas.
DDOT is hopeless but they will likely prevail as SEMCOG, MDOT and transit advocates are working hard to milk even more money from the taxpayers with creative new taxes that many of you DY'ers are likely to support.
So, the next time you buy that big mac or a car, think about SMART and DDOT. Or, support my cause to get mass transit on television to be debated to maximize the use of our limited transportation tax dollars and gain much needed direct industry supports.
See DETROIT LINKS |
Titancub
Member
Username: Titancub
Post Number: 85
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 8:15 pm: | |
Mass transit and linking the whole region is vital. Most great cities have it, and aspiring cities are planning to or incorporating.
Danny, of your ideas only #4 made any rational sense which almost leads me to think you are joking but I'm baited to reply anyhow.
#1 - Being completely partisan and inflammatory isn't the answer plus show me what the Granholm and the Dems have done w/ their power to inspire you so much that they can effectively exclusively run this state. Agree that the GOP here hasn't been A+ performers, but at some point the Dems have to do SOMETHING to lead our state.
#2 and #3 -- You want to bring businesses into the state (yeah, i'm on board with that), then your next point is to tax the bejesus out of them and if they don't like it they can just go back to whereever they came. Difficult to reconcile that, and businesses seeing that tax policy and that 'take it or leave it' mentality will locate elsewhere. |
Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 406
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 9:39 pm: | |
I'm a big fan of Smart City Radio and there is a discussion on one of the past shows that I think is relavant to this discussion and would be an interest to all Detroityesers.
Follow this link:
http://www.smartcityradio.com/ smartcityradio/past_shows.cfm? showsmartcityID=305&PageNum_ge tsmartshows=1
to the discussion with Keith Schneider. If you click on the "past shows", you can access part II w/ Mr. Schneider.
As I was listening to archived shows today, I thought of this thread. Others that come to mind that you might want to check out are
"Transportation is Fundamental"
"Living the Good Life" w/ Brian Boyle
"Smarter Growth"
and "Old Habits and New Realities" w/ Lou Glazer
...among so many others. Very stimulating discussions that I hope others would find just as interesting as I do. |
Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman
Post Number: 532
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 7:28 pm: | |
In 1995, the state of Michigan shut down SMART and all the wheelchair lifts.
We could just keep crippling the handicapped by cutting off all state funds and then call those that fight these cuts racists and accuse them of hate.
Unless, these same people who fight the state cuts just give up and vote for more property tax increases.
It is the high property tax that is hurting our state and if we all do nothing our state will just keep cutting and it will be the property owners that will pay.
Then even more jobs will be lost.
Wal-Mart in Livonia is planning to build dormitories for workers because the property taxes on the houses near the store are nearly as high as the wages they pay and we lost state funding for SMART. |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5013
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 7:53 pm: | |
quote:
In a region as large as metro Detroit, why are so few people interested in the central city? What is it about Boston, New York, D.C., SF, Chicago that make it the central component to the surrounding metropolis?
Hate to say it, but racial tension/attitudes/intolerance plays a BIG part in this....
And that my friends is the 800lb gorilla that is really what this region seems to ignore... |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 4100
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 8:24 pm: | |
quote:In a region as large as metro Detroit, why are so few people interested in the central city? What is it about Boston, New York, D.C., SF, Chicago that make it the central component to the surrounding metropolis? Probably because the "central" city is tucked out of the way by the river and Canada. But, you can buy into that alternative racism rot excuse, if you choose to. The real reason was that the wind was not getting into Detroit's sails after the 1920s, and the city naturally declined and declined. At the same time, the burbs were doing OK back then. Go figger.
Not really "central," except when Detroit was but a village two hundred plus years ago. New Center is more of a real downtown than the so-called CBD. It probably would have evolved that way if the Detroit auto boom didn't go bust just about the same time that the New Center was developed (circa 1928).
The Fisher was to be one of two towers, with another building connecting them. But Detroit started going bust during the late 1920s, and during and after the Great Depression, Detroit never fully recovered, nor ever will it again. Detroit has few reasons to exist other than what it's become.
(Message edited by LivernoisYard on September 27, 2007) |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 203
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 8:47 pm: | |
The problem I have with hearing ideas from detroiters is they view Michigan as just Detroit. Revitalizing Michigan involves the WHOLE state. Detroit may be the biggest and most important city, but places like Flint, Muskegon, Benton Harbor etc. badly need attention, too.
If I had more political clout, I'd run for governor.
1)We need a team of buisnessmen, experienced and professional, to actively negotiate with buisnesses from out of state and out of the country. Offer existing, vacant factory space/offices at a low fee,cheaper than the cost of building a whole new facility, and keep taxes low for the first few years while they try to get their foot in the door.Raise the taxes 2% every year, until the buisness succeeds (put a 5 year limit in place for this).
2)Keep buisness taxes fairly low to leave room for them to be able to expand their work force and develop new technology.
3)More attention to crime prevention. Try to fix the high statistics for places like Detroit, Flint, saginaw etc. Identify the highest-crime areas of the highest-crime cities, and when the peak hours are of crime. Propose higher jurisdictional power for state police and county sheriffs departments to patrol these areas to prevent crime, as well as assist the city police by responding to calls during peak hours to increase manpower and make response times quicker.
Example: Suppose the city of Town A has a problem with drugs and prostitution between 8 pm and 2 AM on Skidrow Avenue (and that activity is suspected in a higher theft/burglary rate nearby). Pull a state and/or county unit to patrol that area, during those hours. Authorize use of the City department's jail facility for the asisting departments.This will free up city units to get caught up on calls in other areas without getting backed up while still providing the extra patrols that were needed but weren't available before. I don't think places like Detroit, Flint or saginaw will ever fully bounce back until a serious, drastic effort is made to lower crime and people can see it. I believe crime has hurt the reputations of some of our major areas.
3) stricter zoning/limit sprawl. With such a bad real estate market and people moving out of state, the last thing we need is more housing going up. That just means more foreclosures, and more vacant houses sitting around gathering mold over a longer, larger area.Fix the economy, bring back jobs, and bring back people before building countless more new buildings/houses.
Thats a start.... |
Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 409
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 6:39 pm: | |
HP, what you say is true, I just think that when you hear people in Michigan saying things like, "Detroit is our state's window to the world" and the like, they just mean that the concentration of economic impact enters and exits from the Detroit area.
I'm thinking it similar to how Columbus, Macon, Savannah, and Athens are important cities in Georgia, but without the "country" of Atlanta, Georgia would not be on a quest to surpass Michigan in every sense of the word in the near future.
I think of Colorado as similar to this as well...Fort Collins, Colorado Springs, and Pueblo are all important hubs in that state, but without Denver and its smart, attractive economy-building, the state would be much less-than.
Major metropolitan areas are and will continue to be the key drivers of economic prosperity. As we continue to "flatten" Metro Detroit both physically and by perception, Michigan is far less competitive than the places where people actually want to live. Which is why, in my opinion, downtown Detroit is attractive right now. In terms of place making, it is a sense of place in the making. Something unique and different that you can't find anywhere else. That's what people are starved for in this country and especially Michigan.
So, while the rest of the state should not in the least bit, be ignored, much of the focus for the state's wellbeing is around Detroit; much to do also with the fact that 1/2 the state's people live here too. |
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