 
Eric
Member
Username: Eric
Post Number: 941
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 8:23 pm: |    |
He didn't commit a crime? How stupid are you? Attempted robbery IS a crime, the second he pulled that gun to rob he committed a crime |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 112
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 8:32 pm: | |
"his of course is false. I never said either of these things. Add liar to the list."
"People like me are paying the taxes to keep the baby factories in the ghetto going. If we die off, what happens to them?"
^^^Is that not what you said? I just paraphrased it. I'm adding Selfish Middle Man to your list.
"He didn't commit a crime? How stupid are you? Attempted robbery IS a crime, the second he pulled that gun to rob he committed a crime"
Eric, morally, did the suburbanite have the right to shoot and kill the so called perp? As stressed by others, if the suburbanite was so giddy to use a weapon to defend himself, he could have at least injured the perp and handled it differently. Chances are, the perp would not have fought back after being injured enough. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3139
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 8:35 pm: | |
quote:Is that not what you said? I just paraphrased it. I'm adding Selfish Middle Man to your list.
I didn't see anything in that quote about not caring about people that are in a coma or feeling sorry for rich people. I am not rich BTW, I need every dime I can get for MY family.
quote:Chances are, the perp would not have fought back after being injured enough.
Like you would know. That is not for you to decide, they guy at the scene was outnumbered and was being threatened with a gun and he made a decision that probably saved his life. One less thug was the result. |
Atwater
Member
Username: Atwater
Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 8:36 pm: | |
quote:OMG! NOW you want to talk about the loss of human life. What about the person that loss his life in this Carjacking incident??? I don't see you all feeling sorry for him. In reality, he didn't even commit a crime (yet).
First of all, yes, he DID commit a crime.. and second of all, while I may feel bad for the carjacker depending upon whatever situations he has going in his life, as soon as he commits a violent crime I stop feeling sorry for him and start wanting him gone (out of society). I don't care whether he's black or white or green, or whether he grew up poor or rich or whatever, if he's a menace to society, he shouldn't be here. And as it's been said, there are too many people in the jails so.. personally, I'm glad he was killed. It's sad for his family, but, they weren't innocent in this either. They raised him, and if they knew what he was like, they should have dealt with him, and if they didn't know, they were negligent in that manner. Society, and Detroit, are better off without him. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 113
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 8:39 pm: | |
"I didn't see anything in that quote about not caring about people that are in a coma or feeling sorry for rich people. I am not rich BTW, I need every dime I can get for MY family."
All citizens are required to pay taxes for YOUR FAMILY can live in a free country and so YOU can have a job to support YOUR family. If you have a problem with it, form your own nation with just YOUR family.
Besides, I never said you were rich, I said wealthy (those who are better off). You seem better off to me compared to the folks you're describing. |
Eric
Member
Username: Eric
Post Number: 942
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 8:46 pm: | |
Yes he had the right kill, the criminal threated his life. We're talking situation where a victim only has seconds to react, the criminal isn't going to give him the time to aim perfectly for a non fatal shot. |
Ladyinabag
Member
Username: Ladyinabag
Post Number: 324
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 9:04 pm: | |
Neither is self-defense. The first one is out and out murder. It is against the law to take your gun outside and shoot someone. This could be considered murder one but would probably be dropped to either murder two, or manslaughter. It all would depend on how much everybody likes you. If it were inside, then it is self-defense....if the robber has invaded your premises and has a gun on you.
If the fleeing robber shoots the station owner it is felony murder one, punishable in Michigan by life in prison without the possibility of parole. |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 185
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 9:06 pm: | |
Armed, lethal carjackers/robbers are the lowest lifeform on this planet. They deserve to die a tragic death for the problems they contribute to society.
Consider the victim - Works hard for his/her possessions, only to have it taken away from them by a simple have not who doesn't want to work for it. At what expense - His/her life or a lifelong condition. Post traumatic stress from the incident. A jumpy and paranoid life from then on.
Consider the perp - Has nothing to lose. Takes what they want. Takes responsible citizens lives from this planet. Ruins families. Creates prejudices. Contributes nothing positive to society. Doesn't deserve to live.
DRise - wake up man. People like that don't deserve to live at all. They don't pay taxes most likely, and take away tax paying citizens or create an increase in tax spending for critically injured people. Anyway you look at it you can not justify these criminals. So quit tryin'.
(Message edited by tkshreve on September 29, 2007)
(Message edited by tkshreve on September 29, 2007) |
Ghetto_butterfly
Member
Username: Ghetto_butterfly
Post Number: 749
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 9:38 pm: | |
You people are beyond belief. Nobody has the right to kill. Nobody should be able to have a gun. The only people who should carry arms are soldiers at war and cops. Most wars in history and present are unjustified but that's a different thread. Even so, as Detroit-Stylin stated (whom I know has been in active duty) soldiers don't shoot to kill right away but rather warn and handicap (which requires training). Same goes for cops. Regular citizens don't have that kind of training. I know by experience that regular, untrained, gun-shy citizens as myself are simply not capable of handling and using guns. I was a victim of a robbery and attempted carjacking about 6 weeks ago. During the incident I was frozen in place, yet somehow tempted to push the guy out of my way and just get into my car. His threads of having a gun and shooting me was what stopped me from just ignoring him. BUT, no way could I have ever used a gun on him even if I had have one which I never will. There is no way in hell that I would have been able to pull a gun and shoot him despite of the situation. I talked to the detective working my case about it, asking him how can I protect myself, and he said exactly this: unless you're willing to pull a gun and shoot, you are not protected by carrying a gun. And most people are NOT prepared to do so. By the way, he suggested pepper spray. Very effective, not lethal and it has dye in it too. How about that for self-defense to all of you gun-worshipping assholes? |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3145
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 9:46 pm: | |
quote:The only people who should carry arms are soldiers at war and cops.
Most gun-wielding criminals disagree. Why disarm law abiding citizens and make them defenseless against people who have no regard for gun laws or any other law? You can't handle a gun so don't carry one, that is your choice. They guy from Troy has another view and successfully defended himself and took down a useless piece of shit. Good for him.
You may want to review the 2nd Amendment as well. It is never a good idea for the government to have a monopoly on deadly force. We all have the right of self-defense.
(Message edited by perfectgentleman on September 29, 2007) |
Rjk
Member
Username: Rjk
Post Number: 885
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 9:46 pm: | |
"I talked to the detective working my case about it, asking him how can I protect myself, and he said exactly this: unless you're willing to pull a gun and shoot, you are not protected by carrying a gun."
Wow, that guy is pretty sharp. I'm surprised he didn't charge you for that advice. |
Eric
Member
Username: Eric
Post Number: 943
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 9:58 pm: | |
quote:What the *hell* makes you think they went there to kill? You don't even know if the gun was loaded! It's entirely possible they were just punk kids who wanted to go joyriding, or missed the last bus and wanted to drive home.
Whether they intended to kill or not is entirely irreverent. By pointing a gun at him they threated his life and he had every right to remove that threat. There's a reason why just pointing a gun at someone is a crime even if there's no verbal threat issued. You're pointing a deadly weapon at someone and have no right, threating their lfie and have no right to do so unless your own life is threatened.
We can debate endlessly whether in situations like this of it's better to just give the criminals what they want or to attempt to defend yourself. What's not debatable is that this was justified |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5050
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 9:58 pm: | |
quote:You may want to review the 2nd Amendment as well. It is never a good idea for the government to have a monopoly on deadly force. We all have the right of self-defense.
Let me break this down to you point by point, becuase I understand that you are slow and need it in bits and pieces:
quote:"a well regulated militia " as "being necessary to the security of a free State", and prohibits Congress or any other government agency from infringement of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms."
Pt I:
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the to the security of a free state"
When the Constitution was drafted this amendment was included becuase there was no standing, active, professional army to defend the US. There for citizens were given the right in case of an invasion from a foreign army that dictated the need for the citizens to muster for our national security. Even though the Constitution was being written as the Revolutionary War was being fought by mustered volunteers, the army was disbanded after the war was over making the 2nd amendment necessary.
You now have a military force that is over a million strong whose sole purpose IS national defense. So what good is your 9 mm going to do in the worst case scenario our military gets wiped out and a professional, foreign military come rolling armored columns down your street?
the 2nd Amendment spoke in the interests of NATIONAL security not in the spirit of vigilanteeism... |
Ghetto_butterfly
Member
Username: Ghetto_butterfly
Post Number: 750
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:02 pm: | |
Carry on, wild wild west, we have the right to bear weapons. Which is why you Americans will continue to be regarded as barbarians to the rest of the world. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3147
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:06 pm: | |
Sorry DS, the operative phrase being "the people." There is no way that "the people" means a militia in this case but in other parts of the Constitution "the people" means "the people." This reading of the document has been upheld time and again by the courts and Constitutional scholars.
quote:So what good is your 9 mm going to do in the worst case scenario our military gets wiped out and a professional, foreign military come rolling armored columns down your street?
Alot. An armed takeover of this country would NEVER succeed due to "the people" being armed. It also prevents our own government from getting too powerful. It also facilitates our right to defend ourselves. Do keep trying.
quote:Which is why you Americans will continue to be regarded as barbarians to the rest of the world.
Really, why do so many people want to live here and constantly beg us for help? Why would the whole of Europe and Canada allow us to defend them? |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2863
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:12 pm: | |
"Why would the whole of Europe and Canada allow us to defend them?"
Because they wisely find war vile and distasteful while Americans like yourself are stupid enough to take pride in seeing the country's son and daughters kill and be killed. |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5053
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:18 pm: | |
quote:Alot. An armed takeover of this country would NEVER succeed due to "the people" being armed. It also prevents our own government from getting too powerful. It also facilitates our right to defend ourselves. Do keep trying.
Wow I am so struck by the stupidity of that fucking statement....
Let's see a million man, professionally trained Chinese ARMY (not including airforce, navy, and naval infantry forces they have), with automatic weapons, field artillery, air support and all the other bells and whistles that come along with an invasion force...
A few card carrying members of the NRA that truly believe that the weapons they have can penetrate the skin of a tank, shoot down aircraft, and fight off a human wave of an invasion force (not to mention only if any of them are left after the initial pre-invasion naval and air bombardment) and the fact that they took one gun safety class is enough knowledge to fight and sustain a war...
Yeah PG, that makes alot of noise to me...
(Message edited by Detroit_stylin on September 29, 2007) |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1063
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:18 pm: | |
Amazing! |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3150
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:19 pm: | |
quote:Because they wisely find war vile and distasteful while Americans like yourself are stupid enough to take pride in seeing the country's son and daughters kill and be killed.
Actually Europe doesn't find war distasteful at all. That continent has given rise to 2 world wars, fascism, communism, and totalitarianism. It is now in the process of being infiltrated by radical Islam and is doing nothing. They have become a bunch of pussies who have blown their treasure on socialist programs and NEED us to defend them.
(Message edited by perfectgentleman on September 29, 2007) |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3151
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:22 pm: | |
DS, you are out of your mind. Do you really think ANY army can invade a nation of 300 million people, many of whom are armed, and actually succeed? Do you think anyone would even try?
If it were that easy to conquer a nation then Iraq would be all done by now. |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5057
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:32 pm: | |
PG that made so little sense man, I realize I am wasting keystrokes on you... |
Ghetto_butterfly
Member
Username: Ghetto_butterfly
Post Number: 751
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:33 pm: | |
quote:Really, why do so many people want to live here and constantly beg us for help?
Sorry, the only people wanting to live here are those from third world countries who naively believe that this is a better country. I HAVE to live here because of my job. And who is begging the US for help? It is known worldwide that the US is assuming the not wanted and not asked for job of the Police of the world. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3154
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:36 pm: | |
It makes perfect sense. You claim that an army of one million can conquer a nation of 300 million people, many of which are armed. It ain't gonna happen, I don't care how many tanks and planes they have. It is a useless rhetorical exercise in any case. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3155
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:39 pm: | |
quote:I HAVE to live here because of my job.
Get another job. And sorry, many people from first world nations want to come here but the immigration laws favor third world nations due to Ted Kennedy's Immigration Act of 1965. People are leaving Europe in droves as they retire, sorry. |
Atwater
Member
Username: Atwater
Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:52 pm: | |
quote:"I talked to the detective working my case about it, asking him how can I protect myself, and he said exactly this: unless you're willing to pull a gun and shoot, you are not protected by carrying a gun."
Wow, that guy is pretty sharp. I'm surprised he didn't charge you for that advice.
LOL! |
Atwater
Member
Username: Atwater
Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:55 pm: | |
It's amazing to me that some people here seem to wish the car jacker was still alive and able to continue threatening people's lives! As I said before, society and Detroit are better off without him. This IS DetroitYES forum, is it not? This criminal's death is another small victory for Detroit. So, I say, Detroit YES!
(Message edited by atwater on September 29, 2007) |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 186
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 11:07 pm: | |
DS / LIL
Quit aggressing posters for wanting to carry weapons for their self defense!! They obviously can't do anything about the a$$holes out there that already have guns and use them on innocent people. If the wimpy government officials would do something to get those guns off the streets, then we might see a decrease in gun demand for personal defense. But with endless thugs running around with weapons and using them at there whim, I don't see any problem with rightful citizens using guns (in a reactionary mind you) to defend themselves from shitheads who think they deserve things they never worked one day for in their rotten lives. I smile when these pizza delivery robbers, liquor store robbers and carjackers get shot. They deserve every bullet that gets pumped into their worthless bodies!••• |
Ghetto_butterfly
Member
Username: Ghetto_butterfly
Post Number: 752
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 11:20 pm: | |
quote:Actually Europe doesn't find war distasteful at all. That continent has given rise to 2 world wars, fascism, communism, and totalitarianism. It is now in the process of being infiltrated by radical Islam and is doing nothing. They have become a bunch of pussies who have blown their treasure on socialist programs and NEED us to defend them.
And the US had Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, the Gulf War, Iraq to be ashamed of themselves.
Explain how Europe is "being infiltrated by "radical Islam"?? What is the F??ck is totalitarianism? And no, we have not all of a sudden adopted socialist programs because we have always been like that and we sure as hell wouldn't ask Americans to defend us and our socialist programs. At least we don't have a fraction of the gun violence as in the US.
Also, read up on Communism and you will find that it was actually meant as a program to help humanity, rather than the evil idea that the US painted it to be.
P.S. since WWII, I can't remember a situation where Europe has asked the US for help. Care to elaborate? Even so, if I remember my history lessons correctly, the US only got involved AFTER they were attacked in Pearl Harbor. |
Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100
Post Number: 1496
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 11:23 pm: | |
quote:P.S. since WWII, I can't remember a situation where Europe has asked the US for help. Care to elaborate?
Does the Cold War count? |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3158
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 11:35 pm: | |
Ghetto_butterfly -
Quickly:
The wars you mentioned were to repel invaders or to liberate people from tyranny and oppression.
You obviously don't read the news reports from Europe, do so and you will see that radical Islam is on the march in Europe. The London tube bombing being an example of average English citizens becoming radicalized by elements within the country.
Communism has caused millions of deaths.
Europe nations have no significant military defense of their own, NATO is defending them and that entity without the US is impotent.
Europe as we know it today would not exist without the US. Starting with defending her in 2 world wars, the Marshall Plan, access to the American economy and market, supporting Europe during the Cold War and bringing down the Iron Curtain, the wars in the Falklands and Kosovo. The list is long.
Crime rates in Europe have been rising for years, nothing to brag about there.
(Message edited by perfectgentleman on September 29, 2007) |