Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2007 » This is sad year for Detroit Public Schools! « Previous Next »
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5376
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And here's the source:

Breaking News: Dozens Of Schools To Close In Detroit

UPDATED: 5:18 pm EST January 5, 2007

DETROIT -- Detroit Public School Board President Rev. Jimmy Womack said 43 schools are on a recommended list of school closings that was released Friday.

Womack told Local 4 Redford, Chadsey and Mackenzie High Schools are among the schools slated for closure.

School reconfigurations and combined programs could raise the number over 50, Womack said.


The school closures will save the district $18 million a year while keeping the full compliment of academics available. That means the district will keep all special programs, such as advanced art and math classes.

The plan was presented to the Detroit Public Schools Facilities Committee by Superintendent William F. Coleman III and his administration late Friday afternoon.

The full list will be released at 5 p.m. during a public meeting at Spain Elementary School in Detroit.

Womack said the list is a recommended list, which means the public will have an opportunity to have input on the final decisions, and some schools on the list may remain open after all.

The following schools are on the recommended list:

ELEM SCHOOL'S:
ATKINSON
BERRY
BIRNEY
BRADY
CLINTON
COURVILLE
DOSSIN
FAIRBANKS
GENESIS
GREENFIELD PARK
KNIGHTON
HANNEMAN
HEALY INTL
HIGGINS
HUTCHINSON
KOSCIUSKO
MAAT IMHOTEP
MACDOWELL
MACOMB
MASON
MCGREGOR
MONNIER
NORTHWEST ELC
HOLMES
STEWART
THIRKELL
VON STEUBEN


K-8 SCHOOLS:
MAYA ANGELOU
CADILLAC
COOPER
COURTIS
GRANT
MARK TWAIN
SHERRARD
TRIX
WINSHIP


MIDDLE SCHOOLS:
CLEVELAND
LONGFELLOW
MCNAIR


HIGH SCHOOLS:
CHADSEY
COMM & MEDA ARTS
MACKENZIE
REDFORD




Copyright 2007 by ClickOnDetroit.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

TERRIBLE!!! CHARTERS SCHOOLS ARE WINNING AND SO ARE MORE SUBURBAN SCHOOLS. THIS EVENT WOULD EFFECT OVER 119,000 STUDENTS.
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 81
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is really sad. I went to Dossin Elementary in the early 60's while Our Lady Queen of Hope Elementary on Glendale was being built.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 435
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A step in the right direction. Now they just need to shut down the rest of the DPS school system and let the kids go to schools where they can actually have a chance to learn.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2098
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is great news (for those who pay taxes). However, it doesn't cut deeply enough.

DPS schools are only filled to about 65% capacity. So, if DPS schools were fairly similar in size, some one-third of all DPS schools now open should close.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on January 05, 2007)
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Scs100
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Post Number: 111
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard that Guyton was on the list. Am I thinking of the wrong list?
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 22
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LY,

True, but logistically difficult. The more you close the greater the distances and the more complex the transportation need becomes.

Though this does not get them to where they need to be in terms of rationalizing capacity, it IS farther than they have ever gone in the past. That is, if they actually go through with it. Historically, public pressure has led them to reduce the number of closings to where the end result accomplishes very little.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if DPS was allowed (or compelled) to dissolve and divide into multiple school districts. Then, it is likely some of them would compete successfully for students and lead to revitalization of those neighborhoods. Unfortunately, Michigan law (bizarrely) decrees that Detroit shall have precisely one school district.

Prof. Scott
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 398
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why is it sad? It appears to be recognition that a major problem exists w/ the school system (possibly belated recognition) and that appropriate steps had to be taken. I'm surprised it dawned on the Board that the step was necessary. What they should be doing is improving the system so people will come back and they can reopen the schools.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2099
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 6:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When Burnley was at the helm at DPS, his stated goal (as yet unachieved) was to educate children and not to continue in its traditional primary role as an employer of adults and not being a purveyor of graft, cronyism, and corruption. DPS still has a long way to go.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5377
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why is it sad 3rdworldcity,

Because more Detroit parents will send their kids to those EVIL charter schools is those schools close this year.

My prediction for 2020, public schools in Detroit: DPS, 100 schools. Detroit Charter Schools, about 290 in every ghettohood.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2100
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bring on the EVIL.
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 91
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit Rises!
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2101
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is Dds short for Ding Dong School?

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on January 05, 2007)
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 92
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 6:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whatever you want it to stand for Schoolyard. A comeback like that sounds like it belongs at the kiddie table.

(Message edited by dds on January 05, 2007)

(Message edited by dds on January 05, 2007)
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 1029
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Economically, it's a no-brainer. But <sniffle>, goodby to my alma maters of Mackenzie HS and Monnier grade school. They did me well.

Their memories live.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2102
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK. Ding Dong, it is.
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Moreta
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Username: Moreta

Post Number: 290
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 6:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Restructuring is never pleasant. Families get inconvenienced and the district will have a *lot* of work to do to coordinate the closures. Unfortunately, it is necessary. It should have been done years ago.

This state has got to get some kind of grip on its education system. One city shouldn't have kids in four different school districts (Novi). One district shouldn't have such a disproportionate number of high-cost students (the disabled, the disadvantaged, the developmentally delayed) without appropriately higher funding availability. Our school system as a whole is woefully lacking in intelligent design and administration.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 848
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 6:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I teach at the HS level (my school isn't on the list). My classes are oversized (47 kids in each of my 5 classes). I don't think the classes will get larger as teachers will follow their kids. Closing down buildings to save money on utilities, maintaining them, etc is a great idea. I just hope that in closing the schools, the kids don't suffer. DPS already has no bus service for high school kids and they rely on city bus service to get them to school. With kids having to travel farther, there are new concerns such as safety, punctuality, and parental involvement.

If they pack more kids into a classroom, instead of making classes smaller (which they would be able to do with more teachers per building), that would not be a positive. The community needs to demand they use the school closings to benefit the kids. Have smaller classes, more services, extra curriculars, etc.

I don't see this as a negative but an opportunity to do something positive. NOW...if DPS gets it's collective head out of its behind, they could do so much to benefit the kids with the added resources (books, desks, teachers, security, etc... equally distributed among the rest of the schools).
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Smogboy
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Username: Smogboy

Post Number: 4211
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not sure what's going on but the list they have on the Freep is a little longer.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070105/NEW S01/70105031

Compare, please!
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 435
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Considering Detroit has a million less people now, I see no issue with some schools being closed.

Yes it means that some neighbourhoods lose a school. But in a city that really has lost so many people, you can't keep the same amount of schools open. It only makes sense that some are going to close as the population of kids is just not there anymore.

I know school closings is a big issue in any place. Many old suburbs now face this with schools being closed down because theres no more kids.

Its just part of the demo.
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65memories
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Post Number: 319
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some schools affected were not on the list. For example, Bates will leave it building (the old Immaculata) and will move to the Beaubien building. Beaubien will close and its 9th grade will move to Mumford, which, with 2100+ students, already is more than the building can handle. The building is designed for about 1800 kids.
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65memories
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Post Number: 320
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some schools affected were not on the list. For example, Bates will leave its building (the old Immaculata) and will move to the Beaubien building. Beaubien will close and its 9th grade will move to Mumford, which, with 2100+ students, already is more than the building can handle. The building is designed for about 1800 kids.
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Mikeg
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Post Number: 434
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is another angle to the school closing decision-making process that is never mentioned. I know that the Michigan birthrate demographics over the 1989 to 2002 period are such that the number of students currently in each grade gets smaller as you go from high school down to KG. I would expect that this demographic trend should also be evident within the DPS. Therefore, even if the overall population of Detroit and the DPS enrollment could be stabilized at its current level, the number of total DPS students would decline every year for the next 12 years. That also means that any overcrowding in the secondary schools as a result of the announced closing plan would become a non-issue within the next three years or so.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2103
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Overcrowding only comes into play at any school when its attendance is high or close to it. The day-to-day truancy rate at DPS schools self-corrects (makes moot) most perceived "overcrowding" problems.

Furthermore, some teachers may state that their (maximum) class sizes are such and such, but a (much?) smaller number of kids are present on a daily basis. Teachers cannot simultaneously complain about high truancy and being over-crowded and expect to be taken seriously.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on January 05, 2007)
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 160
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikeg raises a good point, supposing that his demographics are correct. While it is always disappointing to have to close a school, especially for those students who live closer to it, school closings are a reality the city must face in order to remake itself as a more efficient, liveable city.

In one of the other threads posted tody, and an older thread, we have read about the Shrinking Cities project, and have been given links to articles about Youngstown, Ohio, and today, Richmond, VA. Each of those cities has begun to face the reality of declining populations and begun planning with that in mind. Detroit must do the same, given the fact that the city will not likely repopulate to two million in our lifetimes. That being so, the city needs to face the difficult decisions that come with governing a "shrunken city."

This will mean closing schools, even though it inconveniences some students living close to that school. Of course, this must be done smartly, and according to a plan. The closings could certainly result in a worse schools and more overcrowding, but if done properly, the system will ultimately make better use of its money, and provide better services to its students.
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Detroitplanner
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Post Number: 688
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What did you expect? You got charters and cross district schooling under Engler, those pretty much did both the parochial and public schools in for Detroit.

I'd rather see fewer, higher quality schools. I am surprised that Redford and Mackenzie are closing though. However, many new high schools have opened in Detroit over the past several years without closing new ones. Those include Rennaisance, Fine and Performing Arts, Gohlightly.
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 908
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone have any stats on how much money is provided per child for education in Detroit vs some of the suburbs? Not just the State amount provided, but including local millages.
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Firstandten
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Post Number: 52
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a bitter pill but necessary. We Detroiters will have to stop acting like we live in a city of 1 million plus residents. We should have been closing schools all along. If the powers that be had any political heart they would have. Instead now they are going to ask the public to accept the closing of some 50 schools in one shot. Needed, of course but just watch the fallout behind this.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 160
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do groups or organizations buy empty schools these days in Detroit?
I lived down the street from Trix Elem. and worry that having the school empty will impact the neighborhood in a negative way. That area is still hanging in there to a degree.
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 203
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great! Boarded up schools should do wonders for Detroit’s struggling neighborhoods. They shouldn’t be closing schools until other uses for the buildings or property can be found.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 161
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another tour on DY? Oh boy, pass the popcorn :-(
WILL THE SADNESS NEVER END???
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2106
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some residents are having problems paying for the NG to heat their homes. Should DPS keep heating their unneeded energy-inefficient schools all winter long just to keep them open? Right!
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 204
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about the additional costs (bus maintenance, fuel, etc.) to bus students to schools far from their neighborhoods? Also, in many cases newer buildings are scheduled to close while older, less fuel efficient ones are to remain open.
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Cman710
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Post Number: 167
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathinozarks, based on a post a few days ago listing former school properties for sale, it seems that many schools remain vacant. Since the newer buildings will not be sold, those on the market will be the least desirable among the city's school buildings.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 162
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Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for your response to my question Cman. How can it be good for the City to have these empty buildings? If some of Detroit's schools have classes in the 45 student range, could they be re-distributed to the more empty schools and have a more realistic class size?
Is that too simple of me?
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 593
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When was the last happy year? Jesus Christ, DPS has gone from being a laughing stock to just being depressing example of American racism.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2107
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Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Not everybody gets to have a school nearby.

When I attended school through grade 10, I got my own way to or from school. Grades K-8, walked or biked ten blocks, Grade 9 (lucked out--got a ride 15 miles each way), Grade 10 (not so lucky--got a ride in but had to hitch-hike or walk the final six miles home each day past the end of the bus line).

Grades 11 & 12--got on a school bus 1/2 block away--priceless...

We don't have to over-pamper the little darlings. Besides, most of them are obese or are getting there. The walk would do them good.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 595
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Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe Detroit is learning about smart decline. They're just doing it the wrong way. Move what little residents live in abandoned neighborhoods and bring them closer to the center. Detroit should be a city of 60 sq miles rather than 140. Close what schools that haven't already been closed in abandoned areas and focus on the new schools in now denser smaller Detroit.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 164
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Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, Livernoisyard, could Detroit scale back the number of buses that take kids miles away from their homes and save money that way?
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Cman710
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Post Number: 169
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Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathinozarks, I have very, very little knowledge of the layout of the school system, but I can imagine some reasons why there might be overcrowding problems. As an example, consider that you live in Area A of the city. Area A has seen better days but has some good areas and some worse areas. The area has two high schools, High School 1 and High School 2.

High School 1 was built in 1935 for a capacity of 1,000 students. The area surrounding High School 1 suffers from severe blight, which has only gotten worse over the past ten years, and now has only 450 students (45% capacity). The building is in poor condition and costs a large amount of money to maintain, especially because its 50 year old boiler system consistently breaks down.

High School 2 was built in 1979 for a capacity of 1,000 students. The school has a capacity of 1,000 students and while the school had been full to capacity 15 years ago, it now only has 750 students. The building has been well maintained.

In this case, it would make sense to combine the two schools into one school of 1,200 students, a reasonable sized high school. And it makes sense to close High School 1 because the building is old, expensive to operate, and underutilized. But say that all students at High School 1 HAVE to go to High School 2, because no other high schools are within reasonable distance.

If that were the case, the city might decide to close High School 1 and combine it with High School 2. That would mean High School 2 would end up with 1,200 students, 20% over capacity. The city would save costs by closing the old building, but class sizes would increase.

This example demonstrates why closing schools will be hard to do with favorable results. In some situations, some schools may have to be closed, while others at the same time may have to be expanded. This becomes politically problematic, since critics will say, "why expand existing schools when you are closing old ones?" And that is a strong sentiment. But it just remains one aspect of the tough choices facing a shrinking city.

Anyway, I hope my illustration might help a bit.
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 597
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Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bus companies do make a killing off of the whole bussing system. Bring back neighborhood schools! Milwaukee's northwest side is largely rural and yet there is an enormous high school out there. Vincent High School has about 2 thousand students all bussed miles out of the inner city to what is just prarie. Detroit probably doesn't have anything like that but I'm none the less an advocate of neighborhood schools.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2108
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Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do not know whatever regs are in place for bus travel for school kids. Even for the final two years (when I attended a public school for the first time), those students who lived within a certain distance from the high school had to walk or whatever. I lived about three miles away.

DDOT has certain buses scheduled for both regular folks and school kids during those times. Email DDOT for any particulars, if you want any.
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Kathinozarks
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Post Number: 165
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Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 12:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cman, thanks for the example. Seems cut and dried, but really isn't. So many particulars and variables. Sheesh.
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Rosedaleken
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Username: Rosedaleken

Post Number: 273
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Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 1:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Necessary, but those in charge of choosing which schools to closer should be shot. Perhaps they threw darts at a board. There are some awful choices up there.
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 205
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Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 6:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This statement should really bring the neocons out of the woodwork but just to point out how out of whack our priorities are in this country; The U.S. spends more in one week fighting the war in Iraq then the Detroit school system spends in an entire year.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 849
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 6:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In response to LY who said that truancy evens out overcrowded classes...hogwash! My classes have 47 strong (minus a FEW for illness) every day! I have 30 desks. Kids sit on MY home furniture that I took to work. Every seat in my room is filled each day. The other teachers in my building tell the same tale.

Even IF your statement were true (and you really have no facts with which to back up your opinion because you don't even live in Michigan) should it matter that absent kids negate the fact that classes ARE overcrowded? Oversized classes do nothing for students or teachers (remember, teachers grade all that work).

DPS closing schools and pooling resources (books, desks, teachers, etc) into the remaining schools will be better for everyone involved (at least at the high school level).
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Detroitteacher
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Post Number: 850
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Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 6:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote:
If that were the case, the city might decide to close High School 1 and combine it with High School 2. That would mean High School 2 would end up with 1,200 students, 20% over capacity. The city would save costs by closing the old building, but class sizes would increase.
______________________________ ____________________
The overage in classes would not be true if DPS really thinks things through. If they closed schools and saved money on facilities (utilities, taxes, upkeep) and were able to keep most of the teachers and move them to the combined schools, class size would decrease, thus providing the kids what the research says works...smaller class size. If all of the books and desks and "supplies" were also moved to the combined schools, then more resources could be used FOR THE KIDS. I hope they don't stay with past practise and leave all of the materials behind (as has been seen by schools being opened by fire marshals and books and supplies are found sitting in boxes, brand new).

IF DPS does this or not will be anyone's guess. DPS could use these school closings to the kids' advantage but we all know that they don't always think of the kids first.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5379
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 6:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its seems to me that most Detroit elementary schools both the west side and the east side where lots of black folks live are experiencing depopulated student enrollment and so is other middle and high schools in the black community. In the meantime most Detroit elementary, middle and high schools in the southwest side where most Mexicans and Hispanics lived are experiencing rapid student enrollment growth. Will the Detroit School Board send their mostly black kids to any of those mostly Mexican/Hispanic SW Detroit schools? Surely most Mexicans/Hispanics don't want to be bothered with the transfer of Detroit black students from the west and east side. Problably most Detroit black students will be able to send their students to other west and east side schools where student enrollent is high.

You can forget about reducing class sizes Detroitteacher, and the Detroit Federation of Teachers. for it's NOT Going to happen. Just deal with it next fall when you have over 40 to 50 students crammed up in your small 1890s classroom. Most of them are at rist kids who just want to be class clowns.

Today more Charter Schools both in Detroit and Suburbs are experiencing rapid student enrollment. over 2,000 to 4,000 black kids from Detroit and another few thousand from the suburbs are cramming up to those 22nd Century classroom all reduced class sizes. Some Charter schools are installing a waiting list or issue a lottery to see if their student can enroll in those charter schools. Charter Schools are like the growing ROMAN EMPIRE destined to conquer the American free education program destroying any schools in its path. Parochial, Private and even poor public schools, you name it charter schools will destroy it.

The American free education program is NOT a monopoly so it must compete with other artificial public schools to survive or DIE!!!! Detroit Public Schools must do the same, too.
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Tokennojokin
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Username: Tokennojokin

Post Number: 22
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 7:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was bused to hutchinson in the eighties from 7/gratiot and my grandmother also went to hutchinson. they lived across the street from the school. We had the same gym teacher. Only when I had here I think she was the walking dead, thats how old she was. Ms. Alexander
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 851
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 8:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote from Danny:
Most of them are at rist kids who just want to be class clowns.


I disagree, Danny. The kids in my class, for the most part are great kids! The kids are NOT the problem in DPS...it's the top heavy administration (I don't mean Principals and admin IN the schools). My kids work hard because I push them to work hard. My expectations are far above what the student and parents' expectations are and my kids rise to my challenge! I can't say it enough, I love ALL of my students, no matter what the class size. Sure, there are some clowns but they, for the most part, are what make class interesting and refreshing. They don't clown enough to disrupt class but they do bring a new perspective to things and break up the mundane "must do" stuff.

I use those class clowns to my advantage and give them jobs to do (such as lead a group in discussion, since they love to be the center of attention).

You also wondered if the school board would send their kids to SW schools. I really don't think anyone on the board has kids in school (which is one of the problems). I did have Marie Thornton's son in my class a few years back but he graduated.

Also, parents don't have a choice on where to send their kids (for the most part). Boundary lines are in place designating which students go to what school.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 184
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 8:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Anyone have any stats on how much money is provided per child for education in Detroit vs some of the suburbs? Not just the State amount provided, but including local millages."

It is generally more than in the suburbs (maybe about $500 more per pupil), but the inner-city also has many more problems to deal with which do as well require extra money.
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Docmo
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Username: Docmo

Post Number: 199
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 8:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher,
Your passion for your work and your students is commendable.

Is the distressing fact that there are 47 students in your classroom primarily a lack of space within your HS or is it lack of teachers?

Is there any info out there regarding releasing teachers and other in school staff in conjunction with these infrastructure closings?
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 852
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 9:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As far as I know, and from past practise, teachers follow their kids. Whatever schools the kids go to (and they could be spread among several schools) teachers will generally go to those schools to handle the influx of kids.

All of the teachers are experiencing oversized classes (kids, not space) in my school. We have enough space but not enough teachers in particular core classes to cover the number of students we have. The oversized classes are English, Science and Math. This will only get worse due to the new graduation requirements that are in place (statewide). We just don't have enough teachers to service our kids in the manner in which they deserve to be educated. THAT is the sad fact. More layoffs are coming, no doubt. Our kids just can't afford less teachers.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2110
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 9:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One might be led to believe that the DPS website would be the appropriate location to gather first-hand information about the district.

Following that approach, the home page of DPS's website has this link: DPS Facts, which is listed below. Notice how current it is.

Let's see: It's now 6 Jan 2007, and these data are for the years 2004 or 2005, back when the stats weren't as pitiful as in 2007.

In light of all the money spent on DPS, just how many more pennies would it have cost for simply updating these data to the present day?

School Breakdown (2004)
Elementary - 147
Middle - 31
High School - 28
Special Education - 12
Adult Education - 10
Vocational Education - 4
Total Schools - 232

Ethnicity Background (2004)
90.73% African American
5.1% Hispanic
3% White
0.8% Asian
0.3% Native American

Other DPS Facts (as of August 2005)

There are approximately 143,490 students that attend the Detroit Public Schools.

Our student/teacher ratio in grades K-3 is 17:1.

Our schools cover a geographic area that is 138.8 square miles (City of Detroit).

We serve a city with a population of 951,270 ??? people.

DPS offers free college tuition for qualified students.

DPS offers advanced placement courses.

DPS has more certified teachers than charter schools.

DPS offers special programs allowing students to graduate with associate's college degrees.

DPS offers unmatched technical training for careers in construction trades, automotive technology, computer technology, culinary arts, aircraft repair, and more!

DPS offers world class fine and performing arts.

DPS offers outstanding foreign language programs.

DPS offers many exciting extra-curricular activities, including robotics, academic and scientific competitions, business partnerships and more!

DPS offers class "A" athletic programs.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on January 06, 2007)
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 853
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We do have a robotics team at our school. Specialized schools take care of the Fine Arts and Foreign Language programs. We also have Vocational Technical Schools. The COMPACT program offers college tuition to students who maintain a 3.0 GPA, score at least an 18 on the ACT, and have 95% attendance in high school. We also offer dual enrollment in community colleges. We do offer AP classes in English and Math. Most of the perks they mention are offered at the prestigious school such as Cass, King, and Renaissance.

The student teacher ratio may be 17:1 (although I highly doubt it) in K-3.

D
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 438
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 10:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand the funding short falls. But if you have kids being taught by qualified teachers, then why are the stats so low?

Is it the schools fault due to underfunding, or is it more just the attitude of the parents and kids attending these schools, that they don't want to learn?

Or maybe both?
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 855
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Many teachers may be legally qualified but, in reality, have no clue as to what they are doing. One English teacher in my building has no idea what APA and MLA format for research papers is...

Many teachers are lazy and need to retire.

Many parents don't care and that trickles down to their kids who also don't care. I could do a lot more in my class if I didn't have almost 50 kids (and 50 x 5) papers to read each night. I could give more individualized instruction and delve deeper into topics with smaller classes.

It's not just the teacher, parents, and kids...there are many more factors into the low stats. I need books, novels, and desks! I could also use some technology (or at least a working electric plug) in my classroom! We are not preparing our kids for a technologically advanced society!
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65memories
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Username: 65memories

Post Number: 321
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here from the DPS website is a flow chart of all the changes/closures,etc.

http://www.detroit.k12.mi.us/a dmin/bs/bss/fm/Flowcharts_8x11 _1_5_07.pdf
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Gary
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Username: Gary

Post Number: 197
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher...I'm a teacher too, and I echo your sentiments 100%. I'm not in DPS, but the concerns you expressed are just as valid in my district.

As for the school closings, I think everyone has already summed up the factors that make such actions necessary. Detroit's school-age population has declined drastically along with the decline in the overall population. Charter schools have had a major impact on this shift in student demographics as well. Finally, many of these buildings are just plain OLD and inadequate. Keeping the water fountains running, the lights turned on and the electric bills paid in these facilities has got to be a major financial challenge.
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Mjb3
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Username: Mjb3

Post Number: 126
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DetroitTeacher,
I'm not a detroit teacher, nor do I have children(that I've been made aware of) in DPS. I have spend time in Det. SW high school and it is barely at 45% capacity. I would have thought they would have merged it with Western High just 3 miles away.

If your class is so overcrowded, where are all the empty seats for the 50k students DPS has lost over the last 8 yrs?

I think closing schools is bad but necessary step. I just don't understand why they can't get the "right-size" mentality of # of schools both logistically and geographically.

They are closing Redford(western most HS), won't that mean further distance to bus kids east to Cooley or Cody or next closest HS. Seems Cooley and Cody could have been combined just like SW and Western.

These kind of moves are what would make sense for DPS to move forward and stabilize.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck with your 47 kids, that is unfair burden on you.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1013
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was wondering the same thing about Redford...

The next nearest schools are Henry Ford and Cody since Cooley is on the chopping block as well. Redford covers a nice chunk of northwest Detroit. I would think Cody and Cooley be combined or something like that . That is a nice lil gap to fill over there.

Vizion
Redford Class of 1997
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 857
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cooley (my school) is NOT on the chopping block, according to DPS flow chart. Cooley won't close anytime soon since we just had a major overhaul on the North Wing for the former Dexter Trainable School kids. Elevator, ramps, brand new classrooms, etc. Having to revamp another school would cost too much money. The older side of the building has nothing like the North side. Our ceiling is falling in. Chadsey is closing, not Cooley. Schools will feed into Cooley. Students at Redford should NOT be combined with Cooley since they are arch rivals and that would cause too many headaches with fights (Redford and Cooley have always been rival schools and students from Redford and Cooley have been involved in MANY altercations at games after school).

Cooley hasn't lost students, we've gained in numbers so I don't know about empty seats anywhere as Mj about which Mj asked. My classes grow in numbers every year.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 604
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the state and city were serious about the city's crime problem they might think about investing in the school system. Folks please don't give me that bullshit about how DPS is properly funded because I assure you it is not. How can a well funded institution turn out such bad results. I know that part of the problem is responsibility of parents and students but the state and city should get serious about trying to improve the schools. Less crime if there were better schools.
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Firstandten
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Username: Firstandten

Post Number: 55
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've mentioned this before, the primary mission of DPS is being an economic driver in the city for adults either by direct employment or the letting of contracts. Given the state of the economy it almost has to take that role. When the auto plants were booming it could provide a fundamental education for its students. Now that we are in a high tech society the district is woefully unprepared to educate its students to the point were they can compete on a global basis. There needs to be a fundamental shift in how and what the district is doing as far as educating. For example it seems the goal is to get its students college ready when actually there should be more trade, technical and entrepreneurship education , something the students can use the day they step out of high school
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Firstandten
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Username: Firstandten

Post Number: 56
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've mentioned this before, the primary mission of DPS is being an economic driver in the city for adults either by direct employment or the letting of contracts. Given the state of the economy it almost has to take that role. When the auto plants were booming it could provide a fundamental education for its students. Now that we are in a high tech society the district is woefully unprepared to educate its students to the point were they can compete on a global basis. There needs to be a fundamental shift in how and what the district is doing as far as educating. For example it seems the goal is to get its students college ready when actually there should be more trade, technical and entrepreneurship education , something the students can use the day they step out of high school
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5381
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher,

I myself once a Detroit Public School student years ago. I have seen these events coming from those students.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5382
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Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DETROIT PUBLIC SCHOOLS BREAKDOWN OF DEMOGRAPHICS:

Ethnicity Background (2004)
90.73% African American
5.1% Hispanic
3% White
0.8% Asian
0.3% Native American

AND I THINK THAT DETROIT PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE MOSTLY WHITE. BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE! WHEN WHITE FAMILIES LEFT THE CITY TO THE SUBURBS THEIR KIDS WENT ALSO. ONCE IN THE 1950'S DPS HAVE ABOUT OVER 900,000 STUDENTS OUT THE CITY'S POPULATION OF 1.8 MILLION. NOW ITS DOWN TO LESS THEN 119,000 PITIFUL. SEGREGATION HAS IT PRICE. AS LONG AS SEGREGATION EXISTS IT BECOMES PART OF HISTORY FOREVER.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 858
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 6:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny, not to argue with you but do you really think that at any time in the past DPS had 900,000 students? I highly doubt that in the 1950s half of the population were school kids.

Quote:
WHEN WHITE FAMILIES LEFT THE CITY TO THE SUBURBS THEIR KIDS WENT ALSO

Do you think people don't take their kids when they move? Just had to ask!

What events did you see coming from the students? The kids are doing nothing but trying to get an education. It's the adults that are mucking things up!
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5385
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Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 8:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher,

There is no ABSOLUTE ANSWER to your question. If the population on Detroit was 1.8 million then the DPS must have over 900,000 students. The other half must be in other parochial schools.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 859
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny, I think you misunderstand population. Population means the TOTAL number of residents, not schoolkids. If the population was 1.8 million, that includes adults, schoolkids and babies. Half the total population would not have been enrolled in school. In the 50s, most households had 2 parents and some households had no children. I don't think DPS (or Detroit) had 900,000 KIDS at any point.

I just don't want you to misunderstand what population means (and I'm really not trying to start anything with you or call you out on anything).
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5387
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Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher,

I did not wrote about the population of DPS students. I wrote " IF THE POPULATION OF DETROIT WAS 1.8 MILLION-". How can prove that most households has 2 parents an some had none. What about the households of Detroit families that can raise up to 3 to 10 children?
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 860
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny dear, you are misunderstanding what I type. You said that the population was 1.8 million and half of those (900,000) were DPS students, or of school age
Quote:
ONCE IN THE 1950'S DPS HAVE ABOUT OVER 900,000 STUDENTS OUT THE CITY'S POPULATION OF 1.8 MILLION

Then you stated:
If the population on Detroit was 1.8 million then the DPS must have over 900,000 students. The other half must be in other parochial schools.

What you are typing is that DPS had half of the city's population (in one post) and then in the pother post you stated that the entire population of 1.8 million were in some type of school.

Take it math wasn't your strong subject?

In answer to your questioning of my post:

I am taking a wild guess, as to the era, that most households had 2 parents. Some households did not have any children (just like today). All households with children, I would believe, had at least ONE parent/guardian/caretaker.

I do so feel like Annie Sullivan (yep, that was a shout out).

(Message edited by detroitteacher on January 07, 2007)

(Message edited by detroitteacher on January 07, 2007)
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5389
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Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher,

You are finding out about the ABSOLUTE TRUTH for the population event, Like I wrote to you and all of you forum members before. I can prove your argument, but I myself, you and other people don't know of it's true.

(Message edited by danny on January 08, 2007)
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 618
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It sounds like roughly 70% of DPS schools were built before 1940. It sounds like peak enrollment at DPS was sometime in the late 30's to mid 40's. The numbers being around 560,000 to 600,000 students. Roughly 1/3 Detroiters at the time.

This or you could just get an average of how many have left per year and multiply that by the number of years the population has declined.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 861
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, Danny, I feel like beating my head against a rock. Prove it, if you can. I don't know what you'll be proving, but feel free. True or not, let's have it.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2136
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit's population was stable at around 1.8 million throughout the 1950s. 1958 was considered the high-water mark @ 1.85 million. A bunch of that was attributable to the Baby Boom.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 862
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not disputing the population. What I am trying to do, and obviously not succeeding, is to get Danny to realize that his numbers for DPS students don't make sense. Half are DPS and half are private school kids (which he says equals the total population) just doesn't add up...where are the adults in his equation? Am I the only one not understanding his logic?

(Message edited by detroitteacher on January 07, 2007)
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 145
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess that his logic is that the 1.8 million people in the city were orphans? That's the only logical explanation. My dad taught in DPS for a few years and had around 170 kids in all of his classes. But that still doesn't account for all of the so called "orphans."
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2138
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was too much fun just observing Danny's mind in motion in this thread. During the 1960s I hired a quite bright guy who was in his 40s for a radio station technical position.

However, he was a WWII combat soldier in the Army Air Force as a gunner on bombers. He got shot down (or at) over Italy and had a steel plate installed in his skull. Unfortunately, on rare occasions, he just couldn't think right. Sort of reminds me of Danny today.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 147
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Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perfect. That explains everything. Thanks LY.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 4508
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Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny is Danny.

Met him at a Detroit Yes picnic a couple of years ago, just a guy in his own world, not unlike many others I have met from this forum.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 619
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've never met him but he's never been a jerk to me on the forum. I don't understand 90% of what he says but he seems like a good guy.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 175
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detriotteacher, I feel a certain amount of pity for you if even 1/4 of your students are as hard to get through to as Danny.

It's cool Danny, I'm not the brightest bulb in the pack either, yet I think my ideas are brilliant and my thoughts count.
Rock on my brahthah!
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2277
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Many teachers may be legally qualified but, in reality, have no clue as to what they are doing. One English teacher in my building has no idea what APA and MLA format for research papers is...



An English teach who doesn't know how to format research papers?

Someone needs to add a little chlorine to the teacher pool.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 864
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 5:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know, I know. Others have tried to help her but she resists. Some teachers haven't been in a classroom, other than as the teacher, for so long they don't know current practise.
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Bratt
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Username: Bratt

Post Number: 435
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My two oldest children have never been in a Detroit Public School. However, my youngest son is attending a Detroit Public School for the first time, and now I see it is on the chopping block (Guyton). I had planned on sending him there at least two more years...

Oh well, DPS will lose another child. Private school here we come again....

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