  Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 661 Registered: 01-2004 |
With our city's economic future in question due to lower sales by Ford and GM, now more than ever I'd like to express my support for buying American cars. Does anyone know where I can get a Support Detroit/Buy American bumper sticker? ....to think that at a time like this metro Detroiters are buying non-U.S. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 388 Registered: 10-2006 |
I think that Detroit isn't having anymore problems than usual. The auto industries left years ago. It has no affect on the city. Just look at downtown: the best in several years... | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4217 Registered: 10-2003 |
I have a Ford built in Ontario. Is that a foreign car or domestic because it was built in the international collection of communities etc, etc? What about a Saturn built in Tennessee? Or God forbid a Toyota built in West Virgina? How does your bumper sticker answer those questions. Reminds me about the time I challenged the SEIU's domestic's only lot policy because the lot attendant's sweatshirt was made in China. Some low-grade union official came out to re-explain the policy to me and she was wearing a diamond necklace (nothing flashy but diamonds none the less). I asked her why, if my Mazda was so immoral that it could not use their lot, was her diamond, probably mined by child slaves in Africa, acceptable? There was no answer. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1188 Registered: 12-2003 |
Come on Jelk, stop pretending you don't know the answer to those questions. A Ford made in Canada is eons different from a Toyota, where the profits are going back to Tokyo. Your Ford is made by an American company, the auto workers happen to be unionized Canadians, right across the river. Gee, I wonder which is better, that Ford or a Honda? The Saturn built by unionized workers in Tennessee is GM = American. What part of "I want to support American cars" is unclear? Or are you a big bad, union-hating Republican? It would be ideal if every garment and belonging we owned was union-made, so as to assure that those making it had a fair shake. Even if you can't achieve it with everything you buy, doesn't mean it isn't worth trying. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1481 Registered: 12-2005 |
I've been looking for a "Detroit Iron" or "Detroit Steel" license plate frame to complement the new, blue plate on my Mustang GT. Anyone know where I could find one? | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 423 Registered: 10-2006 |
There is no such thing anymore as The Big 3. Chrysler is now a german company. | ||
Yaktown Member Username: Yaktown Post Number: 100 Registered: 02-2006 |
Do the "Buy American!" stickers also pertain to items other than your car? I mean that TV you watch was made in Japan, that nice shirt you just bought was made in Pakistan, your dinner plate was made in China. I scoff at those with such bumper stickers, perhaps they should go home and throw away everything not made in this country. | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 662 Registered: 01-2004 |
Yaktown, that makes no sense. Its called buy Detroit. If you can't see the connection between buying American and the condition of Southeast MI I'm surprised you know how to use a computer. Pffft, good answer to Jelk. Its always been used to muddle the issue. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 814 Registered: 02-2006 |
Are any of you boycotting the Chevy Aveo, made in Korea? How about the Saturn Vue with the V6 made by Honda? Or the Fords built in Mexico. Or the Chrysler Crossfire, built in Germany which is also where the profits go as well. For that matter, if you'd buy a Chrysler, why not buy a Mercedes? Or how about Mazdas, which are assembled in Japan, but use a lot of joint technology with Ford, including engines from Ohio and codeveloped platforms. Ford also owns a large share of Mazda, so a lot of the profit ends up back here in the US. Ford workers get discounts on Mazdas built in Japan. I think some of YOU are confusing the issue by making this about union/non-union and politics. It's no longer a question with a clear answer. What's amusing to me is seeing the proliferation of F-150s with "Buy American" stickers in the parking lot at Wal-Mart. (Message edited by focusonthed on February 04, 2007) | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 4440 Registered: 11-2004 |
If nothing else, the truth be known is that it is now a global economy. Detroit, the US and all of us need to be that much more competitive. Just a slogan of Buy US isn't going to cut it. We, as a country need to give people a reason to buy things other than the fact it was made here- that just speaks of regionalism and unfounded pride. The American economy needs to realize that its strength is in its innovation. We need to be innovative again; if it's THAT good, people will be clamoring for our products and we won't even have to encourage anyone to buy our goods. Bring me American innovation over bumper stickers and slogans any day. If America is going to compete and if Detroit is ever going to compete, we need to be on the forefront again. | ||
Korridorkid Member Username: Korridorkid Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2005 |
Jimaz- With all due respect-"Detroit Steel" pertaining to american cars is a myth. The american auto industries started purchasing foreign steel for over 45% of their automobiles as early as 1982! As of this post over 89% of all "american made" automobiles on the road today are made using almost 95% foreign steel from China, India, and parts of Europe. The remaining parts representing American Steel are simply minor electrical components and bolts. You can't find a car on the road today without it being made up of at LEAST 60% foreign steel. Even the former Ford Rouge Plant is owned by Severstal, a Russian Steel Corp. I find it very ironic when i hear such strong uninformed support for American made automobiles when they were one of the first large profit companies to abandon the American Steel industry which has fallen on extremely hard times. Is the American product inferior? Honestly, sometimes. Are their prices higher? Usually, but for god's sake that mobile hunk of metal with the "American Made" stickers all over it is a moving contradiction. I'm bitter about it, sorry if i sound harsher than i intend. Sincerely, A kid that was raised by American Steel. (Message edited by KorridorKid on February 04, 2007) | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2006 |
Face it, the auto industry is not in trouble-- the big three are. The global auto industry continues to roll on and employs many Americans. | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2006 |
Smogboy said it all. I don't want to denigrate American car companies or their products. A huge amount of progress has been made since the 1970's and they make some good stuff. But, the world is vastly more competitive and we are not measuring up. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 680 Registered: 10-2003 |
Amen to what smogboy posted, it's the truth. I remember very recently I went out to my car (GM) in the parking lot of a Kroger's in Novi after doing some grocery shopping. I looked around at all the other cars and they were ALL Hondas and Toyotas. There wasn't ONE (no joke) domestic model in the lot, but to be honest it was very early so the parking lot wasn't too crowded. On the other hand, even with the economic devestation wrought on our regional economy by the shrinking big 2.5, they STILL contribute far more to this region than all the other foreign automakers. It is a global economy and Detroit just has to be more innovative than the competition or they will die. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5479 Registered: 02-2004 |
Face it FORD, CHRYSLER AND GM is in the profit loss. Maybe it would be better to sell the big 3 to Toyota Honda and Mitsubishi. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 77 Registered: 01-2007 |
Im probably not going to be very popular after this opinionbut here goes,,The unions played and still play a major roll in the downfall of the American Auto Industry. While unions were a great idea way back when, it has gotten to the point were some union employees get more money than friggin heart surgeons. Its utterly ridiculous if you ask me. I know someone layed off from American Azle years ago and is called back once in a while just so he can collect unemployemt and other benefits. Im sorry but in my experiences with unions throughout the years show me the ridiculousness of having such organazations is counter productive. Sure some of you will disagree but thats because you are union. People want to complain American Cars aren't any good anymore well guess what? They are not. Auto makers had to start making cheap crappy autos to try and compete with foreign giants all the while paying ridiculous salaries to keep their "employees" happy and these are the same people who would not have a problem at all just picking up and leaving in a heartbeat if it meant their company was in real trouble. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 4441 Registered: 11-2004 |
We, as a country are no longer entitled to be number one if we can't back it up with our actions. When our market share of auto sales started slipping, that shoud've been our wake up call. The Japanese car companies bloodied our noses with that and we've been slow to respond. That's the true tragedy there. We have the industrial might and the finances STILL and yet we stubbornly remained loyal to OUR methods- when it was obvious someone was doing it better, faster and cheaper. That's why I continue agruing for us to re-invent ourselves. Stay nimble. Use that knowledge and know how and be on the next cutting edge- whether it's with partnerships, new fuel technology, better production methods. How do we trump the next guy and get them turning their head in amazement? I keep looking at Apple and the model they use. For a small market share, everytime they come up with a new product (drooling over iPhone), it makes mega-giant Microsoft jump. Apple keeps innovating and inventing. They're using the knowledge they have built upon, improving it and then making a huge splash with that technology. THEY set the bar high for everyone to reach. The auto industry and the nation needs to set the bar high again for everything. No one is entitled to be number one just because we've been or just because we say we are. The proof is out there by our own consumption. There's plent yof blame to be levied (from the unions to the companies themselves- both got lazy), but instead of finger pointing and chest thumping, let's be innovative in ways that turn people's heads again and lead again... while we still have some power left to do so. (Message edited by smogboy on February 04, 2007) | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 400 Registered: 10-2006 |
This phenomenon of foreign companies increasing their share in industries that started in America isn't just an auto thing, but it has happened in basically any manufacturing industry. Fortunately they can't take over my architecture profession as buildings built in any given state must be designed by those licensed in the state. Not a lot of professions have this interesting safe guard. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 839 Registered: 06-2004 |
You gotta by ford, gm or chyrsler if you live in or near Detroit. Let's not kid ourselves. You take care of your own first. To hell with Toyota, and Gerogetown Kentucky. And especially to hell with Honda and Marysville, Ohio. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 4442 Registered: 11-2004 |
Ray, that's the stubborness I speak of. Just because we live in this area- we HAVE to support a product we don't feel good about? I'm no saying the quality of the product is below that of Japanese cars by any means- in many instances, the Big 3 has caught up and surpassed that of Japanese car makers in quality but not perception. That perception was brought on IMO by those many years of them not being innovative. The Big 3 stuck with a formula of making huge profits and not re-inventing themselves for a changing global market. Stop being stubborn, be able to meet the challenge of a global market and I think we'll succeed again. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1192 Registered: 12-2003 |
So Smogboy does your "global market" include a level playing field for ALL the auto companies? Or do you think the American automakers need to be three times as good in order to overcome the trade advantages Toyota and Honda have, not to mention the support from the Japanese government in the form of free health care and tariffs against American imports? Global market my ass. Japanese protectionism. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 4443 Registered: 11-2004 |
Okay, that being said Pffft... how do we come up with a way to solve it? Again, I call upon good ol' American ingenuity to solve this as opposed to grousing about it and getting beat at it. | ||
Jimg Member Username: Jimg Post Number: 772 Registered: 10-2003 |
The last new car I purchased was a 99 Saturn. Owning that car was not a great experience. Haven't bought a new car since - I buy used cars now, cars with high resale value. I assume those who beat the 'buy American' drum own new Ford or GM cars? How old? Or lease them? Ray, what a provincial attitude - 'the hell with cars built by American workers'? Just because they are not made in the Detroit area? What if Toyota brought in the UAW to their US plants? Would those who now condemn Toyota change their stance? | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1193 Registered: 12-2003 |
HAHAHAHAHAHA JimG you gave me the best laugh today. Toyota allow their plants in the U.S. to be unionized? NO way. In Japan, of course they have a union in those plants. And they have national, paid by the government, health insurance. Here corporations are rewarded for treating their employees like crap. | ||
Toolbox Member Username: Toolbox Post Number: 1030 Registered: 10-2003 |
My favorite is the F350 with a Calvin pissing on (choose you least favorite Asian make) sticker hauling a trailer containing $60K in Asian produced snow machines. I find that very ironic. | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 663 Registered: 01-2004 |
focus on the d it is that simple. The lion's share of the GM and Ford comees to Detroit. Headquaters and profit. There is still a lot of assembly and production here as well. You're seeing everything in black and white. All Detroit or All foreign. One, because globalization has made these companies spread into more foreign areas, the bottom line is the balance tilts here with plenty of plants, profits, engineering and headquarters. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 817 Registered: 02-2006 |
No, I'm seeing things quite gray, actually. I ask why you wouldn't buy a Toyota truck, which had it's R&D and it's production done in the U.S., but you'd willingly buy a "Chrysler" that was designed, built, and profited from in Germany. For what it's worth, I drive a Ford that was built in S.E. Michigan. But it's just not always that simple. | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 664 Registered: 01-2004 |
I wouldn't buy it because it has no link to Detroit. Profits go to Japan, car assembled in Kentucky/Tenn, somewhere other than Detroit. That's why I wouldn't buy it. Now answer my question. Do you really think there is no different effect on SE MI or Michigan as a whole in buying a Toyota or a Ford? Buying either would have no positive or negative effect on our state and specifically the southeast part of it. ? | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1699 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Why would the workers want that, they make more money than their unionized counterparts. quote: Show me a country in the world that spends $1.7 Trillion on Health Care with Nationalized Insurance. It will never happen, get over it and learn to bargain with it as a disadvantage. Learn to be competitive or die, that is the world we live in. Stop bitching about things out of your control when you will not fix the problems within your control. quote: You mean those legal tariffs compared to the ILLEGAL ones this country attempts to place on foreign companies. Remember the majority of these tariffs are in place by the international community in the face of illegal American trade(i.e. the Byrd Amendment). | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1496 Registered: 05-2005 |
my two foreign cars were made 18 and 14 years ago, but i pay a local mechanics to fix them, how does that fit into this overly simplified domestic vs. foreign theory? | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 253 Registered: 11-2006 |
your van looks like some sort of gravitymachine  | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 665 Registered: 01-2004 |
ohh come on. What do you think Gravity Machine? There is an expiration date on supporting Detroit or not? You bought foreign and you contributed to the demise of the Big 3. Its quite simple. I can understand the allure of buying foreign, but I care more about my hometown and its well being. You throw in a little cross country production adn everyone says its complicated and we can't figure it out!... as a cover to I'll buy what I want and not feel bad about it. I drive on 96 and see a Ford facility. I drive on Jefferson and see GM HQ, I drive on Jefferson and see DaimlerChrysler assembly, I drive in Lansing and see GM assembly. I drive in Dearborn and see Ford HQ.You mean to tell me it doesn't matter what we buy in relation to our region? | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1704 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: That is pretty funny, the Big Three's demise was brought on by themselves and no one else. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1194 Registered: 12-2003 |
Admit it, sj...you support imports. You support Japan's gross national product. What's so shameful about that? You should be proud, judging from everything you write. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 1111 Registered: 02-2004 |
Walterwaves, show me the UAW autoworker who makes more than a heart surgeon, and I'll marry him. Several Toyata US plants are organized, but I will still always drive a Ford. My experiences have been uniformly excellent and I see no reason to stop. If we could only get the mpg up it would be perfect. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1195 Registered: 12-2003 |
I only know of the NUMMI plant in California, the GM-Toyota joint project, as organized, and that's strictly because of GM's involvement, are there any others? | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 1116 Registered: 02-2004 |
UAW (or CAW or IE/UAW made vehicles http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/aut o/2006/index.cfm The Corolla is made by UAW members. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1196 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yeah I think the Corolla is made at NUMMI. I know of no other UAW-made Toyotas. | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 126 Registered: 02-2006 |
It's not a matter of the home teams being competitive, it's the Japanese government stacking the deck by lying about their currency. And why do they do it? Because they screwed up their own banking system so bad by writing crummy loans over the last decade that they are using us to bail them out. Any nation that lies about thier money is just as capable of lying about much more. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1494 Registered: 12-2005 |
Cui bono? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2400 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: Just out of curiosity, doesn't the spell checker work on thread banners? | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 543 Registered: 12-2005 |
It didn't work on this classic thread, either: Bumb Hunting | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2401 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yeh! I still remember that one... Lots of yucks. | ||
Drankin21 Member Username: Drankin21 Post Number: 60 Registered: 12-2003 |
"Now answer my question. Do you really think there is no different effect on SE MI or Michigan as a whole in buying a Toyota or a Ford? Buying either would have no positive or negative effect on our state and specifically the southeast part of it. ?" Ask the 10,000 tax paying white collar workers about to get canned that work in Dearborn this question. No one should deny the fact that the former "big 3" made MAJOR mistakes in the 80's and 90's but that does not make it alright to turn your backs on them since they have owned up to these mistakes and are now making competitive products. GM/Ford/Chrysler will continue to pay for their inattention to the global marketplace for the foreseeable future but you are not helping this rebirth/redelopment/readjustme nt by buying anything but a GM/Ford/Chrysler product. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1705 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Really, who is stacking the deck? Might want to double check that and get some second opinions even from our fine Canadian friends to North. | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 35 Registered: 10-2006 |
I think that the situation is complex, but nobody is getting real unless they look at the roles unions have played in this. I never saw a strike because the union was afraid their product sucked. How much concern was there? Kill me if I am wrong but doesn't the slow turnover of American models relate to how hard it is to ever shut down a plant? For the record, I agree that Japan runs a very rigged game, but that does not explain it all. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1201 Registered: 12-2003 |
LOL, oh yeah, it's real hard to close down plants. Just ask the thousands in SE Michigan who've been laid off. | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2006 |
Thanks to threads like this, no foreign auto maker will open up a plant in Michigan. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 4450 Registered: 11-2004 |
A plant, no. They would face far too much separatism and hatred from the locals because they got bested at their own game. Instead of welcoming the competition that would make the entire region better, the blue collar employees have this hatred. Can you imagine if somehow magically this region built Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais, and every other manner of car besides the Big Three's?? But the foreign carmakers will come here and be a part of the design & creative circles. I wonder if it's just a white vs. blue collar mentality. | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2006 |
Here's the quote from the economist article on Detroit. ( I think it applies to the mentality among a lot of people in Pittsburgh too ) "All the while, some city council members act as though they would not mind if the downtown hollowed out completely—so long as the last person to leave got union wages and benefits for turning out the lights." I think that's the mentality at work with a lot of people. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1499 Registered: 05-2005 |
quote: actually, I bought domestic...both of these cars were bought from private michigan based parties in the last 5 years. The OEM's haven't seen a dime of the purchase price.....and i'm still asking what of the money I pay my local mechanic to fix them? now if I were to buy a new car, I'd by a domestic (GM) without a doubt, but since insurance in the city is so damn high, that isn't going to happen any time soon. (Message edited by gravitymachine on February 08, 2007) | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 552 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote: Keep kidding yourself if you want, but your "domestic" purchase incrementally increased the residual value of that foreign make and model, thus allowing that manufacturer to offer more attractive leases on their new versions of that model and to advertise that it has a higher resale value than their domestic competition. |
