 
Margaret
Member
Username: Margaret
Post Number: 191
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 6:51 pm: |    |
some feel that the ultimate solution to Detroit's problems boils down to cracking down on crime. what do the rest of you think? let's focus on solutions! |
Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 702
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:06 pm: | |
I wish there was a way to bridge the divide(s). It sometimes feels like more than one city, all occupying the same space and competing rather than cooperating. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10289
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:08 pm: | |
Opportunities for childen and families. The opportunities can be through job opportunities which are very minimal in the city or access to better jobs out of the city (lack of mass transit is an issue)
Work with non-profits and other agencies to ensure that children, if they work hard enough and excel in school have an opportunity to o to college or learn a trade.
Without opportunity or employment a society can not move forward and all too many in the city are lacking opportunity or access to jobs.
Let's ensure that citizens and the people in the neighborhood can count on the courts and DPD when they are seeing criminal activity in their community. A PD will not get info from residents if the odds of reprissals are high and the response from the PD is low.
Create more youth programs to keep children occupied in productive programs. The ones in the city that are working now are great.
Find a way to unite SE Michigan. The attitude and the actions towards the city are horrible in the general region. MAny, many people in the region see the children of the city as disposal and laugh about the issues they face. Until we can educate the region the struggles of our children in the city will continue to be a punchline for people that do not live here. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2270
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:10 pm: | |
undoubtedly, some genius will come on this thread and proclaim "Jobs! Jobs are the answer!"...
This usually means that they believe that there is some mysterious force intentionally keeping jobs out of the reach of Detroit, a force that can choose to *give* Detroit jobs if it wants to, and if this mysterious force is defeated, it will result in employment for every Detroiter...
It also means that they lack any concept of the possibility that Detroiters can and should create jobs for themselves like every other civilized place on planet Earth does...this is simply a foreign concept to them...
there are a lot of things Detroit COULD do to solve it's problems, but realistically, the people would simply never adopt such solutions...
in reality, the best thing Detroit could do that MIGHT actually come to pass in our lifetime is to start voting competent leaders into public office who will actually perform the job in the way that every other major city in America expects their leaders to perfrom, and to stop turning elections into a contest of who the "blackest" candidate is...
P.S. Sorry for the negative tone of my post. I'm a little pissed off today about something. That said, the substance of my comments are still my honest thoughts on the matter. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10290
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:15 pm: | |
A record - A potentially positive thread gets all the way to the 4th post before someone pisses all over it spewing non-sense.
Bravo tj, bravo. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2271
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:17 pm: | |
^I offered a realistic solution, a solutions that is in the hands of Detroiters that takes nothing more than them deciding to do the right thing.
You offered exactly the kind of nonsense I prophesied in my post.
Bravo, Jt1, bravo. |
Monahan568
Member
Username: Monahan568
Post Number: 239
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:18 pm: | |
the city needs to go into receivership this will stop all the BS spending |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10291
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:22 pm: | |
quote:You offered exactly the kind of nonsense I prophesied in my post.
My post was before yours which would not make it a prophecy. You also missed the point of opportunity. You claim that it is simplistic to say we need jobs but it is just as simplistic to gloss over the very real issues that are faced and state the non-sense that you did in your post.
I guess it is silly to say we need jobs but brilliant to claim "that Detroiters can and should create jobs for themselves" when there is limited access to capital, often challenges that very few other areas face. Economics and reality be damned - they should just create jobs. Seems to me you are pretty guilty of simplification as well. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3233
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:26 pm: | |
Public safety should be Job 1. It brought back NYC from the brink and could work here too. If Rudy loses the election, maybe we can lure him to come here.  |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2272
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:26 pm: | |
JT1:
actually, mine was two minutes before yours...I accidentally posted twice and deleted the old one...
anyway, back to topic...you want jobs and opportunities...if you don't think Detroiters are capable of creating jobs for themselves (a point I disagree with you on), then how do think they should get jobs...should someone just GIVE jobs to them? economics be damned, people should just pull jobs out of their ass and give them to Detroit! |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10292
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:32 pm: | |
tj - I believe that Detroiters do need to create jobs but your oversimplification of it is silly. How do you create jobs when there is a real lack of access to capital in the city?
Now when talking about pulling jobs out of asses what makes more sense: Trying to bring established business into the city (see the social compact study) or expect Detroiters to mysterisouly have access to capital to start businesses. Ideally it should be a mix of the two but the economic flight has decimated this city and continues to do so. The simple fact of the matter is that most money spent by Detroiters is spent in the suburbs which creates jobs out of the city. Organizations like the social compact are working to make business aware of the money spent by Detroiters to bring business here which is a strong start.
So tell me how Detroiters can access all of this capital to start business? You are just as guilty as ignoring economics in this scenario. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10293
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:34 pm: | |
quote:Public safety should be Job 1. It brought back NYC from the brink and could work here too. If Rudy loses the election, maybe we can lure him to come here.
Can we have the state direct a tax to the city of Detroit like is done in NY. I think NY is an amazing city and run exceptionally well (Detroit should take some pointers) but the access to money is vastly different. Even in the worst of times they had a huge residential and business base. There is also (If I am not mistaken) a statewide tax in the State of NY were everyone pays a tax that goes to NYC. Just think of how many people complain about paying an income tax for working in Detroit - how would a statewide tax go over? |
Margaret
Member
Username: Margaret
Post Number: 193
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:35 pm: | |
thanks, Thejesus. I'm sure your comment about voting in competent leaders is a valuable one!
thanks, Jt1. I think the idea of opportunity, especially as in access to education, is critical. how would you propose that the city ensure that people can count on the courts and the DPD? I'm sure that is crucial as well.
Gaz, are the most significant divides racial, do you think? or socio-economic? or both? what would be the best action to take to bridge the divides? I think you make a great point here.
and, has the city done much to encourage computer-age "industry," as in data processing-types of "cottage industry?" pardon my ignorance...just putting it out there...I am envisioning the old, abandoned, historical car factories rennovated into some sort of high tech, computer-connected, data processing plants. even if it's been done to some extent, how about more of it? just an idea, that's all... |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10294
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:35 pm: | |
Ward system of City council and something akin to area ombudsmans would be nice to give the citizens greater voice to their officials. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10295
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:41 pm: | |
quote:how would you propose that the city ensure that people can count on the courts and the DPD? I'm sure that is crucial as well.
DPD needs to be revamped from top to bottom imo. I think that there is still too much bureacracy(sp) that takes officers off the street, too much protection of the bad officers (which hurts the majority good officers) and too much work done by DPD that should be civilian work. Since NY was mentioned above they should look at the tons of work that is done by civilian positions. The civilian positions could be staffed much cheaper, less benefits and keep officers on the streets where they are most effective.
The courts are handicapped by lack of space to send criminals but the courts here seem to lack backbone and are all too willing to send felons and repeat offenders back to the streets. IMO this has consequences in multiple areas as it puts criminals back on the streets, adds cases to prosecutors going after the same people and must kill the morale of the officers that arrest the same criminal 10 times just to see them out the next day. If the courts got much tougher it would go a long way. I don't know how much lack of prison space has to do with it or if it is just a court with judges that give lax sentences. |
Margaret
Member
Username: Margaret
Post Number: 194
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:45 pm: | |
Jt1, if what's absolutely needed to help Detroit out of its crisis is a statewide tax, then why not do it? approach legislators, etc. I'm sure the entire state and region is affected by the situation in Detroit.
I have to agree with PG about the public safety aspect. that makes good sense, doesn't it? if people could feel safe, all kinds of things could happen.
as far as how a statewide tax would go over, if it wasn't too high for each individual taxpayer, maybe it would go over fine...? |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10296
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:46 pm: | |
quote:Gaz, are the most significant divides racial, do you think? or socio-economic? or both? what would be the best action to take to bridge the divides? I think you make a great point here.
In good old SE Michigan racism and classism run pretty rampant. I don't know how to deal with either of them.
quote:and, has the city done much to encourage computer-age "industry," as in data processing-types of "cottage industry?"
The city is working on some incubator type things like tech town that will go a long way in the long run but won't have a huge immediate impact. I think that they are trying to market to tech industries as is the whole state but I don't think the state or city are too effective. |
Track75
Member
Username: Track75
Post Number: 2612
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:46 pm: | |
JT and TJ are playing chicken and egg it seems to me.
Bring jobs in, create jobs yourself, what good is it if way too many job candidates have really poor job skills. Detroit is heavy on low-skilled job seekers and light on highly-skilled job seekers.
Unfortunately, we have a dearth of low-skilled jobs and those that exist pay poorly. To increase the number of highly-skilled job seekers there needs to be radical improvements in DPS, the family culture and the outside environment (safety, transit, etc.)
How to do this? Wish I knew. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10297
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:49 pm: | |
quote:Jt1, if what's absolutely needed to help Detroit out of its crisis is a statewide tax, then why not do it? approach legislators, etc. I'm sure the entire state and region is affected by the situation in Detroit.
To be honest the issues in this state and the divides in the state I don't think that the average Michigan citizen would agree to a .01% tax to help Detroit. The contempt for the city is a problem. There are many people that seem to enjoy Detroit's decline and think that it makes their city better. The simple fact is that as the city goes, the State goes. The people in SE Michigan seem to enjoy cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
I hate to say it because a lot of people are suffering but I think that the best thing to push regionalism is the abysmal situation of the State. It is easy to laugh at the struggling until you are struggling yourself. This economic nightmare may be a wake up call to the citizens of the state to realize that we need to work together. |
Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 437
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:50 pm: | |
How about respect for fellow human beings? |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10298
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:50 pm: | |
quote:JT and TJ are playing chicken and egg it seems to me.
Very true. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10299
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:51 pm: | |
quote:How about respect for fellow human beings?
That seems to be needed everywhere in this country. Teaching conflict resolution as a requirement in schools may be a start. |
Track75
Member
Username: Track75
Post Number: 2613
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:55 pm: | |
quote:To be honest the issues in this state and the divides in the state I don't think that the average Michigan citizen would agree to a .01% tax to help Detroit. Yes and no. There are a lot of people with disdain for Detroit. There are also a lot who'd like to see it thrive. If the monies from the additional tax went straight to the Mayor/Council then yes, fat chance of a state or regional tax for Detroit. Most non-Detroiters (and many Detroiters) don't trust them to be good stewards of their money.
If the control were with some other kind of entity, the idea would be received more positively. But the issue of lack of control might doom this idea from the Detroit side. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3237
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:57 pm: | |
If i TRULY believed that the money would be used in the right way, I would throw 100 bucks a year at Detroit for more effective law enforcement. |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2389
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 8:02 pm: | |
A MARSHALL PLAN is needed, period. Detroit saved the USA, now it's time for the USA to save Detroit. Our politicians need to go to congress and plead our case. For one thing, manufacturing, which is the heart of this state, is leaving Michigan, not because we are making crappy products, but because our politicians along with CEOs of major US manufacturing companies want to make all the profits without paying its workers a fair wage. How can Detroit/Michigan compete with $.50 an hour wages being earned in China?
Before another city makes its case for a bailout, Detroit needs to say to Washington that a lot of the downfall of this region is due to failed Washington policies that have doomed major manufacturing cities like Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh to second-world, if not third-world, conditions.
A Marshall Plan is not a handout, but an opportunity to lift up the lives of Americans who have given a lot to this country. Remember: Detroit industry created the American middle class. I think a return of the favor is rightly deserved.
(Message edited by royce on October 01, 2007) |
Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 3393
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 8:11 pm: | |
Brilliant. If it worked for Europe, why not here?
Bravo. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3240
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 8:11 pm: | |
A Marshall Plan could be a good thing, provided that the opportunities that were provided were not squandered. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10300
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 8:14 pm: | |
The Midwest has very little representation in Washington compared to other regions. To the Coasts, and southwest the midwest is a punchline. The omney would never be approved, if anything the policies in Washington will continue to hurt the Midwest, driving out population and representation. The Midwest must save itself because much of the country doesn't care. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3394
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 8:33 pm: | |
quote:The Midwest has very little representation in Washington compared to other regions.
Congresspersons for Rust Belt States:
New York - 29
Pennsylvania - 19
Ohio - 18
Michigan - 15
Indiana - 9
Illinois - 19
Wisconsin - 8
and hell, Missouri too - 9
That's a total of 126 Congressmen (out of 435), plus 16 senators--not an insignificant percentage. Even higher if you add the manufacturing states in New England, plus New Jersey. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3243
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 8:36 pm: | |
I will email Senator's Levin and Stabenow and see what they think.
At the very least we should not be a net federal tax donor as we are now. It would be nice to at least get back what we pay given our circumstances. |