  Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3912 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070120/BUS INESS04/701200392 What is your opinion on this? Marcel Breuer was a very important architect I lifted this quote out of the article that really made a point: “As Hartman says, most new buildings in the Grosse Pointes get stitched together from architectural odds and ends -- a gable here, a cornice there -- in a sort of fake historical style. Commercial districts in parts of the Pointes now border on kitschy.” | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3913 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here are some pics of Breuer’s work; http://flickr.com/search/?q=ma rcel+breuer So what are they going to do, erect some Dominick Tringali bullshit design? | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 352 Registered: 12-2006 |
Everyone, trust me here. IT IS NOT WORTH SAVING! I know, I work there. There is one wall in that building that is internationally renowned for the art on it, but that will be saved. The rest is worthless. The boiler in there makes it feel like an oven, and I was told that it wouldn't be replaced. Plus, there really is not enough display room for books and AV stuff. You can't use the second floor for anything. It houses Tech Services and administrative things. And the area where it doesn't extend wouldn't support a floor above the empty space. Plus, even getting the project off of the ground is a problem. There just isn't the money to do it yet. It will be at least 2 years before demolition would start on the current building. So if you like the building, it will be there for a little bit longer. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 353 Registered: 12-2006 |
The plan is for 3 stories and underground parking. Can't tell you much after that. Check the Grosse Pointe News for the specifics. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1257 Registered: 12-2004 |
A modernist? Ohh, let's tear it down, quickly! | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3476 Registered: 08-2004 |
I assume this is that building on the corner of Kercheval and Fisher Rd. (although John Gallagher didn't mention it in his article). I've driven by that building a hundred times. Hmmmm maybe next I'll have to make a concerted effort to study it, since it's not by any means an "eye catcher". And I don't recall ever hearing the name of that architect, although I guess me must be famous, or Mr. Gallagher wouldn't have said he was. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 354 Registered: 12-2006 |
I happened to talk with a bunch of people who are on the committee, so I know it won't be for a while, unfortunately. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 643 Registered: 08-2006 |
It doesn't seem like a great building but I like the lettering next to the front door. I'm not really a fan of old stuff getting torn down especially in Grosse Pointe. I guess I'd have to see the new building and see what I thought. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2346 Registered: 02-2005 |
It's one of the more ugly buildings I'm attached too. I don't like modernism, but that library is someplace that I am so used to, having spent 10 years of school (elementary and high) within a block of it. | ||
Pmardo Member Username: Pmardo Post Number: 44 Registered: 03-2006 |
I can't say that I ever warmed up the the building growing up in the Pointes. In fact, I can't say I even like the building. Another example of severe architecture that takes into account self-indulgent design aesthetics of the designer over the human experience that library patrons have to tolerate. I'll be excited to see the new design renderings. At the same time, the newest library in the Pointes (the Park branch near East Jefferson and...Maryland(?)) isn't anything to rave about either. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2057 Registered: 07-2004 |
I am a fan of midcentury architecture.With that in the open I find it disturbing that scs100 and the nice lady from the library board is so dismissive of this particular bldg. The fellow named Hartman is right on when he describes this as architectural illiteracy. There is much to preserve in midcentury architecture.And it it more than a little ironic that we are all giddy over the restoration of the Book-Cad and the glory of the Guardian; yet we seem eager to do the same to midecentury architecture that we did with those old bldgs_ cover them up or get rid of em. Build another library.Show some good taste and preserve for some other use this bldg; it deserves it. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3477 Registered: 08-2004 |
Unfortunately, as is often the case in the Grosse Pointes... there's little other room to build, unless they put it where that small park is next to the Punch and Judy Building. One recent library addition that I really like is the one at the corner of Vernier and Mack. Love the stonework and nice roof. Looks almost Elizabethan (late 16th century) in its' style. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 137 Registered: 07-2005 |
Does anybody know what ever happened with the lakefront house a lady was going to donate if the property was used to build a library? I remember reading about that a few years ago, then it kind of went away. That would be a perfect solution to read a book while looking out at the lake. It would also save the current building. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3915 Registered: 10-2003 |
I dunno about the design of the Woods Branch. I tried to like it but I jut can't. It simply doesn’t look right for some reason. It seems like it is a half-assed version of a 1920’s Tudor with a bunch of Oakland Township mixed into it. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3480 Registered: 08-2004 |
LOL... Patrick, although I do like it, I can agree with all your comments. It just doesn't quite match the older (modern) portions of the buildings. It's almost like they took a modern building and added an old addition... the opposite of what you would expect.  | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3916 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here is probably one of the only architects in North America today that “gets” traditional English architecture without messing it up. His name is Paul Gordon out of Toronto. Take a look at his traditional urban house. That’s the way a house should look. Here are the traditional architects of the world that know their stuff. There may be a handful of others. Christopher Smallwood Paul Gordon Julian Bicknell Craig Hamilton Quinlan terry Jeffrey W. Smith Robert A.M. Stern | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1260 Registered: 12-2004 |
Kind of neat to see traditional architects still exist. It does seem, however, that something has been lost on the translation. Maybe its all that elaborate cornice work that doesn't seem to appear on modern variations of traditional styled buildings. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1900 Registered: 11-2004 |
As someone raised in Grosse Pointe, I've been watching this unfold and find this to be an interesting discussion on a couple levels. First of all, this is the only building in Michigan designed by Marcel Breuer, an acknowledged 20th century master. It's an important work by any standard, whatever issues someone with a more traditional aesthetic might express. The involvement of Breuer was brokered and championed by W. Hawkins Ferry, a Grosse Pointer and forum hero best known on here for his book "The Buildings of Detroit." Ferry was also a major donor to the arts - his private modern art collection formed a significant portion of the DIA's modern collection when it was donated - and he was a big part of the "Art in the Stations" project for the Detroit People Mover (the Pewabic installation in the Times Square Station is dedicated to his memory). The library also houses an original mobile by Alexander Calder commissioned explicitly for the library. http://www.gp.lib.mi.us/inform ation/about/calder.html Of course the problem now is that the library needs better space (and a quick visit there - which I really encourage - will show that it is indeed maxed out) and the building itself is certainly in need of "refreshing," (although I think that if this were a work by Frank Lloyd Wright or Mies van der Rohe there would be no question as to the merit of restoring the building). Of course the biggest issue is the Grosse Pointe disdain for anything that is not neo-traditional in design. At the time this was built, 1953, there was great interest in modern design all over metro Detroit. The few houses built in a truly modern style in GP were all built around this time (including Ferry's International-style villa on the lake in GP Shores). Obviously that time has ended in GP, due largely to the strange, almost pathological, desire on the part of many residents to live in a 100 year old aesthetic/fantasy (I'm exaggerating only slightly). Be that as it may, an educated population would certainly acknowledge that the building has historical importance for GP and should be saved. If there were updates made to that building and the interior spaces were not so cramped with the functional needs of the library, I think more people would see the beauty in the space and the building. An addition to the building that housed the bulk of the functional aspects and a freed up main building "reading room," children's library and public space would be absolutely sensational. Alternately, an architectural firm could have some of the greatest office space in the area. The point is, there are definitely ways to maintain this heritage without creating a freakshow like the new Woods branch. Grosse Pointers could make an impressive move here. As an aside and as many of you know, a similar debate rages in Troy over the studio space of Minoru Yamasaki at Big Beaver and 75, which is slated to be demolished for the creation of a tower next to the Marriott. The big difference there is that the building is privately held and the push to demolish comes from economic factors, not because people think it is an ugly building. Recognition for the value of these buildings is the same kind of fight preservationists were fighting in the '60's when places like Penn Station in Manhattan were torn down for the sake of "progress" (or as a nod to Gistok, when the Fisher Theater's original Mayan decor was scrapped in favor of the current Valley of the Dolls glam. Which of course, I love, but still, bad idea). | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3481 Registered: 08-2004 |
It's too bad that they can't do an underground addition, where parking is retained and most expansion is below street level. That way the building could retain its' character, and still be the library entrance. | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 183 Registered: 03-2006 |
Thanks for the interesting post Dial. I had actually just studied Calder in a class here at CMU and had no idea that that mobile, which I've seen in slides, was here in michigan. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4206 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think if we just explain to Grosse Pointe that if the library is demolished Hickey's will be as well, things will just work themselves out. Thank God for kelly green trousers with little blue whales stitched onto them. | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 432 Registered: 06-2005 |
Gistok, that's exactly what Gunnar Birkerts did when he designed the addition to the Law Library at U of M in 1974. I believe he won an AIA award that year for his project. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2351 Registered: 02-2005 |
Dialh, I agree that the unclassifiable modern piece of shit that is the GP Woods library should not be duplicated for the new central branch, nor should the bland, sprawlville-looking new GP Park branch be duplicated. Now, as you correctly pointed out, the south-of-Moross section of GP has a "disdain for anything that is not neo-traditional in design." First off, I'd say this is mostly justified considering that 80 per cent of the homes in these areas are brick-built, pre-depression and almost all feature traditional designs. There's nothing wrong with contrast, and that's actually why I'm okay with the current central branch. So yes, this is a risky endeavour...the new design, in its attempt to be traditional, could blow up in our face, and it may feature some horrible materials. I will not act surprised if it does. The best bet is to guarantee that good materials are used, that the design is sufficiently urban (i.e. let's bring the building right up to the sidewalks), and that they avoid quirks and various other bastardizations in the design (see the quirky, bastardized renovation of the Jacobson's building down the road for an example). Personally I think that the Ford School at UM, my go-to example for how to pull off GOOD neo-traditional architecture in modern times, should be a model. Ten bucks says that Monahan construction co. gets the job and the new library looks like all the recently built banks on Kercheval. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2352 Registered: 02-2005 |
Jelk, that could not be more true. | ||
Farrer Member Username: Farrer Post Number: 591 Registered: 12-2003 |
St. Francis de Salles Catholic church in Norton Shores (Muskegon) is a Breuer, I believe circa 1966, and this poster much admires it. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 356 Registered: 12-2006 |
That mobile will be saved, that much I can probably assure you. (Unless something unforeseen comes up.) I don't hate the building, CL, but it just isn't practical enough. They need a second story over the atrium and that building won't support it. It's just the way it is. | ||
Esp Member Username: Esp Post Number: 17 Registered: 09-2005 |
I say tear it down and have Frank Gehry build a library there really shake up the Pointes! | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1901 Registered: 11-2004 |
Farrer, that's interesting. I didn't know that. I guess you can't believe everything you hear at the bar. Marcel Breuer's work is somewhat under attack all over the country. I know there is one forumer who is quite knowledgeable about one of his buildings in ... Cleveland? Pittsburgh? I can't remember ... that is threatened. And Ikea, of all companies, demolished a portion of the Pirelli Building in New Haven, Conn, for parking (sure). They initially were going to demolish the entire building. There is a picture of the altered building here: http://flickr.com/photos/grape juicegirl/256921347/ and a story here: http://www.architectureweek.com/2002/1113/news_1-1.html (it used to have a low long building and then the higher podium over one end of it.) Good article about this and other modernist giants in the January issue of wallpaper* magazine. The kicker, scs100 is that altering the building isn't the answer, but rather doing something in addition to it to provide extra space. Reference the DIA - original building preserved, contemporary addition built at a setback. I told some friends in SF about this and their heads were spinning. There is a reason the midwest is considered flyover country and a cultural wasteland! (Message edited by dialh4hipster on January 24, 2007) | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 719 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yeah, right, because no significant buildings ever get razed on the coasts... Whatever. For the un-initiated, here's the building.  I love great architecture, but frankly, I find this building a little under-whelming. I've probably been inside this library at least two dozen times and have never been inspired, or driven to look deeply at its composition, contemplate its design, or designer for that matter. It seems simply utilitarian to me, which I suppose, is exactly what mid-century architecture was all about. I don't think I'll shed too many tears. (Message edited by rrl on January 24, 2007) | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1508 Registered: 11-2003 |
A building of beauty? No, but will it be "razed"? No again. Some drastic changes? A third floor addition? Possibly-Probably, but not leveled to the ground. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 357 Registered: 12-2006 |
The building won't support expansion at all, up or sideways. If they had built it differently, then it might be a different story. And they can't do what they did at the DIA because of that and the lack of land. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3484 Registered: 08-2004 |
Dialh4hipster, ask your SF friends if they've ever heard of the San Francisco Fox Theatre? It was the largest theatre on the west coast and was the most palatial movie palace ever constructed... and was razed in 1963: http://www.atos.org/Pages/Jour nal/Fox-SF-organ/Fox-SF-organ. html That should humble them... | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1510 Registered: 11-2003 |
It looks like Scs100 is right on the money. The current building will go down! Today's GP News says they already have 1.8 million tucked away another 5 million in the capital account, with about 7 Million left to be raised by a "taxpayer-approved bond issue planned for the November ballot". Add it all up, and Scs gets to work in a new facility. The Library Board president is also quoted as saying that the current library was not "one of his {Breuer's} better designs". | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 360 Registered: 12-2006 |
Unfortunately for me, by the time they start demo, I'll be working somewhere else! If they do start in time, I get to go to Ewald or Woods. (Nice long trek from my house). | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1902 Registered: 11-2004 |
Which is a little like saying "that's not one of Jackson Pollack's better works." It may be a lesser work, but judging from the example at Mack and Vernier, what the Library Board thinks is a "better design" seems a little off. Just my opinion, but this is a really good example of why I couldn't wait to get the hell out of there when I turned 18. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 362 Registered: 12-2006 |
I am echoing your thoughts right now. I want out of this city really badly. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 711 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Ten bucks says that Monahan construction co. gets the job and the new library looks like all the recently built banks on Kercheval." ______________________________ __________________ The smart money gives you good odds | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1512 Registered: 11-2003 |
That assumes that the bond issue on the November ballot passes the scrutiny of the taxpayers. Not much interest in taxes and bond issues in GP at this time. | ||
Mcwalbucksnfitch Member Username: Mcwalbucksnfitch Post Number: 34 Registered: 10-2006 |
I am anticipating a move to GP Shores within the next few months...this is kind of interesting | ||
Prokopowicz Member Username: Prokopowicz Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2005 |
I grew up in GP and now live in Oak Park, IL, home of Frank Lloyd Wright. Oak Park just replaced its mid-century library, by Holabird and Root, with building that looks like a dot-com headquarters backed by big venture capital. The librarians pushed hard for it because they deemed the existing library unworkable. The real irony is that Oak Park is a ferocious protector any privately-owned building with even moderate architectural character. But when it comes to municipal buildings, practicality reigns. I feel bad that GP is doing this. |
