Post Number: 358
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 7:38 pm: || |
Interesting Wikipedia section on this:
Is it all true?
Post Number: 2374
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 7:44 pm: || |
Pretty much accurate. I read it last month.
Base Line, BTW, if extended west was intended to be the state line between Illinois and Wisconsin.
Post Number: 62
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 7:48 pm: || |
Perhaps, but the mention of Charles Street as a continuation of McNichols Rd. seems a little off (like, about a half a mile off). Perhaps the author meant Houston Whittier St.
Post Number: 77
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 7:54 pm: || |
My brother and I went looking for the intersection of Base Line and Meridian once upon a time. There is supposed to be a survey marker at that point. The entire state was basically surveyed from that marker, from those two lines.
The marker seemed to exist in the middle of private land out there south of Lansing. Meridian road runs south out of East Lansing, but like 8 mile/Base Line eventually peters out. We got within a half mile of it on all 4 sides but did not venture closer through fences and such.
Since then there was supposed to be a park that was to be established by the state to contain/surround the marker and provide public access. No knowledge here as to whether that ever happened.
Post Number: 1486
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 8:23 pm: || |
Ptero, according the aerial photo at http://local.live.com/ , Meridian runs right through where that intersection would be. Do you have the LAT/LONG for that intersection? Google Earth puts it at 42°25'29"N 84°21'21"W.
Post Number: 333
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 8:33 pm: || |
Meridian-Baseline State Park
Post Number: 1487
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 8:59 pm: || |
Wikimapia puts the park at about 1½ miles north of that LAT/LONG. Go figure.
Post Number: 2376
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 9:13 pm: || |
When the government surveyor was working on setting the Wisconsin-Illinois state line (Base Line), there were rumors of Indian marauders nearby. So in haste in South Beloit IL, the state line is off by about 1/3 mile, whereby the southerly two or three streets in Beloit WI are actually in Illinois! The Beloit land grab just about where the Aldi store in South Beloit is.
Post Number: 78
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 9:30 pm: || |
Here's a site that puts the meridian at 84°22'24"W though I can't speak to it's accuracy.
Back when, we were working with a map my brother had come up with. The marker location was noted aways off the road. We guessed (granted, possibly wrongly guessed) the road had by that point shifted off of the actual meridian. Hmmm... The 'landlocked' comment on the dnr site would seem to put it somewhat away from the road.
The dnr map is confusing as it has the location marked a good half mile north of the base line marking. They place it between the two Fitchburg intersections with Meridian. another hmmmm.
Ah well, ROAD TRIP!!
Post Number: 537
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 10:48 pm: || |
The Meridian-Baseline State Park is identified as not accessible to the public and the DNR map just locates it to the nearest major road intersection as a deliberate approximation.
The USGS Topo Quad map fragment below shows that the intersection of the Michigan Meridian (identified by an evenly dashed line marked "Meridian") and the east Baseline (the border between Jackson and Ingham Counties) is about one-half mile west of Meridian Road. I would expect that the "State Park" is located on that site. The west Baseline was apparently "corrected" by the surveyors and it intersects with the Meridian about one-quarter mile to the south. The border between Jackson and Ingham Counties follows this jog to the south and then to the west.
Post Number: 3591
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 10:52 pm: || |
"Note: On Detroit's far east side, which is aligned according to the French colonial long lot system rather than the Northwest Ordinance survey grid, Cadieux Road, Moross Road and Vernier Roads are not extensions of 6 Mile Road, 7 Mile Road and 8 Mile Road, respectively. East McNichols (6 Mile) ends at Gratiot Avenue, with traffic continuing to Cadieux two miles away via Seymour Street and Morang Avenue. East 7 Mile Road ends as a short one-way side street at Kelly Road, two blocks east of where Moross veers off from 7 Mile, taking most traffic with it. Most traffic on 8 Mile Road continuing east of Kelly Road veers onto Vernier Road; 8 Mile continues as a side street eastward for a short distance past Harper Avenue. This is a common misconception by residents of Detroit, Harper Woods and Grosse Pointe, as Cadieux, Moross and Vernier appear to be extensions of their mile-road neighbors, but are in fact roads in their own right."
Misconception by residents of the far east side? What a silly statement to make. It's not as though far eastsiders are clueless about where 7 or 8 mile end and where Moross and Vernier begin!
Most every eastsider knows that 7 Mile and 8 Mile run for a short length concurrent with Moross and Vernier. This is especially true with 8 Mile, which for quite a way is the Harper Woods/Grosse Pointe Woods border with SCS, while Vernier runs south of there.
Wikipedia... it's not always Gospel!
Post Number: 79
|Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 11:15 pm: || |
Good stuff, Mikeg. Looks great.
Post Number: 335
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 12:21 am: || |
Keep in mind that the baseline and meridian are not straight lines. They jog occasionally to compensate for the curvature of the earth.
Looking up the remonumentation data on the DLEG site (http://www.cis.state.mi.us/rem on) the survey filed December 29, 2003 describes the monuments found near the point of origin (T1N, R1E, Corner A-13)
A. Description of original monument and accessories and/or subsequent restoration:
1. Original monument set by J. Wampler on January 19, 1826, West on
South boundary of Sec. 31; 13.97 Hickory 13” Dia. In Marsh; 31.23 Run
16 Iks wide course South; 36.50 intersect meridian; 14.18 chs (935.88') .
North of post corner of T’s 1N & 1S, R1W in marsh set post, Tam. 9 in S 38" W 73 lks, No other bearing tree.
2. Book 3. Page 70 of the County Surveyors records show a survey by A. Jackson C.S. 011 August 7,1856. Witness: Tam 9" S 38 W 75 Iks; No other tree. Measured 145.6 (2396.46') to C-13, 317r 38L
(6256.67') to A-11.
3. An Act 74 LCAC recorded in Liber 3, Page 149 on July 11, 1974 by Dwayne Scott, PS 12029, notes
"Found pointed stone set Aaron Jackson in 1856. Replaced with 20' dia. concrete monument
with 2' dia. brass cap." Witnessed by S 78" E 31.16' Clump 5 Maple; S 00° 07' 36" W 50.0' conc.
mon. 12' diameter 18' high; S 89° 31' 09'' E 60.00' Concrete Mon. 12" dia. 18' high; S 3° W 42.30'
B. Description of corner evidence found Bild/or method applied in restoring or reestablishing corner:
Found raised 20' diameter concrete pad with brass cap missing. Screwed 2 v," Aluminum Remon.
Cap #28414 to center of conc. pad. Accepted corner as best perpetuation of County Surveyors corner.
Measured 1706.19' to M-12 (T1 N, R1W) See back for further measurements. '
C. Description of monument for corner and accessories established to perpetuate locating the position of the corner:
Found Raised 20' diameter concrete pad, screwed 2 ½'' aluminum remon. Cap #28414 to center,
Found 12" diameter concrete monument S85°W 50.03'
Found 12" diameter concrete monument South 49.94'
Found overgrown Nail East side 9" Poplar and Set Nail and Tag #28414 above N 15° W 17.47'
Found overgrown Nail SW side 18'' Poplar and Set Nail and Tag #28414 above N 45° W 16.08'
Post Number: 73
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 8:25 am: || |
Not to mention that they were originally surveyed in the early 1800s through the wilderness they sometimes are off a degree +/- also some townships and sections dont even close so at town lines there could be some jogs in the lines look at any county map you will see some of the townships are skewed quite a bit in some places if you look closely. Here is a clue surveyors always put the slop in the north end of the townships to compensate any bad work or numbers.
Post Number: 204
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 1:35 pm: || |
The baseline (8 Mile) for Michigan is a few miles south of the Illinois/Wisconsin border.
Error corrections generally occurred at the western side of townships. There were several sources of error--bad measures, inaccurate measures, the convergence of longitudinal lines, etc.
There is an interesting book on this that deals with the Northwestern survey: "Measuring America" by Andro Linklater.
Post Number: 2382
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 2:11 pm: || |
It's arbitrary back during the early 1800s just where the Illinois-Wisconsin line should be. However, back in Beloit, an additional error was created for a few miles until that error was detected but not ever corrected in Beloit. That part of Wisconsin was among the first to be habitated, so that land was probably already deeded by the time of the error was caught afterwards. Illinois' loss was Wisconsin's gain.
BTW, Wisconsin's first railroad ROW comes from that area (Beloit north to Evansville, passing through the rural town of Magnolia where I lived for 14 years). When it was abandoned during the national railroad rationalization during the late 1970s, the farmers where the ROW is wanted their land "back." However, that ROW was so old that the territory of Wisconsin was the deed holder before the railroad and nobody had even lived there when it was laid. So, it's a hiking trail today.
Post Number: 846
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 2:44 pm: || |
Actually, Wisconsin's first railroad ran from Milwaukee to Waukesha and opened on Feb. 25, 1851 (according to the Wisconsin Historical Society)
http://www.wisconsinhistory.or g/turningpoints/tp-017/?action =more_essay
Post Number: 2385
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 2:51 pm: || |
That track dates back to the 1840s and before Wisconsin became a state in 1848. Maybe I can dig up something about it.
It either ran through Janesville--Beloit's big sister city--or through Beloit and north to Evansville--which was a big old-time circus town headquarters way back when (Cole Brothers, maybe? or some such). Over fifty circuses had their start in Wisconsin, including the biggies--one being the Ringley Brothers in Baraboo.
Your reference refers to a railroad, which could be correct also. But this track I mentioned supposedly connected to Illinois, AFAIK, and was probably an extension of some older railroad, probably an ancient part of the Chicago & Northwestern (CNW, now part of the UP) which has another ROW from Madison through Evansville and then pretty much due east to Janesville. This older track (which headed south from Evansville) was essentially abandoned by the CNW, but not officially until the 1970s. Evansville was a sheep herding community once and had the second oldest "department store"--The Grange (a co-op, I think)--in Wisconsin.
(Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 05, 2007)
Post Number: 148
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 2:58 pm: || |
In my 1970s plat map of my Township they actually explain the longitudinal error and the fact that in every Township, the west section line converges on the other section lines as you go to the north, so the area of the Township is always a little less than the expected 36 square miles.
This also explains the jogs in the road in rural Townships as you travel north-south.
Post Number: 75
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 3:42 pm: || |
There are also correction lines that take into account the narrowing of the earth towards the poles. I believe there are 4 such correction lines in the state.
Post Number: 2386
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 3:49 pm: || |
You can see where some of the minor corrections were made in some older parts of cities which have predominantly grid-pattern streets. There was such a jog at the corner where my parochial school was in Milwaukee.
(Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 06, 2007)
Post Number: 285
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 4:51 pm: || |
This is great stuff! Thanks to all the contributors.
Post Number: 1490
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 7:07 pm: || |
You'd think something as fundamental as this meridian/baseline intersection would be more clear but I've learned a lot about the source of the confusion from THE MICHIGAN SURVEY:
quote:There's something about Wisconsin there too.
Michigan actually has TWO base lines!!! How can that be?...
... A surveyor named Fletcher laid out the base line in ranges 3 and 4 east, but his work was grossly inaccurate and had to be resurveyed. In 1824, Joseph Wampler resurveyed Fletcher’s work and laid out the four townships cornering on the initial points. His corners are the ones accepted today. He found it necessary to establish two initial points where the Base Line intersects the Meridian in order to tie in the survey of the lands already laid out east of the meridian....
The figure below [see above link] shows the two Initial Points – Michigan is the only state to have such a perturbation in its public land survey.
Post Number: 20
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 10:47 pm: || |
Thanks for the lessons in geology and history. There is a lot to chew on here. Is there going to be a test?
Post Number: 1496
|Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 11:39 pm: || |
You just took it. You failed.