  Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 4539 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070109/NEW S06/701090372&&&imw=Y Not happy about it, but I'm thinking about it myself. | ||
Craigd Member Username: Craigd Post Number: 210 Registered: 11-2003 |
1981, The year I left. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1324 Registered: 12-2005 |
Heh. That's why I selected United Van Lines. I wanted to be counted as one of that other 34%. (I was pleasantly surprised at their price but that's probably because I packed myself.) I've also read that moving companies don't like this kind of imbalance because they have to drive a lot of empty trucks into Michigan. It's inefficient. (Message edited by Jimaz on January 10, 2007) | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 84 Registered: 07-2005 |
June 28, 1974 is the date I said bye-bye to Michigan. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 251 Registered: 02-2006 |
I wish I could, but nobody will buy my house. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1036 Registered: 03-2006 |
keep the hope alive Michigan will return! | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 632 Registered: 08-2006 |
Michigan is a great state! Never lose faith in what it is, it will come back! It is in too great a location to fail. Transportation, tourism, and the service industry will rebound in Michigan. GM and Ford learn how to sell cars in China, Vietnam, and India and you'll be back in business. Detroit needs to become a strategic center again. Best of luck to Detroit and the great state of Michigan. Remember, you can't live in an area without water! | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 4545 Registered: 10-2003 |
Glad for the cheerleaders. But try to explain to someone about to lose their home after spending years working hard, raising a family, etc. to hold on. A $7-8 an hour job will open soon and if it's under the table (no taxes) it will only take 700-1000 hours a month to pay their rent. Insurance, utilities, food, etc. just are optional in the meantime. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 155 Registered: 07-2006 |
The good side of this is, it gives our sports teams friendlier away games. before long, they'll have a home field advantage no matter where they are! Milwaukee, cars sold in china are built in china. that will do us little good. although it will make gm and ford stronger companies, that mostly benefits the shareholders, and it won't bring back the thousands of assembly jobs that we've lost. And Jams has got it right - there isn't any 'holding on' when you have no way to pay for your home or much of anything else now. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1287 Registered: 10-2003 |
I didn't live in Michigan from 1975-1996. Never thought I'd come back, but here I am. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 633 Registered: 08-2006 |
I understand that it is hard to live with out an income. I don't blame people for leaving; I just wish the circumstances were different. I love Michigan and I feel bad that people are leaving. I hope that someday the state can fix the economic situation or find some way to attract people. It's still a great state and its still seems to be a constant population. It's not plummeting like West Virginia but its not exploding with growth like Georgia. Things will get better, I don't know when but I have hope that they will. I love this region and I want it to keep doing as well as it is and to keep progressing. Really, I think things will turn around when the water supply to Phoenix, San Antonio, or Los Angeles dries up. That event doesn't look too far away. If in 100 years Michigan had 9 million people but was cleaner, safer, and smarter, then that would be progress. Who's leaving, is it mainly unemployed auto workers or is it white collar people? | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 444 Registered: 12-2005 |
I strongly disagree with your take on who mostly benefits from overseas sales by GM & Ford. Yes, shareholders will benefit, but remember that many GM & Ford employees and retirees are shareholders themselves through their stock savings purchase programs. More importantly, profits from overseas operations will ensure that GM & Ford will continue to be able to make their contributions to their pension funds for future retirees and to follow through on the commitments that they have already made to the thousands who have taken early retirement and buyouts. It would be a real economic catastrophe for Michigan if either GM or Ford went bankrupt and the PBGC had to take over their pension obligations - which immediately ends retiree health care benefits (imagine the ripple effect that would have on workers in the Henry Ford, Beaumont, DMC and Genesys health care systems!) and could also result in a reduced pension for many salaried retirees. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 217 Registered: 10-2006 |
Left the D for Charlotte NC Sept. 11th, 2006. Can't wait until the day I can move back up there! | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 294 Registered: 04-2006 |
I thought about it, I did it and I'm happy that I did. I love Detroit but I don't love it enough to live in Michigan during this part of my life. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 138 Registered: 05-2006 |
Left. Came Back. Left. Came back again. As long as I have work, I will stay. Can't blame those leaving for better opportunities. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1246 Registered: 12-2004 |
Michigan is like heaven, only more so. Why would anyone move out? | ||
Sticks Member Username: Sticks Post Number: 178 Registered: 08-2005 |
Driving an empty trailer like that is called dead-heading, I believe. They hate it because they have to spend time and money on gas, tolls, tickets, and weigh stations on their own watch and wallet. You can try and balance things out by moving a person out of state to, say, Cleveland, OH and then moving a person into Ypsilanti, MI from Kent, OH. But when 2/3rds of their moves are going out of state, yeah, thats a bit uneven. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 666 Registered: 11-2003 |
The Wings played a home game last night in Phoenix. The place was going nuts at the end of the game when Holmstrom got his hat trick. They threw hats on the ice and everything. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1288 Registered: 10-2003 |
Michigan is like heaven, only more so. Why would anyone move out?" Lack of employment? Lack of a viable, healthy, walkable, big city with decent public transit? | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 210 Registered: 07-2006 |
I think 1953 was speaking in jest, though I am not 100% certain. The bottom line in terms of people moving is job opportunity and cost of living (which includes taxes). Michigan is poor in both, whereas the South is comparatively great in both those areas. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 47 Registered: 12-2006 |
Michigan's great. You can drive 75 to 80 almost everywhere and you can buy liquor just about every place but the post office and church. We have some of the best fresh water access in the world and access to Canada in several places. We also have pretty good intercity rail transportation by today's standards, and the most and best bike trails of any midwestern state that I know of. Detroit has a professional team in every sport, and we also have good sports at the college level. U of M is a top-notch research University and we have lots of other good Colleges and Universities as well. Detroit city water is the best city water I've ever had anywhere (and I've lived all over the place), and among the cheapest. (Move to Denver just long enough to get your first water bill. Or Phoenix, which is a very popular place to move to these days.) We do lack some things. Some kind of an economy for the southeast region would be, I don't know, helpful maybe. The ability to get around the metro without a car would be nice. Our public schools in some places could be better, but that's hardly specific to Michigan. If I thought it was awful, I'd uproot my family and move on. I stick around because I like the good points and I think if I tilt at windmills long enough I can help with the bad points. Cheers, Professor Scott "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 168 Registered: 06-2006 |
When spousal-unit was transferred to Silly-Con Valley CA years ago, his company had to pay a premium to the moving company because of the empty truck issue. After about five years out there, (and the Loma Prieta earthquake) the bottom fell out of the tech. industry and the company we both worked for had voluntary layoffs. We were lucky that we only rented because other former MIs who bought were stuck because they couldn't sell their homes for what they owed. We volunteered, packed a U-Haul and, after a couple-month stop in Atlanta, came back home. Within a month, I had a good job and about two weeks later, spousal-unit did, too. SO glad we came back to home and family! | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 212 Registered: 07-2006 |
Mtm, if you don't mind me asking, what are "voluntary layoffs?" | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2006 |
That's when they offer to let you kick your own ass out the door before they do it to you. Apparently it leaves less of a mark. Usually there's some vigorish thrown in, some severance pay or whatever, that's only available if leave on your own before they toss you. | ||
Mountainman Member Username: Mountainman Post Number: 121 Registered: 02-2006 |
Left in August 2004, plan to return in about year. Montana may be pretty, but a little too ....... hillbilly. Oh, that and the ridiculous home prices and disgusting low wages. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5032 Registered: 10-2003 |
Can someone tell me why we take information used by a private entity (United Van Lines) to make articles like this? I seem to see United Van Lines listed every year for an article like this, and while I don't doubt for a minute that Michigan (in raw numbers) is the state with one of the larger outbound migrations, I wonder why we rely on data by a private company that not everyone uses, os is United Van Lines some larger organization that would be able to account for almost all of the outbound emigrations? | ||
7milekid Member Username: 7milekid Post Number: 159 Registered: 01-2006 |
good riddance | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1349 Registered: 12-2005 |
Lmichigan, I recall reading that they are the only moving company that tracks such data. Agreed, it would be better to have a more comprehensive source. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 156 Registered: 07-2006 |
Mikeg, you have an excellent point about the pensions, but it still doesn't create jobs (well, not many), which is what we need more than anything. | ||
Sticks Member Username: Sticks Post Number: 180 Registered: 08-2005 |
You mean, an away game in Phoenix? 
Compared to who, Wyoming? | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 448 Registered: 12-2005 |
After only 10 years, GM is the number one passenger vehicle manufacturer in China and their Asian Group is operating in the black, unlike their NA Group. Recently, the only "growth industry" in SE Michigan has been the health care industry. Without the generous health care benefits that GM's active and retired auto employees utilize, there would be a lot fewer trips to the doctors offices and hospitals in this region and a lot fewer tests ordered up. A year ago, while being prepped for a checkup with my foot doctor, the "nurse" was making small talk about how she was going to go out that evening to look for a new car at the local Honda dealership - and this was just after she had asked me how I was enjoying my retirement from GM. I have not been back to that doctor's office since and I doubt that they have replaced me as a patient with a Honda employee or retiree. As the bumper sticker says, "Still have a Job? Keep buying Foreign" - just don't rub it in my face and expect me to take it when I have a choice in how I direct my health care spending. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 158 Registered: 07-2006 |
Mikeg, you forget that despite the fact Delphi is doing perfectly fine overseas, their NA operations (and only their NA ops) declared bankruptcy, possibly putting the pensions and health care of thousands of American workers and retirees at risk. If GM and Ford do similarly poorly in North America, they could do the same, while continuing to sell chinese-made buicks and such in china, and making a fortune off them. The vehicles need to be sold here in america if we want to avoid that. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 167 Registered: 01-2004 |
I agree with Lmichigan. This data is not anything "official". More people have moved out of Michigan than into it for the last 30 years according to United Van Lines data. HOWEVER, Michigan's population has increased since then. Perhaps we have more international immigrants than people leaving? I doubt we have increased the birth rate that much. Or maybe it's just that United Van Lines is more popular in Michigan than elsewhere...resulting in more people using them to move out than move in. I don't really know. But personally this information is not much more than an interesting statistic that may be of little significance. Michigan population according to the US Census: 2005 estimate: 10,120,860 2000: 9,938,444 1990: 9,295,297 1980: 9,262,044 1970: 8,881,826 1960: 7,823,194 1950: 6,371,766 1940: 5,256,106 1930: 4,842,325 1920: 3,668,412 1910: 2,810,173 1900: 2,420,982 1890: 2,093,890 1880: 1,636,937 1870: 1,184,059 1860: 749,113 1850: 397,654 1840: 212,267 As you can see, since Michigan became a State in 1837, the population has grown in every census. I personally trust these statistics more than United Van Lines. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 277 Registered: 02-2006 |
Born in Detroit February 23, 1977; Moved from Detroit on May 14, 1993; moved back August 7, 2001; moved again January 4, 2004; moving back January 15, 2010................313 | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1052 Registered: 01-2005 |
I'll be back in Detroit for good in 20?? when they plant my silly ass in Woodlawn Cemetery. Something to look forward to, I guess..... | ||
Bibs Member Username: Bibs Post Number: 645 Registered: 10-2003 |
I looked at the Census data too. I think the reason for the sable population is that people are living longer. During that 30 year period there are times when we lost population and then gained. The problem is that the populations in other areas of the county are growing rapidly and our state is loose representation in Congress. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 5781 Registered: 09-2005 |
Zug said: "I doubt we have increased the birth rate that much." Understatement of the decade. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5038 Registered: 10-2003 |
Zug, the Census numbers not put into proper context don't mean anything. Domestically, Michigan is losing population, but they are being replaced (albeit at an anemic rate that could very easily go negative). That does not for a minute negate United Van Lines numbers, or the fact that Michigan is barely growing. Personally, I don't think our current 'growth' is a sustainable or preferable type of growth (i.e. bleeding the middle class, to other states, and and increasing our population through the births, the majority, I'd guess, would be lower to income families and immigration). Michigan's growing, but it's tax base is actually shrinking. Population growth, by itself, says very little unless it's significant. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 221 Registered: 10-2006 |
Detroit is my favorite city in the country. My next life goal is to buy a house within the city limits. I promise I will move back the minute that I get a competitive job offer from an architectural firm in the D. Detroit/Michigan certainly does have lots of pluses as eluded to--Detroit is def. more of a 'city' than Charlotte NC could ever be. | ||
Hagglerock Member Username: Hagglerock Post Number: 377 Registered: 03-2005 |
When the water scarce areas of booming Arizona and New Mexico go dry. When the gulfcoast gets sick of hurricane after hurricane and California and Texas once again become a part of Mexico. Then I think Michigan's borders will look much more appealing to the thirsty, homeless and ambitious populace. While I joke, there is no doubt that there is some truth to what may happen to our country. I know my family and I will be back. I lived in Michigan for nine years, the longest I've ever stayed in one state! | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 214 Registered: 12-2006 |
Hagglerock, forget the hurricanes, once global warming happens, the southeast will cease to exist. Up through Memphis will be water (from what I have seen on map projections). | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 67 Registered: 06-2005 |
I left Michigan in 93. I think that the big three needs to get off their asses and start producing alternative fuel vehicles!! I think they probably already have something but are probably holding back because of big oil. Thats bullshit you cant tell me that some of the smartest people in the world cant come up with something. Michigan is a great state if you can stand the winters. Personally I wouldnt be able to anymore. Also, I read that companies like U-hall are offering discounts if you bring the empty truck back to Michigan. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 453 Registered: 12-2005 |
Continue deluding yourself if you wish, but Delphi's "perfectly fine" overseas operations were not profitable enough to support their bloated US operations that needed to be downsized to match their major customer's declining market share. Likewise, GM's current success in the Chinese market is still modest in terms of profits and it cannot and should not be used to avoid the necessary and painful downsizing that is needed in their NA Operations. GM and Ford and their parts divisions (now Delphi and Visteon) have been global companies since the 1920s and as their overseas market success over the years grew and waned, so did their employment in those countries - independently of the profitability of their US operations.
Yeah, just like they have been holding back that 100 MPG carburetor since 1957. You probably also believe that George W. Bush told his "big oil" buddies to drop the price of gasoline back in October in time for the election. Now that gasoline can be had for $1.89 a gallon, what is the latest conspiracy theory? | ||
Sticks Member Username: Sticks Post Number: 182 Registered: 08-2005 |
United Van Lines is quite different from UHaul in that UVL is a full service moving company. Your stuff is put in a 20' trailer and hauled by a truck driver in an actual big-rig. UHaul is you packing up a really, really shitty cube van that you can drive without any other kind of license endorsements, and hoping you don't break down on your move (which is usually only 50 miles or less). I've moved about five times within the past three years but I've always returned the truck to the same location I've rented from. Is there some kind of fee if you just do one way? Because it wouldn't make sense to waste your own time and money to drive a UHaul truck all the way back to the state you rented it from in the first place. Even then, how the hell would you get back? Doesn't make sense to me, Exmotowner, but I've been more wrong than right on these boards, it seems. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 742 Registered: 04-2006 |
to go up 400k statewide between 1970 and 1990 shows how bad we were kicked in the jimmy. We were growing big time for the previous 20 years from 1950 to 1970 (by 2.6 million). From 1990 to 2000 alone we made a modest return and increased by 650k! | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 228 Registered: 10-2006 |
Detroit is a very beautiful city and Michigan is the best state in the union, not very many would disagree if they have lived in either, but if you simply can't get a job in your profession or if the offer is not as competitive, most people will go elsewhere. However, there are certain advantages to leaving the area that you love for a while. Living here in Charlotte one can see how many things are run much differently from government to the construction of the city. Similarly, me being here as an outsider I can share with those of Charlotte some of the past mistakes that have been made in the northern rust-belt cities so as to educate, praying that these same attitudes will not be repeated as this city grows. Finally, I have had the opportunity to simply reflect on how much better Detroit is and all that I appreciate about when comparing it with where I now live. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2847 Registered: 08-2004 |
Hello folks, I'm back! I will be graduating this year, and from the looks of things, I may permanently leave Detroit in 2008. There are no jobs for my major. Chicago and Washington DC look too enticing for me and my significant other (yes I am in a serious relationship now) who is not from Detroit. I hope things improve in Detroit. If my mother is leaving this city, so will I. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 396 Registered: 09-2006 |
I’m assuming the main reason people are moving is because the lack of jobs or career opportunities. If that’s the case then they have legitimate reasons for leaving, but for anyone else I would have to ask Why?? The ONLY place I’d move to outside of Michigan and Detroit is either NYC, Philly, and maybe Chi-town. I think we need to stick it out in the trenches and fight the good fight to make Detroit and Michigan as great as it can be. Because I’m guaranteeing in 20 years these same people who are leaving because Detroit is not hip (like a lot of MSU grads.) will regret their decision. | ||
Bibs Member Username: Bibs Post Number: 647 Registered: 10-2003 |
Charlottepaul - Do tell! A friend of mine moved down to NC and purchase a very nice home on lake Norman. Due to a job loss, he had to sell the nice home and move to New York. Having visited him several times, I'm drawn to the area. What are the short comings of living in Charlotte? | ||
Detroiturbanity Member Username: Detroiturbanity Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2007 |
Can't beat the cost of living or lack of traffic. If wealth is to your liking, get the hell outta here. Carolinas are calling. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 228 Registered: 12-2006 |
Carolinas are calling? More like heat, humidity, and all of the snow from the past few years that we have missed. | ||
Romanized Member Username: Romanized Post Number: 216 Registered: 02-2005 |
Left July 5, 2006. BTW Charlotte is a dump, even though I agree with your point about seeing things run much differently other places. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 224 Registered: 10-2005 |
Having grown up and living in Detroit for over 20 years, I can safely say I don't regret leaving at all. Detroit will always be warm in my heart but I had to ask myself, "Is this what I want for the rest of my life?" and... the answer was and still is no. I love the fact that there are true Detroit lovers on this site; the city needs that more than anything. But for me, it wasn't my bag. I am not a car-lover. I am a walker and a transit-user. Detroit did not nor does it still meet those needs. So. I can understand why people leave, just like they leave every other local in the country. If someone is happier somewhere else, why stay? Any reason why a person leaves is legitimate if that is what the person decides. Staying in the trenches to fight urban causes can occur anywhere as all cities have needs. And.. progress and change in other cities does effect Detroit, which unfortunately always seems to be last or near last in implementing positive change for the city. Just my two cents. | ||
Rosedaleken Member Username: Rosedaleken Post Number: 275 Registered: 06-2005 |
^^^ Same here Jjw. Found a job with a transit allowance in Chicago around the same time my car needed an expensive new repair. It was a no brainer, and I don't miss the car insurance at all. | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 68 Registered: 06-2005 |
Hey, MikeG. I apologize for having an opinion. Of course Im wrong. You sure seem to have all the answers. Next time I'll check with you before I have an opinion and get your ok. Since your the only one that is allowed an opinion why dont you fix things. You seem to be the man with all the answers, since you don't allow anyone else to have an opinion. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2006 |
Well Detroit isn't right for everybody and that can be said about any city. "What are the short comings of living in Charlotte?" What I like the least about Charlotte NC compared with Detroit is that there simply seems to be no history behind the city. Detroit can trace itself from the early fort to the auto industry to the boom of the 1920s. Charlotte is here, and there must be some reason for it to be here, but it isn't readily apparent. It isn't on a river or body of water (as almost any city in history is). All in all is just lacks a background. The downtown was leveled in the 60s and 70s. The only history of the early structures to remain is the foundations of buildings trying to make themselves seen in the mass of endless paved parking lots. Detroit has so many historic structures in its CBD that compared with Charlotte it looks like it has history behind it and you can feel and see it. To be quite honest, I don't mind looking down an alley and seeing a piece of trash; it looks real and makes it look more like people have been though there. Here in charlotte they sweep the streets every few nights leaving it looking overly pristine and kept. Charlotte in its architectural appearance looks like a small Atlanta, but Charlotte is simply not as authentic as Detroit. "Carolinas are calling? More like heat, humidity, and all of the snow from the past few years that we have missed." When I first moved down here and I explained to co-workers that I was from Detroit and how much and all that I missed about it, they replied that I would like the weather down here better. If the highlight of a city is its weather, then that is actually pretty sad. Sure the weather is technically 'nicer,' but 99% of recent college grads don't choose where to work based on weather. "BTW Charlotte is a dump, even though I agree with your point about seeing things run much differently other places." I wouldn't say that Charlotte is a dump; it has nice things going for it. It is the HQ for Bank of America and Wachovia. Almost all of the high-rises downtown have been built within the last 15 years as the downtown was starting to come back to life. The city is growing very quickly; it reports that in 20 years Charlotte will be larger than Atlanta. You would like to think that up and coming cities of the south would have learned from the mistakes of the rust belt cities. Things are run quite differently here. For example, city and county governments are combined: Char-Meck police and schools. Likely this increases metropolitan cooperation. The city is much more integrated than Detroit as well. Sure Charlotte has its problems as does any other city. Likely I would guess that if Charlotte metro were the same size as Detroit metro area, the stats wouldn't be that much better than Detroit. Public transit is pretty good here-no Chicago or NY, but great bus system with the beginnings of commuter rail. Almost all the projects that I have worked on at our architecture firm are mixed-use (I think a huge plus). Also, many developments are much denser than one might do in the Detroit area. Basically every mixed-use project also has a parking deck as opposed to sprawling parking lots. Things are run/carried out differently here and I think that most of the differences are advantages for Charlotte. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 250 Registered: 10-2006 |
Guess I killed this thread yesterday, but I was asked to elaborate... |
