  Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 540 Registered: 11-2006 |
73,000 workers is a dissapointingly low number. Companies like GM have been crying struggling and broke as far back as a I can remember. I was at the Majestic cafe today and was thinking about all the closed factories in the city. Imagine if those factories were open, providing jobs with a fair but not unreasonably high wage; business at the majestic would have been booming; the waitstaff pockets would have been full of tips, busses would be full etc. Those loyal workers are breaking their bodies on the assembly line, making a wage that allows them to live a middle class existence. Many Michiganders depend on the auto workers wages.Those GM workers are trying to build and keep a solid foundation of comprehensive benefits for retirement. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 812 Registered: 08-2005 |
How long can these guys live on $200 a week strike pay? Many of the UAW guys I know live pretty extravagant lifestyles. I swear, I think every UAW guy I know drives a brand new truck and most of them have boats or jet skis and property up north, etc. | ||
Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 541 Registered: 11-2006 |
My brother works in Flint at the GM plant and is not in the union. He was one of a number of new hires who were brought in to fill in for vacations and replace the former employees who took buyouts. He is not in the union but can walk the picket line and receive strike pay. | ||
Kjwick Member Username: Kjwick Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2003 |
Terryh - A "middle class" existence in the US is an incredible lifestyle when compared to the majority of individuals in the world. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 871 Registered: 11-2003 |
I turned the TV on during my lunch and channel 7 was reporting that there was a contract agreement. It just seemed really odd to me that the workers would be walking the picket line for less than a half-hour and there would then be a settlement. I'm guessing that someone at channel 7 caught hell over that mistake. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4049 Registered: 10-2004 |
Why bother wasting time following news stories attentively about the GM strike? Most people have lives, so live and forget about the UAW. It's toast, mostly. Gettelfinger has signaled time and time again the past three years that abolishing the Jobs Bank was nonnegotiable. That's the entirety of this whole strike. None of the Big Three will allow any similar Jobs Bank to continue ever again. They will no longer pay $135,000/yr or higher total compensation for some unused, idled workers playing cards or reading in a cafeteria or such location for doing nothing week after week... | ||
Jmarx Member Username: Jmarx Post Number: 27 Registered: 01-2005 |
Here is a thought I don't think I've seen yet here: UAW strike continues for a few weeks, GM decides to declare bankruptcy... Is this really that inconceivable? | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1621 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'm thinking NWA style firing of all the employees is in order. There are thousands and thousands of Michiganders alone who would gladly take those jobs even at $10-$20/hour reduced pay and 1/2 the health benefits. They'd still be pretty good jobs. I'm still angry. Almost 12 hours later, at the sheer stupidity of this move. Unless it is part of a grand plan to sell the whole thing to the rank-and-file. Then maybe it is pure genius  | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 4329 Registered: 11-2006 |
Pay should be productivity and merit based from top to bottom...free market forces in action. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 200 Registered: 07-2007 |
just a hunch but mes thinks that the gm will hold out quit a while on this one. playing low key maybe | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4052 Registered: 10-2004 |
A strike could shake out the unnecessary dealerships that all of the Big Three are desperately trying to reduce. Also, some pent-up demand for their vehicles should remain those those holding off on their purchases and not buying from another automaker. Why produce vehicles at little to no profit margin? GM and even Ford, have enough cash to sit out for a strike. More so than UAW workers accustomed to living a high lifestyle, relative to their education and skill levels. Cerberus, too, wouldn't have bought a majority interest in Chrysler if they thought it wasn't worth a gamble. If they can hone expenses and labor costs, they will strive to remain in business. Otherwise, it's just a matter of sticking around for a few years and get what they can during the process. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 422 Registered: 02-2007 |
That whole system is so flawed it is beyond debate. "Strike pay"?? Think about that. These folks walked out of their jobs, without permission from their employer (who signs their paycheck) and they get paid for it? "Lay off rooms"?? We'll lay you off, but still keep you. We don't need you anymore at all, we'll pay you $135,000.00 to go home and stay there, oh and sign a paper saying you wont come back. It's ridiculous. The unions are killing these companies. The workers have bargained themselves out of a job. Try operating a business with those labor parameters. What the UAW conveniently sweeps under the rug is the auto companies are just businesses with one goal, profit. Its that simple. From the bottom up, the employees view, it all looks complex, stable and wealthy and they want their piece of the pie. From the other side looking out one can see how fragile it all really is. There were once about 60 car companies in the US, of that just a handful remain. They can and do go out of business. The benefits these UAW workers have are just absurd. And the images of overweight, obviously underworked strikers, slouching along with their picket signs is not resonating well with the rest of the country or world for that matter. It's like I've answered when asked about job security, "You'll have a job as long as we're profitable and thats up to you" | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 476 Registered: 05-2006 |
"There are thousands and thousands of Michiganders alone who would gladly take those jobs even at $10-$20/hour reduced pay and 1/2 the health benefits. They'd still be pretty good jobs." Yeah, like maybe these people....? http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070828/U PDATE/708280414 http://www.wxyz.com/content/ne ws/financialsurvival/story.asp x?content_id=a88f524d-6170-465 6-8d42-5cda66602a59 | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 451 Registered: 02-2006 |
Wouldn't GM just love to move those jobs to Mexico? This may be the excuse they have been looking for. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1300 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Strike Pay is paid for by the union, not the company. Strike Pay is one of the areas that "dues" go into. | ||
Sturge Member Username: Sturge Post Number: 116 Registered: 05-2007 |
Slash the pay of management and execs and they should be able to save lots of money. Thus increasing profits. Maybe the CEO should set an example. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1641 Registered: 08-2006 |
"I'm thinking NWA style firing of all the employees is in order. " I'd like to see a whole bunch of firing going down on the top floors of the Ren Cen, except for maybe Lutz, the rest of them are just hanging around drawing big salaries for driving a once wonderful company in to the dirt. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 423 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "Strike Pay is paid for by the union, not the company. Strike Pay is one of the areas that "dues" go into." And that money comes from where? The union would not exist without the company. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1642 Registered: 08-2006 |
"Wouldn't GM just love to move those jobs to Mexico? This may be the excuse they have been looking for." Really? So if a consumer wanted a US built car they'd have to buy a Toyota. BRILLIANT!! | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 4352 Registered: 11-2006 |
Fire the strikers and kill the unions. Rehire the workers at market wages and benefits after they leave the union never to return. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1643 Registered: 08-2006 |
CCbats, you know the legal fees involved with that would far exceed what keeping these people on the payroll would cost. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 4358 Registered: 11-2006 |
But the one time cost would eliminate perpetual aggravation and costs. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1301 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: From the workers themselves. From the money that they earned. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 424 Registered: 02-2007 |
Well there is two ways of looking at that. It all comes from the sale of cars, regardless of how it winds up in the employees hands. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 452 Registered: 02-2006 |
Cambrian, GM doesn't even make money selling cars in the U.S. However, they may if they use cheaper labor. Even if it means selling less cars. You also have to think outside of the Midwest. How many people in Florida, California, or Virginal for example are looking just for "Made in the U.S.A." cars? Not many. Michigan and a few other areas are the last strongholds for the big 3. If you ever travel out of state look around at a stop light and you won't see a lot of Fords, Chevys, or Dodges. and where does Toyota build those cars in the U.S? In non-union plants in the south. Do you think making Michigan a right to work state might have brought some of those jobs up here? I do. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1644 Registered: 08-2006 |
I've seen the love for Asian cars when I've travelled. The rappers made owning an American SUV a fad, and I believe the hardcore farm belt types are loyal to US brands, but yeah any where else? Especially those snobby east cost cities. I think with bad taste NAFTA, and the crappy Chinese quality of the products they send us, people will hopefully wake up. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 425 Registered: 02-2007 |
Brian, I agree. A company with the option of where to set up shop is going to go where they are not forced into higher cost labor. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 455 Registered: 02-2006 |
I think I may have misspoke. I think GM may have made a few hundred million in North America this year but generally they are making most of their money elsewhere. | ||
Deteamster Member Username: Deteamster Post Number: 48 Registered: 07-2007 |
Here's an idea, GM, instead of strangling the life out of the UAW, why not make cars that people actually want? Oh the Hummer, and the H2, and the H3, those were winners. Nothing like a big truck mutant thing that gets 7 feet to the gallon. Or a Cobalt, I'd really like one of those, if I were a eunuch. Cincy was on the right track...the point is, all the white collar idiots have been paid astronomical sums of money to screw the company up royally. It doesn't matter how many concessions you squeeze out of the workers. If you can't sell cars, you can't pay the goddamn janitor. I feel sorry for the UAW. They're working with the most back-assward, good-old-boy industry in the country. Guess what? Nobody in the UAW designed the Aztek. And everyone blames the workers... | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 457 Registered: 02-2006 |
Typical union response. (In whining voice) "Make cars people want". My response would be " you should have put the cars people did want together a little better so they didn't fall apart two days after they were drive off the lot. I think poor fit and finish pushed a lot of americans in to the arms of foreign auto makers. I agree that white collar workers make too much but I think you may agree that everyone from top to bottom makes too much. |
