  Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 1014 Registered: 06-2004 |
Birmingham recently approved its plan for the Triangle District (bounded by Maple, Woodward and Adams). Despite being stereotyped as the epitome of preppy suburbanization, the city is rapidly urbanizing and embracing urban values. I think Birmingham will grow to be a major node of the emerging urban corridor of Woodward between downtown and Pontiac and a long-term strategic ally of Detroit. It is certainly not "sprawl" as is sometimes alleged by the uninformed. The plan is at: http://www.bhambuzz.org/images/uploads/Triange_Final.pdf  | ||
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite Post Number: 224 Registered: 06-2007 |
I love Birmingham. If I leave my home downtown I am probably headed to Royal Oak or Birmingham. This is an exciting project for B'ham to expand an underutilized area of their downtown. Even if you don't frequent this area, you should appreciate that this will further influence peoples' perceptions of the importance of attractive and functional urban planning. I can't wait to see this project completed. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 863 Registered: 06-2005 |
Wow, finally a City in the Metro who is putting together a fantastic Urban development plan. The other Cities can learn from this model... including Detroit. The only criticism I have is that the Woodward side buildings should be even higher than 7-9 stories... maybe to 11 stories to bring the size of Woodward into perspective. The planned public areas and "human" sized residential buildings is great. Now, if only we can get Woodward divided and downsized in Midtown....... | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1331 Registered: 11-2004 |
And it's already producing results. This district should a model for the entire Woodward corridor. Birmingham approves Triangle District; first project prepares to move forward http://metromodemedia.com/devn ews/BTriangle0034.aspx | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2161 Registered: 06-2006 |
It's good how this has become the trend in recent years in SE Michigan... Plymouth, Northville, Royal Oak, and now Birmingham are all focusing on making their downtowns more urban and walkable... A good change in direction from what had been the trend in SE Michigan for several decades... Now if Detroit can ever get any of its numerous planned developments moving forward, the region will be on its way... | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6543 Registered: 02-2004 |
The suburbs are doing what they do best. COMPETING AGAINST DETROIT! And they still in the lead in their urban sprawl development. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2594 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote:All four communities have seen downtown property values shoot through the roof. Higher-density development is an organic result. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3683 Registered: 02-2005 |
Danny, the suburbs that are building themselves up, i.e. Birmingham, Royal Oak, and even Grosse Pointe now, are not creating more sprawl. You could contend that they are competing with Detroit in terms of creating spaces where people will spend a day or an evening shopping/eating out;. While inner city re-urbanization is optimal for this region, the region still benefits if urbanism is implemented in any of its communities. We need everything we can get; we have places like Livonia and Sterling Heights and Troy that hold massive populations but do not have downtowns. They're characterless, so creating character inside or outside of the city will be absolutely key in making this a desirable region to live. And don't forget that having points of high density, connected by corridors of high density, will make regional transit make so much more sense. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 2386 Registered: 10-2003 |
Notice that NONE of this type of "new urban" development is going on in Macomb County. Warren has marginalized its "Old Village" area, which rightfully should be a downtown, and instead has decided to build a "new downtown" at 12 1/2 Mile and Van Dyke. Eastpointe tore down the old brick building on the SE corner of 9 Mile and Gratiot, which could have been the focal point of a downtown center, and replaced it with strip-suburban development to match the other side of Gratiot. St. Clair Shores installed a curving street, decidedly non-urban in character (I know that it has supporters on this forum, but let's face it: urban it's not), on Mack south of 9 Mile in the old historic business district. SCS is bent on promoting the Nautical Mile on Jefferson as the city's new downtown. Roseville has no center other than the former City Hall on Gratiot (now Fox Portrait). Fraser: not much left in the old town center, other than the old bank building. Mt. Clemens and Utica have the best shots at creating walkable downtowns, but what they've done so far pales in comparison to the progress in the communities in Oakland County (RO, Ferndale, B'ham, Oxford, Rochester, Lake Orion, even Berkley). As previously mentioned, Plymouth and Northville are also on the right track. So what's wrong with Macomb County? Is it a backwards mentality; an outdated suburban mindset? Just asking... | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2163 Registered: 06-2006 |
I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with Macomb county...I know it's hard to believe, but not everyone prefers the same thing... | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 2387 Registered: 10-2003 |
So you're saying that people who like cul-de-sacs and strip malls gravitate to Macomb County? That it's the home of '60s and '70s-style suburbanites who have isolationist thinking? Not that there's anything WRONG with that... | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 2388 Registered: 10-2003 |
I would put it to you that Macomb County symbolizes the absolute antithesis of everything that this forum promotes, in terms of promoting urban life/development. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1332 Registered: 11-2004 |
Mt. Clemens is making headway in promoting an urban environment. It might not garner the type of headlines that Birmingham, Royal Oak, Ferndale and Ann Arbor do, but it is quietly improving its vibrant downtown with projects like these: Developer to refurbish old Macomb Daily building in downtown Mt. Clemens http://metromodemedia.com/devn ews/MacombDaily0029.aspx?refer rerID=fbce1ca4-4d52-4248-90c8- 1d38b1b5f80d New martini bar coming to restored storefront in downtown Mt. Clemens http://metromodemedia.com/devn ews/ClemensMartini0029.aspx?re ferrerID=fbce1ca4-4d52-4248-90 c8-1d38b1b5f80d Mt. Clemens streetscape project moving forward http://metromodemedia.com/devn ews/MTClemens0028.aspx?referre rID=fbce1ca4-4d52-4248-90c8-1d 38b1b5f80d Mt. Clemens gets Wi-Fi service up and running for downtown http://metromodemedia.com/devn ews/MtClemensWiFi0027.aspx?ref errerID=fbce1ca4-4d52-4248-90c 8-1d38b1b5f80d Two-thirds of 24-unit River Lofts in Mt. Clemens sold http://metromodemedia.com/devn ews/rivlofts2.aspx Don't sleep on Mt. Clemens. It, along with Wyandotte and Ypsilanti, is experiencing a good bit of renewal in recent years that is going largely unrecognized by mainstream Metro Detroit. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2164 Registered: 06-2006 |
"I would put it to you that Macomb County symbolizes the absolute antithesis of everything that this forum promotes, in terms of promoting urban life/development." Yes, you're right. But it's all a matter of perspective. Ask the people in Macomb, and they'll tell you that they feel sorry for people who *have* to live in urban areas because they can't afford to live in suburbs like the ones in Macomb... | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 2391 Registered: 10-2003 |
I agree with you, E_hemingway. The secret's been out about Wyandotte for a few years, but Mt. Clemens IS starting to show some promise. Restoring the original street grid might help there. Ypsilanti is definitely another sleeper; it's really improved in the last decade, and has a lot of very nice 19th-century commercial building stock downtown. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3684 Registered: 02-2005 |
But that just makes Macomb backwards, Thejesus. Truth exists, and the truth is their environment is totally messed up, even more than the rest of suburban Detroit, and that says alot. Props to Mt. Clemens, though. It's not a place where 95 % of Macomb residents hang out, though. | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 314 Registered: 10-2003 |
Where's Warren's "Old Village" area? quote: That's right at the corner of the GM Tech Center. Maybe GM's millions in annual tax revenues to Warren had something to do with this? | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1333 Registered: 11-2004 |
Places like Mt Clemens and Wyandotte are the saving graces of the Macomb County and Downtown River communities. You're right Fury, bland and unhealthy suburban sprawl dominates those areas outside of those two city centers. There are glimmers of hope in a few varying spots like Warren's new downtown and Trenton, but you're dead-on about those places being the antithesis of what this forum advocates. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 2392 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Where's Warren's "Old Village" area?" Warren's Old Village is on Mound between 13 and 14 Mile -- it includes many 19th- and early 20th-century buildings. Warren city leaders had the chance to build some infill there, maybe reconfigure Mound to slow it down for walkability, and create a historic/new downtown, but they blew it. (Message edited by Fury13 on September 20, 2007) | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2165 Registered: 06-2006 |
"But that just makes Macomb backwards, Thejesus" Relative to your preference, yes, they are backwards. But you are backwards relative to them. Again, it's all a matter of perspective. Not everyone wants to live in urban areas with vibrant downtowns. Many prefer the peace and quiet of being far removed from such places. The trend in recent years has been towards more walkable, urban communities, but not everybody hops on board the latest trend. | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 315 Registered: 10-2003 |
Fury, thanks. Never knew Warren had an Old Village area. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 2394 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thejesus, do Sterling Heights and Roseville really offer "peace and quiet"? The traffic and noise levels are pretty high on both Gratiot and Van Dyke, last time I looked. (Message edited by Fury13 on September 20, 2007) | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2166 Registered: 06-2006 |
^yeah, but the neighborhoods are superblocks where most of the housing is far, far removed from all that noise...whe you live in a 1 mile x 1mile subdivision, you don't hear traffic or see people shopping, but the freeways are still easy to access and the shopping is close by.. point is, different people have different preferences...even if most people prefer walkable urban communities nowadays, there are still some people who choose to live in places like Macomb county, Livonia, Troy, etc. There's really no argument here... | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 1072 Registered: 11-2003 |
Fury, not everyone in Sterling Heights & Roseville "live" on Van Dyke & Gratiot. So the answer is yes, those communities offer relative peace & quite. I don't agree with a lot of what thejesus posts, but he has emphasized over & over again that not EVERYONE on earth desires and urban environment. You and I may not agree with that choice, but those people have created the demand & the market for suburban development. You can stereotype all you want, but many people who live out in those cornfields & mcmansions are more intelligent, cultured, and well traveled than you and I will ever be. They just choose to live a different lifestyle. That said, Macomb County, and its urban centers are changing rapidly, because that demand is starting to sway back towards a more urban lifestyle. There is more brownfield redevelopment going on in Eastpointe than anywhere else along Gratiot. Roseville & Clinton Township both have plans in place to allow mixed use, high density, urban development fronting Gratiot. Mount Clemens progress in the last few years was mentioned above and speaks for itself. Romeo, Richmond, Utica, New Baltimore & Warren all have plans to encourage more mixed use housing in their respective downtowns. The thing to remember is that just because someone doesn't choose to "live" in an urban environment doesn't mean they don't enjoy, or take advantage of these urban centers, or more specifically Detroit. I have friends/family that live in the middle of nowhere and spend more money in the city on a regular basis that you and I probably ever will living in the city. My whole point is just be a little more open minded and less judgemental. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 2395 Registered: 10-2003 |
"My whole point is just be a little more open minded and less judgemental." Believe it or not, I advocate that viewpoint as well. I simply thought that one of the central discussion points of this entire forum is to promote an urban lifestyle, and specifically, a resurgent Detroit (with the understanding that older, inner-ring suburbs with town centers are OK as well, because they do not promote sprawl and also encourage neighborly interaction). Those who know me also know that I have no problem with rural life; in fact, my lifestyle preferences dictate that I will likely move to the outer reaches of the tri-county area within a year or two. True country living can be tranquil and fulfilling. Obviously, I also enjoy the energy of a vital "city that works," which means mass transit, interesting attractions, nightlife, well-kept parks, and livable neighborhoods. It's the "in-between" that I cannot relate to -- the subdivisions that turn in upon themselves and don't connect to the rest of the street grid, the strip malls, the big-box stores, the parking lots, the office buildings set back 1,000 feet from the street. I think all of that is an unhealthy, insular, wishy-washy paradigm for those who cannot decide between city and country. But that's OK -- plenty do make the choice to live that way, and plenty more will. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5376 Registered: 08-2004 |
The demise of Macomb County is greatly exaggerated... I'll take a nice sail on my buddy's 27 foot sailboat along the St. Clair Shores coastline over a clogged and traffic congested Birmingham any day. And for that curved section of Greater Mack that so many people seem to dislike, it was put there to encourage people to use the ring road around that area... a ring road that would benefit so many towns and cities in metro Detroit, but they seem to prefer to leave Automobiles as king of the road. So maybe SCS is ahead of the curve on that one. And Fraser does have a commercial core... it goes on 14 Mile from Utica Rd. to Garfield Rd. It may not be much, but the city's master plan is to incorporate the entire Utica/14/Garfield triangle into a higher density area in the near future. Mt. Clemens and Clinton & Harrison Townships have a really cool meandering waterway known as the Clinton River that has restaurants, shops and marinas going for miles out towards the lake. North and South River Roads are really starting to look very nice. Why is the prevailing mindset on this forum that everyone wants to live in a high density area clustered around shops and entertainment, such as Birmingham, downtown, Plymouth and Royal Oak? Doesn't it occur to you folks that some people just like a nice quiet neighborhood without a bunch of cars and city noises?? And if you don't want to live in one of those cool areas with all that nice architecture, why is it that you are somehow considered deprived of culture and coolness?? Lowell lives out in Farmington Hills, and he doesn't seem to have suffered any lingering effects from a suburban lifestyle. So let's stop this silly game of saying that folk who live far from the sounds and the bustle of the city, are somehow uncultured hicks. There's uncultured folks everywhere, the suburbs of Macomb County don't have a monopoly on them!  (Message edited by Gistok on September 20, 2007) | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 2403 Registered: 10-2003 |
Gistok: I don't really agree with the concept of ring roads. You may as well close the street and make it a pedestrian mall (a sure way to kill a business district). No, the way to keep a downtown vital is to keep traffic flowing through (but keep the speed down and include parallel parking... perfect example is the revamping of West 9 Mile in Ferndale). | ||
Masterblaster Member Username: Masterblaster Post Number: 88 Registered: 03-2005 |
The US headquarters of VW is moving to Virginia (and don't forget Comerica), one of the reasons being that it cannot attract people to a metropolitan area where the big city (THE CORE) is decrepit and dilapidated with no retail districts, bad city services, high crime etc. The downtowns of Plymouth, Wyandotte, Ferndale, Birmingham, etc. have been thriving for a while and has seen enormous investment because people are scared of living and playing in Detroit (THE REAL THING!!), and perhaps rightly so (crime, bad services, high taxes/insurance, etc.) But despite the investment in all these little downtowns, young professionals still are not interested in coming to the Detroit Area!!!!!!!! It's because in the end, I DON'T THINK these little downtowns matter!!! What matters is that the Real Thing (central DETROIT) thrives. If Downtown-Midtown-New Center-East Riverfront was thriving like crazy, do you think that the Detroit Area would be so unattractive to young professionals??? No, I think that they'd be flocking here!!! Those suburban downtowns have been thriving, but the yuppies aren't flocking here!! | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5378 Registered: 08-2004 |
I understand Fury13, but they also want people to avoid using Greater Mack north of 9 Mile, where it starts becoming a residential street (a few blocks north of 9 Mile). The ring road (actually it's only an east fork or west fork to 9 Mile Rd.) tries to funnel thru traffic onto 9 Mile so that folks use either Jefferson or Harper/Little Mack to continue north within the town. I haven't heard of complaints by retailers, and in many instances the parking is in back (where the forks in the road are anyway). The narrowed 3 lane curved road also allows one of the restaurants to have sidewalk cafe dining, as well as some angled parking (such as in front of the post office). It's not an ideal solution, but it does get traffic off of Greater Mack north of 9 Mile Rd. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4601 Registered: 10-2003 |
I agree with Fury on Macomb County for the most part but the one exception may be Mount Clemens. The downtown Mt. Clemens area has a ways to go but the Main Street area is primed for a Macomb version of Royal Oak or Ferndale. The traditional neighborhood housing stock in Mount Clemens is very good. I know Mt Clemens even has a couple loft projects. Their political class is trending progressive and green which is usually a good thing for urbanist planning. Hell Mt. Clemens even has openly gay city council members - good luck finding that in most Wayne County and Oakland County communities. I'd go so far as to posit an openly gay candidate for Detroit City Council would have a hard time getting elected and Detroit is supposed to be the most liberal big city in America or something like that. Actually, at the risk of a thread jack, the most unnoticed political story in Michigan right now is the re-emerging Democratic majority in Macomb County. That has nothing to do with urban planning per se but worth mentioning since I'm on the topic. |
