  Mrjoshua Member Username: Mrjoshua Post Number: 1419 Registered: 03-2005 |
REVIEW & OUTLOOK Hail to the Taxers October 2, 2007 The Wall Street Journal, op-ed Actor Jeff Daniels makes a cool pitchman in those national TV spots inviting business to Michigan, but soon he may have to start pitching inside the state. At about 2 a.m. Monday, a handful of Republicans in the Legislature broke days of gridlock and handed Democratic Governor Jennifer Granholm the $1.48 billion tax increase she has been demanding. The state's personal income tax will rise to 4.35% from 3.9%, and the rest of the revenue grab will come from a new 6% sales tax on business services. Already 14th in tax burden among the 50 states, according to the Tax Foundation, Michigan is now headed up in the rankings. Congratulations. The Michigan Chamber of Commerce estimates that two-thirds of the $750 million in new sales tax revenue will apply to business transactions that are tax exempt in most states to avoid a compounding effect that raises costs to final consumers. The tax is especially unfair to small employers that contract out for activities, such as office services, that large businesses provide in-house with no sales tax applied. By the way, last year Michigan introduced a new 4.95% business income tax, which will be applied on top of the sales tax. Last year, amid the national expansion, Michigan was the only state outside the Gulf Coast to lose jobs and see a decline in economic output. Comerica Bank recently moved its headquarters to Texas, in part because of Michigan's hostile business climate. Michigan's 7.4% jobless rate is the highest of all states and far above the 4.6% national rate. The state is suffering from the decline of Detroit's car makers, but that's all the more reason to promote policies that attract new businesses -- or at least don't drive current employers to Florida. Ms. Granholm argues that the combination of new taxes to balance the budget, and to finance such new public "investment" as job retraining and education, will reinvigorate Michigan. She should check her history books. In the past 25 years, the only period when Michigan's growth has exceeded that of the national economy was in the mid-1990s after then-Governor John Engler's tax cutting and welfare reform. For a time, Michigan became the unlikely national leader in job creation. Now the total tax burden is returning to where it was before the Engler years. Michigan last went on a taxing binge in 1983, and voters were outraged enough to mount a successful recall campaign against two state Senate ringleaders. This time, two of three Michigan voters have told pollsters they want budget cuts, not new taxes. It may be that the only way to get jobs back into Michigan is to make sure the taxing politicians in Lansing lose theirs. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 916 Registered: 11-2005 |
I expect nothing less from a Rupert Murdoch news organization. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4165 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:So far, there's one self-righteous, disgruntled socialist in disagreement. Why, I never! Imagine! The nerve of the author of that piece favoring people hanging onto their own money. Who's to pay for those social programs if we don't take their money? | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3270 Registered: 03-2006 |
Notice Rhymeswithrawk does not dispute the facts, only attacks the messenger. | ||
Dsmith Member Username: Dsmith Post Number: 129 Registered: 07-2005 |
Politically, this is the most upset I've ever been. I'm simply disgusted in the republicans that allowed this to happen | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 561 Registered: 04-2006 |
She should check her history books. In the past 25 years, the only period when Michigan's growth has exceeded that of the national economy was in the mid-1990s after then-Governor John Engler's tax cutting and welfare reform. wait, wern't the mid-90s a period of substantial economic growth accross the nation? wait, wasn't the president bill clinton!? the cuts referred to here include the shuttering of mental instutions statewide... (can you say increase in the number of lost souls forced to live on the street) they also refer to our disolving highway system that has forced closures accross the state. englar sucked. i don't neccessarily agree with the choices of where money was generated in this recent tax increase, but it had to come from somewhere... you can only cut public university budgets so far... | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 948 Registered: 11-2004 |
Do you people think year after year of double digit increases in school tuition, in a state ranked 39th in population with a college degree makes us more attractive to businesses? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4167 Registered: 10-2004 |
Why is it that those who promote groups like Social Compact and social (their word) programs don't consider themselves as socialists, but instead refer to themselves as "centrists," as if they are in the mainstream? | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1201 Registered: 12-2005 |
"Pure Michigan - we tax your taxes!" "Reinvigorated Michigan - our households now have $207 less of their own money to spend each year in the private sector!" It's a good thing that the government shutdown only lasted a few hours or the valuable work being performed by the government employees assigned to the governor's spouse would have come to a crashing halt. (Message edited by Mikeg on October 02, 2007) | ||
Detrola Member Username: Detrola Post Number: 58 Registered: 02-2006 |
Andylinn, Engler proposed limited cuts to the state mental health system. The state legislature forced an all or nothing situation thinking he would back off or move forward and suffer the political consequences. So be careful when placing blame. As I keep reminding people, Blanchard, Coleman Young and the voters of detroit put Engler in office. So when you cry for the "lost souls forced to live on the streets" remember it was political posturing on the part of Democrats that put them there. | ||
Corktownmark Member Username: Corktownmark Post Number: 353 Registered: 12-2004 |
The article was somewhat one sided. there is no mention ot the 2Billion dollar tax CUT on the single business tax authored by Engler and the state's republican legislators that precipitated this situation in the first place. In the end this is a significant tax CUT for businesses and a tax increase for working people. | ||
Jfre66_77 Member Username: Jfre66_77 Post Number: 82 Registered: 01-2006 |
"It's a good thing that the government shutdown only lasted a few hours or the valuable work being performed by the government employees assigned to the governor's spouse would have come to a crashing halt. " Mikeg - LMAO | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 65 Registered: 06-2007 |
The information the Op-Ed piece relied upon for it's numbers, figures, and statistics were compiled by the Tax Foundation. Frankly, I'm disappointed the WSJ writer is so obviously ignorant of providing any balanced figures and continues to beat a dead horse of "hostile business climate" without informing us in his opinion as to what, other than taxes and unions, are hostile to businesses. Last I checked, it's not like we're nationalizing industries or burning businessmen with torches at bonfires. What is the hostile business climate here in Michigan? Not having any money to spend because our manufacturing jobs have gone up in smoke? | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 179 Registered: 05-2006 |
This is hilarious- It fails to mention the typical Republican solution of cutting taxes- without a way to pay for them, and yet again in the classic fiscally irresponsible Republican manor of leaving a huge deficit. Fat Boy John left this state almost 2 Billion in the hole, and now the Democrat who serve a warm plate fiscal reality get the blame. Just wait 'till Bush leaves office: get your wallet out. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 817 Registered: 12-2006 |
Cinder, I do believe you're right, so let's throw down the gauntlet. Those of you who would plug the $1.75 billion hole without raising taxes: what exactly would you eliminate or reduce, and how much would that save? I never saw a single proposal that made responsible, detailed cuts and eliminated the deficit. If there was one, point it out. I agree there are things the state is spending money on that it ought not to, but my things do not add up to anything like one and three-quarter billion dollars, so I'm interested to see other people's lists. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10317 Registered: 10-2003 |
Why get so worked up by an op-ed piece. It is opinion and opinions have bias. For every piece like this there is another one on the opposite end of the spectrum. I disagree with the blather in this op-ed but there is probably another one out there saying that the wealthy should be taxed at 75% that is just as silly. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3276 Registered: 03-2006 |
The Mackinac Center proposed lots of ideas to make cuts, people chose to ignore them but I never saw a detailed explanation of why they wouldn't work. I recently read there is $4 billion in Medicaid fraud in the State of New York, are we to believe we don't have an fraud in our current $3 billion dollar annual Medicaid liability? Should state employees and teachers be making MORE money and getting far better fringe benefits than the private sector given our circumstances? I don't think so. There are plenty of places to cut, but the governor is not going to force sacrifices onto the people that put her in office. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2873 Registered: 06-2004 |
The Republicans control the state Senate. They could have forced things if they really had any spine (instead of just hot air) and any solutions (which they don't). Even Bill Milliken, probably the most respected Governor in modern Michigan history, was critical of the Republicans in the Legislature. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3282 Registered: 03-2006 |
Lilpup - I guess you don't read the papers, they tried. Milliken is a RINO who supported Granholm. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2874 Registered: 06-2004 |
So anyone who didn't support DeVos is a RINO? The Republican Party, especially in Michigan, has lost a lot of credibility lately. Maybe it's because they're RINO and are, in reality, moving toward the KKK and/or fascism. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 566 Registered: 04-2006 |
pardon my ingnorance, but what is a RINO? thanks - andy | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2875 Registered: 06-2004 |
"Republican In Name Only" | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2614 Registered: 10-2003 |
Andylinn, in addition to Detrola's information on the cause of the mental institution closures, you should know that it had been going on long before Engler took office. The idea was "de-institutionalization". The numbers speak for themselves.  | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2615 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote:I've run into several instances of fraud where people work the system to get covered by Medicaid when they could be covered by an employer health plan if they were willing to pony up the weekly payroll deduction. The system itself encourages fraud. A former employee of mine is married with two kids. Her husband gets health coverage from his job but there are co-pays and deductibles of course. They don't wish to pay these (even though he's a manager with a company car, well-paid) so they've somehow gotten their daughter on Medicaid. They've been advised by the folks at Medicaid to be sure to come into the doctor every month for something so that their medical expenditures are high enough to continue to be eligible for Medicaid. Your tax dollars at work. I don't know where all the right places are to cut but I don't believe that all the fat and waste has already been eliminated. Gov. Granholm herself said a while back that every department could handle a 5% cut -- that'd solve the problem right there. She also said the service tax wouldn't be instituted without direct approval from the voters. What happened to that? I'm wondering how the independent "knowledge workers" like web designers, graphic artists and such are liking being at a 6% disadvantage against their non-Michigan based competitors out there in the ether. I thought we were supposed to be making Michigan more attractive to the faster growing tech/knowledge sector. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3398 Registered: 10-2003 |
^Many other states already tax services, so the "6% disadvantage" is moot. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 2475 Registered: 10-2003 |
PG, was Teddy Roosevelt a RINO? Just asking. | ||
Wally Member Username: Wally Post Number: 315 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Michigan just lost an advantage it may have had then, just when it needs any advantage it can get. (Message edited by Wally on October 02, 2007) | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 717 Registered: 08-2007 |
I just heard the WSJ author of the OpEd piece on WWJ. He was very biased toward the Republican side. Example: He said the Republicans wanted cuts and no tax increase, but the Dems wouldn't come up with cuts. What about the Republicans? Nobody came up with any responsible, doable cuts. I saw a lot of screaming about needing to cut, but nothing specific. When it was proposed to close Jackson Prison, what happened to that? Putting it on just one party is biased and irresponsible. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2616 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: quote:http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20071002/O PINION01/710020321/1008&imw=Y | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 334 Registered: 09-2006 |
I am always confused as to what would have happened if we were still in gridlock and state operations would have "shutdown". The same people bellyaching about increased taxes would be the first to complain about the lack of services and the states inability to operate on a day to day basis. Most people complaining about increased taxes have little knowledge of all the spending details and which items they take for granted are covered by these taxes. Is there waste in the government presently ? Ofcourse there is, and attempts are being made to streamline. This will not happen this week either. Approximately 400 million dollars of cuts are still to come to make this budget work. Soon you will see the same people complaining about a tax increase complain more about the cuts. If you want the conveniences and social programs we talk about we have to pay for them, the challenge is to do it as simply as possible. I give the Dems and Republicans credit for doing what they felt was best at this difficult time. No one wants to pay more tax but sometimes you have to if you want a certain standard of living in your state . The tax increase reverses back in a couple of years anyway. Looking at the Chicago Tribune yesterday it was noted that they are considering raising the sales tax to 11% in the city on certain items.. Michiganders would scream if we even comtemplated such a measure. Our legistature is in a most difficult situation of trying to operate in a economically stressed state that has a abundance of old highways and roads and large amounts of people on social assistance. The Granholm administration inherited a huge deficit from Engler and company when he left and hitailed to another state. A good portion of that was reduced in a very short period of time. Personally I felt both parties did the best they could under the current pressures and was glad to see that they worked together to come to this consensus. The individuals who are already working on recalling some of their reps for voting for it I find particularly interesting. Their rule is for no tax increase yet they expect the same standard of living today..Then the next day they run out to a Lions game and blow 150.00 for the day.. Its about as logical as going to the car dealership with $10,000.00 and demanding a new Cadillac, It simply does not compute. |
