  Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 107 Registered: 11-2006 |
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070124/S PORTS02/701240344/1004/SPORTS They long for the good old days when they had FB and even played ND at Tiger Stadium. This sounds like non-scholarship ball which would be low budget with a small 'stadium'. My guess the 'stadium' would be those (nice) aluminum bleachers one sees here and there. The quoted 'capacity' would be 3 - 4,000. | ||
Professorjackson Member Username: Professorjackson Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2006 |
As an alumnus, I wholeheartedly support this possible move, along with the other upgrades to U of D athletics discussed in that article. And I continue to encourage Detroiters to come to Calihan Hall and cheer on the only division one basketball program in the city, especially this weekend with nationally ranked Butler coming to town (but don't overlook the game on Thursday night against Wisconsin-Milwaukee). | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2230 Registered: 10-2004 |
Marquette U--the largest Catholic and Jesuit college--gave up football the year (1960) before I attended there. The costs for football for a rather wealthy college were just too much for them to bear. The starting FB's dad was a very close friend of my dad, so we got free tickets to MU games played at a rather small stadium (the same place where my MUHS football team played). The attendance was low. I'd expect the same for the UoD today--a battered version of what it once was. Back then, our "sandlot" scruffy amateur FB team (engineering students at MU) would often play tackle football without pads and helmets (more like rugby in that respect) there on Sundays in the fall instead of watching our dear Pack play during the Lombardy days if we could find a team to play with. | ||
65memories Member Username: 65memories Post Number: 330 Registered: 10-2003 |
As a 7 yr. old in 1953, the first football game my Dad ever took me to was a University of Detroit game, played at the now long-gone U of D stadium. I can still remember seeing the red and white uniforms, cheerleaders, etc. and sitting there with my Dad, I thought I was at some big sporting event. I held on to the program for years. Wish I still had it. Wish U of D had never let football go. | ||
Professorjackson Member Username: Professorjackson Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2006 |
This would not be the bigger time football U of D tried (quite successfully at times -- undefeated in the 1928 season, I believe) to play back in the old days. This would be non-scholarship Division I-AA -- essentially the same as division III but for schools that play division I in other sports. As the article says, it would bring a hundred guys to UDM who probably would not attend otherwise. I would raise our profile slightly in the fall. It would be played at a multiple use facility on campus (soccer, track) that should be built anyway. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 104 Registered: 12-2006 |
You can't compete in I-A football anymore without a huge budget and a boatload of womens' sports since the scholarships have to even out. If a I-AA football program can be run on a reasonable budget, I say what the heck. It'd be fun to see it, and UDM needs the proposed facility for other reasons. Of course that wasn't the focus of Mr. Foster's article; the focus was on how do they get the crowds back to Calihan for basketball games. I read an article by a sportswriter once and he said Calihan is the best place in Michigan to watch a basketball game. Of course, the drawback is Calihan is in northwest Detroit, and nowadays there are a lot of people who won't go anywhere in the neighborhoods of Detroit, sadly. Also, as the article pointed out, you can watch all the college basketball you want on television nowadays. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 108 Registered: 11-2006 |
what might not be bad is that UDM and WSU could play an annual FB game. It might develop into some type of rivalry. Also, if WSU could grow their FB and go D-I they could play an annual game vs. a MAC team which might be interesting. | ||
Professorjackson Member Username: Professorjackson Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2006 |
Getting people to come to Titan games has been an issue since I began my affiliation with the university back in 1987. When they played bigger names they drew better, and they even tried Cobo Arena (a huge error in my estimation). Nobody knows the answer. Four straight 20 win seasons didn't do it. Winning games in the NCAA tournament and making the final four of the NIT didn't do it. I blame TV too, but that doesn't help solve the problem. Also, the quote from Tim McCormick in that article really irked me where he questioned the quality of the "product" UDM basketball puts on the floor. First, it's a team and a game, not a product. I hate that language. Secondly and more importantly the quality is there in Calihan, unless you think seeing kids who are probably among the top 1% of basketball players in North America play in a great historic arena is not quality. | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 217 Registered: 01-2004 |
I feel pain that many of the U of D alumni have. I did my undergraduate at DePaul University in Chicago, which has not had football since the 1940s. University lore has it that the Blue Demon name originates from their football team that was apparently very successful and a big draw in the 20s, 30s and 40s playing the powerhouses ND, Nwestern, Michigan at their home field; Wrigley Field (well, it was the cubs and bears, but sine they were in the neighborhood, they let DePaul use it). Generations of Blue Demons have longed for football to return as an activity on Saturday before basketball season starts…..and many of us see hope in the D-1AA….Georgetown did it and I believe Old Dominion is starting theirs in 2009…..Even though Lincoln Park is a bit cramped and densely populated for a practice felid, Wrigley is still going strong and god knows the Cubs are greedy for money. Only hope…….but maybe some day (Message edited by tkelly1986 on January 24, 2007) (Message edited by tkelly1986 on January 24, 2007) | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 105 Registered: 12-2006 |
The quality of the product isn't the biggest problem. By the way I don't object to the word "product"; they're trying to get people to spend money to attend an event, that's a product. The problem is the location. Somebody in Macomb Township or Novi isn't likely to drive to Six and Livernois to watch a game. Downtown is different; it has a different vibe and pro sports have more fans in a big city anyhow. So my question is: can anything be done to make that part of the city a more desirable location such that people would be willing to drive there to watch a game? | ||
Reetz12 Member Username: Reetz12 Post Number: 126 Registered: 09-2005 |
I would have to say that if Watson doesn't step it up, I don't think he would be AD let alone bball coach in the future. He needs to get back in the recruiting war and show that he still has it. Bring some of the states best to the University and with city of Detroit rebuilding, they could package in the whole region to bring student/athletes in from out of state.I was at the UD/EMU game and thought that I was watching a mens rec league game. For both of those teams being Div 1 it was kind of embarassing. On the positive note the university is getting a new field (field turf) for the soccer team and lacrosse which will be added next year. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 307 Registered: 10-2006 |
2006 UDM Alumnus here. My opinion is that it isn't right to have a football team at this time. If we can't keep our basketball team hardly afloat, then football seems an even further stretch. When the goal posts were ripped put of the football stadium and used to block the lanes of traffic on Livernois and the Lodge, that was the end of UDM football. With no funds and no location for a field it is highly unlikely. Sure I would have loved to have had a football team for which to cheer when I went to school there, but that wasn't the case. basketball is a very close second and we now have campus events centered around that season as any college and its football team would have. It isn't perfect, but it works and it is now UDM, not football. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 109 Registered: 11-2006 |
Great comments. Professor Scott's comment is most interesting about folks not wanting to drive to 6 and Livernois, but will go d'town. Curious if going to W.Warren and the Lodge (WSU) would be like going to 6 and Livernois???? Do they really care where the games are? I was in Detroit a few years ago and watched a number of D-1 hoop games one weekend. One was @ EMU and the other was WMU @ UDM. I do believe Perry Watson needs to be able to recruit a NCAA tourney team or his program will continue to languish. Folks don't like losing programs (EMU attendance is worst then the attendance listed for UDM in the Detnews article). | ||
Professorjackson Member Username: Professorjackson Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2006 |
While U of D and EMU are not having the greatest of years, what exactly made it look like a rec league game? If it was attendance, I can see that. Was it poor play? There's always some poor play in college basketball. Last night Indiana and Illinois were tied 23 at the half. Are they rec league? I do take your point about PW --- there's been a lot of talk lately that he may be losing his passion. I don't know if that's true or not, and he never was a rah-rah kind of guy. I don't think this year's team is all that less talented than his tournament teams, so I'm not sure why they are 6-12. Here is the UDM messageboard: http://www.detroittitanhoops.c om/index2.htm | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 448 Registered: 01-2006 |
Every D1 basketball team in the state of Michigan has been to the NCAA tournament since the last time UM made it (EMU, UD, MSU, CMU, WMU, OU). If anyone needs to improve their basketball program, I'm going to go with the University of Michigan. There is no excuse to go this long without being in the tournament...scholarship loss or not. | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 231 Registered: 08-2006 |
quote: More proof of how a football program would undermine UDM hoops! | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 449 Registered: 01-2006 |
"More proof of how a football program would undermine UDM hoops!" Then how do we explain MSU? Basketball is always near the top regardless of the football program.  | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 106 Registered: 12-2006 |
The performance of the basketball team is not related to the existence or nonexistence of a football program IMHO. Watson's biggest problem in recruiting is that 18 year olds want to see themselves on TV, and since Horizon is a mid-major, most games aren't televised. Also, NBA scouts do not spend a lot of time watching the mid-majors (not that they completely ignore them). Interestingly, mid-major teams do reasonably well at tournament time - not winning the championship, but making a good showing of it - and this is partly because the big-school leagues lose so many sophomores and juniors to brief but lucrative NBA careers. As far as football, I say, go for it! | ||
Umstucoach Member Username: Umstucoach Post Number: 121 Registered: 04-2006 |
Ok, back to the topic at hand I currently attend a small, Catholic urban University (Duquesne in Pittsburgh) for graduate school. Being used to large University with a football program, it was interesting to say the least to witness a D-1AA non-scholly football program. The play wasn't as fast or as crisp, but it was enjoyable and it was something to do, on campus, during the fall. If attendance is key for the football program to stay afloat, I doubt it would succeed. You will not get more than 2-3,000 for a game, honestly. It really depends on how committed the school is to football, especially early on. If they can get through the first few years and costs stabilize, then it can succeed. But they have to really forecast costs for years in advance for it to survive. Calihan Hall is the best venue to watch a basketball game in the state of Michigan, better than the Palace, Crisler, and Breslin in my opinion (this does not factor things like bathrooms and food and the like, just pure basketball viewing experience). The lower rows of bucket seating is at the best level for a game, close to the action, but high enough to see the floor. If not coming to the game is because of the location, YOU ARE <5 MINUTES FROM THE LODGE, I-96, 8 MILE, AND THE SOUTHFIELD, DON'T GIVE ME THAT CRAP. It is a shame the Titans are not doing as well as they were back when my brother was a student at UDM. It was real fun to go and watch those teams of the late '90s. I hope they return to those days. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2234 Registered: 10-2004 |
Here's an account of the fearsome MU football club sport: A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY FOOTBALL CLUB In 1964 a new brand of college was born when New York University played the City College of New York in the first organized Club Football game. The National Collegiate Football Association was later established to be the overseer of this new brand of football. Over the years upwards of 97 different colleges and universities were NCFA members, with an estimated 40,000 players having participated. In 1965 a group of "agitators" formed to bring football back to Marquette, and in 1967 the Marquette University Football Club was born. Classified as a student organization and coached by volunteers, the Football Club was allotted $10,000 by the university and played its first game at the old Marquette Stadium before a crowd of 9,340 against the University of Detroit Football Club -- a 22-6 loss. The losing ways would continue for seven years: the club wouldn't wins its first game until the opening of the 1974 season when it defeated a team of local high school all-stars coached by former Green Bay Packer defensive end Lionel Aldridge. The club would not even have its first winning season until 1989 when it finished 4-3. Over the years the club's reputation and very existence at Marquette has been tenuous. During the 1974 season the team traveled out east to play Westchester College in New York. However, the club's treasurer spent the money raised for traveling expenses on equipment and then left school after that semester, leaving an unpaid airfare bill of $4,600. The university paid the bill, but was then intent on terminating the club. It was only an appeal to (then) MU Athletic Director Al McGuire that could save the club. The years following were still difficult. As a result of the 1974 debacle the university would no longer offer funding for the club (although MU Student Government stepped in with financial support). Marquette Stadium had been torn down and the club had to be content with playing games in local parks and high school fields. Nonetheless, it was during this time that the club benefited from the tutelage and efforts of an individual who (arguably) has done more for the club in its 35-year history than anyone else. It was in 1977 that a Marquette graduate student named Charlie Potts took over as Head Coach of the MU Football Club. His tenure lasted through 1985, and although he never had a winning season (his best years were back-to-back 4-4 seasons in 1982 and 1983) he is nonetheless the club's most successful coach. That assertion is warranted because "success" for a club sport cannot simply be measured in terms of wins versus losses. It was Coach Potts' tireless devotion and contribution to the club on all levels -- coaching, recruiting, fundraising, promotion, and that indefinable thing called "leadership" -- that has earned him a place of honor in the club's history. After Coach Potts finished his graduate studies and left Marquette the club continued, and even enjoyed two winning seasons in 1989 and 1993. Even better, the club was able to play its games on its own "home field" when the university opened the Valley Fields facility in 1994. nonetheless, the club's reputation and existence remained tenuous, and another crisis erupted during the 1997 season. For many years Marquette has had the following arrangement with the Milwaukee Institute of Art & Design: students enrolled at MU can take art classes at MIAD, and students at MIAD can take academic courses at MU. As a result of this arrangement students at MIAD are eligible to participate in intramural and club sports at MU. However, entrance and enrollment requirements at MIAD are not the same as they are at MU, and thus the 1996 club team consisted mainly of "ringers" who had registered for classes at MIAD (which they made no sincere effort to even attend) but were really only on hand to play football. When the administration at MU caught wind of this the club was suspended for the remainder of the season and indefinitely. Fortunately, the club was reinstated the following season, and it is in this phase of the club's existence that we now find ourselves. The NCFA has long since ceased to exist, and nearly all the colleges and universities that were once its members have given up football as a club sport. Marquette remains one of only a handful of schools in the U.S. that continue to do so, and at 35-years MU's club is the oldest currently in existence. What does the future hold for the Marquette University Football Club? Only time will tell. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 308 Registered: 10-2006 |
UDM football: -location -a football stadium won’t fit on the schools existing campus. We know there once was one at McNichols and Fairfield, and a football field would fit there, but not much more surrounding it - if it is off campus (be it for ‘convenience’ or site issues) then it ceases to be a campus event/team lacking student involvement -alumni donations - likely to a lot of alumni getting your name on a new football stadium would seem like the best donation of all, but if alumni are going to donate to their alma mater, a ‘football club’ is probably not the best format. There are a lot of programs that can use the money as well as general capital improvements to the campus. No one wants to donate money to the school to have their name on a toilet, but that money has to come from somewhere. -priorities - not ever university chooses to put its money into athletics; UDM chooses to concentrate and support academics over many athletic programs - a majority of incoming students choose a school because it has a great academic program, not a great football team or athletic facilities | ||
Gary Member Username: Gary Post Number: 200 Registered: 02-2004 |
Interesting thread. I grew up less than 3 blocks from the U-D campus and I remember those Friday night games at the stadium. I also remember when the students tore out the goalposts from the stadium and staged a sort of "death march" down Livernois for the football program when it was discontinued in 1965. I don't see how it could possibly be economically feasible for the university to re-establish the football program given the harsh realities of modern college athletics, as has already been discussed earlier in this topic. Even without a football TEAM, it seems that U-D could do a little more to honor it's football legacy. Their former coach, Gus Dorais (along with his Notre Dame teammate, Knute Rockne) is the father of the forward pass, for God's sake. Hat's off to big Grady Alderman, the last U-D Titan to play in the NFL, he retired from the Minnesota Vikings in 1974. | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 212 Registered: 11-2005 |
Bring Baseball Back!!!!! | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 318 Registered: 10-2006 |
Yeah, see exactly! UDM can't keep a lot of athletics afloat, let alone a football team and stadium... | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 107 Registered: 12-2006 |
Div I Baseball involves a couple dozen full scholarships. Div I-AA Football does not. That's the major difference in expense. (And there's no such thing as Div I-AA Baseball.) There's plenty of room on that campus for a football field with some bleachers, if (as intended) it is a mixed-use athletic field. There's no place to put a big-ass football cathedral like the big IA schools do, but that does not appear to be the intent. LY, UD had club football from about 1965 to 1970, at which time the University decided to knock down the stadium for public safety reasons, and that brings me to Umstucoach's comment. We all know that UDM's campus is near many expressways; that's not the issue. The issue is public perception of the Detroit neighborhoods, among the 3.6 million suburbanites, is such that most are unlikely to attend an event in that area for any reason whatsoever. In fact, it's a very nice neighborhood; I've spent time in the area. But if you're trying to convince the public to come to a location for an event, it's perception that matters, not reality. The perception is, it's a non-downtown Detroit neighborhood, ergo it must be bad. Remember in the early '70s under Dick Vitale, the City itself had almost double the population it does today, so there were many more people already in the City to attend the games. Tough nut to crack! But, as I said earlier, football? Bring it! | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2240 Registered: 10-2004 |
MU got around to knocking down its 15,000 seat Marquette Stadium in 1974. BTW, in 1952, the Packers played their Milwaukee games there before moving to Milwaukee County Stadium the next year. MU's FB club from 1965 to whatever rarely won. UD beat them 22-6 in 1965. It was an odd stadium with seats only on one side as I remember from playing there myself. It was by a tiny residential neighborhood near County Stadium and the Miller Brewery a few blocks from MUHS, just across the Menominee River from the secluded Pigsville neighborhood under the Wisconsin Avenue bridge. Its independent residents raised their own hogs. It was like trollsville near there once before urban renewal took it out. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 339 Registered: 10-2006 |
Beat Butler! Go Titans! Game time 4:05pm today at Calihan Hall | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 112 Registered: 11-2006 |
? for ProfessorScott (or anyone) if I may: Would FB fans flock to the Wayne State stadium if they approach NCAA D-II playoff status (possible this year, my hunch)? Would the perception issue you discuss with UDM be a problem for WSU as it is obviously outside downtown Detroit? I guess this boils down to a generic question of folks perceptions of the UDM and WSU neighborhoods. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 457 Registered: 01-2006 |
I plan to check out the Titans against Butler this afternoon. I'm excited to see a game at Calihan...I heard it's a great place for a game. Anyone have an idea how much tickets cost? I assume there will be plenty available? | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 343 Registered: 10-2006 |
I don't think that they are that much. I am a recent grad and students got in for free. I think that they were like $5 for the general public. Try to get there somewhat early so you can sit on the bleachers courtside (except don't sit in the student section because that's where only drunk and loud people that are really into the game are allowed to sit, such as my former self). Also, park on the street so that you don't have to pay to park (I think that that is only like $3 anyways, but saving you money here). P.S. if you go early enough and so desire, stop in/near the tailgate tent and say hi to all the cool people. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 458 Registered: 01-2006 |
I really enjoyed going to the game today. I know they didnt win, but it was a good effort. I think I will have to attend more games coming up. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 345 Registered: 10-2006 |
yeah, this is one of their worst seasons so far for the basketball team... It doesn't really matter how bad you are it just affects the seeding for the Horizon League tournament. The team that wins obviously gets a bid into NCAA tourney. Therefore, it doesn't matter how bad you do until you loose in the HL tourney... But if UDM had a football team, I'm sure they would be doing much better than the basketball (hint of sarcasm). |
