  Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 436 Registered: 08-2007 |
Any other teachers out there receiving ominous warnings that their districts might shut down based on state "crisis"? We were told to expect pay only through October 31st, and I work in a ritzy suburb. How is DPS handling this? (Message edited by Oakmangirl on September 28, 2007) | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 1226 Registered: 04-2007 |
Shoot, you'll have to just swing right through | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1163 Registered: 06-2006 |
No word from DPS on this yet, although our pay is never right and they've missed paying us more than one check in prior years. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 437 Registered: 08-2007 |
Detroitteacher, That unreliable pay must be a "joy" to deal with. Our district is using the lack of a 2008 state budget as rationale for a possible imminent shutdown, but it seems like our budget for 2007 would cover us through the end of the year. I suspect there's a little political posturing going on.... | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6605 Registered: 02-2004 |
State shutdown means kids won't get their education. We're are headed back to the stone age. | ||
Newport1128 Member Username: Newport1128 Post Number: 135 Registered: 05-2007 |
I heard a local school district official on the radio the other day. He said that if the state does not send its state aid payments to his school district, that they could make it through perhaps one payday using their reserve funds, but wouldn't have enough for a second payday. | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 789 Registered: 10-2003 |
From michigan.gov: EDUCATION 1. Will my child's school still be open? Public Schools are not required to close during a state government shutdown. If the shutdown continues for more than 16 days, state aid payments to schools will be delayed. This delay may force some local schools to limit programs or transportation or cancel school altogether. Your local school district will communicate their plan to parents directly in that event. 2. Will state universities or community colleges close? State universities and community colleges are not required to close during a government shutdown. If the shutdown continues for more than 21 days, state aid payments to higher education institutions will be delayed. This delay may force some community colleges or universities to limit or cancel classes or activities. Those decisions will be made and communicated by the individual schools. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9845 Registered: 10-2003 |
Warren Consolidated is hearing that the schools could be down. I say shut the whole state down and then people will realize what true chaos is. This is why borrowing from future generations is a foolish idea. Now that the state is about to be broke. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 438 Registered: 08-2007 |
Alsodave, Thanks for citing the official info that I was too lazy to seek. ;-) As for my district, we're *negotiating* for a new contract, so I think their threat to close may partly be a strong arm tactic. | ||
Reddog289 Member Username: Reddog289 Post Number: 13 Registered: 08-2007 |
i work/live by my two schools i work at,i guess i,d still hear and see all the kids running loose, doesnt sound like a great [vacation]to me. | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 477 Registered: 10-2003 |
My district has reserve funds to stay open for one month. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1758 Registered: 10-2006 |
The state school district revenue sharing checks are supposed to come out from the state on October 22nd. If no one at the state level is working = no payments to school districts. "All Department of Education operations will shut down, except for the Michigan School for the Deaf. If Department of Education employees have not returned to work by mid-October, the state school aid payment due on October 22 will not be made." http://www.wxyz.com/news/story .aspx?content_id=d73ed92a-c49b -477c-9342-27f8e32ad5c0 | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 443 Registered: 08-2007 |
^Looks like I might be selling Streetwise.... | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 445 Registered: 08-2007 |
Whew! I could handle no salary; I feared being taunted by Susanarosa. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 810 Registered: 12-2006 |
School districts are allowed to borrow money, which includes short-term borrowing to handle contingencies of this sort. Unfortunately, in Michigan many districts (but not all) have reached their capacity for such borrowing. So if it comes down to a state shutdown, some districts would have to close after a short time, but many would not. Each district has the obligation to communicate to its employees and the parents of the children as to what its situation is. That's not a legal obligation, just the "ought to" kind. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1165 Registered: 06-2006 |
Well DPS doesn't do "ought to", moral type obligations so no one will know for sure until the day it happens. While I could use a vacation (to get caught up with grading) I don't want to see the kids out of school for any length of time. On the other hand, I can't survive without my pay. If we worked for no pay (to be paid back, of course), DPS would NEVER pay us back or it would take them years to repay us. I am still waiting on the other 3 days pay they borrowed from us a few years back and that was supposed to be paid back already. Damned if we do, damned if we don't... | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1768 Registered: 10-2006 |
"to be paid back, of course" Doubtful that any employees laid off as a result of the state budget shutdown would get any back pay at any point. If you aren't 'working,' you won't get paid for not 'working.' Unless of course you are in a union. Then that would bring a whole other unnecessary issue up again. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 447 Registered: 08-2007 |
Most teachers are in unions...weak, ineffectual ones, so we should all receive retroactive pay. Back to the regular discussion. | ||
Eec Member Username: Eec Post Number: 162 Registered: 06-2007 |
If we're to believe the teachers on this board (and I see no reason not to, as what they're saying makes sense), they WILL be working even if they don't go into school for a few days, by planning and grading. I have no problem paying them. I DO think that we should dock the politicians' pay for the time they've wasted trying to avoid raising taxes when that's clearly the only answer, most services and non-elected positions already having been pared back further than is prudent. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1166 Registered: 06-2006 |
They have to pay us because we'll be working longer into the year. Kids must be in school a certain amount of days. They'll extend the school year. However, when they did that before they never paid us for the time we worked. When we were on strike last year, they had us work longer into June and still kept our pay for a month (we missed 2 checks we never got back). | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 478 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://new.oakland.k12.mi.us/E mployment/OaklandHumanResource sConsortium/tabid/146/Default. aspx | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 454 Registered: 08-2007 |
Cris, Most teachers know of this site. Truth is many schools don't even post their openings here. Truth is many/most OC schools don't give credit for experience; they expect you to take a pay cut of 10k or more. Can you afford that? After x number of years in service we end up in golden handcuffs. | ||
Chuckjav Member Username: Chuckjav Post Number: 142 Registered: 09-2007 |
Same is true of similar Consortium web site in Dayton, Ohio. In many (if not most) cases, the site is nothing more than a "clearinghouse" for school districts wanting to give the appearance of following state & federal equal opportunity guidelines. A very convenient farce for the human resources folk. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 456 Registered: 08-2007 |
Right on, Chuckjav; it really depends on 6 degrees of separation from someone important. What makes it worse is if you spend 5 hours answering 18 sections of questions and uploading 10 documents. What a farce! | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 479 Registered: 10-2003 |
My point in posting that link was that Detroitteacher could go elsewhere and actually receive a paycheck in exchange for her work. Actually, I did get my job through that consortium back in 2000. I'd put my resume on it without really expecting anything, and promptly forgot about it. Then one day I got a call from a principal at one of the schools in the consortium, asking if I was still interested in a job. I left my position in a different school district, where I had been for three years, to take this one. In my case they gave me credit on the salary scale for my previous experience, but I know that this is rare. Yes, it's true-- it helps very much to know somebody. But it's not a requirement. I can tell you that firsthand from conversations with administrators looking to fill positions. Sometimes it's a matter of being in the right place at the right time. In my district, long-term subs seem to get hired into full-time positions fairly often. As far as equal opportunity guidelines, many of the OC schools are very anxious to hire minorities. (Message edited by cris on October 01, 2007) | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 458 Registered: 08-2007 |
I understand, Cris, but it sounds like Detroitteacher is quite experienced and that can sometimes *trap* a person due to salary. I'm glad the OHRC worked for you. I really wish we had a statewide system; have you heard of MI REAP? www.mireap.net No one seems to use it which baffles me. | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 480 Registered: 10-2003 |
I might be mixing Detroitteacher up with someone else, but I think I remember that she's actually pretty young, which wouldn't put her that high on the pay scale. I do know exactly what you mean about salary-- I could never leave my current job without taking a big financial hit, either. I'll be there until I retire. Get out now, Detroitteacher, before it's too late ;-) | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 481 Registered: 10-2003 |
That's the first time I ever saw the MI REAP site. Definitely a good idea! | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1168 Registered: 06-2006 |
Cris: I am at the top of the pay scale. I've been with DPS for 11 years. I hit the top this year, although they still aren't paying me at the appropriate rate of pay. | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 482 Registered: 10-2003 |
Oh, sorry DT!! For some reason I thought you were just a few years out of college. I must have been thinking of another Detroit teacher who has posted here sometime in the past. Maybe it was English. At any rate, they're lucky to have you-- you seem very dedicated to your kids. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1170 Registered: 06-2006 |
It may be me you are thinking of since I am still IN college (working on my 3rd Master's). | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 480 Registered: 08-2007 |
DT, Why not go for the PhD? or EdD? | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1171 Registered: 06-2006 |
I was thinking about the Ed Specialist. I really don't have any use for a Doctorate since it won't help me advance in what I really want to do. I want to stay in the classroom, don't plan on teaching at the university level, and it won't boost my pay at all. I've probably put in enough work and hours to qualify for the EdD, though. Was thinking about law school next to specialize in Special Ed law. Not sure what my next step will be... | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 486 Registered: 08-2007 |
Personally and professionally, if I may be so bold, I think that with all the credits you'll earn an EdD makes more sense; in the long run it'll give you way more options and seems a more natural complement to a JD. At the very least, your little charges will have to address you as "Dr. -". How will a third MA assist you in the classroom or substantially boost your pay? Besides it sounds like you'd make a great superintendent of DPS! | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1172 Registered: 06-2006 |
AGH! No, I DO NOT want to be CEO of DPS...ever! My 1st Master's is in Teaching and Learning, the 2nd is in LD, and the 3rd will be in Autism Spectrum Disorders. So all 3 Master's are helping me in the classroom, all useful and expanding my employability. I'm just not sure where I am headed next with my education. I do know I'll continue with classes, so I just may go for the EdD. | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 483 Registered: 10-2003 |
My (first and only) Master's is in LD, too. I'm trying to decide what to work on for my second Master's. I've taken some fairly random classes just to keep current on my teaching certificate, but need to choose a Master's program because I'll get a pay boost once I've earned 30 graduate credits past my MA. Not a big pay boost, of course... but since I have to earn the credits anyway they may as well be in a program. I've thought about ASD. I've thought about special ed law, too. Maybe I'll see you in class someday. Since going into special ed, I haven't been able to go back into general ed teaching because of the shortage in this field. I do enjoy working with these students, though. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1176 Registered: 06-2006 |
They are more into mainstreaming/inclusion now so I am still gen ed but I have a good mix of special ed and gen ed in my classes (which I love). I'd love to stay status quo which is why, I guess, I haven't applied or let anyone know I have a Master's in LD (they still think I am just working on it). | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 495 Registered: 08-2007 |
DT, You could still earn a PhD in the specialty area but give yourself more options. If things become too unbearable then you could transition into teaching at the college level. | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 485 Registered: 10-2003 |
They probably filter as many special ed kids as possible into your classes even if they only know that you are studying LD. The spec ed teachers know which gen ed teachers are going to be the most willing to work with our kids. Most of my students are included into regular classes, but we still have to have enough special ed certified teachers to carry them on our caseloads per federal requirements. We team-teach in the classes that have large numbers of special ed kids, we teach resource room classes, and we do massive piles of paperwork related to testing, IEPs, medicaid, and general documentation. I love the kids but I hate the paperwork. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1177 Registered: 06-2006 |
I could teach at a college level with my Master's degrees. It's not something I want to do, I enjoy teaching my kids. | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 1146 Registered: 02-2007 |
dt ...I know if my kids were lucky enough to have you as a teacher it would be great..your dedication is very wonderful...think of a counseling degree form wsu in rehabilitation it balances out SE really nicely...and helps with transition issues... | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1178 Registered: 06-2006 |
Thanks, Gibran. I have no desire to go into counseling...I enjoy what I do and have no desire to leave the classroom. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1219 Registered: 11-2003 |
Which suburb is "ritzy"? Hahaha. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 497 Registered: 08-2007 |
Sorry, DT to pile on the unsolicited career advice. East_Detroit, my district suburb is really a Stepford Village. Many trophy wives and husbands; many more ostentatious displays of wealth in the form of castle-like McMansions built right on busy streets. The men all use mousse in their neatly coiffed hair; the women all order "active wear" from Title Nine. Average IQ of our third graders is 120. Compared to where I grew up, it's "ritzy". | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 494 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm guessing Northville. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 501 Registered: 08-2007 |
Cris, What makes you guess Northville? It could be Plymouth...that's pretty much it. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1179 Registered: 06-2006 |
Oak, no need to apologize. Most folks think Detroit teachers are unhappy and hate their jobs. For some, that is the case. It's just not the case with me. I hate the red tape and lack of books (yes, the news stories are all true) and oversized classes but I wouldn't give up my kids. DPS kids need good teachers and as long as I can teach, I'll teach where I'm at. The positives (the kids) far outweigh the negatives. | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 496 Registered: 10-2003 |
I used to spend too much time in Northville. DT, it is all about the kids, isn't it? When I go home feeling like it was a great day--and it often is a great day, if not an exhausting one-- it is always because of the kids. There is very little office politicking, etc when you are a teacher. I think those of us who teach in districts outside Detroit are just kind of appalled when we read some of the things you describe... 85 kids to a class, working without pay... and wonder why you stay. But your answer-- the kids-- pretty much sums it up. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 502 Registered: 08-2007 |
Most folks think Detroit teachers are unhappy and hate their jobs. I honestly wasn't thinking that at all. I realized that I was projecting my own unrealized ambitions and in the process not really "hearing" you. As for working under less affluent conditions, there's a lot to be said for being needed. I used to teach in a more working class district, and I felt more a role model, less peripheral. I have far fewer behavior issues now, but I feel less a connection to the kids. No matter where one teaches though, there's nothing more rewarding than that "aha" moment when a kid gets it. Cris, guess I need to learn a little subtlety. ;-) |
