Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Worst Decision made by the city Previous Next
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 100
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 10:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what do you think is the worst Decision made by the city was??

I think it was destroying the Statler hotel.
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Cmubryan
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Username: Cmubryan

Post Number: 346
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 10:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you mean the city administration or the citizens??
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2953
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 10:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rebuilding after the 1805 fire?
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Ltdave
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Username: Ltdave

Post Number: 22
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 11:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

re-electing the hip hop mayor

david
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Cmubryan
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Username: Cmubryan

Post Number: 347
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 1:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was going to say the election and continual reelection of Young as mayor and some of the ignorant city council.
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Dodgemain
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Username: Dodgemain

Post Number: 133
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 1:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Putting I-75/I375 down Hastings Street.
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 34
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 1:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Contracting police services with Omni Consumer Products.


robocop
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 7940
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 1:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rolling Streetlight Blackouts.
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Hockey_player
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Username: Hockey_player

Post Number: 300
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 1:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: "Putting I-75/I375 down Hastings Street."

Where else would you prefer it had gone? Woodward? Cass?
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 285
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 2:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The People Mover.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 479
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 2:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The timing of the August 1996 decision by the Detroit Board of Water Commissioners to adopt a policy that requires that all DWSD system infrastructure growth be self-supporting. This decision was made twenty-two years after they completed a massive project that increased their water treatment system capacity to more than 1.5 billion gallons per day. In the interval, system expansion costs had been spread across the entire customer base instead of being born by the community that was adding customers to the system. Today, 4 million residents of 126 communities in eight southeast Michigan counties use an average of 675 million gallons per day of water that is treated and distributed by the DSWD.
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Zug
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Username: Zug

Post Number: 168
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 2:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hockey player,
Many cities don't have that many freeways going directly downtown. And it is a bit curious that the freeway projects just happened to destroy Hastings Street (the heart of the Black community), cut Mexicantown in half (why couldn't there at least be a bridge over Bagley built), destroyed old Chinatown (around where the MGM Grand is being built). We are used to the freeways in Detroit now. But I think destroying these ethnic communities, as well as all of the other communities disturbed, for the incredibly dense system of freeways in the city did much to start the destabilizing process in Detroit. I don't know if I would say this was the worst decision by Detroit, but it would be pretty high up there.

I would also say that lack of high density development along the Detroit River is something that has been and continues to be a mistake. It's some of the most attractive looking water you'll see running past a city (being a straight, the water is clear, not muddy like other rivers), yet it never seems to be promoted very well. This is gradually changing, but progress is surprisingly slow to me.
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 231
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 2:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with ZUG although I would take it a step farther. I think the biggest mistake was allowing so many freeways to be built in the city. That contributed to declining and unwalkable neighborhoods, and the loss of a huge property tax base.
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Hockey_player
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Username: Hockey_player

Post Number: 301
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 2:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: "Hockey player,
Many cities don't have that many freeways going directly downtown. And it is a bit curious that the freeway projects just happened to destroy Hastings Street (the heart of the Black community"

Nothing curious about it - Hastings Street had become a slum by mid-century, containing some of the oldest and most rickety housing in the city (some as old as the 1860s and 1870s), and city planners, in the midst of the urban renewal movement, figured it you have to tear out a neighborhood, it makes sense to disrupt the most crime-riddled, dilapidated part of the area.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2339
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 3:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1) Poletown factory
2) Coleman A. Young
3) I-75 over Hastings Street
4) "urban renewal" of lower east side (tearing up the grid)
5) incinerator
6) the mismanagment of Tiger Stadium since 1999 (not handing it over to a private developer)
7) Not tearing down the Ford Auditorium
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 4594
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 3:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Overlaying a grid pattern instead of completing the Woodward Plan.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 308
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 4:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Getting rid of the old streetcars. This way, we wouldn't have the massive people mover debate we have now.

(Message edited by SCS100 on January 20, 2007)
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 101
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 4:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah i was just thinking about that. come to think of it, WHY did they???
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3464
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 4:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Worst mistake.... not being like Los Angeles and telling the suburbs (farm fields back then) that if you want to connect to the city water system, you must become part of the city...
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Rjlj
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Username: Rjlj

Post Number: 229
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 4:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kwame Kilpatrick for a 2nd term. Putting up the red monkey bars on Washington Blvd. Tearing down any old building that was viable for rehab
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2873
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 6:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Lack of Regional Mass Transit
2. Lack of Jobs in the City
3. No High-Density Downtown Residences

I don't think the freeways are a problem in Detroit. At least people can get around. Keep in mind we have NO MASS TRANSIT in this city at this moment.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 1065
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 6:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Failing to expand the city limits after the last annexation in 1927. They could have crossed Eight Mile also; there is no law against a corporate city being in more than one county. Grosse Pointe Shores is an example.

All these little suburban feifdoms have no right to exist, in my humble opinion.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5428
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 6:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Worst decision for Detroit. Re-electing KING KWAME KILPATRICK for mayor.
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Sfdet
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Username: Sfdet

Post Number: 85
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 6:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

some mistakes along the way, many when CY was calling the shots:

- allowing the old concrete berms to be built along jefferson in front of the rencen (thank you gm for fixing that one)
- allowing the front entrance to the rencen to be built above street level.
- designing JLA to resemble a warehouse, with no architectural connectivity to the riverfront whatsoever.
- building JLA on the river in the first place, blocking views of the river and creating an awful eyesore.
- allowing the design and construction of ford auditorium. the worst acoustics in the land.
- permitting the exterior architectural design of millendar center.
- allowing the freep to build its warehouse/printing/distributio n facility on riverfront land.
- the washington blvd red monkey bars and pedestrian mall.
- tearing down the old city hall.


and the grandaddy of all mistakes by the city of detroit:

- enacting a city income tax, giving businesses and middle and upper middle class residents another reason to leave the city once the suburbs became a viable option.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1399
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 7:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Using Big 4 Tac Squads leading up to the 1967 riots.

(Message edited by Jimaz on January 20, 2007)
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 819
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 7:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Easy.

Becoming too dependant on one industry (auto) and ignoring others that were around at the time.
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Thewack
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Username: Thewack

Post Number: 207
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 7:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The auto companies pushed for the removal of street cars in favor of buses that they could produce. In hindsight, what a blunder.
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Chub
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Username: Chub

Post Number: 457
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 8:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not like the auto companies couldn't have just started building street cars. They built tanks and planes during the war, so couldn't they have built street cars too?
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Wsukid
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Username: Wsukid

Post Number: 159
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 8:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

worst decisions I think are

1.Council avoiding becoming elected by a ward system
2. Freeways destroying great ethnic neighborhoods and dividing others
3. Being landlocked by the state to not annex further outward.
4. getting rid of the streetcar system or not developing the people mover beyond the downtown loop
5. DDOT not going father into the suburbs
6. not regionalizing services earlier
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2340
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 8:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The hate for Kwame is really similar to impeach-Bush-now crowd. It is really strong, involves a lot of name calling, and does not look at the big picture.

Kwame is the least of our mistakes. I for one think that he is no mistake at all.
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 935
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 8:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Supplying water to the suburbs.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 824
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 8:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you studdy it more carefully, the story goes that Firestone and Standard Oil was in on the buying out of transit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G eneral_Motors_streetcar_conspi racy

You can find as many people who say they did not ruin the streetcars as those that say they do if you search the internet. You can't find ANY official records from that time while searching.

http://www.lava.net/cslater/TQ old.HTM
"The Myth

The text below comes from the above link:

This is the myth that is now lodged deep in American public transportation folklore: GM conspired to destroy the streetcar systems that once ran quietly and efficiently in American cities.

GM had actually been convicted of conspiring with others in the automotive industry "to monopolize the sale of supplies used by the local transportation companies controlled by the City Lines defendants."27 That is a far cry from conspiring to wreck economically viable transit systems."
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1615
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 8:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think the city actively chose to become dependent on the auto industry but that's where the money was so all the small industry that was here switched over. The diversity that was here is a big part of the reason the auto industry grew here.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 828
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 9:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

However, the city should have been more pro-active to keep companies that left. One example is Unysis. At the time GM was building Poletown for GM, and they did nothing to keep Unisys.

At the turn of the century Detroit was also a leader in things such as stoves, brass, and farm equipment. You would have thought the auto industry would have raised the levels of these busineses, but they largely disappeared as the auto industry grew.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2045
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 9:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is a great point Lilpup. Some of the responses here are silly; I won't mention them.

Putting the freeways thru the city did major damage. Grand River was effectively destroyed by I-96. And to those that say Hasting street was all but destroyed they said the same thing about the warehouse district before Archer effectively destroyed that area. I believe those areas would have evolved just fine.Putting the freeways in made sure we will never know.

For historical comparison I believe Robert Moses the great city planner of New York wanted to do something similar there; the citizens protested enough to put a stop to it.

I will mention( it wouldn't be me otherwise) that the city's failure to make crime a major focus continues to be the biggest mistake.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 829
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 10:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

huh? Robert Moses left that sort of legacy all over the State. 99 percent of what he wanted built got built the way he wanted it to.

I read an interesting article in the New Yorker several years back about him. He started out to be a liberal minded person put in charge of putting in highways out to the beaches of long Island. People loved his parkways so much they put him in charge of the state highway department, that led to him moving thousands of people to build roads, so he was also put in charge of the public housing department. In addition he was in charge of the State Parks!

Having so much authority concentrated to one man was found to be a huge mistake. These led to the public involvement movement (to which most folks are really apathetic to). Its hard to hold a public involvement meeting when all that show up are vocal folks who have their own agendas; the best you can do is keep em from beating each other senseless as of course everyone thinks their way is right and everyone else is an idiot.

I'd agree that I-96 was much more destructive than I-375. At least I-375 has bridges spaced every block.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2046
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 10:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is what I am refering to Detroitplanner.I should have provided this with my previous post.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J ane_Jacobs
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 627
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 10:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Supplying water to the suburbs.



You should be grateful for the suburbs, they actually pay their water bills. Nearly 40% of Detroiters do NOT pay their water bill. Were it not for the burbs, the city would not be able to afford to run its water department.
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3582
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 11:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ghettoizing, terrorizing, covenanting and discriminating against African-American and other minority Detroiters from the start until the 1960's.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1519
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 11:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More specifically, I think Citylover was referring to this project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L ower_Manhattan_Expressway
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Mike
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Username: Mike

Post Number: 819
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 12:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

casino?
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Granmontrules
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Username: Granmontrules

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 1:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have viewed this forum for a weeks now (my neighbor who posts on here and shall remain nameless got me interested) and I have to say that the majority of posts on here are very negative. This thread in particular bothers me. After reading it this morning I decided to join and comment. Detroit is a wonderful city and yes we have our faults. But to continually beat her up with stupid comments that I witnessed above are so destructive. I am a proud west sider. I love where I live and enjoy many things about the city. And I am not someone who hates the city council, I don't hate the mayor, and I don't hate being here. But what I dislike is stupid and thoughtless comments.
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Granmontrules
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Username: Granmontrules

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 1:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, and yes I agree with Lowell above that our base problem is what he has posted.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5430
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 7:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wsukid and everyone are right about the flip-flop decisions from the Michigan politicians. Those bad decisions for Detroit demise are mostly not only from the people but also from our so-called leaders. We need to quite making bad decision for Detroit's future and state making better choices so that we could create a better Detroit.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 7945
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 9:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not finding a better road to name Martin Luther King Boulevard...now that I've learned the history of what went on here before I was born.


They should have renamed Grand Boulevard, at least, if NOT our half of Eight Mile Road. Wouldn't that LAST one'd been fun?!
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 939
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 12:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:


quote:
Supplying water to the suburbs.

You should be grateful for the suburbs, they actually pay their water bills. Nearly 40% of Detroiters do NOT pay their water bill. Were it not for the burbs, the city would not be able to afford to run its water department.


Think back further in time. If the city hadnt supplied water lines to the suburbs, then perhaps the city wouldnt be half empty now.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2954
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Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 2:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Not finding a better road to name Martin Luther King Boulevard...now that I've learned the history of what went on here before I was born.


MLK led a march down that street, hence the name.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2047
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 3:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The march was on woodward mike m.There is a mlk street in every city over 150,000 it seems.........this may be a bit sinister but I had an aquaintence now gone that used to say when he needed some dope ...."Just show me where mlk street is and I 'll find what I need"....
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 99
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 4:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikem:

UAW President Walter Reuther saw civil rights as a moral issue important to the continued success of American democracy and U.S. labor and civil rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. believed the support of labor unions would be an important factor in winning the fight minorities faced. As a result, their philosophies spawned a close friendship between the two.

Irv Bluestone, Walter Reuther's top aide during the early '60s, and later a UAW vice president said, "The UAW did everything possible to support Dr. King and the civil rights movement. When King began planning the Walk to Freedom March that took place in July of 1963, he wanted as many unionists as possible marching with him in Detroit

"To help him, Reuther gave King the use of an office in Solidarity house, UAW headquarters. His office was located on the fourth floor, if I recall correctly," said Bluestone."King used it while he was planning the march in Detroit and the March on Washington that took place the next month."

Detroit's march was mammoth, with 200,000 people marching down Woodward Avenue led by King and Reuther. It ended at Cobo Hall in downtown Detroit where King delivered his famous "I Have a Dream Speech" for the first time.
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Patrick
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Post Number: 3908
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Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 5:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not having the Monument of the Great Lakes built at Belle Isle. Freer had McKim, Mead and White draw up prelim plans for it. they had so much work that they turned it over to John Russell Pope.

It was never pursued
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 2943
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Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 6:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

for me, one of the worst decisions was building so many freeways that cut neighborhoods in half and allowed easy flight of jobs and residents away from the city.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2877
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 6:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with you, Barnes on the freeway system. You could say the same thing happened in all major cities, especially Chicago. Look at where the Dan Ryan cuts through the city.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2958
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Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 10:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks CL, Quozl. King also led a march on Mack Avenue in 1968, just before he was killed. I think it was the day before or day after he spoke at Grosse Pointe High.
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7even
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Username: 7even

Post Number: 128
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 11:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not the worst decision, but letting the One Kennedy Square Building be built should be on the list.
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Tigers2005
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Username: Tigers2005

Post Number: 103
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 11:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Putting the casinos in three different locations. All that did was ensure that the only people who would spend money in the casinos was our own residents. Had they all been in the same area, people would easily be able to walk between them and would be much more of a tourist attraction. Maybe we would get more money that was earned in other states, which would give our economy a much larger boost than recycling our own cash. But if they had put them all in the same place, I hope that it wouldn't have been on the river.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 423
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 11:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Electing Dennis Archer mayor. His gross incompetence displayed by his handling of the casino development process made Detroit the butt of countless jokes in the national gaming community. He left millions on the table. An analysis of the MGM deal gives credibility to views he was on the take; either that or he's more stupid than many believe. A political hack who double-crossed the guy who basically made him, CAY. I wish I could get back the money I put into his first campaign.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 561
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 11:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lets see...

1. Not capalizing on Presidents Fords Generous offer of 750 million federal funds for a regional mass transit system

2. Constant blaming the suburbs for everything

3. City tax on LIVING in Detroit

4. City tax on people WORKING in Detroit

5. Kwame, CYA insisting if it aint black I don't want in my city.. I have realible sources on this statement..

6. Council avoiding becoming elected by a ward system - Can't agree more, this has worked very well in Chicago

7. Using Cameras JUST like chicago in areas of high crime. We can get federal money for this actually.

8. Blaming the white man for every problem in the city

9. Effiencent city government, things need to be streamlined. Joe and his brother, sister, uncle, aunt, dad, and mom should not need to approve or resolve issues in Detroit.. ELIMINATE the constant red tape.. It's not my job is BS, get on the bus of go to cleveland or gary where they don't give a shit..

Later,
Dan
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 101
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 11:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YW Mikem.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 5863
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Allowing the state & fed govt to "cut & run" after the Detroit riots of 1967. The COD was not at peace, and went on to become the murder capital of the world under a racist mayor, Coleman Young.

The all-knowing citizenry blamed everyone but themselves, many believing to this day that the government can cure the one problem that caused it all - what goes on within the home.

40 years after the riots - many of those 40 years with Coleman Young in charge - parts of the COD still look like used kitty litter, and yet with many agreeing that decades of Coleman Young were great for Detroit.

(Message edited by karl on January 22, 2007)
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 424
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Digitaldom: Yeah, those as well.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 774
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Deciding to buy out the streetcars instead of building a subway and getting the streetcars at fire sale prices later.
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4199
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 12:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damn! I agree with Detroit Planner.
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Mattric43
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Username: Mattric43

Post Number: 111
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Abandoning Tiger Stadium
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3624
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well since no one else seems to have done so yet...

Welcome Granmont!
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 7963
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I dunno if we can call that a bad decision, exactly. Do we even KNOW who named that street?
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 208
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 9:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

- allowing the front entrance to the rencen to be built above street level.

I don't see how this was a major mistake.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 838
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 10:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not being proactive in taxes to ensure that it remains competitive with the suburbs.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 216
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 10:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not being proactive in taxes to ensure that it remains competitive with the suburbs.

Good one. Same thing is on my mind lately; see my recent post. :-)
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 217
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 10:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Worst decision by Detroit?

Allowing Ilitch to get his greedy, grubby hands on anything and everything he wants.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3632
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Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

rhymes you beat me to the punch...

*sigh*
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 289
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why is everything Illitchs' fault?

The last time I checked he started the movement downtown.

What do you think downtown would look like without him?
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3633
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Probably a lot more dense...
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2055
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Riighhhht especially the world series and stanley cups.......fuck that motherfucker.
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 291
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Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, it would be a lot more dense. Like you. It would have a ton more empty buildings.

The Fox would probably be a parking garage like the Michigan.

He bought all of that property behind the Fox because that was originally where the new baseball park was going to be.

I don't know exactly what but someone (a church I think) wouldn't sell and now Comerica is across the street.

I'm thinking that area is going to house the new hockey arena someday.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3634
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Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Like you. It would have a ton more empty buildings.



?
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 292
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 12:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dense. Like you. Get it? Dense like you.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 87
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Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! Interesting thread.

I can't agree with Granmontrules' comment on the 21st. If we don't examine our mistakes we can't learn from them. There's also a "best decision" thread out there.

If we consider what has caused the 60%+ decline in population, and the catastrophic effects that has had, the root causes go to a few things, not one, and these to me are the killer-bad decisions:

1. To extend water and sewer service without annexation. This enabled people to enjoy city services (and does to this day) without being stakeholders in the city's viability.

2. The all-freeway, minimal-transit buildout that happened from about the early 1930s through the 1980s in the City, and continues throughout the region. This single decision has enabled the same number of people that lived in the region in 1970 to occupy vastly more land, use more road-mile per capita, more miles of water line and sewer line per capita, and generally make the entire region unsustainable economically in the long term.

3. The failure, when the population started to outmigrate to the suburbs, to do anything to try to compete. Detroit since 1954 (the year the Lodge was opened to Southfield) has continued to pretend it has some a priori right to exist, which clearly it doesn't. No city has any right to exist unless it can attract people and businesses.

Now I will go pollute the "best decision" thread with my ramblings :-)

Cheers,
Professor Scott
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 11
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Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1.Removing the streetcar system.

2.Wholesale block removal downtown and the removal of decorative trim from the older buildings instead of forcing owners to maintain their property.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 90
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Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In a high-tax city with high crime, poor city services and low property values, if you try to "force owners" to do anything, they abandon the property. Remember property owners act in their own self interest.

If you want owners to maintain property, you have to make sure the property is worth maintaining. That means taking care of infrastructure, having a reasonable system of taxation, making sure services are in line with taxes, and so on.
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Jan
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Username: Jan

Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 12:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tearing down a fire station (E. Lafayette) to build a casino.

Thanks Dennis Archer.
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Mountainman
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Username: Mountainman

Post Number: 124
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two way tie:
1) Abandoning Tiger Stadium
2) Single Industry Reliance
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 94
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think the City abandoned Tiger Stadium as much as the Tigers did. What the City has done wrong since then is to insist on pie-in-the-sky ideas for reusing that space. Just IMHO.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 889
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed Lowell.

#1 Poor race relations

IMO, everything else is easy to overcome compared to this. No amount of money can fix poor race relations. It is what sets Detroit apart from every other major metropolitan area. No other metro is as riddled with racism and segregation to the extent that metro Detroit is. This is really what holds the city and region back.

Dieter Zetsche of DaimlerChrysler has said it himself that his company struggles to attract the best and brightest employees from across the country because applicants seemingly just don't want to live in Detroit. This poor image of Detroit has a very direct and negative effect on our #1 industry when the big 3 have to settle for second best. Improve Detroit and the Big 3 will improve as well (I think we are already seeing these results to some extent).
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 890
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Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 2:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding Black Bottom, I think it would be a popular (and "gentrified") residential area today had I375 and Lafayette Park not been built. It would probably be more popular even than Corktown because of it's proximity to the river and the east side of downtown. Plus it was an old entertainment district to boot. A huge loss IMO but at least we got Lafayette Park.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 7973
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Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 2:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, the Irish just never got that 'entertainment' stuff down.

No WAY you can make that call, Eastside, I demand a shot duel next time we meet.

Heh, Cheers!
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 891
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 2:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please elaborate on this curious custom you call a "shot duel."

Seriously though, old historic mixed-use residential stretching from Greektown to IV would be impressive. Now that stretch is disjointed and marred by random urban renewal and industrial sites. But that is changing with the new development between Van Dyke and Mount Elliot.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 7976
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Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 3:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not at all questioning what happened on the eastern side of downtown, I was challenging your postulation that it would probably be 'more' popular than Corktown if it hadn't!

Next time your bride can drive home and I've got more than a few dimes in my pocket...then we'll duel over the honor of Corktown. No shots fired, just drank. Each his own choice of similar proof liquid evil...unless you WANT to choose the other's. It's all in how the rules are chosen before the game is played.


It's not a custom, nor yet a tradition. I never heard of it before I threw down my gauntlet, but it seemed the proper thing to do.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5441
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Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 4:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Ghettoman had told me the my Street Prophets his words a long time ago.

" Truly I said to you, the reign of the developer who was a black man, an architect is over. Behold a black man who would party all the time will come. He would come disguise as a kid in man's body inviting every Detroiter to his great house of gold to dance with him. And when the party's over he must clean up his act. And at the end would would finally grow up."

The Ghettoman was right just as he prophesied The Black man who parties lot in his first term was KING KWAME KILPATRICK.
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Jcdfde5
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Username: Jcdfde5

Post Number: 27
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 4:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is with the love fest for Tiger Stadium?
It's gone and now we have a better park.
let's make new history!
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Mountainman
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Username: Mountainman

Post Number: 125
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 5:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I refer to abandoning of Tiger Stadium, I'm talking not so much about the Tiger's moving to CoPa, but rather the city allowing this giant hulk of a building slowly crumble around one of the Detroit's centrepiece neighbourhoods. There seems to have been no real effort (as opposed to the nice positive words issued by the city), to make this old building into a positive useful space for the local community. I should have clarified. CoPa is great, and was a definite must for the Tigs
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Detroitej72
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Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 453
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 9:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm suprised nobody has mentioned the Michigan Central before. Seems to be a pretty bad move to let it rot. Meanwhile Manny pays no fines for the building clearly not being up to code.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 442
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 10:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1.Building Lafayette Park

2. Not Zoning for denser housing now and in the past in the areas closer to downtown

3.Having 1-75, 1-375, and the Lodge box in downtown.

4. Not seeking to annex the majority of developed land in Wayne County.

5. Not pressing the Fishers to build the rest of the original Fisher complex.

6. Not building a subway system when Gerald Ford earmarked over 600 million to do so in the late 70s.

7.Builing Cobo Hall and JLA on the river.

8.Letting Matty Maroun purchase the MCD.

9. Possibly losing Mayor_Sekou to NYC.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 565
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 10:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The fishers ran out of money.. that is why that didn't happen.. But I agree with the rest..
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3485
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 11:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well this thread begs one question... just what did the Lafayette Park and Elmwood area look like prior to the 1950's redevelopment? An arial view would be even more interesting.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 7993
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 11:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've seen pictures of the area, and it looks suspiciously like television of that era, a vast wasteland.

More I check into it, that whole decade seems that way, I guess that's why everyone had to have those collective memory adjustments through the Happy Days nostalgia TV initiative.


They had cleared out the area 7 or 8 years previously and it was an open field.
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 311
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 12:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Fishers didn't exactly run out of money. The Great Depression happened and I assume they decided a huge vacant building wasn't what they needed.
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 72
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 10:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think poor race relations is the #1 problem with Detroit from BOTH sides from the get-go. With officials making statements like CY saying "If it aint black I don't want in my city".

I think also THE FIST. I really thinks this offends most NON-Blacks. Yes Yes Yes!!! I KNOW! I KNOW! I KNOW! ITS A MONUMENT TO JOE LOUIS!! That being said, heres my take on it, to me, (and this is MY opinion, Please read that part again, MY OPINION!!) if you wanted a monument to him which I think is awsome. (He was one of the greatest boxers that ever lived and deserves every acolade he gets) Why not a huge bronze of him with his boxing gloves on standing in the middle of Jefferson? And if the fist is indeed a monument to JL, why does it not have a boxing glove on it? The fist really offends me. I dont see it as a monument to JL, I see it as the black power sign. I really feel that that is what its meant to represent. The only reason its not hanging vertical is because CY knew he couldnt get away with that. Every time I see it, it just tells, remember where you are and your NOT welcome here, and you better be watching your back while your here and get your ass back across eight mile before dark!! Thats how I feel guys. I know a lot of you will slam me on this, but it wont change my feelings. Im sure if I feel this way,other folks do to. I think the fist should be melted down and turned into a GREAT statue of the great Brown Bomber with his boxing gloves on and make it a TRUE monument to a Great man!

No other city greets it visitors with a CLENCHED FIST! That fist needs to be an outstretched hand saying COME BACK TO DETROIT! WE WELCOME YOU HERE! WE WANT YOU HERE! WE NEED YOU HERE!

Please remember guys, This question was raised and this is my answer, my opinion, and ONLY my opinion and I DO NOT expect everyone to agree with it. No other city is a racially divided as Detroit. I really think Detroit metro is a ticking time bomb and if there ever is a race war in this country, eight mile will be the front line. I havent been in Detroit Proper in about 10 years but am coming back in May and I SO PRAY that things really have changed and I do feel safe and welcome in MY CITY that I truely do Love! I would love to see the day that I could live on my dream street (Virginia Park) safely and feel good about it and prosper in a city that I love. Until then, I can never come home. I think everyone deserves to feel safe and wanted in their own home and city and to be able to live where they choose.

Welcome the Gay folks back to Palmer Park!! Here, Fix it up! Make it nice again! Make our city clean, raise our property values! In turn we WILL make it SAFE for you! You will See police on your streets every day and every night! COME BACK! Detroit, your in no position to shun anyone!! Think about it. Why do so many have a bitter taste in their mouths when detroit comes to mind?


AGAIN GUYS, JUST MY OPINION! Thanks for allowing me that much. If I feel this way, do you really think I'm the only one?
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 240
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 10:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with you ex. I think there could have been a lot of better ways to memorialize Joe Louis and what he stood for. There should have been more of a human side. To have all of the cars, and freeways, and pavement with a huge fist seems awkward. Just my opinion though.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 4636
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 4:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The reaction to the fist is why you find this in COBO:

http://www.edhamiltonworks.com /joe_louis.htm

Too lazy to research it today, but wasn't CAY one of those who didn't care for the FIST and called for the new sculpture to be created and placed in COBO.

(Spelling of COBO for the pleasure of detroitplanner :-))
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Detroitej72
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Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 471
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 4:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote: The only reason its not hanging vertical is because CY knew he couldnt get away with that.
______________________________ ___________________

I hate to tell you this, but CAY had nothing to do with the fist. Sports Illustrated commissioned and gave Detroit the fist as a gift. Might I suggest you write to thier editor to express your feelings.
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 73
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 9:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My Apologies, I completely forgot about his statue in COBO. So, theres that statue, joe louis arena, Joe Louis Blvd and the fist. Sorry, I didnt have the conversation with Coleman Young on his feelings before I opened my mouth (AGAIN, THAT WAS MY OPINION). Telling me to write Sport Illistrated just goes to show me that my opinion and the opinion of like minded individuals really doesnt matter to Detroit! It pisses me off every time I hear about it or see it. But thats ok right? How many "Monuments" should there be built to one man? How many does one thing have to offend before it truely should not exist? If something spoke as loudly and clearly to you as that does to me you would be offended. Why the hell can you not just say, I see your point, and I hate that it offends you or anyone? I know Im not the only person out there that feels this way. It tells a VERY large group of people, you come downtown, your gonna get this! OUR FIST IN YOUR FACE! MY OPINION and damn it, your gonna let me have my friggin opinion! If you can't see this than your just kidding yourself and helping to perpetuate the great race relations Detroit has amongsts it citizens and visitors. BAD ONES! My point is DETROIT HAS GOT TO CHANGE ITS IMAGE AND BECOME A MORE WELCOMING CITY TO ALL PEOPLE! WAKE UP! Is Detroit being known as the hardest ass city in the country really what you guys want? I really dont think so. (or I hate to think that). Well, thats pretty much its aclaim now a days. If your happy with the status quo then I guess thats fine. I just hate it that I cannot live where I would like. MY HOME! Detroit really needs to soften its image guys!
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 670
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 9:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The fact the fist is a racial issue, says more about you and the minority of people who hate it for that reason than it does the City. I think it says people like you are looking for some racial bogeyman. Because no matter the facts, whether it was a gift from SI or its sculptor was white, it's still proof you aren't welcome in the city. Maybe, the city would seems more welcoming if you spent more time looking for reasons why you're wanted instead of concocting reasons why you aren't.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 697
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 11:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Selling off the parks

2. Electing Coleman Young with his hostile policies towards whites, people with money, and educated folk.

3. Getting rid of the old street lights
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Crash_nyc
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Username: Crash_nyc

Post Number: 749
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 3:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Destroying Rivertown.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5453
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 9:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Milwaukee,

Coleman Young live through racism when he have grew up in Detroit's Black Bottom district. He fought against racism with peaceful attitude. And he fought through racism by giving black Detroiters a chance to seize control of all businesses, schools, police and fire Depts. jobs, commerce and its once white Detroit neighborhoods. Coleman Young wants a create a developed futuristic Downtown Detroit by bringing in fewer Black owners, but some of them were not interested. He become mayor during in a staginflation America where OPEC stop supply of oil to anyone who supported the Jews in Israel. And where car companies were making gas guzzling CHITTY CHITTY BANG BANGS that on one wants to but due the poor fuel economy. So lots of Americans are starting to buy fuel efficient CHITTY CHITTY BANG BANGS. Anyway Coleman Young did his best to create a better Detroit, but blabbered against whites, telling crooks to HIT 8 MILE RD. and left Downtown Detroit into remants of Ancient Rome.

Anything that Coleman Young did, he got what he deserve.
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1st_sgt
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Username: 1st_sgt

Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 12:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Personally it would be bussing (Forced) me across town in the early 60's (2nd-6th grades) to an all white school in the projects. (Herman Elementary.)
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 168
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 12:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What are you talking about 1st_sgt? Forced busing and the desegregation of Detroit schools was not implemented until January 1976.

http://detnews.com/2004/specialreport/0405/17/a13-153991.htm

(Message edited by quozl on January 31, 2007)
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1st_sgt
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Username: 1st_sgt

Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 3:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was bussed from Ruthruff Elem in 1962 to Herman Elem, in the Herman gardens. It was forced. My parents disagreed, but was told they had no choice. I had all the paper work and threats from the school system but they have been lost over the years.
We boarded the Buses on Dover street. They were DSR busses chartered for the morning and evening trips. We had DSR bus drivers. (I left my ball glove on the bus onetime, my Grandfather went downtown to the bus station to the lost and found and got it back). We could not stay after school so band and after school things were out. Our neighborhood school (Ruthruff) was about 85-90% black and Herman was about 98% white. So I guess de-segregation started in the 60s when no one was looking.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5460
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 4:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now that's a fact even, during the Coleman Young era. While the city was 52% black and 45% white, 1.0% Asian and 2.6% Hispanic in 1976. Mayor Young is so proud that busing desegregation in Detroit Public School district was in full swing. But at the end lots of white Detroiters cried racial foul so more of them start packing.
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 171
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 4:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1st_sgt: So you got dumped off on Dover Street which in north of Joy Road and had to cross Joy Road, walk all the way down to Asbury Park and Tireman since Herman Elementary was on the Southeast corner of the projects?

Amazing!
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 172
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 4:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You poor kids did this without any police escort, the Detroit News or Detroit Free Press never picked up on this forced desegregation of an elementary school without a court order?

And DPS did this two years prior to President Johnson signing the Civil Rights Act outlawing segregation in public schools without groups of angry white parents and neighborhood improvement association involvement?
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 892
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 5:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love the fist. It's such a pure symbol of what Joe Louis did. I wouldn't change a thing about it.

(Message edited by eastsidedog on January 31, 2007)
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 893
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 6:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seriously though Gannon, I think Black Bottom would easily be on par with Corktown -- as far as old 19th century urban neighborhoods go -- if the city hadn't razed the whole neighborhood (it's also too bad that much of Corktown was plowed down for the Lodge and 75). I've heard that the last little piece of Black Bottom was razed when Ford Field was built. What a shame.

What city government fails to understand is that the popularity of ALL neighborhoods comes and goes. In the 50's/60's and 70's, when a neighborhoods popularity declined the city's solution was to raze it and build a suburb. Such a travesty. Now we're seeing more of an infill approach which is good, but still too much is being lost.

But I still think poor race relations is the #1 failure of Metro Detroit. And both blacks and whites are responsible for the divide (but mostly whites are responsible IMO). Statistically, whites are not willing to move into black neighborhoods, but blacks are more willing to move into white neighborhoods. It has always been this way, statistically, and holds true today.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 136
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 6:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Given the title of this thread, I am a bit astonished that people think racial segregation was a decision made by the City.

Eastsidedog, a lot of the reason many whites prefer to live in white neighborhoods is ignorance, but some of it has to do with history and especially block-busting. So many whites lost boatloads of money on houses because of this discriminatory and illegal tactic that they are gunshy about living in mixed-race neighborhoods. This descends to their children also.

This still goes on today, and other forms of discrimination too, all illegal. If you are a black professional (or can dress up like one) and have a white friend who is roughly economically in the same boat as you are, here's a fun game you can play. Go to Grosse Pointe and try to figure out, however you can, which houses are for sale. Then have your white friend go and do the same thing. I suspect you will get different results.

Two notes: first of all, I am not picking on GP, that is just one place (of many) where this takes place in a fairly obvious fashion. If you're white, shopping for a home down there, you will quickly find out about "the list" and where to get it; if you are nonwhite, people will deny to their last breath that any such list exists. (It does; I've seen it.) Second of all, I have lived in all-white, mostly-white, mixed-race and mostly-black neighborhoods over the years.

Michigan would do well to put some teeth behind its own enforcement of the Fair Housing Act, IMHO.

Professor Scott
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1st_sgt
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Username: 1st_sgt

Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 9:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quozl.
We lived on Burnett walked to Dover boarded ( Got on ) the Bus it drove all the way down Joy Rd past other schools, past Ford's grave site to the Herman Gardens projects turned left went down a side street with houses on one side projects on the other, got off and went to school. After eating lunch we went outside in side a fenced tennis court with a lunch monitor and played till class started, if it was raining we went into the auditorium and sat. After school we got back on the bus and returned home. There was AAA safety patrol (two) on each bus. In my 6th grade before graduation I was one (a sub) for 3 weeks. I was too young to know the reason then. Parents were upset but it must not have been city wide. There were three or four different busses; they all picked up on Dover Street. I graduated in June 1967 the Riots followed. We moved from the west side to the Southwest side of Detroit. Closer to my Moms work. Fisher body Fort Street plant the old Turnsteds. (Not sure of spelling.) This is all true.
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 173
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 11:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please accept my apology 1st_sgt, I totally forgot Dover Street also ran between Central Street and Livernois. Ruthruff Elementary was located on the corner of W. Chicago and Livernois, correct?

I did not mean to interrogate you on this subject. My Uncle was one of the attorneys that argued the Milliken v. Bradley Appeal in front of the Supreme Court of the United States on February 27, 1974. He was also involved with the case locally in Detroit in the early 1970's.

To his recollection and in examining all pleadings and evidence, it was NEVER introduced by the Plaintiffs nor the Defendants that DPS had successfully demonstrated desegregation through cross-city busing. Actually, the evidence showed that Afro-American children had been intentionally confined to an expanding core of virtually all-Black schools immediately surrounded by a receding band of all-white schools as late as 1972. There is no mention of Herman Elementary anywhere or the forced removal and busing of children from Ruthruff Elementary. Do you think they did this as Ruthruff Elementary was overcrowded or something along those lines?

I remember Herman Gardens and the school very well. My Grandmother had a friend from Scotland that lived there with her 3 daughters in the late 50's till about 1969. They attended Herman Elementary for a while but ended up going to Our Lady of Heaven on W. Chicago and I think they all graduated from Rosary HS on Joy Road.

I believe you Sarge, I am simply astounded that desegregation was accomplished under the radar of the media, PTA's, NAACP and the Courts.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to clarify, I really appreciate it.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5462
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 9:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Eastsidedog,

Race relations is the #1 doomed to failure in Detroit and its suburbs. As long as racism is historically perfect. Generations of people will learn from it and maybe accept it to fear other people or reject it for fellowship reasons.
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Rjlj
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Username: Rjlj

Post Number: 242
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 10:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To even consider this makes me pissed.

www.cityscapedetroit.org/caseS tudies/CostOfDemolition.pdf
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 894
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 10:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My point professorscott is that blacks are more willing to live with people who are different than whites. Whites are more resistant to integration and are therefore the real problem. Blacks have been doing their part for years, moving into white neighborhoods only to see them turn all black in one generation. This pattern has been repeating OVER and OVER in Metro Detroit for decades and continues with the new white flight to the exurbs. Thus it is racism that exacerbates sprawl, stretches our resources (more roads, schools and infrastructure, same population), causes the emptying of the inner city (Black flight ot the suburbs), the decentralization of jobs, and the decline of job opportunities for the poor (most job creation is in the exurbs where the whites and the money is).

It is my point of view that Detroit city government and local suburban governments are merely reflections of their generally narrow-minded citizenry. LBP is a perfect example, as is CAY. Both served their citizenry at the expense of the region. The difference is CAY served a citizenry that had been getting screwed over for decades, so among many blacks there was/is a sense of justice in the decisions he made. This seems to me why he is so controversial among whites today.

Freeways can be removed or capped, neighborhoods can be rebuilt (to some extent), but racism runs deep and is very difficult to repair.

The only solution I see is whites need to stop running and learn to get along. Whites moving back into the heart of the city is huge plus. IMO probably the biggest progress made towards integration has been made in the last 10 years.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 895
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 10:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting breakdown Rjlj. It's interesting to note that their projected figures for potential taxes from turning the "dirty dozen" into residential include much more income from property taxes than from income taxes. IMO the city needs to shift towards depending more on property taxes and phasing out the income tax.
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 176
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 11:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whites are more resistant to integration and are therefore the real problem.

ROTFLMFAO!
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 696
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 11:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Professor, I'm not disputing your point about housing discrimination, but what "list" are you talking about?

I also agree with your post #87 regarding the water and sewer system. The blind expansion over the decades by the DWSD really condemned this region to unchecked sprawl. And the ease of movement facilitated by this sprawl perpetuated the segregated living patterns. These living patterns continue to fuel the racial tensions that pervade too many of our civic problems.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 434
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 11:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's another one. Abandoning STRESS (by CAY.) [I recall it stood for "Stop robberies, enjoy safe streets."]

A very effective program to stop black-on-black crime. Apparently deemed politically incorrect way back then.

Detroit would be a much better city today if the program still existed.
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1st_sgt
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Username: 1st_sgt

Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 4:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quozl.
Were cool.
You are right the school was across from a fire station I think.
I don't know the reason given, but I know what transpired and the outcome. Herman Gardens seemed like a paradise compared to my neighborhood by 1968. Then it went down hill fast. Reason ?
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 180
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 5:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks 1st_sgt. I remember your neighborhood too. My cousin had some rent houses over there on Stoepel St before they put the Jeffries Fwy in. We went over there on the weekends to help him fix them up and clean 'em out when renters moved out. We drove through there last summer and it seemed like loads of the houses were torn down or barely habitable.

I was totally shocked to see Herman Gardens a massive field now. When I left Detroit in '74 it seemed like it too was going downhill fast. I would think the most viable reason would have to be white flight of the residents and the businesses.

My parents moved out in '74 after some joker started to shoot at my Dad and me when we were working in my Grandma's garage on Terry St. Fortunately he was a bad shot and missed the two of us but he nailed the back lights of my Dad's '68 Shelby 500. I always thought it was one of the dudes I pissed off when I attended Cooley in '72-'73 and he came back to say "hello".
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Erikd
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Username: Erikd

Post Number: 802
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 6:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Failing to expand the city limits after the last annexation in 1927. They could have crossed Eight Mile also; there is no law against a corporate city being in more than one county. Grosse Pointe Shores is an example.



This played a huge role in the deline of Detroit, but it was done by the state, not the city. Michigan changed the annexation laws in 1927 to stop the rapid expansion of Detroit.
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Chuckles
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Username: Chuckles

Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 6:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Coleman Young was the wrong man at the wrong time...all downhill with his administration and attitude.
We have never recovered...

Chuckles
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5467
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 9:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chuckles,

You maybe right on your viewpoint. Coleman Young should have became mayor in the late 1980s. During that time white flight to the suburbs have slowed down, alternative manufacturing jobs will be fixed, black folks in the their own ghettohoods wouldn't make it to the northwest and northeast side of Detroit but have a good sizeable community. Downtown Detroit would be still booming with shops and restuarants and clubs that includes J.L. Hudson's flagship Dept. store. More blacks would be up the Oakland County suburbs occupying suburban cities of R.O.TWP. Ferndale, Pleasant Ridge, Parts of Royal Oak, Oak Park, parts of Southfield, Hazel Park, Berkley, Huntington Woods, Lathrup Village, and southern parts of Madison Heights. That includes some Macomb Co. cities of southern parts of Warren all of Eastpointe and parts of Roseville.

Of Coleman Young became Young Mayor of Detroit in 1984. By 1990 Detroit's Black population would have reached 44% by than in the year 2000 While Kwame Kilpatrick became mayor of Detroit the Black population on Detroit would have increased in 49%. The entire city population would have been about 1,490,654. with lots of neighborhood and retail development, good schools and a 12% reduced crime rate.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5468
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 10:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the 1967 riots didn't happen. Then White flight for Detroit to the suburbs wouldn't have been accelerated. Detroit's white population would have been decreasing, but only in small numbers. Only to be increased to over 1,000,000 people by the mid 1980s if Detroit have a black mayor that done a good jobs building ethnic bridges a black guy like Coleman Young. The Black population would have increasing for a moment in the 1970s but only to decreased by the early 1980s due to the early affordable housing opportunities in Southfield, Lathrup Village and Oak Park. Downtown Detroit would have bustling with new retail and people walking around. J.L. Hudson's flagship store would have open for a long time. Detroit Public Schools would have intergrated with black, white and Hispanic students without any closings. the crime rate would have been reduced. and the Olympic Games, and Super Bowl should have held in Downtown Detroit in 1988.

If the riots would not happen in Detroit then the population in the 2000 Census would be have been over 1,790,000. by now. Instead of 860,000.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5469
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 10:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But now The riots left a racial scar in face of Detroit. Therefore its history and everyone black and white, red and yellow is going to tell their children and their childrens' children the racial segregated history of Detroit for forever until the end of time.

WORST DECISION COMES TO DETROIT IF WE'RE BEING TOO DOGMATIC FOR OWN GOOD.

WORST DECISION COMES TO DETROIT IF WE'RE USING DEDUCTIVE REASONING.

WORST DECISION COMES TO DETROIT IF WE'RE USING FEAR AS A CURE TO SOLVE THE RACISM ISSUE.

WORST DECISION COMES TO DETROIT IF WE'RE USING LIES TO SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS AND AVOID THE VALUE OF TRUTH.


AND WORST DECISIONS COMES TO DETROIT IF OUR DETROIT LEADERS CONTINUE TO CUT CITY SERVICES FOR THEIR BENEFIT AND NOT THE SAKE OF THE PEOPLE.
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Chuckles
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Username: Chuckles

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 1:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny, carrying on about Detroit and bad decisions is pointless, useless and has no ending or redeeming value.

Detroit is what it is today and that is what we have to live with for better or for worse.

To each his own it is all relative...

Sorry if I riled you up with my picking Coleman Young but you have to move on now.....

Chuckles...Detroit to the bone....zone 28
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5478
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 9:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's another worst decision for Detroit. Destroying POLETOWN for a GM plant during the stag-inflated economy. The one the Coleman Young supported and his way of getting back on white-folks from destroying Black Bottom and Paradise Valley.
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Nickstone
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Username: Nickstone

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 5:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Read Origins of the Urban Crisis by Thomas Segrue... question answered (though complicated)... question answered.
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Peachlaser
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Username: Peachlaser

Post Number: 56
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 10:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All Water under the bridge...

The people of Detroit (and not the government) need to find a way to fill that big ole hole that used to be Detroit.

Take all these cultural divisions and make them the starting point for something new. Why not make Detroit the home of Cultural Festivals? Hold them throughout the abandoned area north of downtown. There are probably enough distinct ethnic cultural groups to have a festival every month of the year. The Nordic cultures could host the winter festivals. Have music, food, costumes, history lectures and make it a good time for all.

When I say 'Detroit', I mean the whole metro area that comprises the history of Detroit. The people of Detroit would have to be cool though and NO VIOLENCE. I would suggest sending in as many Michigan State Troopers as necessary to ensure that a peaceful outdoor congregation of cultures can still happen today in Detroit.

Make Detroit the center of cultural festivals. Make tourism the #1 industry. Start putting up historical markers. There is a ton of history in Detroit and promote it. Set up historical tours of Lowell's Ruins of Detroit. I tell you it scares the hell out of a lot of people and they can't believe it when they see Detroit today. But, some people like the jolt of experiences like this. Just make sure they are SAFE. And with the festivals, start repopulating the area with support services, new businesses, renovations, etc. Use the festivals to plant the seeds for the city's future.

Once they get started, everybody has to support them at all costs to make sure they succeed. When the people of the 'burbs start coming back, they need to be welcomed and the 'burb people need to look around and realize that what they see is part of their history and culture.

Just wanted to plant a seed of hope in this discussion.
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 88
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 8:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They used to have the "ethnic festivals" and they were fun. Not sure if they still have them. The last time I went though I got robbed by a "kid" with a big gun. It was at the Italian festival. I used to enjoy going to the festivals till that time. That was the last one I went to before I moved. Is this what your talking about reviving Peach?
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Peachlaser
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Username: Peachlaser

Post Number: 57
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 9:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ex,
It sounds like what I am talking about, albeit without 'kids with big guns'. I did not know there were once ethnic festivals. How many people attended? Did they draw people in from the 'burbs? For this to really work, there can be no guns or violence. That is Detroit's biggest challenge...how do you get people to congregate without the violence and crime?
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Blort
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Username: Blort

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 2:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The worst decision they made in the last decade was

- Allowing the Tigers to move out of Tiger Stadium
- Allowing Tiger Stadium to rot.
- Allowing whatever mediocre architectural firm to design that tacky cheesy abomination called "Comerica Park".
- Allowing a bank to name our new ballpark.
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 91
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 8:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes we did have "Ethnic" festivals back in the 70/80's (not sure when they ended) they had festivals every weekend in the summer. Polish festivals, itailan festivals, african-american festivals, the hoe-down etc. They were great and yes it did draw people from the burbs. Hopefully if people come down for the music fest over memorial day and have a good safe time, they'll keep coming back. I had posted some of my experiences on here. I removed them, I want to see a good detroit and put what happened in the past

Maybe some of the forumers will be able to tell us when the Festivals ended. Also would like a recommendation for a decent hotel close to Hart plaza for that saturday night. Ok D, Im coming with a new positive attitude.

Sorry didnt mean to get off track. Worst decision by Detroit? Again, Race Relations!
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Defendbrooklyn
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Username: Defendbrooklyn

Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 4:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not capitalizing on Presidents Fords Generous offer of 750 million federal funds for a regional mass transit system
THE END
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1009
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 4:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The festivals ended largely due to problems at the Yugoslavian festival. That was back when Yugoslavia was bigger than it is today. At that time the Serbs and Croats would show up and fights and shootings would undoubtably happen.
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Thames
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Username: Thames

Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 4:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ending bulk garbage pick-up.
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Eric_w
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Username: Eric_w

Post Number: 31
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 5:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe we should narrow things down- pick a good idea or decision Detroit has made

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