Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 MCS into lofts? Previous Next
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 76
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 2:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

would it be likely that a loft company could turn MCS into lofts? I just thought of the idea. I mean if they fix up the park in front of the building ( fountains, gardens ect) then the loft residence would have something nice to look at. Also wouldn't it be cool to live in a train station!!
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2167
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Also wouldn't it be cool to live in a train station!!


Why not ask the squatters living there now?
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1304
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, almost as cool as living in an old cement silo...
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2854
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL LOL @ Susanarosa.

Classic.
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 78
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

come on you know what I mean
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Malcovemagnesia
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Username: Malcovemagnesia

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds good to me! MCS already has a pool in the basement.
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Michmeister
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Username: Michmeister

Post Number: 58
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

C`Mon, people, cut frenchy some slack, to live in a structure as impressive as the MCS would be more than awesome. It is probably Detroit`s most kick-ass landmark, even if it is a monument to our city`s own planned obsolescence. First, rehab the building, then move that fountain from Palmer Park on over there as the cherry on top. It would be about time that someone put that beauty to use because it isn`t just going to go away.Condos / apartments up top and retail shops enough to supply the tenants down under.
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 702
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The neighbourhood is a little rough....
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 886
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually it's a booming neighborhood Upinottawa, right between Corktown and Mexicantown.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2390
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great Idea French777, Why don't you start your own "loft company"? Whatever the hell that is. You could go to Mr. Maroun with a huge check in hand to buy the building and do the conversion? I'm sure he'll jump all over that idea.

Or why don't you start a little smaller and come up with the cash to buy the Free Press building and renovate it? How about the lawyers building on Randolf? Both of those are for sale, unlike the train station. Why don't you just start by buying a small house a fixing that up? Why are you waiting for "a loft company" to do it?

If you think it's a great idea, get off your ass and do it.
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 218
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As I have mentioned before, I am not sure that the building plan would be ideal for lofts. I may be wrong, but the central section of the building is not that wide. That means that it would be difficult to have a central, internal hallway to give access to multiple apartments on one level.

Of course, this could be solved by putting an elevator bank on each end of the building and having each loft go halfway across the building. That might create lofts that were too large to sell at a reasonable price, however. If anyone has drawings showing the buildings dimensions, we could try to figure this out.
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 86
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The neighbourhood is a little rough....



What? Sure, there's a few strays hanging around that area, but it's pretty close to Corktown and Mexicantown. I'm sure rehabbing MCS would greatly improve the area surrounding it. The only reason it is 'a little rough' now is because MCS is such a locus for homeless, trespassers, vandals, etc. Improving the station would improve the area. The much-improved block with Slows is also right next door.
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 703
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay, let me rephrase, the area immediately surrounding the Depot is a little rough. This is due to the fact that the area has an abandoned train station.
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 219
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While I am not intimately familiar with the area, my sense is that Gsgeorge is right. Unquestionably, MCS is a great locus for elements of the population associated with crime. This remains particularly true because there is no one around to use Roosevelt Park except transients.

The first step to improve the area would be to rehab the station, perhaps for mixed residential and office space. Then, fixing up the area immediately surrounding the park and enclosing it with infill housing (e.g., townhouses) on several sides would give the park some boundaries, and would place home fronts along the park, increasing security and driving out undesirable elements. Lastly, one side of the park could be developed with retail.

Such a design for the area would help ensure foot traffic and would bring people into the park at various times of the day. That way, the park could be made to work for the neighborhood, instead of against it.
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Detroitrulez
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Username: Detroitrulez

Post Number: 113
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 4:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

geez Ndavies....I guess one Vinton project gives you a lot of currency to call BS on just about anyone you please. then again frenchy's post (and the abandoned buildings thread-starter) are borderline retarded in their naif-eyed naivete.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 4577
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 4:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...Or convert the Roosevelt Hotel into condos maybe?

Oh damn, somebody is doing that?
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 226
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 4:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it is a great idea and hope that someday people can overcome the obsticles to make it a realistic renovation. That entire area is ripe for developement.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2168
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 4:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A couple years ago, the previous "auditor-general" for Detroit pegged the rehab costs for the MCS at upwards of $140 million.
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 98
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 4:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would think that the demo of the station and development would be cheaper than renovation alone. That itself would keep potential buyers away. Then there's the fact that it's a huge parcel of land that would make purchase even more outlandishly expensive. Somebody with deep pockets, willing to lose money in the short term would have to step up.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2391
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 4:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Vinton isn't my first project, won't be my last. I started by renovating a small 1915 vintage house some 20 years ago. I've rebuilt and sold several other old homes since. I've also bought and sold several non-rehab places. Ever wonder where the up front cash to do the Vinton came from?

You can't start with the MCS, but there are plenty of other projects that could be done with a limited amount of cash and a lot of sweat equity. I was only earning $14K a year when I bought my first place. I had lots of time and no money. Now I have very little time and enough finances to pay other people to do the work.
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Southen
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Username: Southen

Post Number: 78
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 4:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NDavies is there a reason you find it necessary to blast someone for asking speculative question? Why discuss the possiblitly of anything at all if your not capable of doing it yourself...right?

In order to do anything like that with MCS it would have to be part of a much larger development, likely taking out the "wings" of Roosevelt park.
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 435
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 4:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Demolition is cheaper than renovation in 9/10 projects, is it not?
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 832
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 4:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cman710 wrote, "...it would be difficult to have a central, internal hallway..this could be solved by putting an elevator bank on each end of the building"

The hallway could easily be run along one side of the building to allow for bigger (but fewer) rooms. The current corridor's walls aren't load bearing, so this wouldn't be a problem. The same thing is being done for at least some of the floors at the Book Cadillac.

There are already elevator banks on both ends of the building (reference: Kelli Kavanaugh's book).
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2393
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 5:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It wasn't a Speculative question? It was pure fantasy. Anyone who even has a clue about Detroit development would know there is no way this market would be able to financially support it as residential. Look at the for sale towers in the CBD that people don't think they can make a profit with. Look at the issues that buildings like the Carlton, Eddystone and harborlight are having. They aren't anywhere near the size of the MCS.

The MCS was too big for it's original designed purpose.

After watching what it took to get the Book Cadillac done, there is no way in hell the MCS is going to be done in the next 20 years. The question was so absurd it deserved to be blasted.

If french777 doesn't have the cash to do it, what makes him think anyone else has the cash and the will to do it?
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 222
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 5:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Burnsie,
You are correct that you could run halls along one side of the building. The problem is that then you would end up with a loft with windows only on one side, which is not very loft-like at all. It would be doable, but it would waste half the building's windows, which seems inefficient.

I knew there were elevator banks on one side of the building from Kavanaugh's book, but had not noticed the ones on the other side. I will have to go back and look again.
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 833
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 5:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cman710-- If the market price were high enough (admittedly doubtful) for the lofts, halving the number of available windows would be an acceptable trade-off. Obviously I and most others on this forum have no real idea what the market price would be.
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Southen
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Username: Southen

Post Number: 79
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 5:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok so why didnt you post what you just said to me? It was obvious he didnt know, which is why he asked the question in the first place. All you had to do was take the time to explain things to him like you found it necessary to do with me. If French knew the answer to begin with he wouldnt have asked the question. Instead of giving the information as to why its not feasible you found it completely necessary to poke fun at him.
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 673
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 5:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of the reasons that it is unlikely that the market will ever be in place to support a residential conversion of the MCS is the building's isolated location. The scope of any restoration would require "luxury" price points for the units. Luxury urban "loft style" living almost always occurs in a location that is walkable. But the MCS has almost no destinations within a half-mile pedestrian shed. And the few destinations that exist or which might be built in the foreseeable future are separated by vast stretches of pedestrian unfriendly streetscape. Urban buyers in the $300 per sq ft and up demographic will not spend their money to live in an isolated urban castle. Sadly, there just isn't a market among the buyers with money to make the numbers work. If a conversion of the MCS happens within the next 10 years, it will be a miracle that outshines the BC fivefold.
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 223
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 5:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Burnsie, that is true. I am guessing the market price would be below average compared to midtown and downtown apartments, but besides that, it's hard to say. On some floors, they could perhaps just have really large apartments and not have a hallway running all the way through. Or perhaps they could have one large apartment, and have the hallway begin there, so that at least some of the apartments had windows on both sides.

Right now, however, it seems that the demand for residential housing would never be large enough to fill MCS. It seems like some kind of combined office/residential space would be more likely to be realistic. Unfortunately, the decay of the buildings makes any such project more and more expensive all the time.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1299
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 5:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another obvious problem would be that MCS looks out over a train yard. Isn't there an intermodal train yard behind MCS? Not exactly what everyone wants to look out over. But then again it is a very cool building. Anything is possible, but I just don't see the MCS being saved.
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Reetz12
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Username: Reetz12

Post Number: 121
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 6:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Username: Jams

Post Number: 4577
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 4:18 pm:

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
...Or convert the Roosevelt Hotel into condos maybe?

Oh damn, somebody is doing that?


Were these the ones that were to be open in Fall of 2005?

Right down the street from the Mercury Coffee/bar? Is there any good news about his place opening soon?
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 87
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 6:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What would be wrong with demolishing the tower portion of the MCS and just rehabbing the huge lobby/front portion into a proper train station, transport hub, or shopping complex? I'd hate to see any part of that building go, but it sounds like rehabbing the whole thing would be way too expensive. Saving the most historically valuable portion seems like a good trade-off. Then build some townhomes around it, leave a little bit of park, and perhaps convert that empty warehouse just next door into lofts? You got yourself a nice and attractive little place to live and work.
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Terryh
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Username: Terryh

Post Number: 79
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 6:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was going to be the new police headquarters? Remember that speculation?
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 257
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 6:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Didn't that die a few years ago though? Last I heard was the sunken road international border crossing thingy.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2169
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 6:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

It was going to be the new police headquarters? Remember that speculation?



...until the sweetheart-deal rumors with Maroun, KK, and his mother surfaced...
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Docmo
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Username: Docmo

Post Number: 208
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Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The infrastructure around MCS with all the rail lines and the overpasses can only be described as rough. I agree, the communities surrounding MCS are quite viable and livable neighborhoods. Doing anything more than what is presently being done would dramatically enhance Corktown/Mexicantown.
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Hans57
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Username: Hans57

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't the building almost beyond repair at this point? I think the best thing that we can hope for right now is that Matty Moroun puts up some cash to do a slight preservation. You know, some moth-balling so it doesnt fall down in the next few years. Oh, and please welcome me graciously to the forum.
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 1050
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

sn't the building almost beyond repair at this point?



From what I hear, the MCS is the must structurally sound ruin in the D.
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 80
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ndavis what is your problem and fact is I have renovated 2 houses in detroit. Also so you think that since I asked this question I should have money to make it a reality!! did you see the thread on the river bridge in Germany for 500 million Euro's o yea make woodward a river yeah thats going to happen.
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Terryh
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Username: Terryh

Post Number: 83
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Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The copper and most of the sculptures have been pilfered. Some were found a few years back. Can't remember the details of the story.....
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2170
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

From what I hear, the MCS is the must structurally sound ruin in the D.



As with other buildings erected in its time frame, ca. 1912, it was overbuilt--making it very difficult to rehab without much added cost. Some day, if its and the adjacent land is economically viable, it'll be "gravity-imploded" like the Hudson building. But again, as in other ghost cities, there's way too much vacant or unused real estate the way it is.
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Reetz12
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Username: Reetz12

Post Number: 122
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leave it as a landmark - The Fabulous Ruin of Detroit!

Everyone that visits the city is amazed at the structure, maybe make it an historical marker.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 777
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LY I have a feeling that Manny bought the building for some reason. I don't think the real estate will remain vacant for long.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2171
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Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How much did Manny pay? I know it was something ridiculously cheap. I'd hardly consider it a purchase--more like a cheap gamble.

From Wikipedia:
quote:

However, even with fewer means to get to and from the station, passenger volume did not decrease immediately. During World War II, the station saw heavy military use, but once the war ended, passenger volume began to decline. Service was cut back and passenger traffic became so low that the owners of the station attempted to sell the facility in 1956 for $5 million, one-third of its original building cost in 1913. Another attempt to sell the building occurred in 1963, but again there were no buyers. In 1967, costs to maintain the large main waiting room were too high for the decreasing passenger volume and it, along with the park entrance, arcade shops, and restaurant was closed.

Things began to look better for the building when Amtrak took over the nation's passenger rail service in 1971. The main waiting room and entrance were reopened in 1975 and a $1.25 million renovation projects was begun in 1978. Only 6 years later, the building was sold for a transportation center project that never materialized. Then, on January 6, 1988, the last Amtrak train pulled away from the station after it was decided to close the facility.


quote:

Opened in 1913, the unfinished building is of the Beaux-Arts Classical style of architecture, designed by the Warren & Wetmore and Reed & Stern firms who also designed New York City's Grand Central Terminal. The price tag for this 500,000 square foot building was $15 million when it was built.

The building was composed of two distinct parts: the train station itself and the 15-story tower that rose above it. Speculation as to what the tower was originally designed for include a hotel, offices for the rail company, or a combination of both. In reality, the tower was only used for office space by the Michigan Central Railroad and subsequent owners of the building. The interiors of at least the top floor had never been completed and served no function.


quote:

The building has since been stripped of most valuable items including brass fixtures. It has also been the victim of excessive vandalism.

The property has changed hands several times after the 1984 deal, once even selling for less than $80,000. It is now owned by Controlled Terminals Inc. Another transportation company, the Detroit International Bridge Co., owns the nearby Ambassador Bridge. Both companies are owned by the same businessman, M.J. Moroun.

Rumors of renovation in the past have included several potential uses, though the most recent was in 2004 when Detroit mayor Kwame Kilpatrick announced that Detroit was pursuing options to possibly relocate the Detroit Police Department's headquarters to the aging facility. However, in mid-2005, the deal was called off and MCS remains abandoned. One proposal suggested turning the Station into a trade processing center due to its proximity to the Ambassador Bridge. One intriguing concept, Ambassador Bridge owner Manuel J. "Matty" Moroun proposed that his Michigan Central Station be restored as the centerpiece of a new convention center possibly combined with a casino, such a project could cost 1.2 billion, including 300 million to restore the Station. The Detroit Wayne County Port Authority has the power to issue bonds and could take part in financing such a project.

Renovation budgets have been estimated to require between $100 and $300 million to bring the building back to life, though many suspect the actual figure to be much higher due to the damage and vandalism.

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Bearinabox
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Post Number: 103
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the topmost floors of the MCS were unfinished and unused to begin with, would it be feasible to rehab the lower floors, seal off and mothball the upper floors, and potentially rehab more floors if and when there is demand? Of course, this is assuming Moroun would be willing to sell for a reasonable price, which is highly unlikely.
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Barnesfoto
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Post Number: 2934
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Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 11:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

or assuming Maroun, vampire, would be willing to spend any of his own money to do anything other than expand his transport monopoly..Very unlikely.
I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that the neighborhood is "rough"...(maybe they are talking about the inside of the MCS)
I can say that I've lived just behind the MCS for 2+ years, and that it's the safest place in Detroit that I've ever lived, except for the Detroit of my early childhood. The neighborhood is somehwhat cut off by the bridge, RR tracks and Train Station, and is about 90% owner-occupied
There amount of new homes (and condos) on my street have doubled each year, thanks largely to the efforts of the non-profit Bagley Housing Association over the last decade.
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Designut
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Username: Designut

Post Number: 99
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 3:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hans- after years of lurking, then finally joining the forum, you've actually posted something - so a most gracious "welcome to the forum" is indeed in order.
Agreed - I'd be ecstatic if even a minor effort to mothball it actually occurred, let alone an actual plan for development.

Of all the "what ifs?", Bearinabox's seems to be the most realistic. (though I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen)

Rehab the lower portion for use as any one of the things that Gsgeorge mentioned and mothball the tower. They could even put lights in the windows that face park and light up the tower when there's an event being held... like in the trailer for that crappy basketball movie that no one saw.
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Wolverine
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Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 260
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 4:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh MCS. One expensive building. Only one can understand it by going to the place in person. If you want to theorize what is appropriate for the building to become, or what need to be done for the building to become habitable, than I suggest you go in there at your own risk and do some research.

These threads always tend to bother me because people make wild suggestions like tearing down half the building, or turning into lofts? Where the heck are these ideas coming from?

I don't think people realize the scale of this building. It won't work as lofts, and would definitely bomb as a museum. A luxury hotel is starting to get just a bit more realistic, since the lower floors could be conference spaces, restaurant, atrium, pool etc. Underground parking is already there. Roosevelt park can be removed with new retail that would be part of some major Corktown redevelopment project. Very expensive, very risky. If that doesn't work, nothing else will except for that international trading center idea.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5045
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Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 5:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, lofts for this one don't make any sense at all. People tend to think that every vacant, historic building can, or should, be lofts, and that's just not the case. The only realistic uses are a hotel, which couldn't be supported, at the moment, and especially not this far from the core. The other usage would be what it was supposed to be used before, and that's an office building, which is something that can't be supported there, at the moment.

This project (renovation) is still years off, at best.
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Tetsua
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Post Number: 1061
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Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 2:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would it be feasible to clean the MCS a little, and have some kind of historic tours during the warmer months? Maybe just for a couple of weekends.
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French777
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Post Number: 102
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 4:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah and then when a company want to buy it and fix it up the cost would be less and people could learn about the importance the building had on detroit and such
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1304
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 5:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought they did clean it out a little a couple years ago when KK was proposing the police station. I thought they also did some roof work and starting taking the windows out. When the police headquarters idea was scrapped it has again been left to rot.
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Southen
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Username: Southen

Post Number: 82
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 5:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only time I think its been cleaned up at all is when Michael Bay is filming in the place. They clean up all the debris then place their own stuff.
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Jasoncw
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Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 326
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 9:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know if there was more of a master plan for that area? I personally can't imagine how growth was supposed to build up around the station. With the way the rails and parks are, I can't really imagine how things would fit in.

Also, does anyone know of any real proposals?

The wikipedia says Ford bought a bunch of land around the area, did he have any plans, or did the depression hit before there were any plans made.

Were there any creditable plans in general? From anyone?
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 641
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 10:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leave the building be. Just let it be a piece of public art, a statement about Detroit and its history, good and bad. Its a beautiful building and it looks great. Its a testiment to a bygone era. seal it up, make sure its not going to collapse and just let it stand. Turn that big grass field in front of it into a nice neighborhood park. On a sunny morning the light could shine through the tower and onto the gardens.
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 230
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 12:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The grassy field in front of it is a park, Roosevelt Park. Unfortunately, given the element of people MCS attracts into the park, it seems like you would need some serious attention from the police and the neighborhood to improve the situation. I think those two things could happen, with the right leadership.
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 667
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 12:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would you want an emptying, hulking building sitting around making a statement about your city? No one that lived here and had any sort of pride about the city, would suggest turning the symbols of the city's downfall into a tourist attraction. It was a horrible idea when Camilo Vergara suggested it in the 1990's for downtown buildings and it's no better with MCS.
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Mdoyle
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Username: Mdoyle

Post Number: 27
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 12:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MCS inspires such awe and sadness at the same time in me. Ive often considered just busting in there with a crew armed with wheelbarrows shovels and power washers for no good reason. Im sure we'd all be promptly arrested though. But it would definitely make a statement. I mean who breaks into a place to clean it?
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Mattric43
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Username: Mattric43

Post Number: 109
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm down Mdoyle!! I've wanted to do that for years also. Get rid of all of the garbage that has been brought in and left there.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 325
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Someone start a group on this thread. "Citizens for the Cleaning and Preservation of Old Abandoned Buildings".
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Mdoyle
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Username: Mdoyle

Post Number: 28
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scs Im not sure how to take your comment. I know to the majority of the people this sounds like an absurd idea. Many will wonder "why MCS and not any other detroit building?" To them I have no answer. Since I first saw the building its inspired awe. Im not even out to make a pollical statement about the owner or the state of the city. I just think it would be n interesting idea. In addition perhaps the citizens of Corktown and Mexicantown could stage a joint "Take back Roosevelt park" project.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 328
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was a joke. Although if you wanted to go in there, I would probably try to help. I agree that MCS needs to have a lot of work done to it. I also agree with a lot of your points on the building itself (awe and sadness for the state of it).
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 642
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 6:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"It was a horrible idea when Camilo Vergara suggested it in the 1990's for downtown buildings and it's no better with MCS."

I'm sure it was, but the buildings downtown are nothing like MCS. MCS is a giant building a couple miles outside of downtown and is disproportionately sized. Unlike in downtown Detroit where buildings could easily be converted back to offices or lofts.

"Would you want an emptying, hulking building sitting around making a statement about your city?"

It tells a story about the city's past. If you've ever been to the south side of Chicago or even seen it from the freeway there are huge abandoned steel bridges and factories. They've just been left alone, they look beautiful and nobody is going to tear them down.


Now if this all sounds like bull to you then you can chip in a few dollars for demolition or renovation. What would flattening a magnificent piece of history for more vacant land say about a city? Mindless, dying, hellhole with no respect for history?
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 218
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Or why don't you start a little smaller and come up with the cash to buy the Free Press building and renovate it?

Old Freep building needs a LOT of work. The outside of it is incredibly deceptive. When the paper moved in with the News down the street, the roof was already leaking, for starters. Plus, it's charm is mostly lacking on the inside. It'd require a complete gutting a la the B-C. It is a fine looking building on the outside, though.
And don't forget the $200-million question: Where would the residents park?
I'd love to see it saved, though.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 4617
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MCS owned by Matty Moroun = nothing is going to happen.

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