  Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 72 Registered: 06-2007 |
I agree that there needs to be some level of tax increase here but a service tax isn't the best idea. At least the income tax we get a portion of back from the feds at the end of the year. I'll wait and see if this actually sticks (sort of like what Florida did in the past). | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 180 Registered: 05-2006 |
The reality is that the roots of this problem, are based in Republican fiscal irresponsibility, and a huge deficit created under Engler. As for cuts, how about taking a whack at the 38% pay increase (Approved under Republicans) the legislature gave themselves to become the 2nd highest paid legislature in the entire country. I didn't hear a peep about cutting this. They are all spineless hacks, and all need to be recalled. Fringe benefits for teachers? Nothing can compare to getting a full pension for life after serving a two-terms in the Michigan House. Excuse me, but when the legislature wants to point fingers at fringe benefits, they need to clean up their own backyard first. Talk about hanging out at the public feeding trough. Greenspan was right about his criticism about Republicans: when you forsake principal for power, you get neither. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3288 Registered: 03-2006 |
quote: *sigh* quote: *yawn* | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 182 Registered: 05-2006 |
quote: a huge deficit created under Engler. *yawn* -Yawn? Your paying for it now pal- Just wait till you get your tax increase to pay for the debacle in Iraq which is currently 7K per household. It'll be 15k before the politicians have the guts to pull the plug on that too. Since you like to yawn, apparently paying an extra 7K in taxes in no big deal then. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10324 Registered: 10-2003 |
Can anyone explain to me how golf is not on the list of taxable items. I know there is a strong lobby for sports tickets but golf? I guess most of the people in Lansing golf. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4168 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:What might one otherwise do in those spare times for one paid as a full-time legislator but merely working in a part-time occupation? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10328 Registered: 10-2003 |
I was also thinking that golf is popular among senior citizens and senior citizens represent at the polls very well. No need to piss off the old timers when it comes to what they pay for their golf. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6632 Registered: 02-2004 |
YAY!•• HIGHER TAXES FOR ALL MICHIGANDERS. Thank you Granholm. We really need that income tax hike to pay off the budget deficit. God bless that woman! | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 335 Registered: 09-2006 |
Cinder, you are absolutely correct about the coming deficit ramifications to the American public regarding the Iraq war. I firmly believe the average American has no idea whatsoever of the future economic implications of these costs to them down the road. It has been smoothed over by the present administration ( I m quite sure intentionally), however the world financial markets are already reacting to the U.S. dollar. The Canadian dollar is trading slightly above it now. (first time in 30 years). These are all the first signs. Five years down the road this will all rear its ugly head with increased interest rates, inflation and recession. Its all basic economic theory that will play itself out. Then the blame will begin . Yet we keep allowing major spending on this issue to increase. Hopefully some of this to some extent will serve as a lesson here in Michigan. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3301 Registered: 03-2006 |
The Iraq war is currently running at $150 billion per year, not peanuts. But the overall budget is about $3 trillion, most of it in entitlement programs. As long as liberals are getting on the fiscal conservative bandwagon, perhaps there are savings to be had in their pet programs? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10330 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Can you supply a link to the breakdown. I am curious to see how it breaks down and what programs you consider entitlements. That is a pretty vague term. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 819 Registered: 12-2006 |
Hmm. Lots of posts, and I still haven't seen one single answer to my question. Come on, let's have it. What would you cut? By the way you don't "cut" fraud. It's an excellent idea to go after it and root it out, but that takes time and effort (and you have to pay somebody to do it). There's no item in the Medicaid budget labelled "fraud". Specifics, specifics, specifics! What would you do away with or reduce? I still haven't seen anything! | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 74 Registered: 06-2007 |
Private contracts with EDS. If you examine their cost overruns that the state had to pony up for, I think it runs close to $500 million. Point is not to repeat No-Bid contracts. Second thing cut is to reconsolidate DEQ and the DNR into one agency and get rid of some duplication of administrative staff. Third, get rid of county drain commissioners. Set up a state board of commissioners to handle this. Four, privatize a number of DIT functions. Don't just hand it to EDS though. Make people come in and competitively bid it and subcontract it out. Five, axe the prevailing wage laws for local school districts. Studies on this issue indicate that huge savings can be realized by local districts by not having to pay a set union wage for construction projects. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3308 Registered: 03-2006 |
How to Avoid Raising Taxes http://www.mackinac.org/articl e.aspx?ID=8798 Change the higher education funding mechanism to a standard "per-pupil foundation grant" in which the money is attached to the students, rather than each university getting an amount determined by legislative maneuvering. Shift state police road patrols to less expensive county sheriff deputies. Adopt the Hay Group report recommendations on rationalizing public school health insurance, including requiring co-pays and preferred provider networks. Eliminate the Michigan State University cooperative extension service and agriculture experiment station. According to a Rio Grande Foundation report, if 5 percent of prisoners are placed in privately-managed prisons, the state saves 14 percent on overall prison spending because government-managed prisons have an incentive to "sharpen their pencils." Eliminate "History and Arts" subsidies. The state spends almost $15 billion on Medicaid and welfare, more than $6 billion of which is from state taxes and fees. Medicaid in particular is a command-and-control monstrosity rife with perverse incentives. Reforming it in ways that give recipients an incentive to economize and take better care of themselves could save hundreds of millions of dollars, while actually giving recipients greater freedom and choice. If just 1.6 percent of the expense in these two programs could be reduced in this way, the state would save: $240 million. Let me guess, these ideas will be dismissed because they come from a "right-wing think tank." | ||
Drjeff Member Username: Drjeff Post Number: 13 Registered: 06-2007 |
PG, that is an absolute lie about most of the budget being in entitlement programs. This is where you lump social security into the general spending, in which it does not belong. Social security is a separate trust fund that has been raided by congress for years- it is not part of the general budget. The largest expenditure by far is on defense, not even including the war in Iraq. Another major expenditure is interest on the national debt. You know, the debt that was going away before Bush took office, lowered taxes on his wealthy pals, and bankrupted the country for the next 100 years. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 820 Registered: 12-2006 |
Couple issues with what are overall some good ideas. 1. Getting rid of County Drain Commissioners doesn't save the state money. The counties pay for that. If you replace that with state employees, then you need more of them. Or is the functioned performed by that office unnecessary? I don't think so... 2. If you "shift state police road patrols to... county sheriff deputies", you aren't saving money at all, you're just shifting the burden from the state to the counties. Taxpayers still have to pay. Also, are you sure sheriff deputy patrols cost less than state trooper patrols? Medicaid reform: great idea. Will the Fed let us? I'm not sure how much flexibility the states have, in regard to that program. Rationalizing public employee insurance in general is an excellent idea, and if the legislature isn't willing to do that, I wonder how serious they really are. Axing prevailing wage laws is also an excellent proposal. I have no idea how much we've saved so far, but we're on the right track. Others? | ||
Mrjoshua Member Username: Mrjoshua Post Number: 1420 Registered: 03-2005 |
Drjeff, I think it's time for you to go back to school. "The largest expenditure by far is on defense, not even including the war in Iraq." Really? 3.7 percent of GDP is allocated to our military. It was 9.4 percent during the Vietnam War and 37.8 percent during WWII, by the way. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2876 Registered: 06-2004 |
"3.7 percent of GDP is allocated to our military" but what is it as percentage of the total budget? | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 75 Registered: 06-2007 |
PG, For the most part, I'd disagree with the Mackinac Center's study because the items they list are simply a reduction of government programs that in some circumstances, have arguable merit and other economic benefits that the private sector will not sufficiently developed to replace. I won't even delve into the pure propoganda they perpetuate regarding savings that could be realized by making state employee benefits in line with private sector employees. Their methodology of comparison and analysis flat out ignored significant data and frankly, is a bald faced lie. Some of their ideas merit further examination, (i.e. the prevailing wage) but their purpose is political in nature. It requires further study by non-partisan actors. Utilizing their information without independent verification is just as boneheaded as utilizing the unions data. | ||
Drjeff Member Username: Drjeff Post Number: 14 Registered: 06-2007 |
NO, I think it's time you looked at a federal budget breakdown Mrjoshua. The percentage of GDP is not relevant. According to the OMB, in 2007 21% of the budget was spent on "national defense," which, again, does not include the Iraq war. That is, by far, the largest fraction of the budget. If you include all of the money that has to be spent on veterans programs (which you might consider an "entitlement" but is actually still spending on the military), the percentage goes way up. | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 76 Registered: 06-2007 |
Professor, We currently have 83 counties with drain commissioners. For the most part, the position is an anachronism. The real cost savings could be realized by eliminating this from an elected spot. It doesn't directly save the state government money but it does save money on a county by county level. Every dollar saved is a dollar in revenue. | ||
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 3019 Registered: 11-2003 |
The $400 million in cuts is a pipe dream. Since the republicans blinked, the democrats will not piss off their favorite constitutiencies by enacting any significant cuts. They're already in SPIN-mode right now with their MEA handlers trying to explain away the fact that MESSA will no longer be its cash cow. And if you thought that this year's budget was bad, just wait until they realize that they have yet another deficit to contend with in '08(currently pegged at at least $600 million...but will most likely increase). | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3311 Registered: 03-2006 |
Umcs - I guess you have more faith in government programs than I do. I think there are alot of activities they have involved themselves in are not being done particularly well or efficiently. Can we actually trust people whose ox is being gored to come up with cuts? Of course not. The bureaucrats are always going to say they are operating at bare bones and cannot make cuts. They will always claim they are benefiting the taxpayers, would you expect them to say anything different? Any personal interaction I have had with government on any level has been unsatisfactory. Many of have witnessed the fraud, waste and incompetence first hand. Allowing them to pick our pockets in ever increasing numbers is not going to bring about accountability. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 821 Registered: 12-2006 |
Umcs, thanks for the clarification. Actually a great deal of money can be saved by requiring sharing of services, but you run into political hell at the local level. Ontario simply forced municipalities to merge up into larger ones, but whenever you even mention that on this board, you get a certain array of predictable responses. Watch, it will happen again now. But it's a good idea and ought to be studied. Why (for instance) the 36 square mile historic township of Royal Oak has to have, what, ten or fifteen separate cities (plus a small unincorporated area) is completely beyond me. Perfect, you make a good point that the government isn't likely to go out of its way to kill its own pet projects and so forth. That's why we need a restructuring. But if the government won't restructure itself, how does it get done? | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 3315 Registered: 03-2006 |
quote: Throw the bums out.  | ||
Drjeff Member Username: Drjeff Post Number: 15 Registered: 06-2007 |
On this I will agree! It is pathetic that it came down to within hours of a shutdown to get a budget passed. This is the main job of these people and they couldn't get it done on time. Most of us would be fired for such a piss poor effort. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4171 Registered: 10-2004 |
One must be very careful when mentioning items on the budget. The following is a brief About.com article on the US federal budget: U.S. Federal Budget FY 2008 - Revenue Projections quote: | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 77 Registered: 06-2007 |
When discussing government, I think the vast majority of state employees want the best for the state as a whole. However, I also believe that they should not view public service as a lifetime position. Personally, I think having a more open transition between government and private sector employers could be a good thing. Another problem is that for government employees, there is no reward really for furthering yourself, getting a better education, introducing reforms that save money for taxpayers, etc. I reserve faith for my religion. Pragmatism is required when considering the cost-benefits of government programs. I'd prefer to see more accurate accounting of government not unlike that provided by the GAO of the feds. Now the problem is getting anyone to listen to the GAO. | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 183 Registered: 05-2006 |
To get back to the thread- I already mentioned what I would cut: The legislature's budget, and roll back their 38% pay raise they do not deserve, and have them go part time, and roll back their fat State of Mich. pensions. I also think the voters should decide this; not the legislature. | ||
Cjs Member Username: Cjs Post Number: 11 Registered: 08-2007 |
Just as the state government employees where the waste is. They spend hours discussing it everyday. Do you know we count gypsy moths each year? But there is no program to take action to curtail the gypsy moth population. Yet we keep doing so. |
