Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 2000 Jobs Lost in Ann Arbor Previous Next
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1365
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 12:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pfizer has announced the closing of the Ann Arbor Research center.... More
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 140
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 12:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wonder if Granholm knew about this one prior to the election? This non-automotive layoff alone totally wipes out all the jobs she has claimed to create in her entire term. I guess we won't be needing that light rail system!
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1366
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 12:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.detnow.com/wxyz/nw_ local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ _15924_5296940,00.html
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1367
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone else sick of being "Blown Away"?
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 310
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All I can say is "wow". The state of Michigan better come up with something quick.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2200
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WJR stated in its account that there were 2500 AA employees, not 2000. The website mentioned that there were over 2000. That job/revenue loss will surely be felt in the smaller AA economy.

State unemployment for '07 is predicted to be 7.1% with another 0.5% added for '08. Some economist stated this month that MI was not in a recession any longer because last year the preliminary stats indicated a small sliver of growth (compared to an already bad year, at that). Gee, I'm impressed.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on January 22, 2007)
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 301
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While I am not a big fan of Granholm, it isn't the states job to provide employment. The environment simply needs to be better set up for businesses apparently. In this case it isn't an issue of the jobs going overseas or something. So who knows what could have been done to prevent it.
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Mattric43
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Username: Mattric43

Post Number: 113
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I want to sue Granholm for false advertising!! Charlottepaul check out the mental hospital thread I replied to your comment.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 327
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It isn't the state's job, but Granholm should be out campaigning harder for jobs. If she can go out and campaign like mad for some large companies to come in, maybe things will get better. Heck, if Urban Meyer could persuade the BCS...

Note: After Florida killed OSU, I'm not complaining about them going. It was just used as an example.
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Jdkeepsmiling
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Username: Jdkeepsmiling

Post Number: 151
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How can anyone blame the governor on this. Please explain to me how this would have been different if DeVos had been in office? People give way to much blame and credit for the economy to the governor. This is a decision that clearly has to do with Pfizer's tumbling marketshare as regards generics. We just happen to be where their research center is. If it was in New Jersey, they would be freaking out there right now.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 7962
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Come ON, folks...what do we think our Jennifer could do against this bursting dike?!


She's only got SO many fingers.
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The_nerd
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Username: The_nerd

Post Number: 373
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For me, it's just further proof that Granholm lacks the balls (no pun intended) to make drastic changes to improve Michigan's economy. I'm just waiting for here to (1) create a study/panel to understand why Pfizer left (2) go on television talking about "feeling our pain" and maybe doing a "town meeting" *with a pre-selected audiance* (3) [insert reference to "cool cities" solving all of our economic problems here] (4) Blame the Republican legislature/Engler and her predecessors for not diversifying the economy (5) mention pfizer as the reason to raise taxes (6) all of the above.

Let's face it, Michigan is no longer competitive and keeping the status quo will lead to more economic disaster.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 329
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't want to completely blame the governor. Companies do need to make decisions and there is only so much Granholm can do about it. But she should try to stop companies leaving and get people in here. At least Google was a start.
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Zephyrprocess
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Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 226
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This has very little to do with "Michigan's business climate."

Pfizer's problem is they have no new profitable drugs coming online while many of their mainstay revenue generators are due to lose patent protection very soon (if not already)

Lipitor brings in $12.2 billion in revenues every year; its patent expires March 2010, but downward price pressure will begin this year as competing product cholesterol drug Zocor goes generic.

Norvasc loses protection this year; so long to those $4.7 billion. Zoloft went off patent last year, and Zyrtec's expires this year. Those two together are another $4.5 billion annually.

That's a pretty big hit for a company with total annual revenues in the $50-60 billion range.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3625
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Better yet why donm;t some of those that like to point fingers simply run for office. You spew so much fault (unless it outright madness like Bush), yet you lack the desire, drive, or motivation to run...

But you will easily strike someone down who is actually trying to do in five years what it took an inept past Repugnican Governor twelve years to fuck up! And he wasn't stupid he moved his ass to VA soon AFTER he was out of office because he knew what consequences his action were soon to cause...

I seriously believe that the vast majority of those on this forum knows nothing about politics farther than what they see right now.
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Cinderpath
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Username: Cinderpath

Post Number: 35
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know Amway Dick would have stopped this with a multi-level marketing plan. He would have taken them all to the double-diamond level.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 7964
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think we should pass a law that if a corporation leaves a municipality hanging after the government offered and secured bonuses and tax breaks for the location of said corporation...then the corporation loses it's charter to perform its duties anywhere within the state.

If significant tax breaks were secured, then their manufacturing hardware, assets, and intellectual property use is levied until they stick around long enough to fulfill the equations used to determine the breaks.


In this case, Pfizer would at least lose the ability to sell their drugs here. I know this steps all OVER interstate commerce, so it will be seen as anti-federalist.

Perhaps it is...as long as the federal bastards stay in lockstep with the corporations. Jennifer should take the side of indigenous people and natural resources...what she'll be left with by the end of her term, if this trend continues.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3626
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol Cinder...
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1319
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice try Zephyr, but the folks around here would rather blame the Governor... or the Federal Government, or Kwame or Karl...

Fact is that Pfizer has been reducing their R&D departments for over 3 years now, I don't think anyone at Pfizer is all that surprised right now.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 1038
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pfizer to close Ann Arbor campus

http://www.mlive.com/aanews/la test/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mlive_a anewslive/archives/2007_01.htm l#228046
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 330
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For all who want to know, the governor will be on wxyz.com at 2:30 to give her reaction.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 141
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the Governor's office has no effect on anything then we should eliminate it completely. Jenny takes credit for job's she "creates" and then blames others when jobs are lost on her watch.

Maybe some of her apologists, who are legion on this site can explain to me just what the hell a governor does? Clearly there is something about the business environment here that companies don't like.

Pfizer is not closing down as a company but they somehow see the Ann Arbor facility as expendable. Why?

(Message edited by perfectgentleman on January 22, 2007)
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1320
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe if you actually read the article you'd see that they're closing down plants in Nebraska and NY too... so is it Spitzer's fault, too?

I don't think they necessarily find AA expendible, it's just a "cost-saving" move taken by a company that's losing money.

(Message edited by susanarosa on January 22, 2007)
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 311
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ann Arbor wasn't Pfizer's headquarters. Think of it like GM closing an assembly plant in Kentucky... Get it now? :-\
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1686
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Because they need to shed $2 Billion a year off of expenses. That is why they are expendable.
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Mthouston
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Username: Mthouston

Post Number: 675
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pfizer will get rid on of total of 10,000 employees worldwide, this is according to the story in todays Washington Post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01 /22/AR2007012200577.html.

Perfectgentlemen if you are unclear as to what the Governor job is, I would suggest you read the CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN.
http://www.tiny.cc/MIconstitut ion
It pretty much lays out what the Governor is supposed to do.
I don't think you will find anything about creating or protecting private sector jobs.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1621
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

notice that the American R&D sites are definitely closing while the European ones could remain open

high quality job loss is a national problem that very few are even trying to address
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11160
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Anyone else sick of being "Blown Away"?



...in 5 more years!
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 142
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mthouston - OK, then Granholm should come out and say that and tell us all that jobs don't matter and it isn't her job to worry about it!

The whole fuckin' campaign was about economics, and that was the #1 issue on the voter's minds, yet the governor has no role in the problem?

(Message edited by perfectgentleman on January 22, 2007)
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1622
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

she has a job
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1306
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pfizer's stuff in K Zoo where actually what was left of Upjohn when they were bought by Pfizer. Look at it like when Whirlpool took over Maytag. They closed everything that was in Iowa, moved a few headquarters jobs to Benton Harbor. We were lucky to have kept what was left of Upjohn in MI for as long as we had them.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 331
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wait 3 years. Then it could be interesting with her.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 143
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mthouston - There are many areas where state government plays a HUGE role in the business climate including taxation, the size of state government, regulation, labor laws, crime legislation to name a few.

Apparently other states are looking more attractive than we do here. Yes other states lose jobs too, including in this situation. The issue is that they are also CREATING jobs to offset that mainly because business sees those states as being a better place be.

(Message edited by perfectgentleman on January 22, 2007)
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 312
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One big hurdle she has to get over is making Michissippi attractive to ANY company looking to relocate...
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Raanne
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Username: Raanne

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well, this is what they were given - what other tax breaks should we have offered them to keep pfizer here?
<br><br>
# A 20-year credit on the Single Business Tax (SBT) worth an estimated $25.8 million. Pfizer announced its expansion on the same day after the Michigan Economic Development Corp. earlier awarded the credit on the SBT, the only general business tax levied by the state.

# A 12-year abatement of the six-mill State Education Tax, valued at $10.7 million; and

# A 12-year abatement on Ann Arbor's property tax, approved the night before Pfizer's announcement and valued at $47.7 million
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1307
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Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 2:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are tradeoffs. Yes, there are places where the taxes are low and are attracting jobs. But they are also places where not everyone wants to live. There is also something called quality of life. There are lots of jobs coming to Montana because of the booming natural gas, oil and coal in the area. But there are also much less services, no sports teams, symphonies, great art museums, etc. The south is the south, much lower standard of living. So there are tradeoffs. Illinois and Indiana have just as high taxes as MI, but they are still attracting jobs because of the education levels of its residents and people want to live there. Yes let the SBT go away and not replace it with anything, but then we can kiss semi-affordable college education, police and fire, and many other things that make the standard of living so great. The question is do we want to turned into a southern state with low taxes and very few services, or do we want to do some tweaking and figure out how to make our money work best (like passing the bill to end the MEA/MESSA teacher health care monopoly). How about working of not putting so many people in jail? We have more people in jail now because we are afraid of another Patrick Selepak coming through. There are things that can be done without making us a southern state of poor educational systems and no services.
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Mthouston
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Username: Mthouston

Post Number: 676
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 3:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Mthouston - OK, then Granholm should come out and say that and tell us all that jobs don't matter and it isn't her job to worry about it!



We all know that jobs matter, but what would YOU have the Governor do to create jobs? How about our Legislature what would you have them do.
It is not the role of government to create or protect jobs in the private sector, that ship sailed with NAFTA and other such treaties.
I think it's time we all grow up. If you want to save and create jobs in Michigan you are going to have take your fight to the Corporations.
quote:

The whole fuckin' campaign was about economics, and that was the #1 issue on the voter's minds, yet the governor has no role in the problem?


It's always about the economy.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 144
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 3:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

REPEAT

Mthouston - There are many areas where state government plays a HUGE role in the business climate including taxation, the size of state government, regulation, labor laws, crime legislation to name a few.

Apparently other states are looking more attractive than we do here. Yes other states lose jobs too, including in this situation. The issue is that they are also CREATING jobs to offset that mainly because business sees those states as being a better place be.
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Mthouston
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Username: Mthouston

Post Number: 677
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 3:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

REPEAT

Mthouston - There are many areas where state government plays a HUGE role in the business climate including taxation, the size of state government, regulation, labor laws, crime legislation to name a few.



And I'll repeat my question

WHAT DO YOU! want the State Government to do.
Where do you start?
Buy the time those morons in the our State Government get around to doing anything it will be to late (if it is not to late already).
A major shift in the economy of Michigan is going to be spurred by the people, not the Government.
It's going to be a long and painful road.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 334
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 3:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mt, it does take the government to persuade companies to come into the state. You do need to give them tax breaks and such for persuasion. Although citizens need to do their part as well.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 1040
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 3:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To say taxes or business climate in the state determines whether companies stay or go is at best naive and at worst self-inflicted blind ignorance. Many other factors play much more significant parts, such as age and quality of the location's facilities, quality of its workforce, location of the facilities and management's partiality to a location to name just a few. So many of you are flaming on Granholm as if she made the decision to cut those jobs. A governor can often end up having very little power in these types of corporate decisions, which are made in the best interest of the company's shareholders not the communities they support.
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Mthouston
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Username: Mthouston

Post Number: 678
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Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 3:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure tax breaks are appealing to major corporation.
How many do think will really give Michigan a chance?
Give the tax breaks to the companies who have elected to stay in Michigan. I believe the home grown economy is the answer. These are the people who really care about Michigan and its people.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 335
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 3:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Taxes were the first things to come to my head. I know there are many more things that come into play, that is just what I thought of when I said what I said.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 145
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 4:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan is visited constantly by government officials from other states and countries trying to woo business into moving their companies there.

Tax abatements are offered and there is host of other incentives on the table as well. One of the issues is that we have lost jobs to "right to work" states. We can all argue about the value of unions, but the fact is that we will never get a transplant from Honda, Toyota or Nissan as long as they perceive that there is an adversarial climate between labor and business.

Granholm cannot even discuss reforms in this area of course because she is beholden to labor politically.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 7967
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 4:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If there is inter-state competition with offerings on the table, who controls THAT market?


How is this corporate temptation regulated?!
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1623
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 4:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hope the state sues Pfizer for every cent of taxes waived and loss of total future economic benefit for every year those tax breaks were to run
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1624
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Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 4:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gannon, it's regulated by what the states can afford. Unfortunately since Michigan pays in so much more to the Fed than we get back, and the excess paid in gets redistributed to other states and D.C., we're essentially funding our own decline.
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 528
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 4:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WDET has been running the story, they're not just shutting down in MI, also NY and NE are having their facilities shut down.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 146
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 4:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lilpup - that is a good point. I suppose that means that Levin, Stabenow, Granholm, Dingel and Conyers are failing to address that. This issue is not Bush's fault, he has not vetoed any spending at all (unfortunately) so if we are not getting our fair share of money then it appears to be the responsibility of our reps in congress and Granholm.

(Message edited by perfectgentleman on January 22, 2007)
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 7971
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Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 4:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lilpup,

Amazingly clear, once you hear it, huh?!
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 336
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 5:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great point Lilpup.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1625
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 5:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

less Granholm than the reps - but why name just the Dems? where have all the state Republican reps been these last many years when they were in the majority? And while Michigan overall seems to be hurting the most neighboring states were the nation's leaders in job loss last year. The entire Great Lakes region is taking a dive.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 147
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 5:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like the part of Granholm's speech where she tells the laid off employees to stay in Michigan and that help is on the way. How can she say that if she has nothing to do with employment or the economy? Hell, they can't leave anyway because they won't be able to sell their houses!

(Message edited by perfectgentleman on January 22, 2007)

(Message edited by perfectgentleman on January 22, 2007)
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2054
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 5:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! Being a life long ann arbortite I do appreciate this thread. Some good things being posted here.

I believe AA was the largest U.S. R&D site. And boy do I remember when the tax breaks were given to Pfizer.Of course Pfizer told us they were going to do all kinds of building and more and more jobs would be coming...........it never happened_ btw lilpup I believe there is something in place for the city to recuperate financially since Pfizer as near as I can tell has not lived up to any part of the deal.

It's easy to blame the gov or whoever but that serves no useful purpose.And at least it will be phased out somewhat gradually.

Also I believe several people had died from a drug Pfizer hoped to market and that has played a more than insiginificant part in their troubles.

Along these same lines the city of AA has offered free parking to google.But that just pisses off the businesses that are already there paying for parking...........they want to know where this parking is coming from as there are people waiting for available parking now........and they are willing to pay for it.........but Google gets it free.Hopefully something might be learned from the Pfizer thing.

As for our state government.Sorry but we elected a bunch of dumbshits.These are offcials that want to cut taxes and cut taxes and cut more taxes.They are against stem cell research(how many jobs are we losing there?)They want to teach creationism as a legitimate science or at least in that curriculum..... the bullshit goes on and on.

Whoever said the change aint gonna come from gov't is right.And while I don't blame the governor maybe it is time for her to stop playing wishy washy politics with the welfare of our state and take something to the people that exposes the backward thinking of the religious crowd.I only hope we have enough enlightened people to get pissed of enough to do something.
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Angry_dad
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Username: Angry_dad

Post Number: 124
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 5:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Michigan is visited constantly by government officials from other states and countries trying to woo business into moving their companies there.

Tax abatements are offered and there is host of other incentives on the table as well. One of the issues is that we have lost jobs to "right to work" states. We can all argue about the value of unions, but the fact is that we will never get a transplant from Honda, Toyota or Nissan as long as they perceive that there is an adversarial climate between labor and business.

Granholm cannot even discuss reforms in this area of course because she is beholden to labor politically."

IMO, states compete against states for jobs. The primary method seems to be the dangling of the carrot of tax incentives. When it all shakes out, those tax incentives are indirectly funded via federal revenue sharing. Wouldn't a simple solution be that any state that gifts a tax incentive lose the matching amount in federal revenue sharing?

BTW, correct me if wrong but that would take away over 500 million from Texas to Toyota and a similar amount for Mississippi to Nissan.

(Message edited by angry dad on January 22, 2007)
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11164
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 7:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Gov. Jennifer Granholm met with the media in Ann Arbor this afternoon, saying she wants to do everything she can to keep former Pfizer employees in the state.



Perhaps many of these people won't be able to wait 5 more years to be blown away.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 148
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 7:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The statement by Granholm was empty rhetoric, she was only there to convince everyone it wasn't her fault the jobs were lost. Nothing will be done for these people, they are better off taking their severance and getting the hell out of dodge.

This reminds me of her statement that her election win was a victory for the workers in Greenville who lost their jobs, as far as I know most of those people are still out of work. If they are working, it is due to their efforts and not the pandering asshole of a governor we have.

(Message edited by perfectgentleman on January 22, 2007)
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Mike
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Username: Mike

Post Number: 821
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 8:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zephyrprocess, good post, you must be in the business.

having recently moved from kalamazoo, i can tell you that this will hurt k-zoo much more than aa.

what michigan needs is another home grown genius such as henry ford, or someone to invent something that only gets made in michigan/ the only way to do that is to invest in the future, oh wait, we cut school funding accross the board and made it more expensive to attend one of michigan's higher education institutions/

that still doesnt mean that i dont believe the children are our future, we should let them lead the way and show them all the beauty they posess inside.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 996
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 9:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

While I am not a big fan of Granholm, it isn't the states job to provide employment.



correct. it's the state's job to provide unemployment.

...and, the folks receiving it, are the folks that love granholm.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 210
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 9:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correction: 2,100 jobs.
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Scottr
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Username: Scottr

Post Number: 177
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 9:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

correct. it's the state's job to provide unemployment.

...and, the folks receiving it, are the folks that love granholm.



i'd have to be an exception to that. And i'm not exactly being blown away by my unemployment check.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 1041
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 9:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It amazes me how some people absolutely hate Granholm and can't wait for any excuse to blame everything that is wrong with the world on her. It's not like she stole an election or lied to get into an unnecessary and costly war that resulted in her incompetence getting their kid killed. It's also funny how people will use this as an excuse to drag out the same old right to work argument. Phizer's campus wasn't unionized nor in any danger of it. When was the last time you heard about researchers unionizing? Also, Phizer has decided to keep is manufacturing facility, a place much more likely to be organized if it isn't already, in K-zoo. Still think the labor climate played any part in that decision? How about taxes? Every bureaucrat and politician from the state to the city would have been willing to let Phizer stay tax free to preserve even a fraction of those jobs, especially now. Still think taxes played a key role in that? What might have played a significant role is the state's ban on embryonic stem cell research, a product of the Engler and GOP-controlled state legislature years. Then again, none of the conservatives want to talk about that.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 997
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 9:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Granholm should be out campaigning harder for jobs



it's politics. granholm campaigns for votes, and her recent win means the mcnamara machine stays in place. union leaders and vocal minority representatives turn out the vote, while the core issues eroding the state's economy have not subsided in momentum.

campaigning harder for jobs would require union-busting and reduction of entitlements, and cost granholm an election.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 998
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 9:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

It amazes me how some people absolutely hate Granholm and can't wait for any excuse to blame everything that is wrong with the world on her. It's not like she stole an election or lied to get into an unnecessary and costly war that resulted in her incompetence getting their kid killed.



oooh, i hate ad hominem attacks (said e_hemingway)...unless, of course, i'm the one dishing them out.

<< post edited to give proper credit to e_hemingway >>

(Message edited by thecarl on January 22, 2007)
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 4616
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 10:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

what michigan needs is another home grown genius such as henry ford, or someone to invent something that only gets made in michigan/ the only way to do that is to invest in the future, oh wait, we cut school funding accross the board and made it more expensive to attend one of michigan's higher education institutions



Henry Ford went to an higher education institute?

Hell, with his resume, he couldn't get hired at Ford Motor Company to sweep floors.
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Gildas
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Username: Gildas

Post Number: 930
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 10:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"In five years, things are really going to blow."

I may have misquoted that, but you get the idea.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 1043
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 10:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"What michigan needs is another home grown genius such as henry ford, or someone to invent something."

That already happened with Google cofounder Larry Page. Raised in East Lansing, UofM grad and went to Stanford (I think) for grad school where he and a classmate invented Google. The brain drain hurts the state more than anything.
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Yvette248
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Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 384
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even if we did invent something here, they would still ship it off to Taiwan somewhere for manufacturing. Let's face it, the heyday of manufacturing is over. The whole midwest is racing against the clock - it has absolutely nothing to do with politics.
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 288
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gooooooooo Michigan!!!!!!
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 701
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok, let's give Jen Jen a spanking and move on.

Now about how that 5% tax increase is going to attract more businesses...

and about that life sciences corridor...
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 149
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The business climate here is why we do not create new jobs to replace the ones we lose. I did not give those reasons as to why Pfizer closed its facility.

Unions are a problem, as are state government employees with benefits that far outshine those offered in the private sector. If we are all going to suck hind tit, then the public employees need to join the party, including the sacred cows in the academic world.

I pay for my own medical and have no dental or disability insurance. I have no pension whatsoever. The state budget has grown while we lose jobs and people to other states. Granholm's answer is to raise taxes instead of reducing spending.

The state legislature should not be a full time job, and all layers of this useless government should be reduced as clearly they are costing us money while doing nothing to improve the situation.

If you want entrepreneurs like Henry Ford to come here and flourish, we have to unshackle the private sector by reducing regulation, taxes and red tape.

I tried to start a manufacturing company myself that would have created jobs but the investors backed out because they were concerned about the cost of liability insurance. It is now nearly impossible to get much less afford for a startup company. This is because Wayne County juries are more hostile to corporate plaintiffs than anywhere else in the country. If you operate without insurance, some slip and fall attorney will sue you and take your house.

Henry Ford would never be able to start an automobile company in this state today, nor could anyone else. He would lose his ass because of the enormous cost of doing business here. The ridiculous work rules imposed by the union would drive him out of his mind and make the company inefficient. Having to pay for millions of dollars worth of prescription drugs 20 years after his workers and their spouses retire would make him realize his business is doomed.

All of you who say that Granholm cannot have any positive impact on the business climate are wrong. She should start by telling the truth about why we don't get new investment here. She cannot do this because she has allied herself with those people who are part of the problem, not the solution. She also has no background in business whatsoever. She is just another lawyer who bullshitted her way into public office.

Her emphasis in the campaign was that companies like Pfizer were going to be the future of the state, yet she didn't know that they were planning on closing up shop? I have news for her anyway, the so-called "life-sciences" jobs are also being sent overseas. Many of the base compounds used in this industry are now being made in India and China. Does Jenny realize this? Does she even know what is on the minds of the job creators in the business world? It appears not.

Manufacturing is not dead, THERE ARE MORE CARS BEING MANUFACTURED IN THE US THAN EVER BEFORE, JUST NOT IN MICHIGAN!!! The names on the plants have changed, but cars and alot of other stuff are being made here. The southern states are enjoying making Honda's, Toyota's, Nissan's and BMW's. Shit, even Ohio has a Honda plant! If those idiots can get a transplant why can't we?
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1626
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 5:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

nice political rant, too bad it doesn't help anything
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5436
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 6:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The manufacturing jobs maybe gone from Ann Arbor , but 1,000 jobs from Google is coming. It least its not a total loss.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 150
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lilpup - Do any of these discussions actually "help" anything? If this board is designed to actually have an impact on a problem it should be shut down.

Danny - The Google jobs, if they ever reach 1000, are not technology jobs, they are lower level marketing jobs for people selling internet ads.
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Bratt
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Username: Bratt

Post Number: 446
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well if we are going to play the blame game, let's start at the top.

Shit trickles down hill people. It starts with your president. The economy sucks...companies are cutting back...people are losing jobs. This is much bigger than Jennifer Granholm.

If Michigan was the only state in the United States who had a struggling economy...I would then say yes, maybe it is Jennifer's fault. But it's all over. Companies closing plants, struggling schools, budget cuts and layoffs.

Enough said.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 151
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Bratt, the rest of the country is doing far better than we are here.

(Message edited by perfectgentleman on January 23, 2007)
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Kronprinz
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Username: Kronprinz

Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

send your resumes:
http://www.courier-journal.com /apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20 070123/BUSINESS/701230351
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Wazootyman
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Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 185
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 10:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess I really underestimated the power of the governor. From what I read here, it seems that every job that's been lost over the last few years is her fault.

Man, I really wish she would have put on the lab coat the produced a few more drugs that would have kept the R&D operation profitable! But it's okay, I suppose she didn't have time in between building automotive components and managing efficiency on factory floors.

She should have at least given them a tax break. A couple million here or these would certainly counteract the billions to be lost with expiring patents.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2203
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 10:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Well if we are going to play the blame game, let's start at the top.

Shit trickles down hill people. It starts with your president. The economy sucks...companies are cutting back...people are losing jobs. This is much bigger than Jennifer Granholm.

If Michigan was the only state in the United States who had a struggling economy...I would then say yes, maybe it is Jennifer's fault. But it's all over. Companies closing plants, struggling schools, budget cuts and layoffs.


Enough said.


The deep bull shit in this post also begins at the top. Michigan IS and HAS BEEN in recession for this decade. The Tier auto firms have been in recession since the late 1990s (or even earlier). That's why, on average, some 15 Tier firms (not just plants) have closed or reorganized every week nationally for years and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future throughout this decade.

But OTOH, the Dow Jones continues to set record highs once or more monthly lately. That is definitely NOT a sign of a national malaise concerning the economy which is booming most places other than the auto-related states of Ohio or Michigan.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1627
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 10:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"But OTOH, the Dow Jones continues to set record highs once or more monthly lately. That is definitely NOT a sign of a national malaise concerning the economy which is booming most places other than the auto-related states of Ohio or Michigan"

The Dow Jones is just an indicator of profits being pulled out of the businesses, not an indicator of overall economic health and stability. If these corporations don't start investing back into their companies and workforces everything is going to go south quickly once the tipping point is reached and there will be no quick fixes.
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Bratt
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Username: Bratt

Post Number: 448
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 12:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh yeah...you guys are right, the rest of the country is booming! NOT!!

It just so happens that Michigan's backbone is the auto industry. And because of the slumping economy, this industry was hit hard...very hard. And since all three auto companies are headquartered in Michigan, this has really affected our state.

These are rough times people. We can either sit and bitch all day over shit we cannot change, or we can keep our heads up, think positive, and pray for relief.
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 531
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I 've got my resume out there and the last few weeks I've gotten calls to interview for engineering jobs in two southern states. The only nibble I had around here was to work in a new market opening up in B-ham. I rationalized if I had to move, I wasn't moving someplace colder then MI like MN, WY or CO which I understand are also doing well. Oh well...I will still be tied to the area with a house that will never sell. so hopefully it will turn around sometime like it did in the mid 80s. Statements made by those that the employees are the ones at fault because they want basic needs like fair pay, and health care are caustic. Let's say every boss got his wish and he was able to only employ $6/ hr temps with no healthcare that could be fired when ever he felt like it. Great, right? Wrong, no $6 / hr temp is ever going to buy a new SUV or go the Dr regularly and need scrips, so the market shares and profits will continue to slide. High liability rates in Wayne Co? Blame the insurance co's that set the rates. Michigan's insurance providers for damn sure are not hurting right now.
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Udmphikapbob
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Username: Udmphikapbob

Post Number: 259
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so they need to cut costs because no new drugs are in the pipeline...and they close up the R&D facility? who exactly is going to R&D these new drugs to restore their cash flow?

watch for a couple of golden parachutes to get deployed in the near future...
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 843
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 1:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

UDM, I was thinking the same thing, sort of cutting off their nose to spite their face. They must be looking at breaking the company up over the long run and selling of the patents.
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 27
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 2:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

UDM, Pfizer's main research facility is in CT. They have invested billions in the Groton complex. The Ann Arbor facility was never the main research center. The Big Three Pfizer facilities are the HQ on the East Side of Manhattan, the former Pharmacia complex in suburban Jersey and the Connecticut research facility.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2213
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 2:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Groton has somewhere around 6000 employees in contrast to the 2100 in AA.
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Ray
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Username: Ray

Post Number: 832
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The national economy is doing great. The WSJ reports recently that hiring of new college grads is up 17% this year.

I don't blame the govenor. Our problem is we lack a culture of innovation, risk taking and entreprenuralism.

For example: read this:

"While this is a devastating blow to so many Michigan families, the state's economic plan and our 21st Century Jobs Fund are already at work positioning the state as a leader..."

You would never read this in Silicon Valley, where I sit at this moment. Labor mobility and volitility are par for the corse. Companies rise and crash daily and you move on, maybe having 10-20 jobs during your career. Flexible, nimble, fast. These are the characteristics of the winning 21st century labor pool.

This dreck above about "devestated families" makes me want to wretch. The Michigan model is the hapless individual, pawn of the big company who contols his fate, hoping for lifetime employment and the silver bullet, government backed BIG ANSWER to solve all our problems.

The answer is the self-reliant, highly versatile individual who never stops learning, never stops moving, never stops adapting.

We need a complete cultural revolution in Michigan. We are so far out of touch with what drives technology business formation it's like we live in a third-world country.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2227
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It isn't all bad in Metro Detroit for those with marketable skills. The following IT jobs outlook for SE MI is upbeat.
Dice: IT helps drive urgent economic retrenchment in Detroit

"According to local tech group, Automation Alley, tech jobs accounted for 15% of all jobs in Southeast Michigan and 25% of the payroll in 2004, and the numbers have likely risen since then, with growth in the advanced automotive, advanced manufacturing, chemical and material, IT, and especially the life sciences industries"
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Mthouston
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Username: Mthouston

Post Number: 681
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The answer is the self-reliant, highly versatile individual who never stops learning, never stops moving, never stops adapting.

We need a complete cultural revolution in Michigan. We are so far out of touch with what drives technology business formation it's like we live in a third-world country.



Well said Ray.
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Zephyrprocess
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Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 228
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

You would never read this in Silicon Valley


All of California is Silicon Valley?

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