Post Number: 23
|Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 6:14 pm: || |
My last time in Detroit, a few months ago, I couldn't help but notice that several significant buildings had been rehabbed or were in the process of being renovated, including but not limited to The Kales, Book-Cadillac, Vinton, etc.
I still noticed that several more prominent buildings remain unoccupied, obvious since they remain unlit at night, but there seems to have been progress since I was living there in the 90s.
Does anyone have the numbers as far as commercial vacancy rates on the whole for Downtown Detroit?
How do these numbers compare to five or ten years ago?
Anyone have a complete list of recently renovated buildings or buildings that have been converted to residential?
Any figure for the actual number of structures that remain vacant in the CBD and the numbers from five or ten yrs ago?
Lets define the CBD as the area bounded by the I-75, the I-375, the riverfront, and the lodge.
I realize that a continuous built up area from Downtown to the New Center is desired and is developing as a sort of urban core to the area, but there seems to be quite a difference in building type from the CBD to just across the I-75 expwy.
I'm mostly interested in the numbers for what at least in the past had been known as Downtown.
Post Number: 314
|Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 6:41 pm: || |
here are the major buildings slated for renovation or in the process that i can think of off the top of my head:
Book Tower (not abandoned when announced, but nearly)
Post Number: 441
|Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 10:22 pm: || |
The vacancy rate for buildings open and operating as office buildings is probably at least 40%.
Post Number: 475
|Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 10:38 pm: || |
I find it hard to believe it is that bad the vacanacy rate.
Are Downtown Detroit and Downtown Dallas not tied almost for the highest vacanacy rates? Actually last I heard, I thought Downtown Dallas had the highest vacanacy rates in the USA, with numbers over 20%.
Post Number: 96
|Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 10:38 pm: || |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070131/BUS INESS04/701310326/1017
John Gallagher says it's between 25% and 30%.
Post Number: 5100
|Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 11:40 pm: || |
Something to make clear, office buildings that are abandoned are not counted, I believe, only readily rentable space. So, keep that in mind. That means many of the abanonded buildings that went residential don't reduce the vacancy rate of rentable space.
Another thing to keep in mind, as usual, is the class of office space. I'm sure Class A is doing quite well, but Class B and C must be doing pretty terrible. In fact, most of Michigan's downtown's office space is pretty vacant. I know that downtown Lansing, not counting state space, of course, routinely posts vacancy rates of anywhere from 15-30% overall, and this trend is going to continue.
I don't see downtown office markets rising again for years in Michigan. Though, a healthy downtown isn't contingent solely upon a healthy downtown office market since the use of downtowns have changed. Hardly, though it would be nice.
Post Number: 746
|Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 11:48 pm: || |
75% of offices in metro Chicago aren't in downtown Chicago and downtown Chicago looks pretty damn nice and full. I don't know how to explain that. What percent of metro Detroit offices are in downtown?
(Message edited by milwaukee on February 06, 2007)
Post Number: 5101
|Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 12:27 am: || |
Who are you responding to exactly?
Post Number: 80
|Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 9:05 am: || |
I was talking to an employee at the Penobscot bldg. And he told me that the vacancy rate is up to 40% there from about 20% a year ago. He had a pretty grim outlook about Detroit and the states economic situation. He said he worked there for 20+ years so I figure he knew what he was talking about. He did say that he noticed a number of companies moving recently.
Post Number: 315
|Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 11:35 am: || |
well, in metro detroit, we basically have 3.5 "downtowns"
Detroit New Center (the .5)
think of how big CBD would have been with out all the sprawl!
Post Number: 478
|Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 11:38 am: || |
Milwaukee where do you get your stats? Chicago is one of the most centralized office cities in the USA, with over 50% of metropolitan office space located in downtown Chicago.
It is hardly as decentralized as you make it sound.
Post Number: 9194
|Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 7:04 pm: || |
Depending on the class of the office building. Class A has a low vacancy rate (the last I heard it was approx. 15%) but Class B & C are much higher as one would expect. That of course is due to the ability of these buildings to have up to date telecommunications (IE: Internet, new wiring, etc). I am not sure if parking is included in the classification of buildings and it so then that too would have an impact.
3rdworld is pulling numbers from his ass.
Post Number: 5110
|Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 7:31 pm: || |
Generally, according to loose industry standards, the difference in office classes include:
1. age (1980 and on is usually Class A)
2. type of construction (i.e. steel framed, concrete framed, wood framed)
4. number and/or quality of renovations
5. number of modern amenities
It would be great if someone could compile a list of classes of office buildings. I believe the Penobscot has been upgraded to Class B as has the Guardian. Comerica, 150 Jefferson and the like are Class A. Stott and Book, I'd imagine, are solidly C class, as neither have been renovated for modern usage.
Goat, the downtown office market is very soft in all classes compared to most other cities outside of the state. The office market is pretty bad over most parts of the state city and suburb alike.
Post Number: 5111
|Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 8:01 pm: || |
BTW, some numbers according to Grubb & Ellis for the fourth quarter of 2006 (most recent numbers).
Vacancy Rates (all classes):
1. Troy: 21.2%
2. Southfield: 21.1%
3. Downtown Detroit (CBD only): 32.2%
4. Midtown/New Center: 17.8%
5. Novi: 23.3%
6. Livonia: 21.7%
(Message edited by lmichigan on February 07, 2007)