 
321brian
Member
Username: 321brian
Post Number: 309
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 6:13 pm: |    |
My point on the schools was that they are black run.
If you don't want to blame the people who run the schools who do you want to blame? The state?
Education is an issue for every community. Like it or not the black community for whatever reason has not embraced education as a way to move up.
School can be whatever the student and his or her parents puts in to it.
Good schools don't come from legislation aimed at specific races. they come form the people who live in them.
The DPS closings are a good example. The people at the meetings care. The problem is that there are not a lot of people at the meetings.
Everyone with a kid in DPS should care. These meetings should be at The Joe. |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 12
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 6:23 pm: | |
People are leaving DPS to got to better "FUNDED" schools. How can a student learn if he can't take his text book home. Come on' are you telling me that that has NOTHING to do with legislation.
I will give you we don't care about education the way we should, but that doesn't change the fact that our schools are SEVERELY under funded and over populated. That is something that the CBC can fight to change.
And if you are telling me that a bunch of white legislator didn't get together to get prop 2 passed, I don't know if I can trust anything you say |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 486
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 6:38 pm: | |
"And if you are telling me that a bunch of white legislator didn't get together to get prop 2 passed, I don't know if I can trust anything you say"
our state legislators actually don't get a say in constitutional amendments in our state...they can't use their power to get them passed, nor can they prevent them from being implemented...same goes for our governor...
Prop 2 was an issue supported by a majority of Michigan voters...like it or not, our legislature doesn't get to vote on it and our governor is required to enforce it... |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 487
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 6:47 pm: | |
"However, they are no different than the Congressional Automotive Caucus, or the Congressional Kidney Caucus, Congressional Real Estate Caucus as well."
If you're saying that the CBC exists to represent the interests of the members of the caucus, then I would agree...
However, I was under the impression that it existed to represent the interests of predominantly black districts that voted those members into office or to represent the interests of black people in general...
If the voters of Stephen Cohen's district thought enough of him to represent their interests, and the CBC refuses to allow their elected representative to further represent their interests in the CBC, then all the CBC is doing is showing what a fraud it is and that it's really not as interested in representing and furthering the interests black people as it purports to be... |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 13
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 6:55 pm: | |
Thejesus
Comeon. Are you telling me that you believe that NO ONE in the state legislature had ANYTHING to do with passing of Prop 2. Either in it infancy or its passage. Obviously, they didn't pass the bill themselves, but if you believe they had nothing to do with it, well!!
And before we get off into Prop 2. Which has nothing to do with the thread by the way. People are going to always vote for what they believe is in "their" best interest. Having said that Prop 2 won't last because Black people would still be slaves if it was up to the majority of people in a state to vote on whether or not they wanted to keep slavery. White people would never have "voted" to free slaves. I know that you all believe that you are above that sort of thing now, and that you are humane and all of that, but ask yourselves if you could have someone wash you dishes, paint your house, and mow your lawns for FREE, would you vote to give that up,
I know I WOULDN'T |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 14
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 7:03 pm: | |
Thejesus
The Congressional Automotive Caucus works to promote the American Automobile industry and American Auto workers. Most notably, the CAC has worked to ensure that foreign manufacturers must comply with the same regulations that American manufacturers adhere to.
Meaning all caucus exists to represent the people that make up what the caucus was made up for. In this case Congressional Automotive Caucus works to promote the American Automobile industry. I don't see what is so wrong with that. And if there is something wrong with that, it has to be across the board. |
Rrl
Member
Username: Rrl
Post Number: 722
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 7:03 pm: | |
Uh, First Son, many white people died in a war that was based primarily on slavery issues.
What makes you think they wouldn't have simply voted for this had they had the opportunity, rather than put their own life in jeopardy? |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 15
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 7:10 pm: | |
Rrl
The MAJORITY OF white people didn't die in the CIVIL WAR. Some White people did.
Just like I am sure SOME white people voted against Prop 2.
That is not the discussion here. I am talking about enough to pass legislation. And some of those people were fighting to keep the Union together, not free the slaves.
HEY, before I get pegged as the angry Black guy on the forum, I want it to be know that I LOVE everyone, white and black. I just take offense with the idea that white people get offended with Black people get together to help out other black people.
The fact that some white people get upset over something that doesnt effect them is something that I can't believe. I is like there is a need to control everything. I mean look at the first post. It was done because they knew white people would be offended. the CBC has been around forever, obviously if you have never heard of them, that means that they aren't doing a good enough job, so just go on with you day and don't worry about it |
321brian
Member
Username: 321brian
Post Number: 310
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 7:23 pm: | |
Come on, Detroit schools are severely UNDER populated and Proposal A standardized the amount of money each district received to educate each student.
Detroit also has the highest tax rate in the area. Where is that money going?
DPs are not under funded they are mismanaged. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 488
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 7:33 pm: | |
"Prop 2 won't last because Black people would still be slaves if it was up to the majority of people in a state to vote on whether or not they wanted to keep slavery."
got it all figured out, do ya?
I could go on about why there is no legal basis whatsoever for invalidating Prop 2 and how the Pro-AA crowd already lost this battle 8 years ago in the federal court system, but you're right...this thread is about something else, so I won't |
Jelk
Member
Username: Jelk
Post Number: 4208
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 7:34 pm: | |
quote:If you are an English teacher or some sort of Government historian than by all means, do your thing brother, but if people spend more time looking and listening to the content than this would be a better world.
I am neither an English teacher nor a Government historian. Rather I am a committed and involved citizen. I did look and the content you wrote and based upon your words it is clear you have little understanding of our government's organization.
Too bad because all it takes for tyranny to triumph is an uninvolved and ignorant population.
Nice catch Nelir. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 489
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 7:44 pm: | |
Detroitsfirstson:
I think you are confused...I'M the one arguing uniformity in congressional caucuse...YOU'RE the one arguing that something different is supposed to exist for the CBC...
If the CBC truly exists to represent the interests of black people, just like the CAC exists to represent the interests of the auto industry, then not allowing the congressional representative of a predominantly black district to join the CBC simply because the representative that the district chose is not the right color does nothing to advance the interests of the black people of that district...ALLOWING him to join the CBC would be representing their interests...
Are you telling me that you believe a white representative of a predominantly black district will not represent the interests of his constituents as well as a black representative of a predominantly black district?
I think you are...think about what you're saying for a minute... |
Thecarl
Member
Username: Thecarl
Post Number: 1001
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 7:57 pm: | |
quote:Unfortunately in SE Mich we have a white population that tends to flee whenever anyone different moves into their neighborhood.
what a horrible generalization, jt1. i despise the inference that people will so readily move from a block, or city, just because they don't like their neighbors. the cutesy and bigoted term "white flight" trivializes what many folks went through when they had to say goodbye to their homes. in fact, many folks turn down career development, economic opportunity, more temperate landscapes, and more pleasing vistas, to stay in what they know as "home."
research has shown that death of a loved one, divorce, and moving, are the three most stressful things a person can experience. leaving an area rich in friends and family - and full of familiar institutions such as parks, playgrounds, schools, and places of worship - can be terribly challenging. i believe "white flight" less resembles "hey, let's move!," than "honey - we gotta' get our of here!"
i have family that moved from detroit because they were the only white family on the block, and neighbors began pelting their house with stones. and, how many other white families left because of repeated thefts? break-in's? and fear of what's next? whites were repeatedly compelled to leave detroit. this was not a matter of whimsy or arrogance. in most cases, it was a matter of survival. look at the city now. were people wrong?
i have a friend who lived in east-side detroit, and as he said, "everything nice [he] ever had growing up got stolen." he became bitter as a child, not really understanding the situation. the family finally left when his sister was robbed in front of the house.
i have another friend who bought the house he grew up in, and the house of his grandparents who had lived next door - six mile and livernois area. he was fixing up his grandparents house, in hopes of renting it out one day. his own home was broken into twice in a short period of time, and his wife insisted they should leave. he bought a dog to guard the property and ease her fears. not long after, their home was broken into again, the dvd player stolen, and the dog was "gone." she was pregnant at the time.
you can guess the outcome...white flight.
the fact that ossian sweet stayed in his home and shot at white, racist aggressors was noble. if a white person ever poked a gun out of the window and shot at an angry black mob outside - what would that be?
(Message edited by thecarl on January 24, 2007)
(Message edited by thecarl on January 24, 2007) |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 16
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 8:30 pm: | |
Thejesus
Are you telling me that you believe a white representative of a predominantly black district will not represent the interests of his constituents as well as a black representative of a predominantly black district?
I dont think I said that at all. If you can find a thread of me saying that, please let me know. My only argument is that people on this thread seem believe that the CBC shouldn't exist. I have a problem with that |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 17
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 8:40 pm: | |
Jelk
I am neither an English teacher nor a Government historian. Rather I am a committed and involved citizen. I did look and the content you wrote and based upon your words it is clear you have little understanding of our government's organization.
That is my point, the thread had nothing to do with our government's organization. It was used to draw a comparison. And it was a point that you with all of your sophistication, understood, so it worked but rather than discuss the validity of it, you chose to point out grammatical errors. That says something about you buddy |
Fmrdtwn
Member
Username: Fmrdtwn
Post Number: 8
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 11:19 pm: | |
SMDH I guess races other than blacks can have groups that look out for the interests of thier own eh...
Nice how society have treated us for the last 400 + years...
But then again I forgot. White men have been sooooooooooooo discriminated against in this country for forty whole yearz!
smmfh...
What a donkey.... seeing as you have been treated so bad, maybe you should have learned something and step away from the ingronance and intolerance but no you perpetuate it and carry it on and where is getting you or anyone for that matter? Just further divide! |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 3673
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 11:22 pm: | |
Thjank you Fmr....I see we think an awful lot alike... |
Walterwaves
Member
Username: Walterwaves
Post Number: 11
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 8:22 am: | |
"My only argument is that people on this thread seem believe that the CBC shouldn't exist. I have a problem with that"
I am firm believer that it should not exist, nor should 100 black men, nor should the nation of islam, nor should the kkk or the nazis for the simple fact that instead of looking out for everyone's advancement and everyone's interest regardless of color,religion,or ethnicity it only looks out for black people just as the other groups mentioned only look out for specific people.
That my friend is in itself, racist.
fyi: before you tell me I can not compare all the above, I beg to differ. Any "group" that forms with the specific plan of advancing one just because of the color of their skin, is racist no matter what their means of advancement whether political,religious or violent.
Its all the same hate rapped up with a pretty bow that has been allowed to fester under the guise of political correctness at either one time or another.
Oh and before you spit out some more drivel like well,,,,,, thats what republicans,democrats, independents do. Well its just not quite the same thing as arguing for one's advancement or lack thereof just because of what color they just might happen to be.
Welcome to America baby! Land of hope,liberty and equal opportunity hate all under one constitution of course that is just as long as your not a white person hating anyone because that would get your white ass tossed in jail.
Know what I mean sport? |
Jelk
Member
Username: Jelk
Post Number: 4210
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 11:21 am: | |
quote:It was used to draw a comparison.
Your comparison was incorrect. Congressional caucuses are nothing like Congressional committees. Obviously you don’t know what you are talking about. As for the spelling and grammar, you asked to be corrected if you were wrong. I did that, not only your factual mistakes but also mistakes relating to your writing ability. Your inability to communicate effectively speaks volumes about you, pal. |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 18
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 12:43 pm: | |
Walterwaves
I am firm believer that it should not exist, nor should 100 black men, nor should the nation of islam, nor should the kkk or the nazis for the simple fact that instead of looking out for everyone's advancement and everyone's interest regardless of color,religion,or ethnicity it only looks out for black people just as the other groups mentioned only look out for specific people.
Quick question, should women's advocacy group exists, or should gay rights have a forum, or what people that are Catholic. Is it just "race" that you have a problem with or is it all of the classes that we put on people. Like it or not, we are all different, celebrating our differences doesn't mean that we can live, work, and play together.
Saying I am Black and proud to be Black doesn't mean I think any less or more(for that matter) of you. It just means I am happy to be me and I want to help other people like me. The problem is people fear what they don't understand, if you don't understand me or what I do, you say I shouldn't do it. I say take the time to understand it for yourself before you judge.
Just a thought |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 19
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 1:00 pm: | |
Your comparison was incorrect. Congressional caucuses are nothing like Congressional committees. Obviously you don’t know what you are talking about. As for the spelling and grammar, you asked to be corrected if you were wrong. I did that, not only your factual mistakes but also mistakes relating to your writing ability. Your inability to communicate effectively speaks volumes about you, pal.
What makes it incorrect!!!! Because you said it was. If it was so incorrect, you would not have been able to understand what I was talking about. If you did it says that you understood, you just didn't like the format that it was used in. That is not right or wrong, that is choice.
And the only "difference" between Congressional Committees and Congressional Caucuses is the formal vs informal nature of the institutions. They both have the same agenda, get legislation passed that supports their cause. What is so DIFFERENT about that.
Also, do you stroll this forum looking for "everyone's" grammatical errors or just the ones referring to Black and White issues. What does that say about you, PAL? Does that "you asked to be corrected if you were wrong" or I can't make an argument, so I will point out grammatical errors on the Internet, hell the entire Internet is full of "grammatical" errors on Discussion Boards like this.
ps-you still have discussed the validity of my argument |
Walterwaves
Member
Username: Walterwaves
Post Number: 12
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 1:27 pm: | |
"you Said"
Quick question, should women's advocacy group exists, or should gay rights have a forum, or what people that are Catholic. Is it just "race" that you have a problem with or is it all of the classes that we put on people. Like it or not, we are all different, celebrating our differences doesn't mean that we can live, work, and play together.
Saying I am Black and proud to be Black doesn't mean I think any less or more(for that matter) of you. It just means I am happy to be me and I want to help other people like me. The problem is people fear what they don't understand, if you don't understand me or what I do, you say I shouldn't do it. I say take the time to understand it for yourself before you judge.
Just a thought
THE DIFFERENCE IS:
Kilpatrick is an elected official of "the people" not just for "the black people"
Now if Kilpatrick has an all white caucus also, then hell, Im for it. Do it for the reds,browns yellows and others also and then put all the ideas into one big pot to help out all, not just one.
But for our representitive to go out of their way and only address issues dealing with black folks only and not whites, yellows ,reds ,browns,etc also in a seperate setting to show that she is equal and for all the people makes her an actual phuquing racist.
How can you, as an elected official of the U.S. government go out of your way to seperate blacks from the rest of the population?
To answer your question on gays and women,,,yea they should have a platform. So should black folk,and so should everyone else but there is a time, and a place for it, but not by my fucking representitive whom I voted in. Not by my representitive who is supposed to be for "the people" not just "the black people" .
If you are voted into public office your duty is not to a specific people but to all the damn people.
This is my problem. It has nothing to do with the fact that black folks are trying to advance themselves but it has to do with the fact that a person I am supposed to be able to count on probably would not help me because I am not "her people" .
IMHO, its utter bullshit and the wench should be run out of town . |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 20
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 1:49 pm: | |
To answer your question on gays and women,,,yea they should have a platform. So should black folk,and so should everyone else but there is a time, and a place for it, but not by my fucking representitive whom I voted in. Not by my representitive who is supposed to be for "the people" not just "the black people" .
If you are voted into public office your duty is not to a specific people but to all the damn people.
This is my problem. It has nothing to do with the fact that black folks are trying to advance themselves but it has to do with the fact that a person I am supposed to be able to count on probably would not help me because I am not "her people" .
IMHO, its utter bullshit and the wench should be run out of town
So are you saying that the people in the Automotive Caucus that support the advancement of Domestic Auto, would not represent adequately you if you worked for Honda. It is an ORGANIZATION, it is not the only legislation that she is capable of passing. So to your argument, we should do away with all the Congressional caucuses because the representatives in them can't support something that is outside of the organization. What if a rep is in two caucuses, OMG, how would they manage. I mean sense the can only do one thing while in Congress, how can they support Autos, and Asians
you said
I am supposed to be able to count on probably would not help me because I am not "her people" .
That is the problem right there. Have you ever called her office, voiced a complaint, and not gotten a response. If not, than SHUT UP. You are making statements based on your lack of understanding, rather than you personal experiences.
I am also curious to know, who else you would consider a "wrench". I don't sense the same anger with respect to the Congressional Asian Caucuses |
Jelk
Member
Username: Jelk
Post Number: 4211
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 2:51 pm: | |
quote:What makes it incorrect!!!! Because you said it was.
No it's incorrect because Congressional Committees and caucuses are two different things. That is a fact the same way water is wet is a fact.
Committees are official bodies. Its members are appointed by Congressional leaders, members do not always share a common point of view (for instance the Senate Armed Services committee includes very liberal members like Ted Kennedy and very conservative members like Jeff Sessions). Committees have official powers to make recommendations on particular legislation, they have subpoena power, they have taxpayer funded budgets, they have investigative powers, and Committee membership is limited to a specific number of seats but open to all members of the body.
Congressional caucuses are informal clubs of like minded members of Congress and are usually organized around a particular interest or cause. Caucuses hold no official party. They do not hold hearings to vet legislation or investigate governmental matters. They don't have taxpayer funded staffs. They don't have subpoena power.
Comparing Congressional Committees to caucuses is like comparing a company's HR department to its employee softball team. |
Jelk
Member
Username: Jelk
Post Number: 4212
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 2:56 pm: | |
Oh and for the record I don't really care who the Congressional Black Caucus or any other caucus does or does not allow membership. They are essentially private clubs.
My only interest in this debate (aside from entertaining reading) is to correct Detroitsfirstson (sure hope number two comes out better) and his incorrect understanding of the organization of the United States Congress. As far the spelling and grammar, well I just like picking on dumbasses for fun and sport. |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 21
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 3:17 pm: | |
Comparing Congressional Committees to caucuses is like comparing a company's HR department to its employee softball team.
If you are trying to draw a comparison to the function, the point, the purpose of the HR department -vs- the employee softball team, than why is it not ok to do so. As you say, it goes without that they are not the SAME thing, I never said they were the SAME thing. Just because it is not the comparison you would use does not make it an invalid one. That is the problem with people like you, if something doesn't fit into the little small minded box that your brain has set up for it, than it has to be wrong.
And if DUMBASSES are as successful as I am, than long live the DUMBASS, jerk!!!!!
Furthermore, if that is your idea of fun, than send you wife over to my house because I am sure I can show her more "fun" than you can |
Walterwaves
Member
Username: Walterwaves
Post Number: 13
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 3:20 pm: | |
So are you saying that the people in the Automotive Caucus that support the advancement of Domestic Auto, would not represent adequately you if you worked for Honda. It is an ORGANIZATION, it is not the only legislation that she is capable of passing. So to your argument, we should do away with all the Congressional caucuses because the representatives in them can't support something that is outside of the organization. What if a rep is in two caucuses, OMG, how would they manage. I mean sense the can only do one thing while in Congress, how can they support Autos, and Asians
"Lets stick with the real argument here sport. It has to do with race, not damn autos. Do not turn our debate into a childish ridiculous game."
you said
I am supposed to be able to count on probably would not help me because I am not "her people" .
That is the problem right there. Have you ever called her office, voiced a complaint, and not gotten a response. If not, than SHUT UP. You are making statements based on your lack of understanding, rather than you personal experiences.
"again sport, the debate has to do with a elected political official catering to the needs of their constituants solely based on color which is what she and the the"black caucus" are doing" It has nothing to do with my personal experiences with the wench or lack thereof
I am also curious to know, who else you would consider a "wrench". I don't sense the same anger with respect to the Congressional Asian Caucuses
"One more time sport, this debate has to do with Kilpatrick and the black caucus.
But to answer your question, yes I feel the same way about any politician and/or group that feels a need to seperate from the rest of society, be it black, white asian or any other "American" or resident of the U.S. dammit.
And for the record, the word is "WENCH" not wrench, that is something you purchase at Wards or Sears.
(Message edited by walterwaves on January 25, 2007) |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8194
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 3:21 pm: | |
quote:Furthermore, if that is your idea of fun, than send you wife over to my house because I am sure I can show her more "fun" than you can
Rough translation: You won the argument and I have nothing left but wife comments. |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 22
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 3:30 pm: | |
Jt1
wait, so it okay for him to call me a dumbass but I can't talk about his wife. Something about that doesn't seem fair. Oh I forgot, FAIR is not a word you guys seem to understand |
Dds
Member
Username: Dds
Post Number: 109
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 3:39 pm: | |
Of, course it's fair. You can respond to his dumbass comment, but his wife can't respond to your proposal. Jelk kept his comments isolated to you. He brings up your mother, he's out of line. However, it appears the door is open now. Back to the flame! |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 23
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 3:42 pm: | |
"Lets stick with the real argument here sport. It has to do with race, not damn autos. Do not turn our debate into a childish ridiculous game."
No the argument is not about race. You people always want to make it about race. It is about you calling someone a out for being in an organization that is trying to uplift a group of people. If the group is trying to uplift Domestic Auto, than you don't have a problem with it. If it is trying to uplift Black people, than you do.
I have a problem with that.
Oh, and let's not bring up all of the grammatical errors that you have had in this dialogue:
I am supposed to be able to count on probably would not help me because I am not "her people"
Did you forget the "her" between on and probably. For the life of my I don't understand why guys live to show how smart you are.
Only empty trailer make noises going down the freeway. Remember that SPORT |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8196
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 3:46 pm: | |
Thecarl,
Your situations are not representative of the entire history and situation. It is something that happened after the bulk of the white flight, causing the situation.
The idiots mentioned in your post should have been charged with crimes including racial intimidation and I would agree that they should move. That however doesn't change the fact that when black people started moving into the neighborhoods the white people fled. It still happens in our backwoods region.
If there is no such thing as white flight explain these numbers:
1950-1970:
370,000 black people moved to Detroit
700,000 white people left Detroit.
The numbers are actually higher from 52-70 since the population, I believe, peaked in 1952. Sure must of been one major coincidence.
The treatment towards whites in all black neighborhoods is probably horrible in some situations, great in others and people are free to leave but it does not change the fact that white people emptied out of neighborhoods once black people started moving in during the 50s and 60s. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8197
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 3:50 pm: | |
Detroitsfirst - Have you ever spoken to her or asked her for any type of support.
You are projecting a lot on to her based upon this situation. How do you know that she only wants to help the black people in her district?
You are making a lot of assumptions.
(Message edited by jt1 on January 25, 2007) |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 24
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 3:50 pm: | |
Jt1-Dds
That is the funny thing about the written word. It can have the same words and be read totally different ways. All you got out of that is that I talked about is wife.
I don't expect you to feel my argument has substance, you don't come for the same background as I. I do however, expect you to read it and try to comprehend it. You can't take my words and experiences and try to make them fit in your world.
I believe the goal in a forum like this is discuss and understand. Attacking a post for grammatical errors in not trying to understand, it is trying to say I AM BETTER THAN YOU. And if that is what he calls fun, than I could really show his wife a good time. Give me her number and I will call her myself if that is what it takes to make you guys happy |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 27
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 3:53 pm: | |
Jt1
You are projecting a lot on to her based upon this situation. How do you know that she only wants to help the black people in her district?
Either I am reading this wrong, or even you made a typo on a post.(Oh my gosh, that can't be)
I never said she only wants to help the black people in her district. I am saying just the opposite. I am sure it was a typo, but Naw, it can't be. You guys don't make mistakes |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8198
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 3:54 pm: | |
quote:I don't expect you to feel my argument has substance, you don't come for the same background as I. I do however, expect you to read it and try to comprehend it. You can't take my words and experiences and try to make them fit in your world.
How so. I am not sure that many of us know about each other's backgrounds.
I agree that grammar/spelling police on boards like these are not needed. |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 28
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 4:00 pm: | |
Jt1
How so. I am not sure that many of us know about each other's backgrounds.
Like it or not guys, there are experience unique to race, just like there are experiences unique to gender, religion, and every other class.
I think trying sweep it under the rug and say that it doesn't exist is going to get us nowhere. Or say when you look at me, you don't just see a man, but you see a Black man. Talking about it(without unnecessary attacks) is the only way to overcome our differences. AND WE HAVE DIFFERENCES gents |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8199
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 4:00 pm: | |
Firstson - Yep, I misread your post. I read the par quoted by walterwaves as yours.
Using the quote function will make it much easier to avoid a quote of another forumer to look like you are stating it.
As for the smarmy comments. I certainly have never said I am perfect. I don't know where you are getting that from |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8200
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 4:03 pm: | |
quote:Jt1
How so. I am not sure that many of us know about each other's backgrounds.
Like it or not guys, there are experience unique to race, just like there are experiences unique to gender, religion, and every other class.
I think trying sweep it under the rug and say that it doesn't exist is going to get us nowhere. Or say when you look at me, you don't just see a man, but you see a Black man. Talking about it(without unnecessary attacks) is the only way to overcome our differences. AND WE HAVE DIFFERENCES gents
I agree and I have been the biggest proponent of acknowledging it. I was speaking about making assumptions about the backgrounds of others on this forum. Who knows, maybe our backgrounds are very similar. That was my point.
Acknowledging differences and obstacles that others have faced is extremely important but too many people in this region and country think that situations are the same for everyone and opportunities are the same for everyone. |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 29
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 4:04 pm: | |
Jt1
you taking sides with DUMBASS when I was just defending myself against an unneeded comment that you seem to agree with.
I am new to the forum(as you can see) please inform me as to how to use the quote function and I will do it from now on |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8201
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 4:07 pm: | |
backslash then the word quote with the quote encased in {} |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 2249
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 4:08 pm: | |
Who really cares what term is used to describe the process where people (including whites) left Detroit and metro Detroit during the post-WWII era? All but one of my many Dearborn cousins left the area--meaning SE MI entirely--in order to chase sensible employment, free from the auto sector, which they didn't care to have or be any part of. They moved, along with literally millions of others like them from the Rust Belt communities of the Northeast, to the South and West or wherever job were/are--for them, mostly to California. They routinely come back for family gatherings and do not regret in the least ever leaving their hometown, as they prefer stable employment as rewards for their college educations.
Most college grads or trained craftsmen can clearly do better elsewhere than metro Detroit both in getting and keeping jobs and in the level of pay. Possessing a lack of stupidity while seeking employment apparently is considered to be a vice only among the functionally illiterates or whatever residing in Detroit. Elsewhere, it's called common sense. |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 30
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 4:14 pm: | |
Jt1
Thanks
(Message edited by detroitsfirstson on January 25, 2007) |
Dds
Member
Username: Dds
Post Number: 110
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 4:16 pm: | |
Funny, in my only post in this thread (or anywhere on this forum) did I say I was white? |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 31
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 4:27 pm: | |
Quote:
Who knows, maybe our backgrounds are very similar. That was my point.
The fact that someone(not necessarily you) would disagree with the idea of a person(in this cases she happens to be Black) joining an organization (elected or not) that is for the upliftment of people that look or feel like her(not necessarily to the detriment of people that don't) let me know that we come from different backgrounds.
My next question is would you rather it be out in the open than behind closed doors. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8202
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 4:38 pm: | |
First - I would prefer all government be open but we know that will never happen.
Livernois - Spot on. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 490
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 4:57 pm: | |
I can't help but laugh at how people want to talk about "white flight" and knock white people who settled in the suburbs but have absolutely nothing to say about the large population of black people who fled from Detroit to Southfield to get away from all the bullsh*t too...
It's just like when you guys knock places like Livonia for causing Detroit to be in the condition it's in simply by existing, yet you have nothing to say about Southfield which has build office towers and sucks loads of white collar jobs out of Detroit...yet you'll knock a place like Troy without even batting an eye for the same reason...
are we seeing a pattern here? Your problem is not with the conduct of the people you are criticizing...rather, it's with their skin color... |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8203
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 5:11 pm: | |
My criticism has nothing to do with color and people can live where they want. The issues lies with the attitude of too many in the region that Detroit was heaven until 'those' people took over.
The fact is that the demise of Detroit came from many sources, one of which that played a major impact was the massive amount of flight, both people and economic. But many that fled do not acknowledge or even consider the fact that Detroit is in the shape it is in today due to their actions.
People of any color can leave for whatever reasons they choose (and black people have fled to more areas than Southfield) but they need to realize that while probably the best choice for them those actions have contributed to the demise of Detroit.
Blaming CAY and the black people for everything wrong with the city is an ignorant, simplistic argument used all too often around Michigan.
People knock places like Troy not due to flight from Detroit to Troy but because of the egotistical attitude of some people in Troy. Have you noticed that people only mock a few cities while cities like Southfield, St. Clair Shores, Dearborn, Ferndale etc. are spoken of in decent terms.
The ego of the populace brings a lot of the comments, not the color of the skin.
You are a prime example of why some of us have criticized the city of Livonia. Color has nothing to do with it, your attitude does. |
Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson
Post Number: 32
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 5:46 pm: | |
Thejesus
Quote:
are we seeing a pattern here? Your problem is not with the conduct of the people you are criticizing...rather, it's with their skin color...
I agree with you on that one jesus. I think the Black that left Detroit are as much if not more to blame than the Whites that left. If you don't care about your own house, how can you expect someone else to is my thought!!!!
I can't say that white flight or any other flight for that matter should be frowned upon. During that time in our history Detroit was a very "evil" (for lack of a better word) place to be.
The issue is now Detroit is becoming a vibrant place again and people are still leaving. It takes people to make a city. You can't have a GREAT city with 1 race and 1 class of people. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 491
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 9:50 am: | |
Jt1:
"Blaming CAY and the black people for everything wrong with the city is an ignorant, simplistic argument used all too often around Michigan."
Agreed. However, I'm talking about something else and I don't see what that comment has to do with anything...
"You are a prime example of why some of us have criticized the city of Livonia. Color has nothing to do with it, your attitude does."
Um, excuse me but all I've EVER done was DEFEND my city against unwarranted assaults by ignorant fools...you and your kind are the ones who affirmatively take shots at places like Livonia and blame them for your own problems...
I never knew this whole lame "let's blame Livonia for the problems of Detroit" mentality even existed until I started coming to this board and reading some of the garbage that's spewed here...
and I have to tell you, people with attitudes like your own are a prime example of why Detroit is in the horrid state that it's in and why many from the suburbs lack any desire to help out....I started reading and posting here because of my love for the city of Detroit and my desire to see it make strides, but man is it difficult to maintain a desire to help out when so many of the people of Detroit hold such an "us v. them" mentality of the suburbs and they believe that anything bad for the Suburbs is good for Detroit and vice versa...a recent example of this was when all those fools applauded when the news came out that the Monarch tower wasn't going to get built in Troy...all that reflected was the poor state of the Michigan economy, but these so-called 'Detroiters' have their heads so far up their own asses that they would rather the Michigan economy be in the shitter than see anything positive happen in the metro area if it isn't in Detroit... |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 492
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 10:00 am: | |
"But many that fled do not acknowledge or even consider the fact that Detroit is in the shape it is in today due to their actions."
I see...I suppose suburbanites are also to blame for the condition that RWANDA is in since they don't live there either... (rolls eyes) |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8211
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:57 am: | |
I will happily discuss in more detail later but here is a first pass.
quote:Um, excuse me but all I've EVER done was DEFEND my city against unwarranted assaults by ignorant fools...you and your kind are the ones who affirmatively take shots at places like Livonia and blame them for your own problems...
Let's see:
1. I need a gun to drive into Detroit.
2. Detroit needs Livonia, Livonia doesn't need Detroit.
3. Supporting withdraw from SMART.
I am not blaming Livonia or anywhere else for the problems of Detroit. Much of the blame falls on the 1MM plus that fled the city wherever they live. Livonia however is doing everything that seems to tear this region farther apart. The issues of SMART and Wal Mart are a prime example of how Livonia is perceived. It may not represent the majority but it is how Livonia is seen by many.
I would like more detail on how my attitude is to blame for the current state of the city. Is it the hours that I spend helping non-profits, is it the hours I spend cleaning up my neighborhood? Is it the countless number of people from the suburbs that spend time with me and at my home? Is it the seemingly thousands of times I have given people directions? Is it the times I have helped stranded motorists?
quote:...all that reflected was the poor state of the Michigan economy, but these so-called 'Detroiters' have their heads so far up their own asses that they would rather the Michigan economy be in the shitter than see anything positive happen in the metro area if it isn't in Detroit...
I am all for anything positive happening in this state. You can infer what you want from what I post. The truth of the matter is that I don't blame Livonia or any other city for that matter for Detroit's demise. But many people in Livonia and every other city have no right to complain about the state of the city without acknowledging that the blame is just as much on the shoulders of the 1MM+ that fled.
As for Livonia - It is clear that Livonia is one of the suburbs that sees things in a vacuum and does not consider the effects of working together as a region. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8212
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 12:02 pm: | |
quote:"But many that fled do not acknowledge or even consider the fact that Detroit is in the shape it is in today due to their actions."
I see...I suppose suburbanites are also to blame for the condition that RWANDA is in since they don't live there either... (rolls eyes)
My god you are fucking ignorant. If you don't see how population flight has had a major effect on the state of the city today you are not worth wasting the time on.
I am not saying that Detroiters don't need to step up and take control of their situation and the city but I would also expect you to realize the devastation that is left to deal with when more than 1MM people leave taking their tax base and economic support out of the city.
I really hope that you learn some critical thinking skills at Wayne State. I just hope that happens before you accidentally shoot yourself because you have to carry a gun into big, bad Detroit. |
Ohudson
Member
Username: Ohudson
Post Number: 174
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 12:30 pm: | |
What, did suburbanites flee Rwanda too? How does that apply? If they did that hell yes, blame them for that too! :-)
(Message edited by OHudson on January 26, 2007) |
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