  Fattonyp Member Username: Fattonyp Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2007 |
Hi Everyone, I am making a computer game set in Detroit during the late 1940s towards the 50s. I have been searching this site and a few others for photos of buildings and streets of Detroit and there is some pure gold here. The target is to recreate the entire city of Detroit. Eventually. I am starting with Downtown, and working outwards. Problem is that I cant find any street maps of Detroit, maps from the 40s, which show buildings, residential areas, business and industrial zones, roads etc. I found a really nice virtual map of modern detroit, but cant find a map of detroit from the 40s. I know they exist, because, well they must, surely. Does anyone have any maps, street maps, road maps, any maps of detroit from the 40s, they could help me out with? =) would be greatly appreciated. Also if anyone has any photos or links or anything whatsoever that could help this project that would be great. I know the post is a bit all over the place, and thanks for taking the time to read it. I can tell all you guys n gals are passionate about Detroit so hoping that a few of you out there can help with this ambitious project. Thanks again. Tony | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4096 Registered: 10-2004 |
Somehow, I think that the Monopoly creators beat you to the concept when they developed their game during the Great Depression in or near Atlantic City. | ||
Fattonyp Member Username: Fattonyp Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2007 |
Im not too sure that monopoly is an accurate representation of a city =) | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1451 Registered: 07-2004 |
I bought a hotel on Hastings Street. You owe me $53. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 2813 Registered: 10-2003 |
Fattony, do some digging around in the HOF archives. There's plenty of pictures and maps to be found in there. Do some searches here too. Start there first, then maybe we can help you fill in what's missing. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 2617 Registered: 02-2007 |
Have you taken a trip to the Historical Museum & the main library? | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 277 Registered: 04-2006 |
Sorry I can't really help you, but I am curious about two things: Why did you choose to set it in the 40s? Is there anything specific about that time period that is conducive to what you're trying to do with the game? And also, what is the object/style of the game? Regardless, cool idea. | ||
Waz Member Username: Waz Post Number: 202 Registered: 11-2006 |
Old maps frequently show up on ebay. And they're relatively cheap, too. Give that a try. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1453 Registered: 07-2004 |
FROM DETROIT LIFE: "I'm going to skip chef's school and HR training and go right into work at the car wash." FROM METALSHIP: "You sunk my iron freighter!" FROM DETROPOLY: "You get Kwame's contract to handle parking fines. Collect all the money in the free parking space. Now pistol-whip the person to your right." FROM DETROIT MOUSE TRAP: "Put the Joe Louis Fist in a position to demolish the Statler hotel." FROM DETROIT TWENTY QUESTIONS: "Do you know who the fuck I am?" | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4097 Registered: 10-2004 |
The new game's "water works" = "Water gushing in basements across Detroit" | ||
Fattonyp Member Username: Fattonyp Post Number: 4 Registered: 09-2007 |
Hi, Thanks I tried searching for maps but couldnt find any street maps. i found maps of proposed highways and train systems. Unfortunately I am in Europe and cant visit directly so have to do all my searches online. The game an online organised crime game. The game is set in the happy time of 1940s as its one of the more interesting times of its History. And to be honest, buildings and cars from the 40s do look amazing. And everyone dressed in style =) I hadnt thought of Ebay at all, I was too busy googling. Thanks for that, I will search =) -Tony | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 3352 Registered: 12-2005 |
Fattonyp, a 1940's Detroit could be built in 3-D virtual reality using http://www.activeworlds.com/. Maybe it wouldn't meet your specific needs but I thought I'd mention it anyway. | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1897 Registered: 04-2005 |
I uploaded a scan from a 1930s map of Detroit onto Picasa. These are large jpegs, totalling 51 Mb. Use the download link on the right if you want the full size jpeg. http://picasaweb.google.com/Ho rnwrecker/1930sDetroitMap | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4101 Registered: 10-2004 |
I like the Picasa, as it fills in a number of missing railroad tracks that were present eighty years ago. | ||
Aarne_frobom Member Username: Aarne_frobom Post Number: 63 Registered: 10-2005 |
I don't know where you'd find one - other than in my map file in my basement - but I have a United States Coast and Geodetic Survey topographic map of Detroit from around 1955. I like this map because it shows Detroit's physical plant at the height of the city's industrial power, with all the old factories showing, and before many of the freeways were built. This is an odd topo map: it has the same artwork and is at the same scale as the usual 7-1/2-minute quadrangle maps, but it covers the entire City of Detroit on two outsize sheets, each covering about four quadrangles. I have never seen another topographic map in this format. I don't know if USGS would have any record of this old map. Of course, even the usual small-size topo maps from this period might do for your purpose. | ||
Clermont Member Username: Clermont Post Number: 7 Registered: 09-2007 |
you might try city of detroit engineering dept. they are currently responsible for the mapping of streets. | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 164 Registered: 04-2007 |
Is this a game I will be able to purchase eventually? if so you have at least one buyer here. Oh, and BTW Dabirch, I have Oakley's and love riding my jetski. Don't stereotype me. | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1898 Registered: 04-2005 |
Here's a link to the Det Edison aerial survey photos at WSU/culma, starting in 1949: http://techtools.culma.wayne.e du/media/low_res/aerial_photos /index.htm About the only thing missing from the map that I posted in the link above, is the Detroit Industrial Highway (future I-94). I think it ended around Michigan Ave, or McGraw back then, but I might be wrong. The aerials will also show you the construction of the Edsel Ford/I-94 freeway. | ||
Krhn313 Member Username: Krhn313 Post Number: 7 Registered: 07-2007 |
There totally needs to be a GTA: Detroit..... and set it over the course of a few decades 1960-1990. You could develop a great story around historical events. 1984, with the baseball riot and devil's night would be wild.  | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 204 Registered: 08-2006 |
Fattonyp, the Map Library at the University of Michigan has street and zoning maps from 1940s Detroit. | ||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 575 Registered: 03-2005 |
The Baist Real Estate Atlases of the 1920's and before, Sanborn Insurance maps and the other reference materails in The Burton Historical Collection of the Detroit Public Library as well as their Polk's City Directories and Bressers crisscross telephoone directories should be most helpful. Bob Cosgrove | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 439 Registered: 08-2007 |
Tony, This sounds like quite an endeavor. I imagine it would help to have maps that are already digitized? Many of the historical collections mentioned are fragile, so sometimes the library will not allow photocopying. How were you planning to digitize? I would check online collections first. The Sanborn maps are online through UM and you can access them as a guest. http://www.lib.umich.edu/mapli b/ You probably know the "Virtual Motor City" of images through WSU. It's accessible by decade: http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/ i/image/image-idx?sid=c8f61bfe ff107a64e73694acaa8382f4;page=index;c=vmc | ||
Fattonyp Member Username: Fattonyp Post Number: 5 Registered: 09-2007 |
thanks guys, this stuff is gold. And yep the game will be able to be purchased. It will be an online virtual world of 1940s Detroit. The AI is a killer to make also, originally I was hoping to have each NPC as a living person, going to work, restaurants, home, movies, (like sims) but there were over 1million people in Detroit in the 40s so that makes it an impossible task. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1459 Registered: 07-2004 |
There are some detailed maps in the Detroit Master Plan 1945 that show where people worked, what parts of the city they were from, traffic patterns, most crowded roads, etc. Seems like the kind of statistics that could be reverse-engineered for your purposes. | ||
Fattonyp Member Username: Fattonyp Post Number: 6 Registered: 09-2007 |
Hi Detroitnerd, Is this the one you mean? http://www.detroitrising.com/1 945plan.htm I have been trying to find larger images in more detail to see them clearer. I just bought a map on ebay also, waiting for it to arrive. Unfortunately the maps dont show the buildings, which were appartments, which were shops, how many buildings per 'block'. If I was living in Detroit, it would be a lot easier hehe. I found this: http://www.detroit2005.com/map o/main_area.html which is very good. But its only modern detroit, one of those from the 40s would have been perfect. I think the majority of the buildings and block will have to be 'generic' buildings and blocks laid out from the time period, with key historical buildings breaking up the map. Such as Statler etc. | ||
Fattonyp Member Username: Fattonyp Post Number: 7 Registered: 09-2007 |
hehe i think im becoming quite familiar with Detroit's Downtown roads, i even dreamt of them last night which was scary. I am a bit confused by the streetcar/tram/coach system. I can see here: http://www.hellodetroit.com/Im ages/Buildings/652006Fort-Stre et-1942.jpg West Fort Street leading to Shelby street (im guessing) has the tram lines in the road (and the road is cobbled on the right). The map of Detroit from the 30s shows that there are coach and streetcar lines all the way down Fort Street past 2nd Avenue, but this picture of 2nd Avenue during the 40s doesnt have tramlines in the road. The road is 6 lanes wide which looks like where 2nd Avenue would link up with West Fort Street. http://www.hellodetroit.com/Im ages/Buildings/652006Second-av enue-1942.jpg Did the streetcar lanes get removed during the 40s all the way down West Fort Street? This is the city hall http://www.hellodetroit.com/Im ages/Buildings/652006City-hall -1942.jpg you can see Woodward and Fort Street, but still cant see any tram lines. this really is confusing, should I just not have any streetcar/tram lines on the roads at all? | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 457 Registered: 08-2007 |
There are lots of experts out here on this; have you tried the forum's archive search? This book may help: Detroit's Street Railways Vol. 2, 1922-1956 (Bulletin 120) by Jack E. Schramm | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3495 Registered: 10-2003 |
Your picture of 2nd Avenue is from the New Center area. There never were tracks on 2nd except for maybe one block near the river. 3rd Avenue had rails from downtown to Holden. The photo of city hall is too blurry to see the tracks, however you can make out the overhead lines. During the early 1940s there were street car tracks on all of the major arteries downtown, plus parts of: 3rd Avenue, Shelby, Griswold, Clifford, Broadway, Adams, Monroe, Farmer, Randolph, State, and a few others as well. I don't know if Detroitnerd was thinking of the same plan as in your link - that was a transit plan prepared for the city in 1945. See: https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/6790/43221.html?11608452 87 Also: https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/6790/60222.html?11882494 35 | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 168 Registered: 04-2007 |
Detroit would be perfect for GTA. There's real crime, blight, drugs, corrupt government, racial tension, white suburbs. Forget GTA4, welcome to GTA Detroit | ||
Collective Member Username: Collective Post Number: 346 Registered: 11-2003 |
Fattonyp - Are you receiving any support from Detroit's City officials? If not lets talk. Also, how far into your game development are you? I might be interested in talking to you about getting involved financially or in other forms of support. e-mail me at ecedo @ braingainmarketing . com | ||
Fattonyp Member Username: Fattonyp Post Number: 8 Registered: 09-2007 |
Thanks guys, I have looked at the maps and info such as: https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/6790/43226.jpg But they are really small, even at the website that these images were sourced from. I tried eBay. Im still waiting for one map to arrive in the post. I see lots of 'express ways' coach and 'car' routes along the roads in red lines normally. But they dont have a distinction between buses or street cars on these maps i dont think. Oh Kslice, forget GTA. This will be better hehe. This project is just so big it will make GTA seem like kindergarden. Eventually the game will be more like 'Second Life' or 'Sims Online' set in 1940s Detroit. But at the start it will be centered around the Mafia and other organised Crime in Detroit. We have done a lot of design work for the police too. Think of that as the first expansion pack. Instead of everyone trying to be criminals in the game like GTA, people will also be able to be police men and try and clean up the streets. The Final stages for development will allow for players to be anyone, so you could just enjoy running your own shop or business in 1940s Detroit. Collective, thanks =) I will mail you. We have got no support, financial or otherwise from any City official from Detroit. But we are getting a lot of support from you guys, with information on this thread. Thanks a lot. You guys are a life saver. |
