  Dpd_blue Member Username: Dpd_blue Post Number: 170 Registered: 05-2005 |
A woman was found shot near Monroe and Beaubien in the alley at approx 4:30 pm today. Maybe downtown isn't as safe a Kwame wants us to think. More police are needed citywide and a justice system that actually punishes the offenders. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 174 Registered: 10-2006 |
Well with someone being shot in an alley downtown at 4:30pm it is very likely that someone would have heard that gun shot. Should be more easily prosecutable. Perhaps the person was moved there after the murder and it didn't occur where the body was found! Maybe downtown is actually safer than you want us to think. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 4468 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yeesh, here we go again! | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 369 Registered: 09-2006 |
Is that murder number 3 so far? | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 255 Registered: 05-2006 |
Channel 7 just reported that she was found behind the Second Baptist Church and that the evidence of a "conflict" was found in the basement of the church. More terrible news for downtown. | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 876 Registered: 11-2004 |
Channel 7 just reported that evidence connected with the shooting was found in the basement of Second Baptist Church. Nothing on their website yet. I provide a link ASAP. later - naturalsister | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1021 Registered: 03-2006 |
I live right there but wasnt home at 430 there is a lot of foot traffic right here all day and a little at night | ||
Aschar76 Member Username: Aschar76 Post Number: 55 Registered: 11-2006 |
Maybe the Fireworks shooter is back. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 433 Registered: 07-2004 |
I don't think its a big deal. Murders can happen anywhere. It does not mean downtown is not safe. Most murders are not random. If you are not doing anything wrong and in with the wrong crowd, then your chances of being shot are pretty low. But I really don't see all the fuss because someone gets shot downtown. That can happen anywhere, and it does not mean downtown is unsafe or anything. Someone was murdered 2min from my house in a strip mall a couple years ago. Does that mean my area is unsafe? No it does not. Its just something that happens sometimes. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 750 Registered: 02-2006 |
Miketoronto, the concern on this site is not that downtown is unsafe, but that with this news, all the momentum gained lately will be lost on people that THINK downtown is now unsafe again. People will say "same old, same old" whether it's true or not. Many other cities get a free pass on this kind of stuff, but Detroit does not. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 150 Registered: 07-2006 |
Here we go again...Mike, the fact that someone was murdered two minutes from your house in a strip mall a couple years ago surely does not mean that your area is unsafe. And you are also correct that most murders are not random, and that if you stay out of the wrong crowd, your chances of being shot are extremely low. At the same time, you have to recognize that crime is a problem in Detroit. Two murders downtown in three days is two too many, regardless of the cause. And regardless of the cause, it will harm the city's image. (Some who do not know any better may figure, if the city can't keep downtown safe, what is the rest of it like?) For those reasons, Detroit must allocate more resources towards crime fighting. Detroit's downtown is in the midst of a revival, but the revival will move forward even more quickly if crime went down to levels found in other cities. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11077 Registered: 10-2003 |
Blame it on global warming. If it was 10-20 degrees out, we wouldn't have these murders yet. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2022 Registered: 06-2004 |
Focusonthed - The concern on this site should be that three human beings were apparently senselessly murdered in the last 2 days. The concern should be that we are raising a generation of people who have no concept of how to be a human being. The concern should be that we have allowed the gap between rich and poor, educated and un-educated, just and un-just, fit and un-fit, to continue grow. Why all the concern about downtown momentum? does that matter? Certainly not to the three people or to their family. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 434 Registered: 07-2004 |
I understand what you guys are talking about. But the people who would avoid downtown due to these murders, are already not coming downtown. The people who are going into the city are coming anyway and know they are safe. These murders might have an effect on a couple people on the edge of the fence so to speak. But I have faith these will not cause any serious problems in the revival. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1228 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mafia? | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3830 Registered: 10-2003 |
Blame it on Bush. It is all W's fault | ||
Matt Member Username: Matt Post Number: 1148 Registered: 10-2003 |
Wait, I'm confused. Did it happen in a basement or a parking lot? Did it even happen at all?? | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 431 Registered: 05-2005 |
Wake up. There is no will to fight crime in Detroit. Detroiters have exactly the kind of police force that they want - one that reacts to crime vs one that actively works to prevent crime. A pro-active police force is not allowed in Detroit. The people of this city won't stand for it. They prefer instead to be beaten, raped, robbed and killed, en masse. This has been the case for years and years. And will continue to be for years and years to come. Watch. Or better yet, keep a tally and see for yourself. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 424 Registered: 06-2005 |
"But the people who would avoid downtown due to these murders, are already not coming downtown." I don't think that is exactly true. I know many people from the suburbs who over the past few years have started visiting downtown again. These murders will cause many of them to think twice, or even worse make it difficult for them to convince their friends and family to join them. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1230 Registered: 11-2003 |
I would tend to agree with Johnny. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 257 Registered: 05-2006 |
Last night, I called my mom and asked if she and my sister would like to go to Greektown on Saturday night. I told her we would start by attending mass at Old St. Mary's, then have dinner, and then go to Campus Martius. It sounds kind of tourist-y, but she's 70 and has probably been within the city limits 10 times in her life. I thought it would be fun for her since I assume the church and CM will still have the Christmas decorations up. Her first response was "Did you hear about the two people that were murdered down there?". I convinced her that it was a work place incident that could happen any where and that we would be safe. Now, this happens in Greektown. I intentionally avoided calling her tonight. I am hoping that this incident has a similar explanation. Don't get me wrong, all crime is bad. I am just responding to an original poster who said it would be hard for some people to convince family and friends to visit Detroit. I am in the middle of such a situation. I am anxious to see if she cancels or still wants to go. I'll let you know what she decides and if the recent crimes influenced her decision. (Message edited by wash_man on January 03, 2007) | ||
Dhugger Member Username: Dhugger Post Number: 166 Registered: 03-2005 |
My prayers are with the families who lost loved ones. No doubt our city will get scared from these senseless acts of violence. Press is in from all over the world for the Auto Show right now. It is just never convenient to have murders in the city no matter the time of year. Peace | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 261 Registered: 05-2006 |
http://wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_local_ news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15924 _5254517,00.html | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3836 Registered: 10-2003 |
Shot in the leg? She must have bled pretty damn bad. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 656 Registered: 11-2004 |
Downtown homicides from, over the last six years, have remain consistently around 8-9 and 2005 saw the lowest amount with five. I'd expect 2006 numbers to be similar. Yet, lately it seems when someone is killed downtown there is endless hand ringing about if this will spell the end for downtown revival. Compare that to when papers ran stories about the increase in crime citywide. I didn't see a single mention of it, no thread, no concern, that this was bad news for city. Get some perspective people, these higher overall crime numbers are going to have a much bigger effect in the long run than downtown murders which have always been rare. (Message edited by eric on January 03, 2007) (Message edited by eric on January 03, 2007) | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1168 Registered: 12-2003 |
What I find disappointing is that the minister of the church, talking about the shock of having someone murdered in the basement of such a historic place, said "Well maybe it's just a sign of the times." Hello? "sign of the times"? Meaning, this sh-t happens and oh well? That's what got us to this point, the feeling that somehow "modern life" in the year 2007 consists of people killing each other with little feeling for what they've done. I'm sorry but they used to do that in the '20s, in this city too...so it's not some inexorable march toward anarchy. Saying it's a "sign of the times" as if we can't do anything about it, that attitude has to change. | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 432 Registered: 05-2005 |
^^Exactly! See my above post about how Detroiters have absolutely no desire to fight crime. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1169 Registered: 12-2003 |
I don't think the population "prefers" to be beaten, raped etc. to having a strong police force. But I don't think there is the WILL to force their elected officials to make this a priority. To say Detroiters want to endure crime, that's going too far. But everybody was so intent on showing the suburbs they were standing behind their guy Kwame, that they sold their safety and well being down the river to make a point. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1503 Registered: 11-2003 |
Agreed on your comments about the minister, Pffft. Here's one to ponder: Given what we know about the murder rates in the city & suburbs over the last 80 years or so, I'd guess that the murder rate in *Metro* Detroit is roughly the same now as it was in the 1920's. The only difference is that the region has spread out so that the higher-crime core area now happens to coincide with the boundaries of the city of Detroit. (Which obviously does not mean that it's OK to have a high crime rate, yada yada yada. Improving the crime situation would be a boon to the city. But crime in Metro Detroit overall is not nightmarishly higher than it was 80 years ago, so I get sick of this "sign of the times" bullshit as well.) | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1504 Registered: 11-2003 |
I half agree with your point, but I don't agree that it will continue to be the case for many years. There are too many demographic changes going on in the region to believe that things will just stay as they are for the next 50 years. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1170 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yeah that minister needs to look at a 1920s newspaper to get a sense of just how bloody this city was then. And it wasn't just gangsters killing gangsters, a lot of innocents were caught in the crossfire, and a lot of it was on downtown streets, in restaurants, etc. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 612 Registered: 08-2005 |
Does anyone know the final number of murders for Detroit in 2006? All I could find was this freep article that puts the number of murders in Detroit at 408 as of December 26: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20061227/NEW S01/612270382/1003/NEWS01 Even if the number remained at 408 (which I doubt), that would still represent a whopping 14% increase in murders from last year. Things are not well in Detroit, dismissing it by saying "crime happens everywhere" is irresponsible. Detroit might very well end up having the highest murder rate per capita of all big cities in the country, that type of thing sure as shit does NOT happen everywhere! Wake the fuck up, crime is a problem, start offering solutions instead of downplaying the severity of the problem. | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 433 Registered: 05-2005 |
The mayor's hands are tied. If he even suggested pro-active policing to reduce crime, all hell would rain down on him. Crime will continue. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 820 Registered: 11-2005 |
Why not take her on Sunday morning instead? Daytime might be less intimidating for a non-frequent visitor. As for the crime issue- a pro-active police force can help against some things such as the car break ins mentioned in other threads. How could they have prevented a "crime of passion" like the Cheli's murders though? | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1171 Registered: 12-2003 |
I hear what you're saying, but I wouldn't call the Cheli's murders a crime of "passion." Rather, that was a very cold-blooded murder. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 336 Registered: 11-2003 |
Better opportunities, better education system, more parent involvement. Maybe if he thought he actually had a future and was looking forward to attending university and had other things going on this wouldn't have happened. The police maybe couldn't have prevented the Cheli's murders but maybe if this city demanded a higher quality of life things would be different. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 822 Registered: 11-2005 |
If he was acting out of uncontrollable rage, I would say that falls under a crime of passion. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1172 Registered: 12-2003 |
To stab two people several times takes it out of the realm of "uncontrollable rage," for me...it's not like shooting somebody. He had plenty of time to stop what he was doing. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 823 Registered: 11-2005 |
But the fact he didn't stop is why I said "uncontrollable" and the stabbing to me suggests rage. You have to be a lot more crazy to choose a knife as a weapon. A gun is lot easier. Anyway, I guess we won't know his motives or reasons until the trial, maybe not even then. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1173 Registered: 12-2003 |
When lawyers talk about uncontrollable rage in assault and murder cases like this, one of the key issues is whether the person's "rage" had time to cool down. In this case you couldn't say it was a momentary loss of control. He seemed to know exactly what he was doing. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 7821 Registered: 12-2003 |
Plenty of time to act rational. So if he didn't act in time, he wasn't rational. Multiple stab wounds imply passion, not the other way around. After a certain point, it is much more than getting the 'job' done. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1174 Registered: 12-2003 |
We agree then that he had plenty of time to stop -- but not on whether it was a hot-blooded or cold-blooded crime... | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 198 Registered: 05-2006 |
Attack in Greektown church kills woman | ||
Reetz12 Member Username: Reetz12 Post Number: 118 Registered: 09-2005 |
How would more police pressence helped both of these murders? One in a basement of a church another in the kitchen of a restaurant! Now if these murders would have been on the ice rink at CM or walking in front of some restaurants on Monroe, then we could complain. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2008 Registered: 07-2004 |
He allegedly stabs two people and then takes money from the safe.....how can that possibly be passion Gannon? The idea is preposterous. At any time he could have stopped and then to stab the woman is clearly a premeditated act as well as taking the money | ||
Superduperman Member Username: Superduperman Post Number: 180 Registered: 01-2005 |
Its sounds like all of his actions were irrational from beginning to end,he only went there to talk about his tips and it escalated into murder and robbery. If his sole intention was flat out murder and robbery there would have not been any argument between the young man and the victim and would have probably killed more people. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 668 Registered: 01-2005 |
The legal definition of a crime of passion (which I think would be contradicted by his taking possession of a butcher knife from the kitchen. It would appear that he took it and went upstairs to threaten to kill): "n. a defendant's excuse for committing a crime due to sudden anger or heartbreak, in order to eliminate the element of "premeditation." This usually arises in murder or attempted murder cases, when a spouse or sweetheart finds his/her "beloved" having sexual intercourse with another and shoots or stabs one or both of the coupled pair. To make this claim the defendant must have acted immediately upon the rise of passion, without the time for contemplation or allowing for "a cooling of the blood." It is sometimes called the "Law of Texas" since juries in that state are supposedly lenient to cuckolded lovers who wreak their own vengeance. The benefit of eliminating premeditation is to lessen the provable homicide to manslaughter with no death penalty and limited prison terms. An emotionally charged jury may even acquit the impassioned defendant." | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 275 Registered: 02-2006 |
Do Detroit Police not walk the beat anymore? There is a cop on almost every corner in New York, always a presence somewhere. 313 | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3517 Registered: 10-2003 |
New York got a tax base, a metro region, and a state that supports its main city... Therefore they can afford the extra protection... | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1276 Registered: 10-2003 |
They don't seem to believe in the beat-cop concept here. Cops would rather just cruise around in their patrol cars. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 825 Registered: 11-2005 |
Arrest made in church killing: http://www.detnow.com/wxyz/nw_ local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ _15924_5258804,00.html | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 26 Registered: 02-2004 |
"If the city demanded a higher quality of life" You cannot do that without bringing commerce and people into the city. -Circle of Frustration, PZ | ||
Christos Member Username: Christos Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2006 |
Is it just me, or didn't Detroit have a bad start like that last year? | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 197 Registered: 08-2006 |
It appears this was not an act of random violence, but another crime of passion. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070105/NEW S99/70105004/1048/SPORTS
| ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1290 Registered: 11-2003 |
Oh, well, that makes it all better... | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 269 Registered: 05-2006 |
That doesn't make it all better. It means there isn't some random killer out there. | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 198 Registered: 08-2006 |
Susanarosa--It's a tragedy for the victim and those who knew her, no question. But Wednesday evening, Wash_man posted:
Ruling out random violence does matter when considering whether you wish to visit a location. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 270 Registered: 05-2006 |
BTW We're going. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1175 Registered: 12-2003 |
This annoys me... today for the first time, I saw a man urinating right out in public, by the sidewalk on Shelby just north of Congress. He was technically in the alley right next to that club that used to be the Michigan National Bank. But he was maybe three inches from the sidewalk, so he might as well have been right in the street. It was 2 p.m. I mean, I've worked downtown for years...years. And that's a first, in broad daylight. With auto show visitors about to converge on the city. As crimes go, it's not huge. But I'm a female, and it's gross, I'm sorry. I hate to think of children walking on the sidewalk, seeing that. But it's Detroit, so nobody would let their children walk there, right? What really annoyed me is, I realized when I got back to work, if it was any other city or suburb I probably would have called the police to alert them to a man exposing himself on a downtown street, in broad daylight. But they'd probably laugh if I called the Detroit police. | ||
Michmeister Member Username: Michmeister Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2006 |
Lady, it`s disgusting for a man too.The absolute lowest form of littering. | ||
Michigansheik Member Username: Michigansheik Post Number: 171 Registered: 09-2005 |
too much politics involved here in Detroit to fight crime the way they did in NYC when Rudy took over!! If the cops are too rough and agressive, the chief and mayor take the heat, no pun intended. Proactive only works when everyone is on board and as some have already said, we talk about wanting less crime but in reality no one wants the tough ass cops or parents needed. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 178 Registered: 11-2006 |
Ooooooh nooooo Sheik! Police using force against criminals????? We can't have that at all Police shouldn't beat the tar out of innocent, law abiding citizens, so....maybe if you aren't doing anything wrong you don't have to worry. Here's an idea: if you break a law, you don't get to decide your punishment. You may get the crap beat out of you. DON'T COMMIT A FELONY. DON'T HANG OUT WITH FELONS. STAY HOME. QUITE MAKING EXCUSES FOR YOURSELF AND EVERYONE YOU DEEM REPRESSED. I am so sick of people making bad choices and taking it out on law abiding people. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3553 Registered: 10-2003 |
They tried that once. I believe it was a Unit called STRESS. From what I had heard they literally were terrorizing the citizens of the city back in the 70's so CAY had the unit disbanded under public pressure. I may be mistaken so anyone who is more knowledgable about them please correct. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 5708 Registered: 09-2005 |
Yes, it was called STRESS (Stop The Robberies, Enjoy Safe Streets) The purpose was to have plainclothes cops catch armed robbers in the act. It was extremely successful and cut crime. Instead of just breaking up robberies, though, the perps always tried to shoot it out with the cops, and the cops always won. STRESS was deemed a terror alright - to criminals. Unfortunately, the majority of robbers shot dead during armed robberies were African Americans so things took the normal course of events - there was alot of whining, Coleman Young stepped in and joined the citizens calling it "racist" and the unit was disbanded. You all know the rest of the story: since then Detroit has thrived, crime has dropped because the majority population in the city (African American) has worked on and corrected the problems themselves rather than rely on the police or pesky outsiders, and murders have been nearly non-existent ever since (this paragraph sarcasm) If I'm not mistaken, STRESS was disbanded, and THEN the COD became the murder capital. (not sarcasm) Even Coleman Young came around, albeit too late. After watching the riots and flight from the City (1960's) and STRESS, along with Murder Capital of the World (1970's) CAY reversed the trend and stepped up hiring, including more minorities (1980's) in the Detroit Police Department. While such actions were helpful, they were bandaids and reactionary to the fundamental problem, which, depending on perspective, was either never addressed or unaddressable: the breakdown of the family in the African American community. (Message edited by karl on January 08, 2007) |
