  Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2192 Registered: 06-2006 |
...and, apparently, a lot of its employees are saying they will quit because they won't be able to sell their homes in Lansing and the commute is too long... So if you guys know any good people in the area looking for employment, there may be some spots open soon... http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070921/P OLITICS/709210341 (Message edited by thejesus on September 22, 2007) | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 11 Registered: 09-2007 |
So it's a Lose-Lose situation in general. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2193 Registered: 06-2006 |
For the current employees of the Gaming Board, it's a lose-lose situation... but the Gaming board doesn't exist to serve the interest of it's employees...it exists to serve the state of Michigan... This decision was made with the long-term interest of the state of Michigan in mind. Detroit's about to open 3 permanent hotel/casinos...makes sense to have the state's gaming board in close proximity to the action.. Not to mention the fact that the article says the state was paying half-a-million $$$ a year in rent to a private landlord while it own a perfectly good office building here in Detroit that has space available (Message edited by thejesus on September 22, 2007) | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1573 Registered: 11-2003 |
This makes sense. Have the Gaming Board where the casino's are. Not to mention utilize resources in a more efficient manner. Sounds like what the Republican's have been complaining about the state not doing for so long. Can't please everyone. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 13 Registered: 09-2007 |
Yes, this is a Win-Win situation for the city of Detroit and the State of Michigan I will admit. These are situation where we need a Rapid Rail system from Lansing to Detroit though, then maybe we wouldn't have to worry about throwing these workers out of their jobs or homes. It's one of those situations that "it's not doing anything but moving the same jobs from one place to another". It's not really a gain or loss for anyone in the end (unless you count more centralizing). (Message edited by Detroitrise on September 22, 2007) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4009 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: Huh!? The taxpayers should shell out several $ billions more so that fifty lousy state workers don't have to move??? What about the 120,000 net workers in the tax-paying private sector (which eventually pays for everything) that will be lost in Michigan just this year alone. What will those fifty whining state employees (who will have jobs, BTW) do about those 1/8 million former workers in the state who just lost their jobs--many without any help other than unemployment benefits for a few weeks? Get real! (Message edited by LivernoisYard on September 22, 2007) | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 14 Registered: 09-2007 |
I was using this situation as an example. It wouldn't be a bad idea seeing as we're the City Center for the state and it's the Capital. Usually many of the state workers have to drive back and forth from these cities because some of the government offices are in Downtown and others are in Lansing. There could be stops in between as well (Novi, Brighton, Howell). It could be a Grand River/I-96 route. NYC has something like that, so does Atlanta, and other cities have been looking into it as well. (Message edited by Detroitrise on September 22, 2007) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4011 Registered: 10-2004 |
No, it's a very bad idea... And there's no money to build even cheap waystations for something like that, let alone anything major. The state has taken seven months and still hasn't figured out how to get the money next year for running one of the nation's lousiest governments--and some whacko wants a train system??? | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 16 Registered: 09-2007 |
"and some whacko wants a train system???" So I guess all the other people who want a Woodward line, DTW and Ann Arbor line are Whacko as well then? I don't understand how an Ann Arbor line benefits more than a Lansing line. It goes to show how screwed up our region, let along state is. (Message edited by Detroitrise on September 22, 2007) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4012 Registered: 10-2004 |
Bingo! You got that right. They're whackos, too. | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 950 Registered: 10-2006 |
This conversation is exactly why we are DEAD LAST in the country in terms of employment, economic development and higher education. Every time someone has an idea on how to improve our region, some small-minded person yells about how much it's going to cost. "Not with MY money" is the knee-jerk reaction to everything. There is a reason why NY, Atlanta, Chicago and even Minneapolis are prospering why our economy remains in the toilet. This selfish "me-ism" will continue to leave us lagging behind while other communities invest in infrastructure, education and technology that makes their region more attractive. As long as we are satisfied living in caves, when companies decide where they want to do business - it will not be here. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4013 Registered: 10-2004 |
The way Michigan's going is that everybody but city and state workers, err. employees will be living in caves. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6560 Registered: 02-2004 |
YAY GRANHOLM!! More jobs from the Gaming board coming to Detroit new hop for Michigan. | ||
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55 Post Number: 558 Registered: 09-2005 |
Damn right we don't ned light rail!! At least not until we finish converting I-75 in Oakland County into that 28-lane highway that we NEED. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 26 Registered: 09-2007 |
"Damn right we don't ned light rail!! At least not until we finish converting I-75 in Oakland County into that 28-lane highway that we NEED." LOL Alan. I guess we'll need that I-94 B before we get a Light Rail then. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4018 Registered: 10-2004 |
Duh! If people in Michigan wanted trains they would have requested or demanded them decades ago. All the interurbans (i.e., trains for those who attended DPS and its analogs) were all broke by the 1930s; some even went broke ten, twenty years before that. And Detroit mulled over building a subway system nearly ninety years ago and turned it down and built infrastructure back then that would be expensive to adapt to rail today. Besides, there's next to no money today anyway. So a few DY whackos want trains when there's nowhere near enough money to build AND to operate and maintain--if already built. And who's going to ride them at the rate that would come close to justifying them? Metro Detroit and Michigan are both broke basket cases, and any ridership needs anywhere in MI could completely flip-flop in an incredibly short time if and when more businesses belly up. So, intelligent siting of any rail system has to be extremely well thought out. Such prudent planning is well over and beyond the limited capability of the stupid political leaders in SE Michigan. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 187 Registered: 07-2007 |
The states timing is impeccable, right after school started. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1967 Registered: 01-2005 |
Just wait until the middle east turns off the oil. You're gonna see rail transit take off big time. You heard it here first. And it's gonna happen. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4020 Registered: 10-2004 |
Michigan rail systems won't ever connect well enough anyways. Thry'll always be bus-oriented with or without any rail... Besides, we have some 700 years of coal to convert to petrofuels without even getting to our oil shale. Rail transit will **NEVER** take off in Michigan. And you didn't hear that here first... | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 189 Registered: 07-2007 |
Wait until we nuke the middle east. Gas will be free  kidding of course Too bad Detroit had the old streetcar tracks ripped out, just like in LA when they ripped those out, They could be well used now. (Message edited by lefty2 on September 22, 2007) | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 111 Registered: 11-2006 |
I don't understand Lyard's extreme bias towards rail travel. It should be a priority in Mi. We have spent too many years and too much money on roads, highways, and parking lots. We've done this at the behest of an auto industry that is failing and abandoning us. We seem to be able to come up with the millions needed to expand highways, yet anytime anyone mentions any other form of transportation people throw there arms up and proclaim that we don't have the money and nobody will ride it. As long as these attitudes continue we will see the educated youth, like myself, leaving MI for cities with decent transit options. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4023 Registered: 10-2004 |
Duh! Rail is expensive to build, requires sufficient population density (in the proper locations) to justify the expense, and the money has to be there. Being serial by nature, an accident puts it totally out of service. Remember how long the Detroit PM toy downtown was unavailable after the demolition of Hudson's? And rail system are **VERY** costly to modify if the ridership projections don't (more likely, won't) pan out. Besides, only loonies really believe--as in a religion that trains would rejuvenate a dead horse like SE Michigan. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on September 23, 2007) | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 112 Registered: 11-2006 |
Trains alone will not rejuvenate SE MI but they are a part of the picture. If we really want the area to be succesful then we have to have more options for transportation than car or car. Secondly, density would develope around stations. Finally, as the cost of gas continues to rise, which it will exponentially due to growth in China, it will be a huge burden on people in regions that do not have any reliable public transit. | ||
Oliverdouglas Member Username: Oliverdouglas Post Number: 127 Registered: 02-2006 |
LY has spoken: we're a dead horse. Everyone stop what you're doing and run away. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 391 Registered: 11-2003 |
Seems like a logical move to have the main office here - the majority of the work, I assume, is here. Although it is 50 jobs, I don't see how this can be called a move to help Detroit as it's a very small amount of state employees. I do understand the consternation about family, however, and I know quite a few people who live in Brighton/Novi and one commutes downtown the other commutes to Lansing/Okemos. The position to be in sucks for the employees - as much as I said that with a move of a suburban organization downtown that people will keep their jobs after a little grousing, there is a big difference between a 30-40 minute commute and a 90 minute commute. Having some friends who work in State government, there also is a bus that the state runs from Lansing to Detroit for state employees, as there are a cadre of workers who have to split time where say 3 days are in Detroit and 2 days are in Lansing. Still sucks to be away from your family for an additional two hours a day (assuming a previously half-hour commute). As to trains, I am in the middle. I love trains and light rail, personally, but I'm also pragmatic. If we can leverage existing infrastructure with minor tweaks (old rail lines with some new track, etc), it may make cost-effective sense on a limited basis. We simply do not have the money to do anything but high-speed buses right now... a speedlink system, etc, stopping every mile... someone like a Kwame Mommy (tm) and John Conyers (especially being senior, I know wrong committee but he still has juice) could make that happen with a simple budget appropriation - time for us to get some bacon, the Dems are in majority control and the extremely cynical person in me says it's time Detroit gets it's turn at the table. Think of what the money for a "bridge to nowhere" in Alaska could do if applied to Detroit regional mass transit. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4024 Registered: 10-2004 |
It's simple then. Just convince the several millions of Michiganians to have their tax money taken so that the very few rail buffs can have their train sets. Maybe in time for this Christmas? | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 113 Registered: 11-2006 |
Or just let those millions of Michiganians continue to throw billions of tax dollars into highways and roads so that everyone can continue to throw billions of dollars away on gas. Sounds like a great plan for success in MI. It's worked so well up to now. I love spending my afternoons in parking lot traffic due to the never ending road work that needs to be done. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4025 Registered: 10-2004 |
It's types like you that have to educate Michigan taxpayers about how their tax money should be wasted. So, get to it... But you're wasting your time if you just jaw about your pipe dreams on forums like DY--which have no effect upon policy makers or the great mass of Michiganians. | ||
Oliverdouglas Member Username: Oliverdouglas Post Number: 129 Registered: 02-2006 |
^^^ So why do you do it? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4026 Registered: 10-2004 |
Amusement, mostly. And keeping tabs on pipe-dreaming spendthrifts... | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1727 Registered: 10-2006 |
"Duh...All the interurbans (i.e., trains for those who attended DPS and its analogs) were all broke by the 1930s; some even went broke ten, twenty years before that." How much income do highways bring in for the state? | ||
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55 Post Number: 564 Registered: 09-2005 |
Duh! The road-building and construction-equipment lobbies have bought and paid for all of the politicians they have in their pocket decades ago. Even with a public desire, the politicians aren't going to go against their paymasters. It's the Golden Rule - he who has the gold makes the rules. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4028 Registered: 10-2004 |
A simple fact of life... The vast majority of Michiganians want cars, trucks, and highways, whereas only a wee tiny percentage them want trains, rail, or even mass transit. Otherwise, there would be meaningful evidence of their desiring trains and rail transportation (to be paid for by them, naturally). | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3338 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: You mean evidence like the increases in Amtrak ridership on Michigan routes? What you propose is ridiculous, Livernoisyard. You might as well say that people in Michigan prefer living near lakes more than mountains or oceans. One is a realistic option--the others are not. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4031 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hi, Dan! Knew you'd come around. What kept you? Amtrak ridership pales in comparison with auto/truck transportation. Even you knew that. So, let me get this straight... Because Amtrak (a losing money-pit boondoggle, BTW) is gaining a few extra riders, the strapped Michigan taxpayers have to spend $ billions extra for rail service that the vast majority don't want and will never use, if ever built? Is that the the gist of it? Hint to young former (meaning ex--who leave, never to return, save for weddings, funerals, etc.) Michiganders, now living in any Virginia suburbs in DC: Unless you can send over several billions of loot here, you're not really helping. After all, it's all about the money. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on September 23, 2007) | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1733 Registered: 10-2006 |
"Hint to young former (meaning ex) Michiganders, now living in any Virgina suburbs in DC: Unless you can send over several billions of loot here, you're not really helping. After all, it's all about the money." Actually, you might not be far from the truth. Most funding for these type of projects does come from the federal level. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4032 Registered: 10-2004 |
Still, at a minimum, 40% of the capital costs (huge, BTW) and all operating expenses (not cheap and are recurring, annually) must be paid locally--state (going broke), county, city (Detroit is heavily already in bonded debt and keeps borrowing to make ends meet every year), etc. So, where's the money really going to come from??? This single (minor? to some dreamers) item is a deal breaker in itself and any other discussion without answering this is fruitless. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1917 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: It is because he is an idiot dinosaur that can't see beyond what the state borders (or next year). The experiences of the rest of the nation and the world are meaningless to him. To him, Michigan's economy (and image) are bad not because of what we've been doing for the last 60 years, but what a couple of "whackos" wish we were doing. You can't convince him, and you shouldn't try. Just ignore him as you might ignore some ranting crackhead talking to himself on the street. That said, a Detroit/Lansing commuter system is a bad idea. The cities should be connected (along with Grand Rapids) with quality intercity rail service. When that gets done, and when the Detroit region gets a network to connect into, then maybe it would be a good idea to have commuter trains. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1686 Registered: 04-2006 |
The vast majority of Michiganians want cars, trucks, and highways, whereas only a wee tiny percentage them want trains, rail, or even mass transit. Otherwise, there would be meaningful evidence of their desiring trains and rail transportation (to be paid for by them, naturally). Yeah, the smart ones left. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4034 Registered: 10-2004 |
The DY pro-rail cultists should stop reconfirming their already confirmed Kool-Aid drinkers and go out and baptize millions of others like them. Otherwise, they're continually only singing to their own choirs. The utter silence among several millions of Michiganders concerning building any rail systems anywhere within the state speaks volumes... | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3339 Registered: 10-2003 |
While this thread initially started upon an entirely different topic, it's evolved to expose a huge competitive disadvantage of the State of Michigan: It's difficult, at best, to get around the state, and activity has become so geographically dispersed that much potential investment capital gets spent on gasoline. If it's this hard to get around *within* Michigan, how is the state supposed to develop economic ties to the rest of the Great Lakes region, the nation, and the world? It's not entirely shocking, then, that Michigan is increasingly becoming an island of poor economic performance. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1687 Registered: 04-2006 |
The utter silence among several millions of Michiganders concerning building any rail systems anywhere within the state speaks volumes... Right along with Michigan's defunct economy. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 37 Registered: 09-2007 |
"While this thread initially started upon an entirely different topic, it's evolved to expose a huge competitive disadvantage of the State of Michigan:" I don't think there's much good or bad to discuss about 50 jobs that were already in the state (other than centralization which I mentioned earlier). |
