  Gmich99 Member Username: Gmich99 Post Number: 250 Registered: 11-2005 |
"A report by the nonprofit Social Compact shows the population is actually 933,043 -- nearly 62,000 more than 2006 census estimates and that the city has $15.8 billion in household income." http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20071001/U PDATE/710010412/1409/METRO | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1714 Registered: 11-2003 |
I wonder how much he paid for that outcome...? | ||
3420 Member Username: 3420 Post Number: 140 Registered: 10-2003 |
I just got through reading this. Nice story but very interesting. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 5074 Registered: 10-2003 |
Countdown to L'Yards negativity in 3....2... | ||
Gmich99 Member Username: Gmich99 Post Number: 251 Registered: 11-2005 |
I don't trust the numbers, but wonderful news if the population of Detroit increased. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4151 Registered: 10-2004 |
You know that Social Compact must be some major organization when its only job listing contains this: quote:. Obviously, such a Washington, DC-based lobby, such as the Social Compact organization, is far better positioned than the US Census Bureau at determining population research, especially when it accepts non-paid interns year round... I think we can safely disregard this thread or submit it to The Onion for their consideration for a future promising story line. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 924 Registered: 01-2005 |
Read deeper, for heaven's sake! Its a flim-flam:Social Compact has done the studies in eight other cities and the results are invariably identical: population in the particular city is higher than U.S. Census estimates, crime is leveling off and the buying power of residents is more than suggested. "People are going to be amazed at what was found," said Matt Allen, Kilpatrick's press secretary. "It's going to change some perceptions." The group will send researchers to do more intense surveys over the next few months, Allen said. The Detroit survey is the largest the group had conducted, although Social Compact has done segments of Chicago and New York City. The mayor today also will deliver the first update on the NEXT Detroit Neighborhood Initiative, a strategy Kilpatrick's staff launched in May that will focus on improving six specific neighborhoods in areas ranging from police presence to improving housing stock. The Social Compact report, which cost about $150,000, was paid for by the Kresge Foundation and the Community Foundation for Southeast Michigan, two of Kilpatrick's key partners for the Neighborhood Initiative. "We need something that can get the city to a tipping point where you will have some retailers come in hopefully this might make some difference," said Rip Rapson, president of the Kresge Foundation. City officials hope the report will boost the city's image and the data can be used to entice new businesses. In the eight other cities where the report has been completed, that goal has a spotty record. A study in Harlem, N.Y., resulted in a few new ATM machines and two Fleet Bank branches; in Cleveland, Key Bank opened a branch in a blighted shopping center; and in Houston, a 750,000 square foot new mall was built; and in Chicago, it helped lure in a Home Depot store. In Cincinnati, their study, which was released in June, pegged its population at 378,259 and not the 332,252 the U.S. Census estimated." " | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 349 Registered: 12-2006 |
In Cincinnati, their study, which was released in June, pegged its population at 378,259 and not the 332,252 the U.S. Census estimated." Could the census bureau really be off by over 46,000? | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 332 Registered: 09-2006 |
The funny thing about Detroits population is its consistently under reported. While there is no doubt it has dwindled over the years, the present population has a significant number of residents who use suburban addresses ( whether it be family or friends) as their home address yet live in the city. This is basically due to insurance and tax issues. The city does not have a particularily good system for tracking this. Also many people who have second residences elsewhere,often use that address as their primary one, They therefore never get counted in the finals. Also there is a very large element of people who fall through the cracks in society who are not registered residents either yet live in Detroit. An informal study done on this several years ago by a federal agency gathering statistical data estimated that approximately 20,000-40,000 people are unaccounted for in Detroits population each year due to these factors. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1430 Registered: 04-2006 |
Detroitbill, Don't forget that the City also has a sizable homeless population, minority population, and illegal immigrant population. Those groups are all undercounted. In places like Detroit where you do have extremes in poverty or minorities, that could have a very significant impact on the difference between the actual count and the census count. However I have always seen the census count and the actual count as comparing apples with oranges. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 812 Registered: 12-2006 |
The problem of course is that the "actual" count is unknowable, and the "census" count is the one used to disburse federal money and so on. So understanding the difference can be important if you are trying to make a point to anyone but the federal government (which itself treats census numbers as gospel). I am going to guess that a reasonable statistician, understanding the recent posts by Detroitbill and Detroitplanner, would agree that we are probably undercounting in Detroit, and by a fairly significant amount. Now, are any of you out there reasonable statisticians? Care to comment? I've studied statistics but do not qualify as an expert. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3834 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://www.federalreserve.gov/ newsevents/speech/Bernanke2006 0420a.htm quote: The Federal Reserve now officially recognizes Social Compact data for its Community Reinvestment Act scoring when added to HMDA data. The reason that the information is consistently better in most communities is that Census data is notorious for under counting as alluded to by Bernanke. If any of you yahoos want to poo-poo this as a "flim-flam", put your credentials up against the Chair of the Federal Reserve. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4154 Registered: 10-2004 |
One claim made by the Census Bureau in its 2005 interim report was that Metro Detroit only attracted about 1/4 of the number of immigrants it should have been expected to. Perhaps, a major reason for failing to attract them was that immigrants often come to an area to seek jobs, and Detroit is dismal in that regard. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1722 Registered: 04-2006 |
If any of you yahoos want to poo-poo this as a "flim-flam", put your credentials up against the Chair of the Federal Reserve. LOLz. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 927 Registered: 01-2005 |
Well, why does the News report say that the results across cities are always the same and that the city reports have, by and large, generated pretty small interest in investment - a few ATM's? If there was huge success to point to, I'd certainly be glad. I live in SWD and I want more investment there. But this seems like another one of the Mayor's grandiose announcements that are full of air. TIME magazine has his number! | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3835 Registered: 10-2003 |
Maybe the real issue here is the crap journalism in this city... The results are the same because they keep finding the same errors, which systematically undercounts population and miscalculates income. Results have been more than "a few ATMs" You apparently didn't bother to read what was posted. Let me repost it again. quote: | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4157 Registered: 10-2004 |
So, what developers are planning to invest their private funds in Detroit? How much? And where? Surely, these shouldn't be any secrets. There's no big gold rush happening here at the present. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1921 Registered: 11-2003 |
Here is a link to the actual report: http://www.socialcompact.org/p dfs/DetroitDrillDownReport.pdf (Note, this is a somewhat large 3.6MB pdf.) | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1431 Registered: 04-2006 |
Prof Scott, I don't study or work with undercounts, though I did once work for the Census. The best I can do is assume that since Detroit has such large populations of traditionally undercounted individuals that it would be much more severe here than it would be elsewhere. By how much? Like I mentioned, I'd have no idea what the average undercount would be, so I am not qualified to answer your question. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4160 Registered: 10-2004 |
If a homeless dude has two (or ten) cities in which to live, what fraction of a person is he? I know this one homeless guy in "Detroit" who spends 6 to 7 months here and 5 to 6 months in Florida, year after year. He's been on welfare (medical assistance, drinks some four/five 40s a day, and is 100 pounds overweight, minimum. He lived that way since he was 30 thirty-five years ago. BTW, he never worked or ever paid into Social Security. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 236 Registered: 07-2007 |
^ how do i get that gig  | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 490 Registered: 02-2006 |
Great, now that we have established Detroit has more than 800,000 residents, next move--------keeping them. Increase Taxes!•••• Offer free healthcare AND education for residents who move to the city and live in the city. <313> | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 455 Registered: 08-2007 |
Lyard, I didn't think the homeless were part of the Social Compact, so your point is...irony? | ||
Granmontrules Member Username: Granmontrules Post Number: 180 Registered: 01-2007 |
I took this as meaning that Detroit has more buying power than previously thought thus making us more attractive to retailers. I don't know how someone could make this so negative. But HEY on this Forum I have noticed there are Detroit bashers that will say anything just to bash the City. I would LOVE to see how many of those people actually lived in the City. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 1590 Registered: 09-2006 |
As many people I know that didn't get counted in 2000 I wouldn't be surprised if Detroit will or always has had at or over a million people. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 1367 Registered: 01-2006 |
Dumb-ass Kwame can try, all he wants, to spin this questionable "new information" into the suggestion that we Detroiters have much more buying power than has been recognized. The only people who I'm seeing more of? The broke-ass, non-taxpaying parasites. | ||
Granmontrules Member Username: Granmontrules Post Number: 184 Registered: 01-2007 |
Well Ravine. Give him credit for trying to improve our lives. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 1368 Registered: 01-2006 |
Granmontrules: I'm not being a smart-ass when I thank you for reminding me of that aspect of the story. Up until recently, I have been TRYING to see our Mayor in as positive a light as I possibly could, but my resolve to do so has been losing wattage. I'm still not sure how much more credit we should be extending to hizzoner, but none the less, your point is well taken. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3836 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: And only a dumbass would call this study and its results "questionable". The Drilldown methodology has been peer reviewed at numerous universities and has been found to be a robust methodology with much more accurate results derived from the sheer breadth of indicators used. Many of the indicators are cross checks on other indicators to ensure that any outliers and anamolies are smoothed over and accounted for. Again, when the Federal Reserve Board of Governors is a key partner (and funder) of the effort, one can take comfort that the information could hardly be characterized as "questionable". Whether you like or dislike the mayor is irrelevant. The truth of the matter is that the information is state of the art and has a much higher accuracy than traditional data sets like Census data. By the way it is not a "suggestion" that there is more buying power than is calculated traditionally. It is an iron clad fact. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1925 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: Is this post supposed to be a joke? I mean, good lord, talk about fodder for Detroit bashers. I do agree that this Social Compact report is good news, and it looks pretty solid. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 930 Registered: 01-2005 |
Skulker, I did a little reading on Social Compact yesterday. I saw that, last year, SC put out some compelling data about grocery stores in Detroit - that the market was underserved and that Detroit could support more full-service supermarkets. Last year - before Kroger closed the two Farmer Jack's in Detroit. So, racism apart - why do you think the wonderful, Federal Reserve-supported data on grocery shopping markets in Detroit was ignored by Kroger? Could they know, from long experience, something the Social Compact people don't know? Also, I tried valiantly to find the $45 million dollar development in Jacksonville that SC says its research inspired. It does not appear to exist. There is a Texas shopping mall that was catalyzed by SC - but not too much else. For the record, I AM a Detroiter, not a negative surburbanite. | ||
Civilprotectionunit4346 Member Username: Civilprotectionunit4346 Post Number: 520 Registered: 06-2007 |
Are they counting all the crackheads & homeless people cause if they are...they shouldn't count | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 949 Registered: 11-2004 |
This place is starting sound like the Free Press forums. Thank God, people like Skulker still post here to put a stop to all the ignorance. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 337 Registered: 09-2006 |
I agree Eric, it would be nice to see people express themselves with better use of the English language. I always wonder if many of the posters here speak person to person in the same manner. If so I would imagine alot of people would walk away. It seems the level of civility on this has decreased since this blogs creation, or is this representative of our society ? How sad if it is. We all have our own opinions and dont need to be verbally degraded for them. If you don't agree with a poster just plainly say so without calling them names and hurling profanities. It just a basic level of respect. Please try to show other posters manners, you will probably get a better discussion going also...respect, generally commands other peoples respect also. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1477 Registered: 07-2004 |
Report Authors Gunned Down Outside Detroit Club DETROIT -- Members of a group that authored a report showing that the Census Bureau undercounted Detroit by several thousand citizens were gunned down last night outside Bleu, a popular Detroit nightclub. The gunman, identified as a 42-year-old Troy resident and DetroitYES! poster, was released on bond this morning ... | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3837 Registered: 10-2003 |
Southwestmap: Kroger never owned Farmer Jack. Farmer Jack as a chain was struggling. You may recall that all 40+ stores closed at the same time, all but two of which were outside the City of Detroit in high income suburbs like Grosse Pointe, and even that did not save them. Kroger purchased 20 of the stores. There are other vacant Farmer Jacks in stable suburbs that have not been purchased or reopened yet as well. The Farmer Jack closure is a straw man argument. The point of the report is that traditional means of counting income and population have kept retailers from making investments in Detroit and other central cities. Now that they have the information (for all of two days) they can begin making more informed decisions. No retailer is going to read a report at noon and open a store by 5:00pm the next day. Your argument that nothing is happening is facile at best. If you will recall, the report you reference did not extend as far as the east side and was focused entirely on the East Riverfront, Lafayette Park, CBD, Midtown and Corktown. The data DID NOT encompass any of the main areas served by the two defunct Farmer Jacks. The City continues to meet with grocery chains and independent grocers to fill both locations. The information uncovered in that report has led the City to extend the Drilldown City-wide. Think before you post. Know who owned what stores when and make sure you know what reports you try to cite are actually about. | ||
Jnot Member Username: Jnot Post Number: 11 Registered: 01-2007 |
the most interesting thing in this study is the reported $800 million dollars of informal income... a suspicious figure on its own; they say that's from mowing grass, informal contracting, etc but claim it doesn't include illegal activities. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 169 Registered: 09-2007 |
I always thought he Detroit's population in reality was over-estimated. A lot of the peolpe counted for the census include Landlords who just pay taxes on homes and some of the people on here who may work and have a name signed on a home in Detroit but don't actually occupy it. So those things are never right. On the other hand, a lot of people aren't even counted in these population estimates. So neither one is accurate. (Message edited by Detroitrise on October 03, 2007) | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 170 Registered: 09-2007 |
To the argument for retail, there are other factors as well. The bad still outweighs the good (taxes, crime, income, neighborhoods). Detroit does have full service Grocers (Mazen's, Honey Bee, Indian Village, even Glory on 8 Mile was Full Service when it first opened). Others have Pharmacies (Sav-Mart is one). However, at the same time, they're all poorly run grocers with those ugly metal bars. So I don't think a slight difference in the population would affect how much retail is within City Limits. | ||
Granmontrules Member Username: Granmontrules Post Number: 187 Registered: 01-2007 |
Doom and Gloom from the usual suspects. |
