  Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 959 Registered: 10-2006 |
A restaurant CEO is complaining that the casinos are stealing his employees by paying TOO MUCH MONEY! Can you believe the balls of this guy??? In preparation for its grand opening, MGM Grand restaurants have lured talented chefs, managers and staff from some of Detroit's best restaurants and hotels. "My biggest complaint is because of their profit structure in the casinos, they are coming in and inflating the job market as far as the pay that they are paying," said Joe Vicari, CEO of Andiamos." www.crainsdetroit.com | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 10373 Registered: 12-2003 |
Heh. Supply and demand. Is this guy a capitalist or NOT?! Does this mean the quality of food at Andiamos will go down?! | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5405 Registered: 08-2004 |
Unless I'm mistaken, this is the same guy that made millions (along with his partner) as the lawsuit happy guys who run the Freedom Hill concert venue. If memory serves me correctly... 1) he made millions fighting against Sterling Heights city government (under city manager Steve DuChene). 2) he's suing for millions more against Macomb County for holding up his sale of the Freedom Hill franchise to Palace Entertainments. 3) he's making millions more actually selling his Freedom Hill franchise to Palace Entertainments. And now he's crying because he has to spend some extra money to get good help.... boo-hoo. Since he's so good at it, maybe he should try suing the casinos!  (Message edited by Gistok on September 25, 2007) | ||
Spidergirl Member Username: Spidergirl Post Number: 313 Registered: 12-2004 |
These people tend to bust their ass at their jobs (the good ones anyway) and MGM is obviously looking for the best out there - there's no reason not to pay them and treat them as top notch employees. If others in the business were truly concerned, they would give their best employees an incentive to stick around. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2206 Registered: 06-2006 |
here's the article yvette is talking about http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0924/SUB/709240331 | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 2734 Registered: 10-2003 |
Next thing you know, Bobby Flay is going to show up in my backyard and challenge me to a Portabello Burger Throwdown. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2813 Registered: 06-2004 |
This is along the lines of what I worry about with the casinos - how much are they going to hurt our other, much nicer, performance venues? There's no way a fantastic, preferable, but stand alone, venue like Music Hall will be able to pay top performers what the casinos will. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 2199 Registered: 11-2004 |
It's great when people can make more at their job and get rewarded for being the best. But you should keep in mind that restaurants don't always have large margins on the food they sell, after accounting for cost of ingredients, labor and overhead. So when a casino, which doesn't necessarily have to have the restaurant be overly profitable, increases wages and other businesses have to raise their wages to keep a competitive workforce, it's the customer who ends up paying for it via higher meal prices. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 2521 Registered: 02-2007 |
It may be nice for Music Hall and others to bring in more off-beat entertainment, like symphony space in NYC used to | ||
Dhugger Member Username: Dhugger Post Number: 186 Registered: 03-2005 |
What is all this whining about employees getting better wages & benefits? At the casinos or the UAW workers for that matter. When top CEO's are making 500 times the wages of average workers don't you think an extra few dollars would help the little person. Remember a rising tide lifts all ships. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1441 Registered: 07-2004 |
Boo-effin-hoo. It's hilarious how free-marketeers start sobbing when "market forces" don't entirely favor them. There seems to be an inverse ratio: It seems the more ruthless they have been in the past (you know, "Tough shit. It's business. Don't like it: Walk. Lead, follow or get out of the way.") the more "victimized" they are when things don't go their way (same guy who says he's sick of people "playing the victim" rankles at the "injustice" of having to pay his workers a little more). That's a general statement, though. I don't know Vicari personally. And at least he has the balls to talk to the press and not hide behind a PR person. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3346 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't take issue with the casinos luring top restaurant workers away--it's the nature of the industry. But I thought part of the benefit of the casinos was to create NEW jobs. Every time I mention any sort of substitution effect on these forums, though, I get shouted down.... | ||
Motorcitydave Member Username: Motorcitydave Post Number: 101 Registered: 11-2004 |
Think of all the job opportunities it opens up for other culinary grads coming out of Schoolcraft, or for other experienced cooks/chefs in the area... or from out of state even that may now move here for work. More jobs is never a bad thing. Plus, having more up scale restaurants is just going to help out other up scale restaurants, because it will make downtown even more of a destination for avid diners. | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 755 Registered: 10-2003 |
What's to say the new guy at Andiamo won't be just as good as the old guy that went to the casino - a net gain in talent. Pay scale at Andiamo remains the same, just added another level of pay via casinos and now we have more chefs in town. | ||
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55 Post Number: 579 Registered: 09-2005 |
Joe Vicari, CEO of Andiamos - About 6 or 7 years ago, GM put out a policy of not allowing any free meals from vendors. If my memory is correct, this is the same guy who was bitching and moaning that "GM was out to ruin his business". (No mention by him of how, for decades, GM help MAKE his business due to the thousands of lunches and dinners purchased there.) This whiney guy must be a great boss to work for....... | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 427 Registered: 05-2004 |
I say, "learn to cook your own meals". You'll know what's going on in the kitchen plus it's a lot less expensive. Running a restaurant is a tough business and keeping good help is always a challenge. You have to pay to play. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 2739 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hey, they can hire those guys who won the Fox 2 contest to learn how to cook under the supervision of Andiamo's chefs. Bam, free training and everything. | ||
Motorcitydave Member Username: Motorcitydave Post Number: 103 Registered: 11-2004 |
Andiamos sucks anyway, $20 Ragu on a nice plate with a cloth napkin.... give me Roma or La Dolce Vita any day, a lot better food for better prices too. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4066 Registered: 10-2004 |
Just because somebody is in the private sector doesn't mean he favors competition. The Phone Company--remember those days?--was a monopoly in the private sector that did whatever it could to get the state and federal governments to see that they stayed that way. | ||
Conman Member Username: Conman Post Number: 40 Registered: 06-2006 |
Caribou Coffee in GP lost 2 or 3 employees to Starbucks/MGM casino because of the great pay and union benefits. Can you blame them? | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 917 Registered: 01-2005 |
Dialh4hipster hit it right on the head. I do know Joe Vicari and frequent his restaurants, which are excellent. He pays his staff very well. I think all he's saying is the casino's will probably run their restaurants at substantial losses, especially with respect to the # of comps, and they can subsidize those losses and the above market personnel costs where guys like Joe and other upscale restaurant owners can't. It's not easy to find talented people who can step in and operate a kitchen and other restaurant owners are going to have to go into the marketplace and pay. Prices will have to go up. Some good restaurants will inevitable fold because of lack of resources. That's life. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 918 Registered: 01-2005 |
Motorcitydave: It's clear you've never even been to an Andiamo restaurant based on the way you describe them. | ||
Motorcitydave Member Username: Motorcitydave Post Number: 104 Registered: 11-2004 |
I think restaurants are different than the Wal-Mart vs. Pop's General Store battle... people like to find the small or hidden elegant restaurant, and usually become pretty loyal to them rather than hit well known chef's places being franchised all over the country style restaurants... and will pay the extra $2-$5 to do so. | ||
Motorcitydave Member Username: Motorcitydave Post Number: 105 Registered: 11-2004 |
3rdworldcity, Yes I've eaten there a few times, and yes, they are good (I was exaggerating with the ragu comment), but I prefer others to it. I was not really impressed with Andiamos for the prices, thats all. (Message edited by motorcitydave on September 25, 2007) | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2208 Registered: 06-2006 |
3rdworld: Thanks for commenting in this thread. After reading the article, I understood what Mr. Vicari's complaint was but didn't know how to phrase it so everyone would understand. Anyone in his shoes would not be thrilled about having to compete with places that are able to throw money around with no regard for the bottom line. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2209 Registered: 06-2006 |
Andiamos is a really nice chain, but it isn't really fair to compare them to a place like Roma that has the best pasta sauce in the world....after all, Roma got a 100 year head start! | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4626 Registered: 10-2003 |
It's hard to make the free market forces argument with the casinos since they are essentially a state-sanctioned monopoly. There are three casino licenses in metro Detroit and only three casino licenses. The casinos don't operate in anything that truly resembles a free market so why should their indirect competitors be subjected to market forces that the casinos are exempted from? That said, the restaurant industry did extract a a regulation that prevent casinos from doing drink comps so there is plenty of gray areas here. It's a real millionaires vs. billionaires battle. | ||
Monahan568 Member Username: Monahan568 Post Number: 226 Registered: 04-2004 |
"Anyone in his shoes would not be thrilled about having to compete with places that are able to throw money around with no regard for the bottom line". I think the same can be said for the detroit hotel market | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4971 Registered: 10-2003 |
Andiamos has good food, but the lowest employees are treated like shit. I worked there in 10th grade for about 3 weeks. I was working as kitchen help with these 50-year old off-the-boat Albanian guys that worked 80 hours a week. The managers had the whole guido douche vibe going on. Fuck them. | ||
Detroitrulez Member Username: Detroitrulez Post Number: 427 Registered: 12-2006 |
3WC....I didn't know they had Andiamo's in Texas. Maybe you're thinking of Luby's? | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 965 Registered: 10-2006 |
So we are supposed to feel bad about a multi-millionaire complaining that his staff is getting a 30% raise? Geez, I am sooo sorry that his employees are getting a raise and job promotions. We really oughta do something about that! | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1442 Registered: 07-2004 |
Talk about a saturated market! Italian food in metro Detroit? For a market this competitive, to complain at all seems odd. Find a less competitive business. I mean, enough with the pasta already. I was raised on Italian food and sometimes I feel like a meatball or gnocci will fall out of my ear. To drift farther away from the topic, I think Italian-Americans ruined Italian food, especially with this more-is-more philosophy of gut-busting baskets of bread, bowls of pasta, sauce thick with meat, deep-fried bread snacks dusted with Gordon's Food Service Parmesan. Bleccch. This kind of culinary bounty, for a second-generation family, even back in the 1970s, was a once-a-week thing. The rest of the week was thin little soups and good bread. Besides, the whole joy of eating is the joy of good company and time to share it. Americans, and many Italian-Americans, miss the point. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 2536 Registered: 02-2007 |
New talent is always a good thing. give the hard working hospitality folks a chance to up their living standards. of course, some people will stay where they are appreciated or treated well by management rather than take money at a place that is indifferent or worse. now to address, briefly, another issue mentioned briefly: Starbucks is garbage. low-grade beans roasted beyond recognition. of the chains, caribou and coffee beanery do a much better job of roasting and bean selection. I buy green from growers i'm familiar with, and roast my own, but when I can't do that, the other two chains are ok (except they all ruin sumatran beans) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10243 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't feel bad for Mr. Vicari but it can't be disputed that he has added something to dining in Metro Detroit and probably employs a hell of a lot more people than the vast majority here. He worked hard, made a sizeable chain out of a single restaurant. I don't have a ton of sympathy for him but I respect what he has accomplished and what he brings to Metro Detroit dining. | ||
Monahan568 Member Username: Monahan568 Post Number: 227 Registered: 04-2004 |
yvette248 thats right the rich M-FER has so much every employee should get a little extra. let me ask you this if he gets into a lawsuit should the employees kick in some money to help settle it? | ||
Motorcitydave Member Username: Motorcitydave Post Number: 106 Registered: 11-2004 |
Speaking of, did anyone else notice that the restaurant going in the Madison Theater building is now going to be Italian cuisine instead of Mediterranean.... is anyone else as bummed as I am? I was looking forward to having Mediterranean restaurant there... actually, I think before the sign in the window read Mediterranean, it read French Bistro... does this mean that the chefs keep quitting before the restaurant even opens?...lol. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1443 Registered: 07-2004 |
MCD: Haha. That's a funny theory! I do like Mediterranean food. Someplace like Assaggi (now, actually, I wish I had a less expensive example) does it right: Cherry-picking from Spain all the way around to Morocco. And places that are "Mediterranean" usually have smaller portions and less meat. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5406 Registered: 08-2004 |
I too have been wondering about how other Detroit entertainment venues will be doing once the Casinos open permanent entertainment space. I've heard that MotorCity and Greektown will have something like 1,200 seat venues, but haven't heard a peep out of what MGM is doing venue wise. MotorCity will likely steer larger performances to the Fox (and likely soon the Masonic). The Filmore (State) will be filled by Live Nation. The Opera House (with the largest stage in the midwest) will continue to do OK, especially with large scale broadway shows like the Lion King in addition to its' current Opera and Dance repertoire. Nederlander will likely continue shows that are not too big to the Fisher. That leaves Music Hall as someone already mentioned. Perhaps their proximity to the new Paridise Valley will continue to bring African-American entertainment to that venue. But I am curious to see what "entertainment venues" the casinos will have. Haven't seen a single architectural rendering of what those spaces will be like. Will it just be convention space used as entertainment, or something more intimate, such as a theatre setting? | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 919 Registered: 01-2005 |
Detroitrulez: Funny. If you know Luby's you've been there. (Luby's is a cafeteria like the one that used to be in the Basement of the Penobscot; remember, the little old lady servers acted like lightening would strike them if they put one too many peas in the bowl.) Actually,I wish there were an Andiamo in TX, at least where I go all the time. Nothing but fast food chains and regional places like Cheddars. I bitch about it all the time. Three or four years ago I went to the office and one of the guys said: "Well, we've got what you've been waiting for, a great new Italian Restaurant. It's over priced and hard to get in the door, but's it's the bes Italian food you can find." It was an Olive Garden. Detroit is blessed w/ great Italian restaurants, including, of course, Roma. My wife went into labor there once with one of our kids. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5408 Registered: 08-2004 |
3WC... I hope you weren't breaking bread and then her water broke...  I bet the topic comes up every time you visit Roma with your wife... although it's not quite like a romantic "where you had your first date" type of discussion! At least you were near Hutzel Hospital! | ||
Jazzstage Member Username: Jazzstage Post Number: 119 Registered: 08-2007 |
Anyone remember Aldos at 7 and Kelly? It is hard to believe that an expensive restaurant was at the end of my old Detroit street. Last I heard, Chef Aldo Ottaviani was the master chef for Andiamo's. | ||
Motorcitydave Member Username: Motorcitydave Post Number: 107 Registered: 11-2004 |
Detroitnerd, Speaking of Moroccan food, is there any Moroccan Restaurants any where in the Detroit area? I know of places that offer a dish or 2, but not an actual Moroccan restaurant. Anyone know of any? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1703 Registered: 04-2006 |
I'd feel sorry, but... the casinos aren't exactly saturating the metro market with above market rate jobs. There will be at most what, 9 new restaurants? You'd find 9 upscale restaurants in one block in some cities... | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1446 Registered: 07-2004 |
Motorcity: Honestly, I can't think of one offhand. But Israeli cuisine often uses Moroccan treatments. Maybe Yossi's would have a near hit for you? | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 163 Registered: 04-2007 |
THEY TOOK R JOBS!•• | ||
Applesauce Member Username: Applesauce Post Number: 89 Registered: 06-2007 |
I worked for Joe years ago, & my wife worked for (him) one of his restaurants for 10 years. He doesnt pay well, & never treated the employees very well. If you had a family issue & needed time off, it was tough shit if you didnt find a replacement. He used to make them stay late to wait on his drunk buddies, with little or no compensation & knowing damn well these people had families to get home to. I applaud the ones that left for better pay, working conditions, & maybe some freakin' insurance! | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4980 Registered: 10-2003 |
Chef Aldo is the one who made Andiamos what it is. It is his recipes that you eat when dining at Vicari's places! | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2217 Registered: 06-2006 |
Here's a Crain's article on the same topic. It breaks down the staff changes Local restaurants and hotels have lost some of their best people to Detroit's new casino restaurants and hotels: - Andiamo: A half-dozen chefs. - Morton's, The steak house in Troy: General manager Todd Shepherd. - Tribute: Executive Chef Don Yamauchi, two sous chefs and a wine steward. - The Whitney: Two cooks. - Seldom Blues: A half-dozen waiters and waitresses. - The Ritz-Carlton, Dearborn: About 20 hospitality staff members. - The Townsend Hotel in Birmingham: Two managers. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0924/SUB/709240330 | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2218 Registered: 06-2006 |
So how much are these people making, anyway? I've never worked at a restaurant before and am curious what these people are pulling in. To anyone with knowledge of the restaurant business, what do you think these people were making before they changed jobs and what is your best guess as to what they are making now? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1454 Registered: 07-2004 |
Haha. Reminds me of those "Tom the Dancing Bug" cartoons where the rich dog gets angry at "Lucky Ducky!" |
