Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 First Steel GreekTown Casino Previous Next
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Flybydon
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Username: Flybydon

Post Number: 77
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 7:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Noticed today that First Steel is going up at Greek Town Hotel. It won't be long now.






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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 656
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 8:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw the pouring the foundation about a week ago. I suspect they are erecting a construction crane.
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Gianni
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Username: Gianni

Post Number: 276
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 10:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The overhead shot really highlights what a perfect place for a casino this is. Right between a church and a jail.
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Southen
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Username: Southen

Post Number: 95
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 11:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well to be fair its just the hotel for the casino, but I agree it is humorous. I cant wait to see some height coming from this site. Its going to be very cool having a skyscraper in that part of town.
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 1079
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 12:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

are they keeping the current casino?
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Southen
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Username: Southen

Post Number: 97
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 12:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They are expanding the gaming space. What they are building in the photos is the hotel and a parking garage.
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 1081
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 12:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ha you have to walk outside from the hotel to the casino? that won't fly over to well with the clientele
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 357
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 12:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love the 'temp' casino where it is at because it at least as some interaction with surrounding businesses not a block unto itself as unfortunately MGM and Motor City are. At greektown you have to walk several blocks to get from the parking to the existing casino helping to add to that interaction.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 206
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 12:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chitaku,

There will be a "moving skywalk" attaching the hotel/garage/casino
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Nellonfury
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Username: Nellonfury

Post Number: 213
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 5:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In case you guys forgot how's the expansion is gonna look, here's the image. Just remember that this is an old image and the hotel will be on top of the parking garage.


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93typhoon
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Username: 93typhoon

Post Number: 12
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 8:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What will happen to the building between the casino and the garage/Hotel. I think it was a school. They appear to be using it as a job site HQ. Is that where the additional casino floor space will come from ?
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 1083
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 8:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the casino really brings a lot of action to this corner, it's a shame the space between here and Lafayette park is so empty down lafayette.
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 470
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 8:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not exactly empty down Lafayette, it's just not built for foot traffic. The townhouses on the North side of Lafayette are pretty dense, but well hidden from the roadway thanks to the lanscaping.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2373
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 10:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That skywalk will obstruct the beautiful perspective of St. Mary's that pedestrians on Monroe St. get. I'm not too happy about that, but a new high-rise and street level retail where there used to be a parking garage will make up for this.
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Walterwaves
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Username: Walterwaves

Post Number: 52
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 10:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

tsk tsk tsk,,,,,it'll just be further decay for the city.

Don't believe me, look at Atlantic City, Vegas,just a large ghetto surrounding a few nice looking buildings where poor and middle class spend their entire paychecks headed into homelessness.

How about building some real damn businesses. I know you guys can't think turning Detroit into a gambling mecca is actually good do you?
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1324
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 10:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe they will add neon to the skywalk and it will look the People Mover Station. But I have to agree with Mackinaw, it is going to destroy the view of the church.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8092
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 10:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was wondering why all the scrappers had woodys while they headed down Gratiot yesterday.
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Spitty
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Username: Spitty

Post Number: 527
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 10:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Double Dubya, The casino is already there if people want to take that route to homelessness. This hotel will just attract people from further away while employing people nearby. How is this going to make things worse in the surrounding area? Do people really lose their asses so bad that they are doomed to hang out around the casino for the rest of their days? You think all of the homeless people in Greektown were forced into that lifestyle by the casino?
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Tiorted
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Username: Tiorted

Post Number: 44
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 10:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

im confused about this sky walk - is it going out and above Monroe? the graphic Nellonfury posted kind of compresses the distance from the current casino to the new construction, it is actually not that close.

not sure if this is a final rendering but which direction will the new hotel face?


greektown
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 941
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 10:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The "moving skywalk" no longer moves.....as for the "view of the church"....How about that view of the school building that they let rot for 20 years....or perhaps all of the property, sales, and Detroit Income taxes that all of the employees of the church pay...read $0. Or how about the "view of the church" from Lafayette....ONE BIG FLAT PARKING LOT...beautiful, really.
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 942
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 11:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tiorted, the graphic from Nell is fairly accurate.....The picture above isn't exact, but pretty close to the final....This picture is looking NE, from the SW.....the SW corner of St. Antoine and Monroe. you are staring right down the skywalk, that's why you can't see it in this elevation.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8097
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 11:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I never thought you could see the beauty in something flat, Gambling_man.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2374
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 11:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't the school building being sold?

It would make a nice office-residential building.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2414
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 11:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While the casinos did little to help Atlantic city. Atlantic city was a decaying city long before the casinos ever came. Casinos do not effect cities growth. They don't help and they don't hurt it. They are not a magic bullet. Whatever the conditions are before the casinos come, will continue after the casinos.

However, Vegas is still one of the fastest growing cities in the country. The downtown core of Vegas was never the place to be. Everything happens on the strip and Vegas' forever expanding suburbs.

In Detroit the Casinos have allowed the property taxes and income taxes to be reduced or remain the same rather than be increased. They put over $100 million in new tax revenues into the City's budget each year. Either we would have had to raise taxes or decrease the already sad availability of services to make up for the money the casinos have brought.

They have paid for land that is being turned into an incredible park/living space on the river.

While I am not a gambler, I see the casinos as being a great asset and employer in a city starved for ongoing tax income and job prospects. No other business is willing to pay these kind of huge tax burdens to operate within the city of Detroit. No High tech or manufacturing company could afford to take on the tax liabilities the casinos must. No other business would put up with as much crap as the casinos do.

The casinos bring people into the city that would never think of coming here. If even a small portion of those people return for a non gambling trip the city will benefit.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8099
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 11:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

N,

Thank you for that, it was truly illuminating.
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Walterwaves
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Username: Walterwaves

Post Number: 53
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 11:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, so I thought about what N had to say, and some others. Maybe the casinos will end up being a good thing instead of the bad that I have so often seen in other parts of the country.
My concern, and my thoughts and observations lead me to believe the casinos not only in Detroit, but all over have killed the businesses that have been there forever.
On the other hand, as "N" puts it, I can see where it may end up making Dtown breathe again.
In the course of killing off the old , it brings in the new and with the new come more people, more businesses.

Ok "N" , you have officially changed my mind regarding the casinos. I only hope it doesnt take years of crime on the upswing downtown before things finally get better.
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 688
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 11:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr. Waves, you're off base on the Detroit casino issue. Sure, economic growth Sunbelt style would have been preferable, but Detroit has managed this industry well (albeit with a few missteps)and is a lot better off after six years or so of gaming than it would have been without it. The permanent facilities will improve the experience for casino patrons and can only further benefit the city.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3538
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 11:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you want to see buildings rot after 20 years go look at any unoccupied Ilitch property.

The St. Mary's school roof appears to be intact (from the photo above), and the building mothballed (not caving in).

(Message edited by Gistok on January 30, 2007)
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2375
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 12:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Ndavies' assessment. The casinos don't overpower, and ruin, a city this large. They are one of many things 'going on' downtown, and are a everyday attraction, unlike shows and sporting events. At least one of the casinos is integrated very well into downtown. They are supplying hotel and convention space, and adding to the skyline. They employ people. They pay taxes, and they bring people and $$ in from Oakland County and other outsiders, and there is nothing wrong with that.
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 62
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 12:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My only problem with the casinos is the fact that they now use the old goodyear car production sign. There is no better symbolism for the fall of the auto in Detroit or even the decline of the city than the replacement of the cities bread and butter with a casino advertisement. Dont get me wrong I agree with the above post I just always cringe when i see that sign.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8106
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 12:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The city should commandeer that sign and display a running current population total.

I think proper feedback is crucial to knowing if you're heading towards a positive direction.
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Christos
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Username: Christos

Post Number: 21
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 2:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Personally, I think the view of the church from the walkway will be pretty cool! Will parking still be free? What will happen to the other two casino structures?
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Jasoncw
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Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 332
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 3:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wish the skywalk would just go right diagonal across the street.
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 944
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 4:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The skywalk does go diagonal across the street. Christos, not sure what you mean the other two casino structures?

For everyone, the casino expansion itself takes place over TOP of Lafayette (ending in the median), and in the empty space that is now Lavdas Jewelers.
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Christos
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Username: Christos

Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 4:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, I meant what will happen to the two casino parking structures.
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 2071
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 4:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

and in the empty space that is now Lavdas Jewelers.



Wouldn't that mean that the space is not empty?
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Tiorted
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Username: Tiorted

Post Number: 47
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 5:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i made up a graphic, some who may know please explain where this sky walk will end up:yellow red or green


casino


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/130/374846997_67cec459c7_o.jpg
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 945
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 5:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dabirch, Lavdas is now gone, although the building still stands. Most of that space is flat-parking now.(Empty) Tiorted, the Green Line is the most accurate, however, the skywalk will attach itself to the building and follow parallel west along monroe until somewhere between the red and yellow lines....
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 657
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 6:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While in the RenCen today, I happen to glance over toward the Greek Town Casino. The steel structure being erected in the first pictures is indeed a construction crane.
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 946
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 6:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You should start seeing the concrete go up for the garage next week. The pieces are already made, just waiting to be put in place.
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Toog05
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Username: Toog05

Post Number: 103
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 6:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How long does it take for the construction crane to be erected?

I'm hoping I can see it in the sky by the time I come back to Detroit in a few days.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1312
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 6:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As someone who worked in the gaming industry for six years in Nevada, I can testify that gambling interests will never have a problem with destroying or mutilating 19th- and early 20th-century buildings to serve their own purposes. It happened in Reno, Vegas, and everywhere else that the gaming industry has power. Now it's happening here, too, albeit on a smaller scale.

By the way, one should never compare the Detroit casino scene to the Vegas model, where a large chunk of the revenue comes from out-of-towners seeking a gaming-resort "destination." No, rather, the Detroit gambling revenue more closely follows a small-scale paradigm more like that of a Reno or an Elko or even a Winnemucca, where most of the dollars come from working-class locals who can't really afford to lose that money. But lose it they do.

Is it good for our depressed Michigan economy? You tell me.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 209
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 7:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gambling man, (or anyone)

So what is the official hight of the building? Ive heard anywhere from 20-38 stories...
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Toog05
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Username: Toog05

Post Number: 104
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 8:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Greektown hotel/garage complex will comprise of a 30 story hotel attached to the 13 story garage. The height of hotel comes out to 105 m, which is about 344 feet.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 392
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 8:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How many rooms?
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 474
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 9:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is about equivalent to the First National building in height...that seems very short for 30 stories, let alone 13 floors of parking as well.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 393
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 9:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another rendering, slightly different then the first.

http://www.theworldiscoming.com/images/gitg.greektown





Included in the plans:
* a new 13-story, 3,500-space parking garage at Monroe and St. Antoine
* a 30-story, 400-room hotel attached to the parking garage
* 25,000 square feet of convention space
* spa
* 1,200-1,500-seat theater
* 25,000 square feet of additional gaming space to meet the 100,000-square-foot requirement.

*Thank you Wikipedia

(Message edited by SCS100 on January 30, 2007)
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 395
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 9:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Funny how these keep changing.

http://hometown.aol.com/shramqo/images/greektown_a.jpg



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Southen
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Username: Southen

Post Number: 99
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 10:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scs100 both of those renderings, at least i know the first one for sure, are from the older plan when Greektown planned on using an empty parking lot for the hotel. That changed when they couldnt get the land and the hotel/garage rendering further up is their current plan.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3542
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 11:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gambling_man, so what you are saying is that the non-moving walkway is going to be attached to the side (exterior) of the St. Mary's School Building?

I assume that a non-moving sidewalk will mean that the walkway will be less bulky.

Do you know what they plan on doing (reuse) with the St. Mary's school building itself?
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5455
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 9:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YAY!! A permanent casino near to two churches. What a coincidence!
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8142
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 10:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, Danny...institutionalized fleecing, all in a row! How co-incidental...how efficient. Must be a zoning thing, huh?!


Fury,

After living in LA and driving to Lost Wages for my industry's trade show a few times through the desert...I've come to realize that Bugsy's dream would NEVER have succeeded if it weren't for 'safe' proximity to the big city.

Far enough outside comfortable, casual investigation of bad behavior to stay hidden, but close enough to drive to in a day.

I do not think I will EVER put the casinos in the 'good' category, but with Ndavies' post above at least I've bumped them from the 'bad' listing where they were solidly entrenched in my mind.
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 947
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 10:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's see, one at a time.....

30 stories total (don't add the parking stories onto that)...I'm even sketchy on height, but around 300ft.
400 room hotel.
Scs' first rendering was when it was planned on the parking lot of the Greek Orthodox Church.
Scs' second rendering was when it was planned on the corner of Gratiot and I-375.
Gistok, much less bulky, yes. The current plan is to anchor it into the school building on the corner and run it in front of the building until it enters the new "Gap" building (where Lavdas is)
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 948
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 10:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok, The church building will become employee offices, wardrobe, etc.. Perhaps a first-floor leased space....not sure yet.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8145
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 12:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

church building will become employee offices



Somebody go check on Danny, STAT!

I think he may've just exploded...spontaneous combustion under pressure.
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 659
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 1:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I recall from another thread about the Greek town hotel/parking garage, the hotel was going to be erect on the portion of the parcel closest to the gaming hall. The parking garage would face the I-375 freeway and service drive.
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Toog05
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Username: Toog05

Post Number: 105
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 1:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats right Bibs, because they must connect the skywalk from the casino to the hotel, which will be on the side closest to the casino and the garage facing the I-375 service drive.

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