Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Demolition has begun at Novi's fountain walk Previous Next
Top of pageBottom of page

56packman
Member
Username: 56packman

Post Number: 861
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 7:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The claw has had a busy day

FW demo 1

FWD2

FWD3

your roving DYES reporter
Top of pageBottom of page

Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1011
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 8:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A true waste of money.....
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3466
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 8:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Indeed...

How is that for market forces?
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitplanner
Member
Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 650
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 8:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't stop! Rip it all down!!
Top of pageBottom of page

Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 4413
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 8:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What a great site for a cornfield.
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 254
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 8:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So they tore the whole thing down? Even that store and the movie theater?
Top of pageBottom of page

Bussey
Member
Username: Bussey

Post Number: 463
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 8:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes but they are planning on rebuilding it in a more shopping conducive way...what ever that means.

I don't care what they build I am going to be going to "The Mall" at Partridge Creek. Even though Taubman has Lakeside just TWO MILES down Hall Rd I think that it will be a better mall since it is OUTDOORS like the old Northland.


What are these fools thinking.


Why couldn't we have just left downtown Detroit as it was in the 40's and 50's then we would have an intense critical mass, the supporting infrastructure, and one bass ass city to be proud not defensive of!


History is cruel sometimes.


By the way I was joking about "The Mall"

I'd rather go venturing around the retail fragments left on Grand River and Greenfield than trek out to that banal wasteland.

(Message edited by bussey on December 28, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Jenniferl
Member
Username: Jenniferl

Post Number: 346
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 9:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd never even heard of Fountain Walk until Lowell put up pictures of it as part of his newest tour. I still haven't decided whether I find the look of the place horrifying or kind of interesting. However, I do give the original builders credit for making it look different from every other mall in town.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thnk2mch
Member
Username: Thnk2mch

Post Number: 565
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 9:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is an article and renderings of the new look and what is getting demolished.
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20061221/BIZ/6 12210432/1001
From The Detroit News
Top of pageBottom of page

Gsgeorge
Member
Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 61
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 9:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hurrah!!!!! i really hope these suburban developers learned their lesson. bring back the grid!!
Top of pageBottom of page

Brandon48202
Member
Username: Brandon48202

Post Number: 137
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 9:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the Det News article:

"The owners have attributed the mall's low occupancy to its poor design"

Gee, I guess that oversupply of retail in the area has nothing to do with it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rustic
Member
Username: Rustic

Post Number: 3071
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 9:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

damn scrappers!
Top of pageBottom of page

Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11058
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 9:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tell me they saved Hooters and BW3's!
Top of pageBottom of page

Thnk2mch
Member
Username: Thnk2mch

Post Number: 566
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 9:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The article says they are going to tear down 350,000 square foot and build 350,000 square foot new.


quote:

HHT Devco's new plans call for 350,000 square feet of existing retail space on the north end -- about half the mall -- to be demolished.







quote:

Under the reconfiguration, fountains will be relocated and 350,000 square feet of new retail space will be built.


Top of pageBottom of page

Thnk2mch
Member
Username: Thnk2mch

Post Number: 567
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 9:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hooters and BW3's should be safe Supersport.
Top of pageBottom of page

Sticks
Member
Username: Sticks

Post Number: 168
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 10:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenniferl, making it different isn't always making it better - or worse for that matter - but they definitely didn't make it better in this case.

And I'm surprised no one is throwing a fit at these people with what they could have done with the money they're losing from this mistake. They can design and build what amounts to a refrigerator box, take a hit in the pocket every month for lack of sales/vacancy, decide that they need to tear it down, hire a contractor to actually tear that schitt down, lose money on any potentially displaced retail, and then rebuild the damn thing.

Why not have put that money towards rehabbing some buildings in Detroit, CBD or elsewhere. Hell, or even built the thing right in the first place and in the correct location because someone clearly didn't do a proper market study on the area..
Top of pageBottom of page

Qweek
Member
Username: Qweek

Post Number: 106
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 10:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The perfect place for the People Mover II, Novi Expo Center to the mall on the south eastern side of the freeway to Twelve Oaks to Fountain Walk.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3370
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 10:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Detroit News article said that the mall was sold in 2005. So whoever bought it probably got it cheap (it was a failure to begin with), so demoing part of it won't impact them, as it did the original owners.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1838
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 11:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It actually went bankrupt and the bank sold it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Futurecity
Member
Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 425
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 11:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now if they would only tear down Twelve Jokes across the street and re-plant about 50,000 trees, then we'd be talking.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ventura67
Member
Username: Ventura67

Post Number: 100
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 11:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Get rid of all the suburbs north and west of Farmington as far as I care!
Top of pageBottom of page

East_detroit
Member
Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 896
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 11:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tear that schitt down!
Top of pageBottom of page

Mdoyle
Member
Username: Mdoyle

Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 12:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Even though Taubman has Lakeside just TWO MILES down Hall Rd"

Lakeside is a General Growth Properties (GGP) mall now. Taubman sold it which is why he is building the mall at partridge creek now. He's trying to capitalize on the high end outdoor mall craze like rochester village.
Top of pageBottom of page

Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1993
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 12:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tear that schitt down.........of course that originated here by Rasputn and he was talking about Detroits old bldgs.

I am no supporter of fountain walk or whatever t is called.But the same retarded lame vindictive and oh so boringly predictable responses are here for all to read.So dignified of all of you to take pleasure in the misfortune of others.

Sticks what a wonderful idea to take all this $$ and rehab old bldgs in Detroit..........here is an idea take your money and do it if it is such a splendid idea.
Top of pageBottom of page

Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11061
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 12:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think they should tear Ann Arbor down, just to piss you off CL.

How ya like me now?
Top of pageBottom of page

Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1995
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 12:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love you sport.
Top of pageBottom of page

Beadgrl
Member
Username: Beadgrl

Post Number: 93
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 8:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FW was very poorly planned. I hate to see such a waste of money and time. Like Novi needs more shopping!
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 431
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 10:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow, that rendering from the article looks really nice...

I really do love that area at Novi and Grand River...12 oaks is easily the nicest shopping mall in the region, and this new construction will make the area even better...

sux that it's so far from the city though...
Top of pageBottom of page

Commodore64
Member
Username: Commodore64

Post Number: 247
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 11:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Look at all that great building material going to waste!
Top of pageBottom of page

Wazootyman
Member
Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 176
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 12:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Why not have put that money towards rehabbing some buildings in Detroit, CBD or elsewhere."

If nothing else, you can be absolutely sure that they're making the decision that will net them the most money. I don't think a mall developer has any business rehabbing buildings downtown unless they specifically have experience in such matters anyway.

You'd be a fool to deny that, love it or hate it, Novi is a hotspot for retail.
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 255
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 12:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The rendering looks pretty much like the style of the one they tore down. Maybe they're gonna center it in the parking lot? After navigating that mammoth sized parking lot (like I was in a game of Frogger) I never felt much like strolling around and exploring the area. I think it's destined to fail again...
Top of pageBottom of page

Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 1007
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 1:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

welcome to Michigan,it will only get worse
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 432
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 1:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

god the bias against developments in the suburbs around here is sickening...

all of these statements knocking the style of this development are really just people pissed that they can't put something together like this in their own neighborhoods...

If this thing were being built in Detroit, then everyone would be commenting on how nice it looks and what a great addition to the city it would be...

newsflash people...if you all want to see more development in the city, knocking what suburbanites are are doing all the time is not going to help your cause any...

I'd love to see something like this get built in downtown Detroit, but the fact is there's not enough money or interest in shopping down there right now to justify something like this...but this is no reason to shit on the people of Novi for taking affirmative steps to improve their city...

(Message edited by thejesus on December 29, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 256
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 1:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not really... I don't even live in Detroit. My neighborhood in Manhattan is thriving pretty nicely. I'm just saying...
Top of pageBottom of page

Fastcarsfreedom
Member
Username: Fastcarsfreedom

Post Number: 101
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 3:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well said thejesus--sometimes in their very admirable zeal for a brighter future for the city, people become viciously provincial in their thinking. There were a number of reasons Fountain Walk didn't work--but knocking Twelve Oaks??? You may not like Twelve Oaks but it's just about the most successful regional mall in Southeastern Michigan. I post on a number of these type of forums--I'm excited by urbanism and renewal--but I'm always discouraged by how narrow the thinking can be (anti-suburban). The suburbs have been thriving now for 50 years--say what you will, but I think that is the smell of Folgers brewing. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon--time to think about co-existence.
Top of pageBottom of page

Track75
Member
Username: Track75

Post Number: 2469
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 3:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All the schadenfreude concerning the failure, partial demo and reconstruction of Fountain Walk seems out of character for the Detroitophiles who revel in their gritty independence. It sounds more like an insecure 13-y/o girl dishing dirt on her former best friend.

FW was poorly designed. So was the RenCen. Would some suburbanite grave-dancing have been the appropriate response when GM decided they had to try to mitigate the terrible public space design a few years back?
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 426
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 5:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The suburbs have been thriving now for 50 years--




Since 1930, the tri-county area outside of the City of Detroit has consistently had a higher population growth rate than the City, which makes it 76 years now, and still counting.

{sources: "Emergence and Growth of an Urban Region - the Developing Urban Detroit Area"; SEMCOG)
Top of pageBottom of page

Fastcarsfreedom
Member
Username: Fastcarsfreedom

Post Number: 103
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 6:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the correction Mikeg, I normally try to be spot on with my facts, but was shooting from the hip, thanks for the clarification.

Where are Lowell's pictures of Fountain Walk? Can't find the tour in question.

Fountain Walk's troubles illustrate a few important points--namely that anchor stores, as outdated as they might seem, still drive traffic (see Partridge Creek) and the long-term viability of outdoor lifestyle centers in northern climates is open for debate (as someone pointed out, Northland was once such a "lifestyle center") Will be interesting to see how Fallen Timbers, a similar development in Maumee does (The Toledo area is getting a P.F. Chang's).

I for one froze my cojones off at the Streets of Woodfield, a similar set up outside Chicago, and once tried to brave Fountain Walk in January...it wasn't pretty.
Top of pageBottom of page

East_detroit
Member
Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 897
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 6:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CL sez: "I am no supporter of fountain walk or whatever t is called.But the same retarded lame vindictive and oh so boringly predictable responses are here for all to read.So dignified of all of you to take pleasure in the misfortune of others."

Thats ironic, considering that you consistently slam Detroit from your suburban "Stop Rape" enclave. Further ironic that you slam Detroit on the basis of crime, which you yourself participated in and furthered in our fine city. How many people did you help push over the precipice from whence they never returned?

And now you try this lame "lets segregate those we dont like into groups that we can call names" like a 3rd grader.

If you dont like Detroit, then do something to help fix the mess you helped create!
Top of pageBottom of page

Sticks
Member
Username: Sticks

Post Number: 169
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 7:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To the few of you flaming me for suggesting that the money be spent repairing existing structures in the CoD, touche, I guess I deserve it for not RTFA. If this was one company doing the whole bit, that would be ridiculous, but it was one company that built it and went into some financial trouble, so another company took over. Makes sense.

But then look at my next sentence: Hell, or even built the thing right in the first place and in the correct location because someone clearly didn't do a proper market study on the area.. They seemingly didn't do enough research and failed in the suburbs. Would we have rather seen them fail in the city? I rather would not have seen them fail at all because honestly, building that thing out in BFE Novi doesn't really affect me living in CBD Detroit.

I wanted to include that for people that would, at some point or another, come out and call me a moron for suggesting that a company should have invested in a city that was here before Novi, will be here after Novi, and will always be considered home to more people. I apologize for being defensive but context is a bitch, isn't it?
Top of pageBottom of page

Missnmich
Member
Username: Missnmich

Post Number: 552
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 7:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where are Lowell's pictures of Fountain Walk? Can't find the tour in question


Look to the left "In search of Community"
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitplanner
Member
Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 658
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 30, 2006 - 12:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bussey,

I will echo that Taubman sold Lakeside shortly befire announcing Partidge Creek. Taubman was also involved with Fountain Walk early on, but got out before it opened. I'm sure he saw that leasing was rough, and that the area was overstored. He already controls 12 Oaks and West Oaks. He does not need more square feet there. His locations are better than this one. The location of this place reminds me of those dammed "Country Kitchens" or whatever those things are called on the side of the freeway with the big assed signs. You can see em from the freeway, but getting to them is next to impossible.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 655
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 30, 2006 - 12:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I'm excited by urbanism and renewal--but I'm always discouraged by how narrow the thinking can be (anti-suburban). The suburbs have been thriving now for 50 years--say what you will, but I think that is the smell of Folgers brewing. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon--time to think about co-existence.




It's not that most people here are against development in the suburbs, but for responsible development. One just has to look at what has happened to many inner ring suburb shopping centers to seen where this new generation sprawl is headed. This region has been cannibalized by developments like FW. Maybe the current and hopefully continued failure of FW will serve as a wake up that that endless building in the "it" suburb isn't always a key to success.


quote:

If this thing were being built in Detroit, then everyone would be commenting on how nice it looks and what a great addition to the city it would be...




No, there'd be a contingent of people complaining about building something so suburban in the city. There were plenty of complaints about the new Staples on Jefferson.



quote:

but this is no reason to shit on the people of Novi for taking affirmative steps to improve their city...




Why shouldn't we shit on the very thing that has been killing us? We know this type of development isn't sustainable and sooner that this is realized the better off the entire region will be.
Top of pageBottom of page

Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2000
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 30, 2006 - 2:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

East Detroit why you choose to divert this thread in such a silly way is.........your affair.......but whatever you are trying to say I am wholly uninterested. So whatever you are asking, implying, declaring,preaching,demanding etc, etc I will give you my only answer to this nonsense_
Top of pageBottom of page

Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 5350
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 31, 2006 - 9:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Fountain Walk is DOOMED TO FAILURE outdoor shopping mall only being in business for about 6 years. That was a waste of good wood, brick, concrete, steel and metal and millions of dollars on corporate investments and Novi tax paying dollars. Looks like 12 Oaks Mall just across the won the battle of the malls.
Top of pageBottom of page

Hybridy
Member
Username: Hybridy

Post Number: 58
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 1:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hoorah
down with Hall road
Top of pageBottom of page

Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11066
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 10:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

FW was poorly designed. So was the RenCen. Would some suburbanite grave-dancing have been the appropriate response when GM decided they had to try to mitigate the terrible public space design a few years back?




I personally like the RenCen, always have. I think it has a very futuristic deisign outside, and even more so inside. Walking around the middle catwalks I feel as if it is an office building of the future, one in which hardly seems nearly 30 years old.

Fountain Walk on the other hand, it was nothing more than a HUGE strip mall, except instead of having parking just out front, had parking all the way around, with a 1 mile or so driveway leading back to it. Personally, it doesn't matter what they rebuild, it will still be a failure. It's set way too far off the main road, doesn't have sufficient residential within walking distance, and will likely never meet the expected success by it's planners.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez

Post Number: 94
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 11:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I personally like the RenCen, always have. I think it has a very futuristic deisign outside, and even more so inside. Walking around the middle catwalks I feel as if it is an office building of the future, one in which hardly seems nearly 30 years old.



um....it sounds like you are talking about the post-500 million dollar renovation Ren Cen....the glass catwalk (the "circulation ring") was part of GM's efforts to fix the horrid original design. They did a lot of work to fix the poor layout, to the tune of around half a billion dollars.
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 258
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 12:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd hardly call the highest foreclosure rate and flight rate in the country "thriving"...
Top of pageBottom of page

Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 5366
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 5:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Supersport,

Whoever planned that outdoor shopping mall had made a terrible mistake of setting up that location next to another popular mall called 12 Oaks.
Top of pageBottom of page

Zephyrprocess
Member
Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 192
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 9:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah--proximity to 12 Oaks sure killed the West Oaks Mall across Novi Rd, and the Novi Town Centre, across I-96.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.