Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 One of many reasons why Detroit can't compete in tech ... Previous Next
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Darwinism
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Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 581
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 9:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A friend of mine brought this to my attention;

Job ad on Craigslist Detroit

Within the past 4-6 months alone, I have lost 2 friends to California and Manhattan, NY respectively.

Minimum wage, folks, is $7.25/hour. White-collar technology workers at $10/hour ?!? Gimme' a break.
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 85
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 10:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Get your butt here to Texas, they will pay upwards of $45.00 an hour.
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Itsjeff
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Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 7353
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 10:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Which is why, if I were a tech business, I'd stay here.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1344
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 10:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

White-collar technology workers at $10/hour ?!?


I can empathize but keywords like "support" and "ticket" mean the job has already been made routine. The bigger money is made on ideas too new to have been made routine. $10 for that is pretty dim though, I'll admit.
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 204
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 10:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Itsjeff, you make a great point. What I wonder is whether tech people are oversupplied in the Detroit area? I would not think so, but could this be possible? That would explain the low pay rates compared to other cities. What other explanations are there?
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 981
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 10:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a credible firm trying to recruit for grossly subpar wages on craigslist? ever heard the term "red flags?"

if the posting were on monster, careerbuilder, an official company web site, etc., it would be alarming. craigslist is hardly a harbinger for the condition of tech jobs in this region.

folks from all over the country, and world, are working i.t. jobs in the detroit metro area because local companies still offer very attractive salaries. likewise, michigan has a lot of talented i.t. workers that local firms desire to attract and keep.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 40
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 10:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This type of job, if it's as stated, should pay about $35,000 to $50,000 a year. For $10 an hour I expect they really want a telephone jockey (and most of those jobs have left already anyhow).

My suspicion is the advertiser is not being entirely honest about the nature of the position. Could be wrong though.

Cman710, in every part of the country, certain types of skills are oversupplied and certain types of skills are in short supply. Nearly everywhere in America, though, people with solid technical skills are lacking. Tech companies in the US have to hire from overseas and bring people here.

Our Universities generate a great many lawyers, but not very many computer scientists or engineers compared to other developed and developing nations. That does not bode well for our collective future.
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Darwinism
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Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 582
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 11:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The real sticking point is the fact that as lowball as the offer may be ..... the company would still receive at least three to four dozens resumes. Eventually this turns into an avalanche effect causing pay rates across the board to drop.

The 'working poor' phenomena, hardly a myth, will become an extremely serious problem particularly here in Metro Detroit. Folks would work for $10/hour because their unemployment benefits had run out and their house is on the brink of foreclosure. Folks would do everything they can to stay afloat, drawing excessive home equity loans and making huge balance transfers on credit card.

As such trends continue, the problem no longer affect '1' individual, or '1' family, or '1' sector of industry ..... the problem becomes a chronic regional economic issue.

Professorscott said it well, "That does not bode well for our collective future." - Indeed, true indeed.
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Sticks
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Username: Sticks

Post Number: 175
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 11:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First off, I would not want to work for that company nor be a client to them. Why? They are actually looking for two separate types of people with that ad. If their pointy-haired manager is paying less than half what people with those skills are willing to work for, and thinks that one person is going to be shoe-horned into doing the job of two separate departments.. yeah, not so good.

1) Provide technical support services to our clients. and Resolve hardware issues and perform upgrades to standard pc equipment. That's looking for your generic IT/IS guy, the one spoofed by SNL a few years ago. But what kind of tech sup issues will they have? Is this mainframe shit, enterprise-class database servers, front-end coding, what?

2) Conduct Quality Assurance testing. Here, you're looking for a QA person. Believe it or not, this is a full-time position if they are to do it well and to do proper risk management/mitigation.

The last part there, the ticket system, that's more of a task that you'll be doing in the near future. If they list it as job description, then it sounds like they're looking for a contracter to do a massive project.

Jimaz, read the whole sentence: Help Select, Implement and Maintain a trouble ticket / bug tracking system. They want a person to do the research into various ticket systems, have them implement it, and then also trouble-shoot it when something goes wrong. I'm willing to bet that down the road, the company will also want that person to code improvements. They don't sound like they're looking for a phone jockey to take support calls.

<b>Quozl:</b> Are you talking about Austin or are there other high-tech cities in Tejas?

(Message edited by Sticks on January 12, 2007)
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 206
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 11:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Professorscott, you are completely correct. My father is a computer science professor (Ph.D originally in Math) and his students are well sought after. The undersupply of people with those skills is even worse now than a few years ago, since many people have stayed away from majoring in computer science since the high tech bubble burst in 2000/2001. People think that there are no jobs in that area, but there are many, and people with those skills are in still in very high demand. That is why I was surprised to see such a low salary for a job like that. I read it quickly and did not realize it was a Craigslist posting, though. I am sure that many people in tech jobs receive better pay.

Also, I agree that we do not produce nearly enough computer scientists, hard scientists, or engineers. My dad was a product of the generation growing up in the '50s, the era of Sputnik and the scare that followed in the US, and then the space race. Then, people were encouraged to go into science and math. Now, we do not see that very much.

I am actually someone who made a decision not to go into science or math, but for me it was always an easy decision. My passion always was in government and history, and I ended up majoring in government in college and then went to law school. I graduated last June, and now work at a law firm in New York.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 982
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 12:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

darwinism, it's preposterous to attempt to generalize from a supposition that is extreme, or lacking in credibility.

that being said - i agree that there will be downward salary trending in the region, given our economy. i.t. workers in the detroit area must stay motivated, and have a current skill set - or they risk getting caught in the shuffle. i.t. salaries here are still attractive, but the environment is growing more competitive. we have a poor regional economy and a vast influx of foreign i.t. workers. (and by the way, big industry petitioned [paid] washington to let foreign workers in to reduce i.t. labor costs, so it's a national issue, not local.)

given the fact that businesses will exploit workers - OOPS, i mean, businesses will adapt to free market forces influencing labor costs - perhaps a business would attempt to recruit an individual for the position described, for the wages described. however, i can assure you - that will be one unhappy employer, especially after the worker needs time off to attend funerals for relatives that he or she forgot already died.

cheap prices attract cheap people. i wonder what the person posting the job had in mind?
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Tomoh
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Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 280
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 12:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This job has nothing to do with computer science and any sort of degree in that (or any college degree) would be overkill for this. The first part of the posting is for an entry-level PC hardware greasemonkey and I suspect the rest is just fluff to make the job sound important.

This would be a job for someone fresh out of high school with experience building his own computer who is otherwise computer savvy but with no degrees/certification and $10/hr is totally appropriate. Not an example of the actual IT industry in the Detroit area.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 984
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 12:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

tomoh, what is a "greasemonkey?" is that someone like my undereducated, alcoholic father who came back fried from viet nam, and is relegated to repairing diesel engines for the rest of his life?
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 982
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 1:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whoever does that job is worth about $10 an hour. A 10 year old kid could do this job.

Just because it deals with computers doesn't make it "High Tech".
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Zephyrprocess
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Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 210
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 6:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

A 10 year old kid could do this job.



True enough! I've worked with several trouble ticket/bug tracking systems that appear to have been selected by a 10 year old.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 472
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 9:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol, that is NOT a white-collar IT job...

the employer is clearly looking for an 18 or 19 year old kid to be a runner, maybe someone going to school part-time to do phone support or drive to customer sites to replace broken monitors or hard drives...

there is no mention of a college degree or any required skills...

btw, my company's IT department is hiring right now for an entry-level position that has a starting pay range of $18-28 an hour based on education and experience...


(Message edited by thejesus on January 12, 2007)
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 983
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 9:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You tell'em Thejesus!

Also, I got news for you guys. The Google jobs in Ann Arbor aren't "High Tech" either. They are sales jobs.

Not pooh-poohing a great move that will help diversify the regional economy, but they aren't high-tech jobs.
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1677
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 9:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

These type of jobs are also the one of the most common outsource jobs in the tech market.

$28 an hour for an entry level person (50k), what is this company? If you don't mind me asking.
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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 138
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 10:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm a website content provider (aka: a writer). I make 80k a year. IT needs creatives as well as math majors and comp sci folk. Just a point worth noting ...
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 931
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 6:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sj, $28 per hour is alot more than 50K per year.....closer to 60K.....Certainly accounting jobs around here are actually very well-paid....an entry-level accountant at a big accounting firm makes about 53K per year....not bad for a bachelor degree (although your grades must be good....)
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7milekid
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Username: 7milekid

Post Number: 162
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 6:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We dont need to compete in tech, we need to open non union manufacturing jobs for the uneducated masses that live here, pay them 12 bucks an hour or something, that is a fortune to many
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1678
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 8:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was thinking 28/hr * 80 hours * 20 checks. My bad.

I know a few accountants who are working at large accounting firms making no where near that money until they completed their masters and their CPA.

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