Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Bring back the Gondola! Previous Next
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 720
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 4:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So look what they are building in Portland:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.co m/showthread.php?t=121254

Of course a Detroit-Windsor Gondola has been discussed (somewhat half jokingly) in the past and a group from Montreal had a proposal, but a gondola could serve a couple of purposes:

a) eliminate the need for the tunnel bus (although there would still need to be Transit Windsor shuttles to get Detroit bound people to sporting events, Detroit casinos, etc.)

b) tourist attraction

c) a transit connection between Detroit and Windsor (assuming the Windsor terminus is near the new bus terminal and the Detroit terminus is near the People Mover or close to other bus routes).

It is a crazy idea, but it would make it easier for pedestrians to go from Windsor to Detroit, etc. adding more pedestrian traffic to both Windsor's and Detroit's downtowns.

Heck, they did it in Portland (and its location would not be nearly as capable of drawing tourists).

One added point, it would be great if people on the Detroit side could just take the gondola to Windsor and then return immediately (i.e. stay on the gondola and not "enter" Canada) and thus eliminate the need for people to carry ID (including passports) in order to take the gondola in order to enhance the gondola as a tourist attraction.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1864
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 4:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree 100%

What is this now 4 threads about various aspects of public transportation?

This is a great idea:
quote:


One added point, it would be great if people on the Detroit side could just take the gondola to Windsor and then return immediately (i.e. stay on the gondola and not "enter" Canada) and thus eliminate the need for people to carry ID (including passports) in order to take the gondola in order to enhance the gondola as a tourist attraction.

Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 722
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 4:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I couldn't resist: strike while the transit threads are hot. :-)

As discussed on a thread a year ago or so, they would take down the gondolas during the fireworks.

It is interesting to see the gondola in Portland is a public-private partnership.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3581
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 4:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I vote for a ferry. Dieppe Park to Ren Cen. It is a natural pathway, would help RenCen greatly, and could be set up quickly with little visual or construction disruption.

"Politics is the art of the possible."
Top of pageBottom of page

Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1865
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 4:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not a bad idea either Lowell
Top of pageBottom of page

Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 81
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 4:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In St. Clair County there are two ferries and they both get quite a lot of use even though there are not big cities on either side of the border. There is a ferry from Marine City, MI to Sombra, ON and one from Algonac, MI to Bkejwanong (Walpole Island), ON. The one at Marine City charges $6 one-way for a car or $2 round trip for a pedestrian.

They are open about 16 hours per day, and rarely have weather-related closings.

A ferry from Detroit to Windsor would be a very interesting amenity indeed. There has also been some preliminary talk about a water-ferry service along the river to serve east-west travelers on the Michigan side, perhaps something like the Baltimore Water Taxi.
Top of pageBottom of page

French777
Member
Username: French777

Post Number: 96
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 4:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sounds G R E A T! ! !
Top of pageBottom of page

Susanarosa
Member
Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1311
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 4:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the lines are abnormally long at the Ferry this summer Professor, I'm blaming you.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez

Post Number: 127
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 5:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Muchas gracias Perfesser!! now let's get that ferry down to the Detroit waterfront...water taxis....duck boat tours would be fun as well. Would be really nice to see downtown detroit take advantage of its amazing riverfront. I always thought it would be cool if they could cut a bunch of canals in and around the old rivertown site...not unlike what you see in a lot of euro cities.
Top of pageBottom of page

Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 82
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 5:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susana,

The people who run the ferries and the businesses near the ferries on each side would call that "a high class problem" :-)

Professor Scott
Top of pageBottom of page

3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 420
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 5:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd be tempted to put some bucks in a ferry boat deal.

However, the infrastructure costs for constructing customs facilities and overcoming all the anticipated red tape may sink a deal that otherwise may have some financial merit.
Top of pageBottom of page

Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 281
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 8:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It does seem uncannily natural to have a ferry across the river, as there are several boats that travel up and down it. Thinking about it now, it seems as though there should have always been one. I am sure at one point there was. Heck, park you car in Detroit and take a ferry over for the night, beats waiting in line at the border crossing. I guess it would be a draw-back for the drunks that get sea sick.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4757
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 1:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jjaba has been on the Portland tram. The OHSU medical center on Marquim Hill wanted to expand and chose a vacant shipyard on the Willamette River below. The tram cost $57 million split 3 ways; City of Portland, private developers who are building condo towers and some low rise housing, and the OHSU Medical Center.

The plan is to make it part of the regular city bus, light rail and street cars system. total ride is 3 minutes, pulling up about 700 feet. Doplemeyer built it and it looks like Vail, Colo.

It's a smooth ride, up to the top. It runs over a neighborhood and I-5. Today a couple got engaged on the damn thing.

jjaba on the Far Westside.
Top of pageBottom of page

Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 696
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 1:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tram - Yes
Ferry - Yes...but as water taxi..

Still not understanding the politics that shut down the gondola before....apparently not the right kick backs to the right people.

Water Taxi would ease tunnel congestion give ease of access from parks along the riverfront...i.e taxi from the Omni down to downtown Windsor or CBD....or those staying at Hilton in Windsor could water taxi down to Rattlesnake....

It opens up so much more than just a point to point ferry
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4759
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 2:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Portland Aerial Tram was sold as a $15 million project. It ended up costing $57 million.
That's just to build it. Operating costs are staggering too.

It will save on pollution, bus lines, auto trips, and tons of emissions.

Show jjaba who's coming up with $57 million in funding just to build it, and the Detroit River crossing is much more complex than Portland, out West.

jjaba.
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 724
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 3:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the gondola could be sold the senior governments as a way to alleviate border congestion the federal, provincial and state governments may be willing to fund such a project. Private investors may also be willing chip in as the gondola would operate both as a transit line and a tourist attraction.

The great thing about the gondola is that it adds border capacity. Remember, the new bridge (the one that may be built by 2013) will likely cost $1 billion for the bridge and likely $4 billion for infrastructure improvements. That makes the gondola look like a steal.

BTW, I am certainly not against the idea of using ferry service between the two cities.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4762
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 8:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In jaaba's view, the gondola is a boondoggle. It can't be justified to ease traffic. The tunnel bus is just fine.

Nobody in Detroit wants to walk around in Windsor and there's no bus system for the Canadian socialist hoardes when they get here. Canadians come to Detroit for sports and Oakland Mall. You need infrastructure to move the people apart from their cars.

jjaba can't imagine the RCMP on their horses inspecting people on a fucking gondola. That's absurd.

jjaba.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 4595
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 10:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Still not understanding the politics that shut down the gondola before....



Let's make a list:

City of Detroit
State of Michigan
I.C.E (Homeland Security)
Army Corps of Engineers
(Please add as necessary)

Now add mirror agencies on the Canadian side.

Figure the financing next.

Best guess, tied up for a decade at least.
Top of pageBottom of page

Southen
Member
Username: Southen

Post Number: 80
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 10:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wasnt the company that proposed it willing to do it without any investment from the city?

I liked the idea as an attraction but I didnt like the proposed location in Hart Plaza. Now if it was somehow incorporated into River East you really might have something going there. An attraction and means of transportation in an up and coming residential/retail district. Could be cool.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4764
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That little matter of an International border in these times makes it dicey. Remember, Bush is making every damn body get a passport to go to Canada. So close, but so far away. Goverments are great are separating us, eh? Why do we let politicians separate us like this?

jjaba, Sad but True.
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 730
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Politicians play to their constituents. A Congress dominated by the South and a southern view of the border (illegal immigration from Mexico) will pass laws that do not reflect a national perspective.

The border at the designated Windsor-Detroit border crossings is already 100 times more secure than the Mexican-Amercian border.

(Message edited by upinottawa on January 22, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 731
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 4:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another benefit for the Gondola would be the opportunity to connect it to future Metro Detroit rapid transit developments. If the Gondola could drop Detroit-bound travellers a short distance from a proposed Woodward LRT line or (at least) a connector bus linked to a Detroit-DTW-Airport commuter line, the Gondola would be a useful transit link connecting Windsor (the second largest city in the Detroit region) to Metro Detroit's transit system.

If Detroit (and region) gets serious about rapid transit, Windsor will need to develop a system to shuttle commuters to that system (again, the gondola could bypass the tunnel congestion that the tunnel bus gets caught in during peak travel times).
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4768
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 3:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Upinottawa, do Canadians regularly use Detroit Metro Airport? If so, how do you get there?

jjaba always thought your Windsor airport was a first class operation with good service everywhere. Please advise us. Is there a shuttle from Windsor? And does the RCMP board the shuttle with horses? ( we need to feel secure up here.)

jjaba, Proudly Westside.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3472
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 3:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jams,

Here's 3 extra entities to add to your list of reasons there won't be a gondola...

Detroit's 3 Casinos... they don't want to make it easier for USA folks to get to Casino Windsor, especially since the last gondola proposal had that location at the Canadian end of the ride.
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 737
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 3:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Windsorites use Metro airport all the time. Check out the license plates in the big blue deck next time you are at Metro. I flew out of Detroit just four weeks ago and I live in Ottawa (I do, however, have family in Windsor). Windsorites usually drive or gets rides from friends and family (the same as Metro Detroiters). However, the Robert Q company out of London, ON offers a shuttle service from Windsor hotels to Metro. I have used this service in the past. One can also take a cab, but it will cost upwards of $60 one-way.

Windsor Airport offers a few charter flights to places to the south (Cuba, etc.) but the main carrier is Air Canada who flies only to its main hub in Toronto (Pearson).

RCMP officers do serve as Air Marshalls on Canadian flights, but not in uniform. You can usually figure out who the officer is because they do have their horse sitting beside them (wearing the uniform). In order to comply with American Regulations, the horse is charged 1.5 times the regular ticket price but gets to use two seats (as if it was just an obese American). :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4769
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Upinottawa is too funny. Like there are no pasty whitebread obese Canadians slogging along the Rideau Canal, jjaba has a laugh at foreigners looking at our lovely chicks, eh.

Last time jjaba was in Montreal, even the sylish on St. Catherines were full up with poutine, eh.
And wow, ever been to a Habs game? Talk about beefy, eh.

Thanks for headsup on airport traffic. jjaba never knew the socialist hoardes used Metro.
He just assumed all the confused were from the Detroit suburbs acting like they've never been out of Hazel Park or Novi.

Gistok makes the best point yet. Unless some private company like Casino Windsor builds it, a gondola won't come. The public won't pay for it.

In Portland, Oregon, it was a three way partnership for the $57 million (USD BTW).
City of Portland, private developers, and the OHSU State Medical Center. Mostly, the medical center uses it since they havebldgs. on both ends. The vertical lift is about 450 ft., and it goes right over I-5, the main highway.
Is is supposed to cost $4 RT for the public to ride. Right now, rides are free for employees and some public during the testing stages. This one was built by Doplemeyer, the same Swiss folks who run 2,000 ski lifts worldwide.

Imagine passports on the Bob-lo boats. Perish the thought.

Don't laugh, jjaba did see an RCMP horse on a recent Air Canada flight. He was tired, long in the face.

jjaba, Proudly Westsider.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.