Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Can't afford to live in Detroit Previous Next
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Cmubryan
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Username: Cmubryan

Post Number: 343
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 9:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have been searching and searching for a condo/loft development that I can afford in the greater downtown area but everything is so high (especially for what you get). The Park Shelton is so far the best value but the sad thing is I can go to Troy and get a 2 bedroom condo with all the extras (wood floors, stainless appliances, granite) for about 150k where in Detroit I can't even get a 1 bedroom condo with the same features for under 180k! I'm not even factoring in insurance, taxes, etc. This is great for Detroit but kind of a disappointment that I might have to move out of the city because I can't afford it. Kind of ironic when this city is supposedly so "poor."
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 454
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 9:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's too bad, because what you get in Troy looks like total shit.
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Dan
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Username: Dan

Post Number: 1343
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 9:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.researchlofts.com/

While not downtown, its not far.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 297
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 9:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gotta love the research lofts. Stick your hand out of the window and touch a passing freight train. :-)

Although, it actually is a nice rehabbed building.
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Terryh
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Username: Terryh

Post Number: 98
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 9:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have you considered purchasing a duplex or upper-lower flat home in which you live in one section and rent out the opposite unit? How about an apartment above a storefront deal in which you live upstairs and rent the commercial section to a lessee? Maybe you can find a historical building with some architecural character.
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Austinb1212
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Username: Austinb1212

Post Number: 33
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 9:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CMU Bryan,

If you are looking for a cool space for around $180,000 I can show you a few places in the area.

Shoot me an e-mail: ablack at detroiturbanliving.com
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Bussey
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Username: Bussey

Post Number: 478
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 9:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

don't trust the Urban Living scoundrels. Forked tongues abound from their offices.
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Thewack
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Username: Thewack

Post Number: 206
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 9:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Research Lofts looks awesome from the website except for the parking lot out front. A necessary evil I guess unless there is adequate street parking.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 450
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 10:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its only because you are looking in certain areas.

I am sure there are many good deals if you look just outside the famous downtown districts.
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Cmubryan
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Username: Cmubryan

Post Number: 344
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 10:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is true but I prefer to live in somewhat of a safe/vibrant area and at this point (in my opinion) those cease to exist out of the greater downtown area.
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Wash_man
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Username: Wash_man

Post Number: 298
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 10:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Cmubryan. I would like to move to Detroit. My income is above average, yet I don't feel like I can afford it. It is ironic since so many people are poor there. For me, it's not the purchase price. It's the taxes and insurance. The home I live in is valued at about 170K and I pay $1,100 annual taxes. I hate to give that up. Maybe it's not a question of what I can afford, but I don't want to pay any more taxes than I have to.
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Eboyer
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Username: Eboyer

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 10:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Addison building, the one with the Atlas Global bistro on the first floor. That should fit into your price range very nicely.
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Wazootyman
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Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 180
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 10:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"That's too bad, because what you get in Troy looks like total shit."

That's not a dumbass generalization or anything, is it?
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 795
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 12:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can get a nice condo in Lafayette Park for a lot less than that. Live in a building designed by a real architect, for living in! Not some old factory!
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 2229
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 12:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"That's too bad, because what you get in Troy looks like total shit."

That's not a dumbass generalization or anything, is it?



Exactly. It's amazing that the city's hate for the suburbs is often stronger than the perceived suburban hate for the city.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11150
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 1:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CMUByran,

Why not invest in a neighborhood instead? Get something close to downtown and $150K gets you a 2,500-3,000 sq/ft 4-5 bedroom place. Try finding that shit in Troy! If you wanna be "cool and hip," then you're gonna pay the price. If that's not what you want, then go with buying a place in Troy. Just don't expect much on your return. I talked to two realtors at a party tonight, they said the market sucks right now, with one exception, Detroit. Most all of their sales right now are in Detroit.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2043
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 1:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow realtors trying to tell you how "great" the Detroit market is..........now why would they do that? Makes one think they might be try to sell you.

Don't listen to those that trash Troy.There is nothing wrong with Troy and in fact there is certainly more ethnic diversity then in Detroit. And the real estate market is lousy in Detroit and everywhere else in Mich.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 455
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 1:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wazooty-
Show-me-ANYTHING-in-Troy-that- doesn't-look-like-shit!!-Have- you-been-there?-Have-you-drive n-around?-Have-you-opened-your -eyes?

There-is-no-way-anyone-conside ring-the-Park-Shelton-COULD-EV EN-CONSIDER-TROY!!

Hysteria-
Who-said-I-live-in-the-city?

note:-(spacebar-not-working)
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Erikd
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Username: Erikd

Post Number: 795
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 2:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I have been searching and searching for a condo/loft development that I can afford in the greater downtown area but everything is so high (especially for what you get)...the sad thing is I can go to Troy and get a 2 bedroom condo with all the extras (wood floors, stainless appliances, granite) for about 150k where in Detroit I can't even get a 1 bedroom condo with the same features for under 180k! I'm not even factoring in insurance, taxes, etc. This is great for Detroit but kind of a disappointment that I might have to move out of the city because I can't afford it. Kind of ironic when this city is supposedly so "poor."



quote:

...but I prefer to live in somewhat of a safe/vibrant area and at this point (in my opinion) those cease to exist out of the greater downtown area.



Cmubryan,

You are looking for something that doesn't exist.
If you want to buy a condo in a safe and thriving downtown area, you will have to pay extra for the location.

Forget about the "Detroit is a poor city" crap, because it doesn't apply to this situation. Detroit has alot of very poor areas, but it also has some very nice areas. Delray and Brightmoor are nothing like Downtown and Palmer Woods, so don't try to label the entire city as "poor". Detroit has alot of new condos in your price range, but you have no interest in them, because they are not located in the more expensive and vibrant areas of the city that you would like to live in.

If you think the loft/condos in downtown Detroit are too expensive, take a look at the prices for loft/condos in downtown Royal Oak.
--------

Bottom line:

Any downtown loft/condo will cost much more than a similar unit in a bland suburban style setting.

You need to decide what is important to YOU.

If you want to live in a vibrant downtown area, you will have to sacrifice some of the extra interior options and/or square footage.

If you want the most square footage and interior options, you will have to sacrifice the vibrant downtown location.

You CAN afford to live in the downtown neighborhood that you desire, but you CAN'T have your cake and eat it too...
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1298
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 7:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"There is nothing wrong with Troy and in fact there is certainly more ethnic diversity then in Detroit."

I would agree that there isn't really anything "wrong" with Troy, other than the fact that it's a typical sprawling suburb with no traditional downtown nucleus.

As for ethnic diversity... it's not very diverse at all. Demographically speaking, it's as homogenous as Detroit (in other words, one ethnic group dominates), but in reverse:

http://muninetguide.com/states /michigan/municipality/Troy.ph p

The only wrinkle in the Troy stats is the relatively high percentage of people of Asian ancestry.

(Message edited by Fury13 on January 19, 2007)
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Matt
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Username: Matt

Post Number: 1159
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 7:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CMU:

Shoot me an email. I know of something you might be interested in checking out. denverguy81(at)yahoo(dot)com.
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Cmubryan
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Username: Cmubryan

Post Number: 345
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 7:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard that Detroit is the only market in the whole metro area that is doing relatively well. That is great!

The place in Troy is in a prime location-this is what floors me! It's pretty much on 16 between 75 and Crooks in the heart of their business and retail center. Yes, the architecture is more bland but its still 35 years old and undergoing a renovation and has a great mid century feel.

Once again its not the big city, which I love, so I'm holding off for now because I prefer to continue living downtown.

As for the Lafayette condos, I have looked at the Mies Van Der Rohe townhomes and they are relatively inexpensive, however they have a hefty association fee (600-700) and yes I know that includes taxes but its a lot of $$ on top of a mortgage for a 110,000 or so (similar to a 200K mortgage).
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Detroitduo
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Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 793
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 8:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Erikd. Basically, I know I can live cheaper in the suburbs somewhere, but it was important to me to live in the City. I can afford a little more, but considering what most of my counterparts are living in out in the suburbs, I am living in a shack. Fact is, they don't have all the culture or other wonderful things at thier fingertips like I do. To me, it's worth the extra that I pay. But that's MY choice.

I would chat with Matt... I think he may have something you will like in mind. Also, did you check out corktown?
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3578
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 8:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have you seen the amazing house Chub is selling for $119K in the DetroitYES classifieds?

https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/65504/87154.html

Can you find a deal like that in Troy or anywhere?

"Troy City of the Future Now"
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 23
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 8:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have several friends out in Troy. To be honest, I don't have a high opinion of the place. Too much traffic and too much of a feeling of driving from nowhere to get to nowhere. It's a prime example of that famous quote, "there's no "there" there."

One thing to consider when pondering your association fee at Lafayette Park is the added costs of driving (and sitting in traffic) for every little mundane thing if you live in Troy.

Also, as far as taxes are concerned, aren't many of these new loft developments part of those tax break areas where you won't have to pay hardly any taxes for 12 years?

(Message edited by el_jimbo on January 19, 2007)
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Psewick
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Username: Psewick

Post Number: 71
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 9:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a very beautiful historic house in the best part of Corktown very, very close to downtown for $169K:

http://www.oconnordetroit.com/ properties/residential/1327_la bro/1.htm

I bought my own house in Corktown (but on the other side of Rosa Parks Blvd) for $75K.
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Spitty
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Username: Spitty

Post Number: 517
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 9:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dude, get a wife.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 1024
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 9:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Options in $150,000 price range in the downtown area:

55 West Canfield: This is a great building near Woodward in the heart of Midtown. www.55westcanfield.com

Research Lofts: It's on the northern border of Woodbridge, a great neighborhood close to downtown, Midtown and New Center. www.researchlofts.com

Condos in Woodbridge: There are a couple of new and rehab condo developments a little over $165,000. You might be able to bargain a price down considering the housing market. Check out www.realestateone.com/content/ PropertyDetail.asp?listingNumb er=e26151022

You can also find great houses in the $150,000 to $200,000 in Woodbridge, Corktown and West Village.

I think 55 West Canfield might be the best bet for you. I checked that out a few weeks ago and was very impressed. Research Lofts and the Woodbridge condo also seem like great deals. To easily get an easy of what's for sale check out www.realestateone.com and check out the search by map option. It's not completely comprehensive but has an awful lot of information.
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1007
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 10:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sorry cmubryan, but you aren't looking hard enough. a quick trip over to realtor.com i found two lofts at 55 w.canfield, one at the canfield lofts, three at riverplace, two at harbortown, three at the garden court, and almost a dozen at 1300 lafayette all for under $150k. there's plenty out there. i'd advize finding a realtor to help your search.

but, if you're looking for new construction and/or high end finish and fixtures, you're not going to find those for a bargain downtown. those types of features are used to market "luxury living" and are priced accordingly. you can buy a place, then install all of those types of things for less the price.

there are also neighborhood zones that offer significant tax breaks, currently. keep an eye out for those; they keep rates around (sometimes less) than suburban ones.

as far as suburb vs. city; you get what you pay for. if you want a bigger house with a quiet yard, great. the suburbs are for you. if you want convenience of city living, you might have to pay a little bit more. in my opinion, there are much more advantages/amenities to living downtown and i'm willing to pay a little extra for them. the two are never going to be comparable, especially in pricing. this isn't a "what is better" argument, they're just different and you pay different amounts for different things.

(Message edited by rsa on January 19, 2007)
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4193
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 10:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

You can get a nice condo in Lafayette Park for a lot less than that. Live in a building designed by a real architect, for living in! Not some old factory!



If you actually have influence on Detroit's planning process it is no wonder the city faces the challenges that it does. Converted buildings such as factories are high demand living spaces all over the country and in Europe. Detroit's loft projects have been successful from Merchant's Row to the soon-to-be-completed Grinnel Building.

Sadly loft development is hampered by idiots like Detroit Planner because he wouldn't want to live there even if there are more than enough people who would to fill dozens more loft projects in Detroit.

Typical Detroit shit, planners and leaders with less vision then Hellen Keller. Thankfully there does seem to be a shift in thinking in recent years and dinosaurs like Planner are being shown the door.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 800
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 10:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jelk, you really need to lighten up. All I was doing was pointing out an option no one else did. You read way too much into things. The fact is you can get a Mies VenderRhoe 1,400 square foot town house in Lafayette park for about $130,000; or less. Add in basement space and you get considerably more room. Thats less than $100 a square foot. He is looking for an affordable option. I gave him one. The tag was meant to be a bit sarcastic; I'm sorry you have no sense of humor, but that does not mean I don't support building conversions.

(Message edited by Detroitplanner on January 19, 2007)
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 5827
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 10:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jelk said: "Typical Detroit sh**, planners and leaders with less vision then Hellen Keller."

I'd take Keller's "vision" any day over, say, Coleman Young's.
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Imperfectly
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Username: Imperfectly

Post Number: 172
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 11:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can get a co-op in Lafayette Park, no its not a loft but I believe you said condo/loft.
I am pretty sure Indian Village Manor as some co-op options also.
55 West Canfield does have some units under 150k, they will be smallish 733 sqft, for one person that is plenty.
If you compare any of the "loft" developments in RO to whats available in Detroit you will be amazed. You get way more space in Detroit in an actual loft space( I prefer my loft to be something that was not intended to be residential, and well old) and the tax abatements make a HUGE difference. Keep looking and don't get discouraged.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 26
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 11:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl,

Coleman Young has been dead for years now. What does he have to do with the current vision of the future of Detroit?
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4194
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 11:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't see why you needed to disparage converted living spaces in order to pitch Lafayette Park. Your little joke is exactly the kind of thinking that has hindered the growth of lofting in Detroit. Well that and morons who think they could convert toxic cement silos into lofts.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 801
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 11:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jelk you really need to worry less. All I did was point out a very affordable option, with a bit of sarcasm. I'm sorry you have no humor; but that does not mean I don't support conversion of buildings to usable space. It astounds me that you attack me and not the guy who tells folks to move to Troy.

Your attack was very much out of line.

(Message edited by Detroitplanner on January 19, 2007)
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Imperfectly
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Username: Imperfectly

Post Number: 173
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 11:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Uh, Jelk who are you talking to ?
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 933
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 11:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aren't the apartments in the Riverfront Towers selling for that range? They are very nice for the price, and the view can't be beat.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 802
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 11:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Gambling man has no vision! He is anti-loft!" :-)

- Jelk

(Message edited by Detroitplanner on January 19, 2007)
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11152
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 11:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I would agree that there isn't really anything "wrong" with Troy, other than the fact that it's a typical sprawling suburb with no traditional downtown nucleus.



Exactly. Though they do have two Hooters restaurants now thanks to their city councils incompetence. Can I get a hell yeah?
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Jeanofarc
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Username: Jeanofarc

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 11:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Depends on what you want. A neighborhood? Not research lofts or Troy. There's something nicely built pretty well, real materials and minority skilled labor I've been watching going up at Trumbull and Lysander. Dont know the price; but its not junk or built over a toxic factory that squirted the laws or padded inspectors in a real live neighborhood.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 7900
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 11:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gambling_man has vision. I saw him use it late one night at Bouzouki's on a shapely woman as she teased.

Apparently, Sport's is similar.


Another option that I think has the greatest positive overall are the DFD Lofts on the north end of Eastern Market. They took the Federal Historic Tax Credits, so each must be rental for five years.


JUST enough time to NOT lose money buying real estate in this market.


Sure, you lose the property ownership write-off on your income tax...but with a portion of your amazingly LOW rent (for the exacting coolness of the space and quiet location when the firefolkers aren't testing their sirens) going to your downpayment at the end of your rental period, that sting is at least lessened.

Just about a mile from everything you would want to do downtown...except, perhaps, go to Corktown.




(Message edited by Gannon on January 19, 2007)
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Solarflare
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Username: Solarflare

Post Number: 571
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 12:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whenever I worry that this board has lost its venom and hubris a thread like this pops up. Whew.
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 987
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 12:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have fun at Applebees.
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1309
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 12:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, because everyone who lives in the suburbs eats at Applebee's...
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 300
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 12:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey! Don't forget Olive Garden.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 27
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 12:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susanarosa,

You are absolutely right. They don't all eat at Applebee's. Some choose Chili's, Olive Garden, Ruby Tuesday's or Olga's as well.
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1310
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 12:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*shaking head*

Carry on...
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Matt
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Username: Matt

Post Number: 1160
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 12:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's wrong with Olga's?!?!
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1299
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 1:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Olga's is not like those other chains; it's locally-based and the fare is very decent for that kind of place.

Red Robin, Logan's, Papa Vino, Applebee's, Olive Garden, Friday's, Bennigan's, Texas Road House, Chili's, Macaroni Grill, etc., ARE all the same place with slightly varying menus.

I suppose that the predictability of such places is a comfort zone for some folks.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2068
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 2:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Um, have you considering *renting*? As far as I know, there isn't a law that says you have to buy real estate.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 419
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 2:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An aside: References have been made to the Lafayette co-op.

I have never been able to understand why the owners never got together and converted it to a condominium. The property values would go up immediately. I had some friends who lived there and tried to convert several years ago and it never got off the ground.

This isn't Manhattan where co-op living is close to the norm. Here, co-ops are so rare that lenders and most prospective purchasers just can't get their hands around the concept.
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Zephyrprocess
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Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 222
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 3:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Wow realtors trying to tell you how "great" the Detroit market is..........now why would they do that? Makes one think they might be try to sell you.

Don't listen to those that trash Troy.There is nothing wrong with Troy and in fact there is certainly more ethnic diversity then in Detroit. And the real estate market is lousy in Detroit and everywhere else in Mich.



But...what if what the realtors said were true?

http://www.mlive.com/printer/p rinter.ssf?/base/news-40/11689 5686944040.xml&storylist=newsm ichigan

quote:

Sales of existing single-family homes were down nearly 14 percent from Jan. 1-Nov. 30, 2006 compared with the same period in 2005, the Michigan Association of Realtors said Monday.

The city of Detroit resisted the downward trend. Existing-home sales in Michigan's largest city were up 7.6 percent in the first 11 months of 2006 compared with a year earlier.

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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2403
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 3:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zephyrprocess, Don't try to confuse Citylover with facts he likes his head firmly planted in the ground.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 456
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 3:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Cmu,

I saw that there was a studio loft for sale at Canfield Lofts (460 w Canfield, just down the street from 55 West) in Midtown for 150 something. I've seen them. They are cool.

Don't let Troy suck the life out of your soul for any price. Be a part of Detroit's vibrant Midtown community.
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 97
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 3:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Zephyrprocess, don't forget that Detroit is THE foreclosure capital of the US. It would bet that much of the 7.6% increase were forclosed properties selling for a song.

http://realestate.msn.com/buyi ng/Article2.aspx?cp-documentid =1349808
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 106
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 3:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The city of Detroit resisted the downward trend. Existing-home sales in Michigan's largest city were up 7.6 percent in the first 11 months of 2006 compared with a year earlier.



Then again, how many percentage points were the foreclosures up in Detroit? (just as a comparison)

quote:

Be a part of Detroit's vibrant Midtown community.



and shop at Tomboy!
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Detroit_girl
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Username: Detroit_girl

Post Number: 75
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 4:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cmubryan: I would also suggest Research Lofts. My sister recently moved there. She got to choose her own fixtures, stainless included, parking is very secure and she got a huge tax break for something like 9 years. I'm jealous of the tax break!
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 810
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 4:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I personally would be leery of buying a property simply because of a tax break that expires. Once it expires the taxes shoot through the roof and you may end up with a property that you're upside down on.
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Themax
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Username: Themax

Post Number: 488
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 6:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are the services Detroiters receive worth the taxes they pay?
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 274
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 8:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So I am confused about a presumed change in status (probably whitin the last year apparently), since when has it become more expensive to live in a Detroit neighborhood than a suburban one? I had always assumed it the other way around with Detroit being the cheapest. Obviously it depends on where, but my guess would be that with the same thing on one side of eight mile and the other side, that the Detroit side would be cheaper.
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Beavis1981
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Username: Beavis1981

Post Number: 68
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 8:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

out here in north oakland county 3/4s of an acre with $150,000 house cost 1,200 a year in taxes
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2044
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 8:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So we are to believe that Detroit with it's budget woes ,crappy city services ,closed recreation services,lack of grocery stores and other retail the rest of us take for granted is somehow on cloud nine in the real estate game........do I got that right? Then the logical question is why does the city continue to lose population?

I, however am not here to convince anyone including cmubryan where to live.If you want to live in Detroit I hope that it can work that way for you.

I will respond almost every time the shitbirds come out with the ...."suburbs are soul killing"... or whatever else kind of shit they tell us. As if Detroit isn't soul killing? Pleeeeeeeaaaaaaaase. I imagine the friends and families of the however many hundred murdered in the city in 2006 could tell us a thing or two about soul killing. And that is not to discourage you cmubryan but rather to suggest that you not pay much attention to the rabid dogs here that foam at the mouth every time anyone mentions living in a suburb.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 816
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 9:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beavis that is only 16 mills give me a break. Most places tax about 40-50 mills. Detroit taxes about 70!
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Beavis1981
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Username: Beavis1981

Post Number: 69
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 9:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

150,000 is what its estimated at 57,000 is what is was in 1982
sorry if i'm off I pay rent here
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 98
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 10:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beavis1981 do u live near or in Oakland Township 'cause i live in Rochester Hills and prices here are like astronomical
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Beavis1981
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Username: Beavis1981

Post Number: 72
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 11:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ yes I live in oxford. It was actually part of oakland township at one time in the 19th century
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 107
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 11:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, I figured it our for myself. Existing home sales in Detroit went up 7.6% Foreclosures went up 43% in 2006 according to CNN. 1 in every 80 houses in Detroit according to MSN.
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Darwinism
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Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 585
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 12:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Be honest to yourself financially.

Ideally, your monthly pay out for living expenses including mortgage, insurance, utilities + misc. should be less than 33%-35% of your monthly income. Think about it for a moment, if your loft/condo costs above $180k, your mortgage is going to be in the range of $1200-$1500/month on a traditional loan program and not some BS creative financing stuff that Rock is trying to sell you. Add that to your other monthly expenses, conservatively that would probably take you up to $2000-$2200/month. So, if $2000-$2200 is 33% of a fiscally responsible individual, that would mean your total take-home paycheck should read about $6000/month.

Of course, the developers are going to tell you that they are selling out Phase X in Y number of hours, Phase A in B number of hours. Detroit today is way better than the Detroit 4-8 years ago, no doubt. At the end of the day, you have to decide if you can afford to live in the Midtown or Downtown properties. Ultimately, you must avoid being sucked into the 'flavor of the month' frame of thought. Buying real estate is a big commitment.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 822
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 7:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amen Darwinism. Becoming housepoor is silly and leads to a miserable life.

Don't forget that condos will also have a monthly assessment/association fee.
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Cmubryan
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Username: Cmubryan

Post Number: 348
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 8:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with what you are saying but I think you are overestimating a tad. My take home should be 6k a month? That would be 72k a year -take home!! I highly doubt a lot of homeowners of 180k homes make upwards near 100k a year. Am I wrong in this thinking??
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 827
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 8:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The general rule for keeping within your means is not to have a mortgage more than twice your yearly income. Some folks can do as much as a multiplier of 2.5; but that has a lot to do with how well you can save or the size of your paycheck. For example; a person making $100k a year can afford to be squoze for a higher percentage of their income than someone making $50k.
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Darwinism
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Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 586
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 11:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CMUBryan: In this time of economic uncertainty, it is always a good idea to be on the conservative. For example; it is advisable for folks to save at least half of their age. If you are 20, put away 10% of your paycheck into some type of savings account. If you are 30, a bigger percentage - 15% - should be socked away for the future. And bear in mind that this is on top of other obligations such as children's college fund. Now, after you consider all these factors, it is not that far off or overestimating to live within your means when considering taking out a mortgage to buy a loft/condo. Of course, there are always daredevils out there who are willing to go for it. In that case, I am sure Rock Financials can gladly help someone making $40,000 a year to purchase a $200,000 swank loft with 0% down. I don't even want to get into the details of LTV(loan-to-value) and negative equity. I wish that others would benefit from your due diligence in your process of house-hunting. I am already beginning to see foreclosures coming from those who jumped head first into the few major loft/condo properties from 2-3 years ago.
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Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3583
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 1:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CL asked, "So we are to believe that Detroit with it's budget woes ,crappy city services ,closed recreation services,lack of grocery stores and other retail the rest of us take for granted is somehow on cloud nine in the real estate game........do I got that right? Then the logical question is why does the city continue to lose population?"

Ferndale, Royal Oak, and Birmingham all lost population in the 2000 census, percentage wise more the Detroit in the case of the first two, but real estate values climbed dramatically. Smaller, wealthier, childless households are the reason.

Schools mean nothing to them and everybody has to drive for retail no matter where they are. In the case of the booming downtown and lower Woodward corridor, proximity to arts, entertainment and other venues trump all the panic some like to try to spread.

It must be difficult to see things fly in the face of what some people have endlessly been preaching as being impossible -- those who have told us over and over that Detroit can go nowhere but down until its issues with crime are totally resolved. Meanwhile the opposite is occurring.
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Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3584
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 1:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding buying property and how much of your income to spend on it, the best frame of mind to have is to consider it as a forced savings account.

A lot of people would piss that money away otherwise. If you are young, start now and you can be debt free by your forties with lots of equity. And no one can throw you out or raise your rent.

Buying a house was the best financial decision I ever made even if it is squeezed me at times.
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Goat
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Username: Goat

Post Number: 9170
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 2:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowell, the opposite is not happening. Detroit is still losing population. Sure the downtown area has had an upswing but the population as a whole is continually going down.
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Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3589
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 11:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Never said it wasn't. You're not reading my post Goat. CL was befuddled about the Detroit real estate cloud nine while population is declining. My point is that declining population does not necessarily equal declining real estate prices as also shown by Ferndale, Royal Oak, indeed the entire Woodward Corridor to Pontiac. "Smaller, wealthier, childless households are the reason."
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 213
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 9:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can buy a 3,000-square-foot house in great shape in Boston-Edison for under $200,000.

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