  Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 719 Registered: 04-2006 |
From the Following Topics of the last week: Expansion of Cobo Hiring more police Light Rail on Woodward How would you prioritize these needs and why? | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1257 Registered: 11-2003 |
Police Jobs Schools | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 190 Registered: 12-2006 |
Cobo Development/Jobs (once these come, the schools will probably get better.) Light Rail I wouldn't trust the police with my life or my pizza  (Message edited by SCS100 on January 11, 2007) | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 147 Registered: 11-2006 |
Crime Schools Jobs Mass transit | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 7351 Registered: 10-2003 |
Crime Crime Crime | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 262 Registered: 02-2006 |
Lowering crime and improving education are co-#1. These improvements would give people more on an incentive to keep their residence or business and give others two less excuses to move somewhere else #2. Lowering the cost of living and doing business in the city. Lower property taxes for all people who LIVE in their Detroit homes. Taxes on homes being rented can remain the same. Kiss the butt of any business considering building or relocating a shop or plant or whatever and ask them what it will take to get them to move in to the city. Unless it is totally unreasonable, DO IT! #3. Clean the place up. I'm not just talking about downtown. Get rid of all the junk clogging the vacant alleys. Tow the abandon cars in the streets. Get Wayne County prisoners to pick up trash ( 1 day of work = 1.5 days of you sentence). Tear down abandon houses. #4. Hold property owners accountable. From the Illitches on down to the guy who rents out his old house. Keep your property clean or pay up. #5. Trim some fat out of city government. Run it like a business. Don't run deficits. Make the difficult decision to fire people who aren't performing and aren't needed. As for light rail and Cobo expansion. I would have to rank Cobo over light rail. Light rail had it's day in the Detroit area and failed. It won't become something that people will really consider until gas holds at $4+ a gallon. If it happens before then look for it to fail and drain money out of the city and county until gas prices become unbearable. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 722 Registered: 04-2006 |
hmm how did I leave schools out? I could have sworn I was thinking about em. hmmm | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1047 Registered: 01-2005 |
321brian pretty much took the words out of my mouth. Good post, Brian. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 264 Registered: 02-2006 |
ty | ||
Bibs Member Username: Bibs Post Number: 643 Registered: 10-2003 |
Education is paramount. It is a known fact that education leads to higher incomes and lower crime. People with money and hope normally don't commit crimes because they are too busy at the mall. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 203 Registered: 07-2006 |
While I would agree with everyone that, in the long run, a better educated populace will be a better employed one and one that probably commits fewer crimes, the most direct impact can be had by focusing on crime now, and as the first, most important priority. Better policing CAN have an immediate impact. In New York City in the '90s, homicides were dramatically reduced without any appreciable gains in education. (While better than that in Detroit, the system is still awful.) Poor, uneducated people have lived in safe areas, including urban areas, for generations. We should NOT settle for things the way they are. They can be better, and we need to keep fighting to make them better. Only by reforming and expanding crime fighting will we create a place where there is secure environment in which people can become better educated, employed, and well paid. We need to address crime first, and then move incrementally in the other areas. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2006 |
I would put Cobo DEAD LAST. Cobo is a facility that is used a few times a year. "Hiring more police" is not necessarily the answer to the crime problem. Focusing on crimes that cause people not to want to live in a place is more critical. We moved out of the City because of repeated burglaries and no police response; meantime, my friend who owned a tavern was being visited by police all the time to make sure nothing illegal was going on. Memo to the City police: I did not choose to leave the City because of what might have been going on in this or that tavern. I left because someone kept breaking into my place and you didn't do a thing about it. Regarding transit, "light rail" in the modern sense has NEVER existed in Detroit. The streetcars, which were much more popular than the buses which replaced them (at GM's behest; the City in those days would jump whenever Generous Motors demanded it) were nothing like what the new light rail systems are. Real, modern light rail has never been tried here. Detroit is also the only big city in North America with no regional rapid transit; that can't possibly help our image or our residents or visitors. Just my thoughts By the way I spend quite a bit of time in Detroit, personally - just my STUFF is somewhere else now, where it's safe. Professor Scott | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 724 Registered: 04-2006 |
Here is how I would rank em Police Education Transit Cobo (dead last like the Professor) | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 443 Registered: 05-2005 |
1. Replace our slow, re-active police force with one that is engaged and pro-active. 2. Completely dismantle the miserably hopeless Detroit public school system and replace it with a system that allows children to attend any public or charter school of their choice in the region. 3. Eliminate 1/3 of city bureaucrats and their positions/departments. Cut all remaining non-police, non-fire budgets by 25%. Cut city council and mayors budgets by 50%. Pass the tax savings to homeowners who live in the city. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 207 Registered: 07-2006 |
I would also put Cobo last. I would return to my emphasis on better policing. We do need better policing, and not necessarily more officers, though more officers could eventually be helpful. As Professor Scott's situation demonstrates, it will be difficult to attract a well educated, higher income populace if we cannot even keep people's houses from being burglarized. Until we can keep people safe, it will be harder to educate our youth or gather support for new systems with which to move them around the city. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 985 Registered: 04-2005 |
1. humanity. really, what is your outlook when you feel you have to constantly protect yourself, your children, and your belongings, from your neighbors? 2. government. they sell lies to the insecure folks mentioned in #1. human nature is simple in execution, but complicated in explanation. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 44 Registered: 12-2006 |
With regard to Futurecity's comment about schools: I posted something (in one of these forums) wondering whether Detroit would be better served by several smaller school districts than one bureaucratic monolith. Unfortunately, Michigan has a state law that requires Detroit (and ONLY Detroit) to have one, and only one, school district. Now, regionalizing school choice would be great - except the kids have to get to the school somehow - and poorer parents aren't necessarily in a position to drive them around the region to a better school - and we have no effective public transportation. So, I'm not opposed to the concept, but we need to figure out how to make it practical. You would only cut 1/3 of the bureaucrats! You are very generous. I'd be thinking, 85% or 90% or so. But that's just me Professor Scott | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 148 Registered: 11-2006 |
there is a problem with cutting city jobs though, considering the largest employer in the City of Detroit, IS the City of Detroit. these jobs are holding life together for many detroiters and their families. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2319 Registered: 02-2005 |
I agree with Thecarl. Most of all, Detroit needs more people who can care about it, be committed to it, be proud of it, and all the while live in it. In terms of economic redevelopment, the city needs: housing infill/any usage which pays taxes on vacant land, which will be achieved by expediting the sale of vacant land through a land bank. And then there's mass transit... | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5031 Registered: 10-2003 |
Humanity is easier said than done, and it's not something you can dictate from without, rather something that must be brought outward from within. I say we concentrate on Detroit's needs that can actually be tackled from without, hopefully sparking people's humanity, within. There's no other way. You can't make people care, they have to want to care, and, it's only putting in the work from the outside and hoping they take up their half of the bargain from within. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 222 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hiring more police and keeping repeat offenders locked up. And... the schools should be a priority. Better transit would enable people without automobiles to be able to get to work in a more timely manner. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 899 Registered: 12-2005 |
SpiritofDetroit--then those employees who are superfluous need to be downsized just like the private sector who pays the taxes that fund those city departments. You can't run the city government as some charity. The union wouln't like this, but I would suggest downsizing by performance rather than seniority. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2321 Registered: 02-2005 |
Revolutionary! I agree, 56packman. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 45 Registered: 12-2006 |
Hmm. Spiritofdetroit, if we take that to its logical conclusion, if everybody in Detroit worked for the City, the tax rate would have to be something over 100%. Cities need private sector jobs, or as state capitals prove, at least higher-than-local-level government jobs. If the city government stands in the way of the private sector coming in to provide economic growth and employment, then the city government has to change, even if that involves short-term pain. | ||
7milekid Member Username: 7milekid Post Number: 167 Registered: 01-2006 |
more hos non unionized labor force more liquor stores less enforcement of gun and drug laws jobs | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 315 Registered: 04-2006 |
The very first and most important thing Detroit should do is sell the Detroit Department of Transportation DDOT. This will save the city $70 Million per year. Privatization is the answer because this will get the federal and state support Detroit needs to attract good paying decent jobs. It was the gross incompetence of the top DDOT leaders that directly caused the Livonia opt out. Detroit city council members just slept through the whole mess. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 739 Registered: 04-2006 |
Livonia has coordinatated with DDOT in the absence of SMART. If DDOT is at fault for ruining transit in Livonia, why is SMART out and DDOT in? | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 229 Registered: 10-2006 |
This is getting off topic I should say, but if annexation has previously been discussed in any context (when it stopped, why, legal issues) on a thread before, could someone point me in the right direction? | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 743 Registered: 04-2006 |
Omaha has recently gone through proceedings to annex its suburbs. The article includes some of the things they have run against. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16 600173/ In Michigan it is much more difficult simply due to how cities and townships were set-up. | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 71 Registered: 10-2006 |
i heard that on local 4 that FLAT ROCK set up 52 cameras in there downtown from a grant.I would like to see that in downtown detroit | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 217 Registered: 12-2006 |
Wouldn't be a bad idea. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2849 Registered: 08-2004 |
MASS TRANSIT ANTI-LITTERING LAWS (this region is a dump) JOBS (variety, not just industry) HOUSING (condos, homes, apartments, townhouses) (Message edited by ltorivia485 on January 15, 2007) | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 758 Registered: 04-2006 |
Lt could you mean enforce the anti littering laws? Would that not be the same as improving Police? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2006 |
I agree with Detroitplanner. We don't need more laws. Guess what: cocaine is against the law already, yet it seems to pop up all over the place. And Trainman , you are confused: Livonia opted out of SMART. Livonia never participated financially in DDOT. What Detroit and this region need is some reason for people to want to live here. This means we have to find a way to attract new-economy businesses, and since we have not been successful at that for at least the past seventy years, we have to look at what other regions have done. It will not do to fantasize we can come up with these answers ourselves. Crime in some neighborhoods is not the reason no new industries are setting up shop in the entire region. The regional crime is no worse than in other regions, even if the City of Detroit is doing poorly in some categories. We need to look at where our politicians have put us behind other regions. Our schools are not top-notch for the most part and our public transportation is a joke. In most other quality-of-life issues we come up even or slightly ahead. Fix what is broken, not what already works. By the way, no company decides whether to locate in southeast Michigan based on how big our convention facilities are. Cobo is a red herring. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2851 Registered: 08-2004 |
Detroitplanner, do we even have anti-littering laws for the Detroit area? People just don't care how this city looks. It's filthy. You visit other cities, even the countryside, and be amazed how folks try to keep their yards nice and clean. I don't understand how Detroit became a dumping ground for trash and litter. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 156 Registered: 11-2006 |
professorscott, 56packman, I certainly agree that the workoforce needs to bet cut (and it has by 6,000), but my point being that the reason that this is done quietly and slowly is because the city is the largest employer, and the political ramifications could potentially be very harmful. From the situations I have dealt with, it seems like a MAJORITY of the city workers need to go, and be replaced. Unpleasant, not friendly nor helpful, and apparently not efficient and productive sums up the overall city workforce to me. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1518 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ok, here's my take. In order of cost-benefit ratio: Most important: 1. Clean up the city. Blight and trash piles are demoralizing and are a big part of the city's image problem, it really is worse than any other major U.S. city. Fixing this can include anti-littering laws, strict code enforcement, volunteer cleanup efforts, BIDs, etc. Some progress has been made recently with the Clean Detroit effort in the CBD, and the new blight court. The only reason I put this ahead of crime is that it's a much easier problem to solve (higher cost-benefit ratio). 2. Reduce crime. The biggest problem, but not an easy one to solve. The fact that the Wayne County jail is usually full and petty criminals have to be released early or not jailed at all is probably the biggest problem at the moment. Better policing and possibly hiring more police wouldn't hurt either, though, and maybe some creative solutions with technology such as security cameras. 3. Mass transit. Detroit is the only major metro area without a real mass transit system, yada yada yada. This is as much about rebuilding the corridors and centers of the city as it is about moving people around. We don't need to spend billions, just get one or two major corridors of high-quality fixed transit going to show that it can work, and integrate that with the bus system. (I notice there almost seems to be a generational thing on this forum with many old-timers perceiving mass transit as a failed mode of transportation for some reason... which may at least bode well for the future.) Important: 4. Streamline city services and bureaucracy. Excess jobs will continue to need to be cut. Somehow make compensation/continued employment based more on performance, reduce the influence of (or preferably eliminate) city unions. I'm not too optimistic about this one improving short term. 5. Attract jobs/foster new industries. Continue to try to attract employers with tax incentives, and foster new industries such as life sciences, tech town, etc. There's only so much a city can do to directly create jobs, though, mostly it has to provide a good environment for employers, which in Detroit's case means fixing other problems. 6. Lower taxes. Not as critical as some other items, but taxes are still a bit higher than they should be in the city. Not as important: 7. "Fix" the schools. Of course we need to make the schools as good as they can be, but let's be realistic about what can be accomplished here. Improving schools to the point that people move to the city primarily for the schools is probably impossible. New York, Chicago, San Francisco all have pretty bad public schools, yet those cities are doing well in most other respects. And at a regional level, people talk about "brain drain"... you could argue that we do a relatively decent job of educating people in this region, but that they leave for other reasons. 8. Stop insurance "redlining". Varying insurance rates by location seems to be standard practice in the industry, and is IMO not unreasonable, and probably isn't going to change anytime soon. We need to reduce the cost to insure vehicles and homes in city areas by reducing crime, reducing insurance fraud and reducing the percentage of uninsureds. Shopping around can solve a lot of one's problem. A city-based insurance pool is a good idea, too. 9. Add parks/greenspace. Uh, no. We have a decent number of parks, including some gems such as Belle Isle, and way too much greenspace. I guess I wouldn't put Cobo up too high on the list, but it's being handled at the county level anyway. The current Cobo plan doesn't sound too bad. | ||
Fan_of_d Member Username: Fan_of_d Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2006 |
1. More parking garages...no...even better- the biggest most impressive structure in all the rust belt! We will call it MEGAPARKERS! "FOR MOVERS AND SHAFTY SHIFTERS." It would tower over the RenCen by 20 stories. The People Mover could connect to its facade and while I'm still on the topic of dreaming, here is my real list: 2. TRANSIT 3. POLICE 4. EDUCATION 5. #1 6. Cobo 7. New JLA | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5411 Registered: 02-2004 |
All of those things TAKES TIME and going through a BUREAUCRATIC process to make it happen. Best we can do it talk and dream about it. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 762 Registered: 04-2006 |
Lt, lots of laws exist against littering or dumping. The question is timely enforcement. I once saw a pickup truck dumping crap on a sidestreet about two blocks in from the city limit. I called the police precient on my cell phone and reported it. Drove by 15 minutes later and the cops were having them fill the truck back up and were writing a ticket. The problem deals mostly with enforcing the laws. The trouble with having fewer police, is that they can't be everywhere at once. Another problem is in many residents feel un-empowered to help themselves. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 883 Registered: 03-2006 |
Agreed itsjeff. 1. Crime 2. Crime 3. Crime 4. Light rail 100. Cobo expansion (regional issue not a city issue IMO) More police will help, but more and more it seems that Detroit needs to build a really big mega-prison somewhere within city limits (think jobs ), because the jails always seem to be full, and folks picked up for less serious crimes (i.e. not involving a gun) just keep getting released until they DO use a gun. Or the city could just put the incinerator to better use. jk. | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 77 Registered: 10-2006 |
#1 crime ( but in 2004 downtown detroit had a 26% less crime than other major downtowns) #2 clean up trash ( its not to bad though) #3 FIX THE SPIRT OF DETROIT #4 MCS renovated #5 schools | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2855 Registered: 08-2004 |
I agree with your list, Dougw. Right on! Detroitplanner, I also agree with you. I just think it's shame that people put up with this blight and litter. You don't see trash out in the suburbs or the countryside. I highly doubt most folks want someone else's trash on their own yards. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 884 Registered: 03-2006 |
French777, saying the MCS is more of an issue than the schools is insane. The kids are the city's future, MCS is a relic of the past. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 885 Registered: 03-2006 |
Don't fix the schools and the mega-prison I mentioned will really be necessary. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 673 Registered: 01-2005 |
Dougw: do you have any information about the real effectiveness of the Blight Court. My own experience is that it is window-dressing. There is a guy near me in SW Detroit who has for more than two years parked two broken down vehicles in his front yard. House falling down. I personally have reported this situation to Buildings, Safety and Engineering Department (as not a police issue) and they said that they had sent this uncooperative property owner to Blight Court. That was a year ago and the cars are still in the front yard. Also, my next-door neighbor with the tarp for a roof and the extension pole holding up her porch roof - she has been reported many times by many neighbors to BS &E Department and her situation continues for more than four years now. I though recalcitrant owners would end up in Blight Court in short order, but that is clearly not happening. Does anyone know anything about the real effectiveness of Blight Court or is it a place to give a job to another FOK (as I have heard)? | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 79 Registered: 10-2006 |
i don't live in Detroit so why should I care more about the schools and someone at the top already said Chicago New York don't have great schools either | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2858 Registered: 08-2004 |
What attracts people to cities are JOBS JOBS JOBS. Detroit is lacking in this area. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 770 Registered: 04-2006 |
"The court has been up and running for six months, with three "hearing officers" —lawyers appointed by the mayor—judging cases in nondescript hearing rooms in a two-story office building. Until last winter, the brown structure was a vacant building. There are bars on all the windows. Across the street sits the landmark Renaissance Center, a cluster of glass buildings that were built to revitalize Detroit in the 1970s and are now the global headquarters of General Motors. When Abdun-Noor and her staff of 13 moved in, they salvaged a giant, though dusty, conference table that was left behind on the second floor. Her thrifty habits are also evident in the court's décor. It's not a pretty department, but so far it's effective. Blight Court is an exercise in swift justice—with an emphasis on swift. Hearing officers routinely dispose of a case in five minutes, with the three cycling through more than 300 cases a day. The 36th District Court slogged through half that number in a good week. " http://www.legalaffairs.org/is sues/July-August-2005/scene_ga gnon_julaug05.msp See the warrendale blogspot warning. http://warrendale.blogspot.com /2006_05_01_archive.html My grandmother's neighbors were all busted by the DAH last summer on a routine check of grass and garbage. I think the problem is not that its ineffective, I think the problem is that the problem is huge. Over time it will get more effective as the docket shrinks. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 674 Registered: 01-2005 |
I believe that the guy with two cars has gotten a ticket. I think that's what i was told. What good did it do? What is the recourse? Will they put him in jail? Why not send the DPD and a tow truck? I think whatever agency is ticketing just hopes it works! | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 772 Registered: 04-2006 |
They could slap leins against his house. If he gets enough, to be in arrears for taxes, the City could come and take the property away. It takes along time to take away someones property rights; we are a country that values these rights. Unfortunately there are always though who abuse their rights and privledges. |
