Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 OT New Stadia (plural) in D.C.?? Previous Next
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 75
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 7:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I admit I love seeing stadia and arena built, as I'm both into sports and love to see development (no new rumors on a new hockey arena???).

I especially like to see SMART developement.

Anyway, DaninDC, scooped us a few weeks ago (can't find the thread) that Dan Snyder might be interested in having a new FB stadium built for his 'Skins in D.C. probably on the grounds of RFK (once RFK is demolished - after a new stadium is built for the soccer team across the Anacostia in the Poplar Point area - opposite the new Nationals baseball stadium).

Excellent job, Dan.

Indeed a Wash. Post columnist has a big column today that D.C. and Snyder just might cook up some kind of mega development deal with a new stadium as part of it.

As I understand it, D.C. has big, big parcels of land near RFK and also some transferred to D.C. from the Federal government in the area called, "Hill East'.

P.S. I believe Dan and I agreed that FedEx was DUMB development - that stadium created virtually ZERO spinoff development. Sad.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01 /10/AR2007011002496.html
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4157
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 11:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FedEx Field is ten years old. If the new lifespan for a sports venue is ten years, it really doesn't bode well for sports facilities as economic development tools. Comerica Park, Ford Field value to Detroit is, in large part, that they will be there and occupied for 40-50 years.

Dan Synder is more Donald Sterling than Mark Cuban.
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 76
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 11:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of the reasons I mentioned danindc is because of his excellent insights in the previous post.

FedEx is a great stadium ON TV but is otherwise a white elephant.

What it shows, and the reason I posted the story here, is that stadia and arena if poorly designed or located in an area which makes no real economic or development sense (remember the Pontiac Silverdome)are likely to die an early death.

Hopefully, Mr. Ilitch will place a new arena is the right location and design it to meet his needs for many decades to come.

Too many arena are poorly designed or put in some obscure locale and then torn down later and rebuilt right.

(Message edited by emu_steve on January 11, 2007)
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Crew
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Username: Crew

Post Number: 1103
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 11:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Dan Synder is more Donald Sterling than Mark Cuban."

Jelk, I don't know what this means but I like the way you said it :-)
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4158
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 12:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Donald Sterling owns the L.A. Clippers, the worst franchise in sports. Mark Cuban owns the Dallas Mavericks, one of the best. Both men are similar to Synder (self-made, active with the team, fairly young).
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 1012
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 12:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aren't the Clippers one of the only consistently profitable teams in pro sports?
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 200
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 12:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The New York Yankees are very profitable, and consistently so. So are many other baseball teams, though they play games (no pun intended) to try to make it look like they do not to avoid revenue sharing and the like. For example, some years ago, the Atlanta Braves claimed "0" in television revenue, even though TBS was owned by Ted Turner, who at the time also owned the team. Do not let anyone fool you. Most professional sports teams are quite profitable.
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4160
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 12:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cman speaks the truth. The Clippers could be profitable but then again so is Don Lapre's company. I wouldn't suggest either is a model enterprise.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2023
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 1:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

FedEx Field is ten years old. If the new lifespan for a sports venue is ten years, it really doesn't bode well for sports facilities as economic development tools.




It's not the facility that's the problem. The problem is that FedEx Field sits in the middle of a suburban county, with typical suburban zoning. There has been close to NO "spinoff" (God, I hate that word) development. It's a land of parking oceans, McSubdivisions, and the Beltway. The closest Metro station is just over a mile away, and there ain't a whole lot within walking distance.

I like the idea of redeveloping the RFK site. All of the surface parking lots on the riverfront are really an eyesore. And there is a Metro station at the site, too. I'm not concerned if the city lets Snyder develop the land--it's not making any money in its current use, it would generate tax revenue--and a new stadium wouldn't cost taxpayers a dime. On top of that, Capitol Hill is rapidly redeveloping, and new construction would complement the restoration of the eastern end of the neighborhood, which has been historically underserved by retail, restaurants, hotels, bars, etc. compared to the western end of the Hill (nearest the Capitol).

Stupid Cooke family building their stupid stadium in stupid PG County....
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Hairybackjoe
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Username: Hairybackjoe

Post Number: 13
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 1:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Shouldn't this be in the D.C. Yes Forum?
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2024
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 1:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Go shave your back.
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 77
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 1:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"D.C. Yes" but the principles of athletic and entertainment development apply to all cities (ask Mr. Ford about the Pontiac Silverdome).

FedEx could be a classic case study of when building a stadium (or arena) gets screwed up (Cooke and D.C. botched it big time) and the end result is one huge waste of money - doesn't matter if it was Cooke's bucks or the tax payers.

To get back to "Detroit Yes" - some would argue that JLA was placed in an area without amenities. At least many amenities exist now for CoPa and Ford Field. (one reason why JLA should be replaced and not updated).

If someone suggests that Mr. Ilitch build a new hockey arena is some obscure location where parcel assembly is easy and cheap, refer the poster to this thread.

P.S. Is there a "Meadowlands Yes" forum? Isn't that stadium in the middle of no where - awful - I drove by it once.

I hate it when athletic venues are placed in the middle of no where (the latest is UoPhoenix stadium in Glendale, AZ - it is in sprawl country).
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2025
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 1:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, don't blame DC for Maryland's debacle in Landover!
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 201
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 1:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Emu, if you consider the immediate area, yes, the Meadowlands was built in the middle of nowhere. In the complex, there is an arena (Continental Airlines arena, formerly the Brendan Byrne arena), a horse racing venue (The Meadowlands Racetrack), Giants stadium, and some office buildings. I am probably leaving something else out, but that's the general gist of the complex. The entire complex is set in a marshy area, and there is not city or town directly surrounding it.

The complex is not in the middle of nowhere, however, if you consider that there are at least 14 million people within a reasonable distance of the stadium. So, in that respect, it's a good location. And the expansive, flat parking lots give plenty of room for tailgating before games. But it is unfortunate that the complex lies in the middle of nowhere, with no bars, restaurants, or the like.

Lastly, the Nets and Devils are moving out of the arena and into new homes in the middle of cities (in Brooklyn and Newark, respectively), which will leave the arena substantially unused. Each of those teams preferred to relocate in a more urban environment. Of course, the Jets wanted to move into Manhattan, but opposition nixed that plan.
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 78
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 1:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

? for Dan:

Did the D.C. government (read that D.C.'s notorious council) have a big role in the stadium not being placed in D.C.?

Wasn't D.C. Cooke's first choice?

I really don't remember all the details surrounding the decision where to build (D.C., Potomac Yards, Landover, etc.).
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2026
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 3:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DC was Cooke's first choice. He started talking about a new, domed stadium around 1987, and scouted sites in Loudoun County, VA (by Dulles Airport) and Fairfax County. DC remained his first choice.

Under the incompetent Mayor Sharon Pratt Kelly, negotiations broke down, there was a Congressional hullabaloo (Ben Nighthorse Campbell didn't like the name "Redskins"), and Cooke selected the Potomac Yard site in Alexandria. Neighborhood folk in Alexandria objected, so then-Gov. Wilder demanded concessions for transportation improvements, and Cooke backed out of the deal.

Cooke then looked to Laurel, MD, at a piece of private property. The deal fell through. Prince Georges County and the State of Maryland wooed the team to Landover.

That's about how I know it.
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 79
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 4:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, that case study has it all: Politicians, parcel acquisition, roads, and money (except no sex).

BTW, I'll hunch that if Mr. Snyder builds a new stadium in D.C. it will be domed and the NFL will promise him a Super Bowl. (Cleveland, I think, should have domed their stadium and probably would have gotten a Super Bowl).

No claim of gift of prophecy, but the NFL has a way of bestowing favor on cities and teams who build nice stadia to the NFL's liking.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2027
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 4:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First of all, as a native-born Clevelander: NO DOMED STADIUM! The voters shot that one down way back in 1987.

Secondly, I don't think the Skins would build a dome. Not only is a dome sacrilege to the game of football, but domes by their nature are a LOT more expensive once you get into the "large stadium" category. And for a team that sells 92,000 tickets a week, I don't think they'll downsize to a 68,000 seat dome (which isn't much bigger than RFK was).

We have enough headaches with big events here. Don't want no damn Super Bowl in my neighborhood....
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 259
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 5:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jelk,

You must have forgotten that William Clay Ford owns the worst franchise in sports.

"I hate it when athletic venues are placed in the middle of no where (the latest is UoPhoenix stadium in Glendale, AZ - it is in sprawl country)."

Yes, it worked out horribly for Davidson.
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 88
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 7:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.examiner.com/a-5127 11~Redskins_return_to_D_C__is_ inevitable.html

An article in the D.C.'s freebie newspaper.

Much of the detail is similar to danindc's history of events as to how FedEx was built and good speculation on a return to D.C.

Once again, it does show the interface of politics, land, etc.

Even though Mike Ilitch gets little sympathy on this board, trying to build anything which requires a lot of land and land acquisition has got to be a nightmare - especially in a post eminent domain era.

In D.C. there was no law changes on eminent domain and the city is the owner of the new Nationals Stadium so the site acquisition went as smoothly as one could hope. A number of property owners had adult entertainment clubs in that area and would NEVER had sold except for eminent domain went against them.

one funny story as I remember it: Some guy sued trying to block the stadium and eminent domain claiming that the proposed stadium would not have enough restroom stalls for female patrons and that supposed is a civil rights violation. (never mind that he probably never saw any arch. drawings).

The judge tossed it saying he didn't have 'standing'.

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