Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Is The City of Detroit Improving ? Previous Next
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Jcdfde5
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Username: Jcdfde5

Post Number: 30
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 1:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is the budget saying? How come the media does not talk about it?
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11228
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 2:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Same reason they don't talk about homicides unless they are on par to be higher than the year before. Good news on Detroit doesn't sell papers like doomsday news does. Just my opinion.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8275
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 2:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

What is the budget saying? How come the media does not talk about it?



Because the CC numbers and the Mayors numbers are so vastly different that nobody seems to know where the truth lies.
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 82
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 2:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll be coming up over memorial day week for the first time in 10 years. Im excited. As far as "is it improving"? Just depends on who I talk to from there. My friends say "Hell No its not improving" "Just getting worse" but the forum here seems to tell me it is improving (just the Rivefront and casinos and right Downtown). I pray the fourm is more right. Will withold judgment till May.
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Chow
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Username: Chow

Post Number: 351
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 2:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it improving in terms of finances and city services, no.
Is it improving in terms of development and public relations, yes.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 90
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 6:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Chow said it all.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 7:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If development and public relations are on track then finances should follow. Wait a minute this is Detroit we're talking about
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Jmarx
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Username: Jmarx

Post Number: 24
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 7:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about all that talk before of receivership? Is that no longer a concern?
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 443
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 9:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It seems that one can argue that in the long run the development and PR that Detroit has going for it will win over the city's finances and school problems and what not in the long run. Is this not an appropriate assessment?

P.S. Yelloweyes, Detroit's latest improvements are some of the biggest in decades. Many of the development and incentives are untested before and have never been used in the city before. Give them a shot! It is doing better every day.
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Granmontrules
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Username: Granmontrules

Post Number: 19
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 12:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The city is getting better everyday but a lot of people don't want it to succeed and will tear it down when they can. At least the media is finally laying off. It will take time for Detroit haters to lay off as well.
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Croweblack
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Username: Croweblack

Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 4:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The city is getting better everyday but a lot of people don't want it to succeed and will tear it down when they can. At least the media is finally laying off. It will take time for Detroit haters to lay off as well.

OR
some people are delusional because they have invested money in a piece of property or a business and don't want to admit it was a bad move.

The phrase "negative competition" will be used quite a bit in the future. The first fallout will be the hotels. The vacancy rate right now is brutal at best and they are adding how many hotel rooms in the future?
No matter how many tax incentives you give they simply can't overcome the basics of supply and demand.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 29
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 7:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not a detroit hater in no way. I live and work in the city. I'm not in politics or economics, but our city government seems to wast money. Look at all the tax revenue. It would be nice if we could have a couple nice parks for the taxes residents pay.

Is Detroit improving? Hell yes, look back 5 or 10 years ago. It's just that city finances are out of line with all of the new businesses and housing developments. That's what doesn't make sense.
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3657
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 7:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The City of Detroit is improving and has been since the late 90's when downward motion was reversed. It has been two steps forward - one back since, but the motion is up, up, up.

The biggest piece in the puzzle, a vibrant downtown, has been accomplished, has momentum and will continue to blossom.

Now I don't think anyone on this board is so naive as to not realize there are immense problems in many of the city's neighborhoods and miles of downsizing and readjusting in the future. After all, Detroit is still unfairly strapped with the care of the vast majority of the region's poor, disabled, felons and homeless.

However, the recovery and boom of our downtown is not only an economic lift, it is an immense psychological lift. When anyone says Detroit, Chicago or New York the first image formed is that of their downtown hearts. For two decades our downtown with its magnificent architecture lay in ruins and, other than a small fading flicker of life in Greektown, virtual abandonment. It formed a huge blot of the reputation, image and mindset of Detroit and Michigan. I also believe it damaged the image of the American auto industry in the process.

Now downtown is driving an optimism and a 'rediscovery' process. It's exciting, growing, safe [enough] and getting better every year. In terms of culture, entertainment, sports and, yes, gaming there is nothing comes close to it for hundreds of miles around. Our downtown is back and it good for all of us.

The rest of the world is still learning this so our road is still long in the perception game. There are still many who do not know the difference between angel's night and devil's night and that the angels won.
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Croweblack
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Username: Croweblack

Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 8:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A vibrant downtown?
Walk around on a night where there is nothing on at the fox--The majority of bars are CLOSED!


What other city has "vibrant downtown" like that?

You can't tax abate your way into creating a great city.

example:
Property owner A gets historical tax credits, abatements and the whole enchilada in terms of government handouts to build a loft project.

Property owner b does not get any.

What is going to entice property owner B to build the same sort of loft project?

He won't do it because he can't compete on an even scale with property owner A.

Unless everybody gets the same tax credits and other forms of government handouts the city will never recover. They can't give EVERYONE handouts.

The dirty little secret amongst all the developers(besides of course the dumby deposits) is that once they finish the project they are constructing, they just take their tax credits and government subsidized construction profit and walk.

They don't care about the project or the profitability of a project after they are gone.

Does anybody really believe that 2 condos priced at a million dollars a piece were sold sight unseen at the BC?

If there were 10% deposits put down I am sure that those people are associated with the developer.

Which is very smart on the part of the developer if you think about it.

Which brings me back to my original point regarding the hotels. If they can't put "heads in beds" right now, how are they going to do it when the amount of rooms are tripled?

(Message edited by croweblack on February 10, 2007)
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3658
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 10:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Saturday Night in February.

From the Winterfest Thread...

Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 6:36 pm:
------------------------------ -------------------
downtown is packed right now
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Croweblack
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Username: Croweblack

Post Number: 6
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 10:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

touche
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Mike
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Username: Mike

Post Number: 842
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 11:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowell...

Downtown was pack last night as well.

Andiamo, Seldom Blues, and the Wintergarden were pack when I had dinner there at 9PM

Walked, yes walked... from the RenCen to Woodward at about 10PM. Woodward was packed and the tents, ice rink, were packed.

Walked to the People Mover next to the YMCA, not packed, but crowded.

Drove through Greektown at about 12AM, packed as usual.

Last weekend...

Thurs. Saw a show at the Fisher... Packed.
Fri. Jazz at the DIA... Packed.
Sat. Breakfest at the Rink, 15% full at 7 degree weather and 10AM. Body exhibit at Detroit Science Center, packed, very packed, had to wait in line OUTSIDE in 7 degree weather. Had dinner at Atlas at about 8PM, Packed, did not have reservations, had to sit at the bar (still fun).

Moral of the story Croweblack...

Downtown does get packed, and has plenty of attractions. There is just so much space to full downtown that unless your at the right spot at the right time it feels empty. But guess what, Chicago after 7pm in certain areas of their downtown are very dark and empty aslo.

Detroit's downtown is not where most of us want it. But, in any other region, the attractions that exist now are enough to bring people from the suburbs in large numbers. Metro Detroit has a thing against downtown.

Its there, its fun, and its exciting. You just have to want to see it.
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Croweblack
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Username: Croweblack

Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 12:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yep. just as long as "other cities" have bars that are closed on a saturday night.

I was at the twisted tarantulas last night, if you think that a festival can determine the viability of a downtown then come and see the S.C.S. venetian festival. Those numbers would definitely equate with charging $200,000.00 for a condo.

"honey, I love the winter blast"

"I do too, let's purchase a $300,000.00 condo and raise a family here"

"that's a great idea, honey"

come on.........
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 30
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 9:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you don't think downtown has improved vastly in the past ten years then you are DILLUSIOAL!

Not so long ago:
I used to park in empty fields where Comerica park now stands for State Theatre concerts.
Brush park looked like a war zone.
Campus Martus was a ghost town.
There was no "Hard Rock Detroit".
Nobody was even thinking of renovating the Book Cadilac.
The Lions played in Pontiac.
Michiganders had to go to Windsor to gamble.
What now is a classy "Merchants Row" was a wig shop and hip-hop cd shop, but mostly abandon.
I had a friend who said I was crazy to live downtown, he would never. He now lives across from the Compuware Headquarters.

Is Detroit improving? The question may be a to vague for some people (croweblack), who choose to see what they want and ignore the obvious. We will never be Chicago or New York. We are and will be Detroit.

What's next? Major retailers downtown.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 32
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 9:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also from Winter Blast thread:

"I was down both yesterday and today. Today was it was really packed downtown. Nice to see Woodward's sidewalks crowded."

In the past ten years how many times could someone say that in February?
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 319
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 10:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sure it was busy downtown yesterday but it's not consistently busy enough to support a diverse business community like Royal Oak, Birmingham or Rochester.

However,at least people are trying.

What really needs to happen and never possibly could is that every store front on Woodward needs to open at once.

What happens now is that one opens here and there and fails due to lack of business. Mostly caused by lack of other attractions in the area.

If "merchants row" opened up one day and suddenly had the look of downtown Rochester I think people would come and stay.
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 86
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 10:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Glad to hear all the positive stuff! Can't wait to come home. I'll be downtown saturday night May 28th (Memorial weekend Saturday) I know I'll have lunch in greek town and do the casino there then hoping to catch something at the fox or opera house (havent been since just before it closed and would love to see it now). So far I cant find anything going on the 28th anywhere. Gues they havent booked that far in advance. Any suggestions on a good place for dinner that evening? And a decent safe motel downtown (reasonable)?

Ok, Now that I've said that.... I do think Detroit is an awsome city and it will always be my home but.... A lot of people like myself have gotten a lot of black eyes in detroit. I could write a novel on all the shit that happened to me when I lived there. You name it, it happened and most of it was bad. Im not a bad guy folks, I'm a gay guy. How threatening is that? Its gonna take guys like myself coming back (and I don't mean just gay folks) and having a good time in the city and feeling safe!!! People are not gonna come there if their car is not going to be there when they get back, there not gonna come there if they get a 16 guage shotgun stuck in their face, or move there if everytime they turn around their house is getting emptied out. (just a very few of my lifes experience there). When I left if I couldnt get into valet parking and if they didnt have a guard, I wasnt going period! Going to the party store/gas station with people behind bullet proof glass is not the greatest things either.

It will take time for people to get over stuff like this. Im bringing my partner of 8 years home and to be real honest, hes scared to shit. Seriously! (for one, there is no gay community there anymore and most of the gay mags/sites dont encourage you go come there. one site he found said "There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for a gay man to go to detroit, its had its heyday and its gone".). I want to do my best to make him have a great time! I want him to want to come back, but most of all, I want to want to come back! It would take a COMPLETE and I do mean COMPLETE turnaround for me to ever move back. Its important for me to feel safe where I live. (Detroit I want you to prove that to me) Safety is #1. If I dont feel safe there this time, it will be a VERY long time before I come back again. The day I can buy a home on Virginia park and feel safe in my home and neighborhood, will be the day I move back to the D.

Its gonna be a long way back for the D. But sounds like your finally heading in the right direction. (still got my black eyes and still wanna see for myself) LOL, Looking foward to my visit. Hope I see a the great city I love. Not the city I hated when I lived there. If I havent said it before thanks Lowell for this site! it does keep me in touch with home!
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 905
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 11:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yesterday around four-thirty, I observed literal throngs of people coming and going all over Downtown. Watching lots of folks moving in both directions on Broadway, Woodward and Washington was really exciting.

Everyone who was here ten or more years ago can vouch for what I will say about Detroit's progress.

As recently as the late 1990s the sidewalks along Monroe were weed-choked and paved with asphalt. Wooden telephone poles and above-ground wiring were commonplace. The Crowley and Kern blocks were gathering places for blowing garbage and beggars. Walking from the Penobscot, past dirty, seedy Kennedy Square along Monroe to Greektown could seem damn-near adventurous!

Campus Martius was merely a name relegated to the history books - the place was nothing more than an enormous, desolate intersection.

Broadway was weed-choked. The Madison Theater rotted with no hope of future reuse, her retail shops converted into an "adult bookstore". Capitol Theater (Opera House) was a roofless, flooded hulk. Harmonie Park was totally abandoned.

As has been mentioned, what is now the stadium area was nothing more than weedy, sun-bleached cracked asphalt. Brush Park was simply prostitutes and junkies. To coin a Danny phrase: Zombies everywhere.

Washington Boulevard was a dead, deteriorating pedestrian mall. The Book-Cadillac and Statler
smelled like death. The David Whitney was open, but her offices and stores were occupied either by non-profits or retailers really only fit for Eastern Market's Market Street pedestrian overpass.

Grand Circus was a mini Cass Park. Bums and garbage everywhere. Park Avenue was no-mans land.

East Jefferson was all being torn down for "renewal" that most figured would never materialize. If you would have told someone ten years ago that a Staples was going into a brand-new building on Jefferson they would have said, "Yeah, when? In another ten years?!"

Belle Isle looked like hell. There were NO houses, lofts, or condos being built in any appreciable number.

The Civic Center was the only place that was being reasonably maintained, and even then, Cobo's entrance-way was mere asphalt. There was no landscaping - barely any sidewalk! We had Hart Plaza, but only about 1,000 feet of riverview. A bridge-to-bridge Riverfront Promenade was a dream.

Hudson's wasn't just a looming abandoned building - it was a constant question. Think all about what it meant to have that enormous building sit there empty for fifteen years.

There were no casinos. There was no Compuware. The Ren-Cen was fortified and quickly failing.

I could go on and on and on. Woodbridge Estates? You mean the Jeffries Projects? North Corktown? You mean that particularly shitty area between Corktown and Woodbridge?

Sometimes it does seem like two forward, one back, but the progress we have made is real and it continues.
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3660
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 11:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exmo, welcome home. The downtown riverfront will be jumping the weekend you plan to visit as that is the weekend of the Detroit electronic music festival. The best electronic musicians and djs from around the world will be playing on several stages in Hart Plaza. As the time approaches, follow that at the Paxahau site: http://www.demf.com/

For a visual taste of this check out: https://www.detroityes.com/webisode s/2005/03-spring/11-FuseInDetr oitPano.html

Unfortunately, the Tigers will be on the road, otherwise the other end of Woodward would be lit up for you too.
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 1098
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 11:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exmo,

Here's some DEMF video for you, check out Ben Wallace jammin in the background.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =erZtdm5m0c4&search=DEMF
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 254
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 11:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowell mentioned, "However, the recovery and boom of our downtown is not only an economic lift, it is an immense psychological lift. When anyone says Detroit, Chicago or New York the first image formed is that of their downtown hearts. For two decades our downtown with its magnificent architecture lay in ruins and, other than a small fading flicker of life in Greektown, virtual abandonment. It formed a huge blot of the reputation, image and mindset of Detroit and Michigan. I also believe it damaged the image of the American auto industry in the process"--
I was so overjoyed to witness the transformation of much of downtown Detroit. It definitely has become more viable and livable. However, it has a long way to go for sure. Without a major event, I walked along deserted streets hardly seeing a sole. And. that experience was downtown Detroit, not Chicago or NYC. I disagree with the statement that most people think of the downtown heart when imaging or experiencing Chicago or NYC. While in Chicago, I am impresses with its many decent neighborhoods, its lakefront, Wrigley Stadium, etc. In fact, seldom is the actual loop a stop with so much more to offer. And.... NYC---wow--there is so much there that comprises a total picture with the downtown heart being but a small part.
Detroit is a city of homes and wide streets and cars. To try to equate it with NYC or Chicago may be a mistake. It is in Detroit's best interest to keep trying to improve it's quality of life in it's neighborhoods so when one enters it from the burbs or the airport, a visitor feels amazed at the cleanliness and disregards all of those nasty rumors about it. Drive Woodward up to 8 Mile--positive change: yes. But parts are still rather ghastly and without being safely tucked away in a speeding car: ominous.
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Artistic
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Username: Artistic

Post Number: 38
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 12:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The question is; Is Detroit improving?

The answer is YES
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 89
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 12:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that Jefferson Ave is unbelievable it is clearly the most re established corridor outside of downtown in my opinion. Any given day it is busy and there is a lot of activity, new homes and stores and more. A drive down East Jefferson proves a lot to me that Detroit is turning around. The amount of work going on in Detroit surpasses what I see in Chesterfield and MAcomb Twp's even during this economic slowdown. Who would have believed that was possible 5 years ago.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2121
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 12:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry to rain on the parade but the logical question without having to even be in Detroit is how in the hell can Detroit be improving when the state is in the crapper? How can you all expect any of us to buy lowells pr spin when the unemployment, high school graduation and continuing loss of population are still huge problems. Are we really expected to believe Detroit is getting better when rec centers are closed, aquarium shut down and cops laid off?

It don't make no damn sense.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 34
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 1:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Citylover brings up a good question. Detroit's improvements have mostly been in the areas of real estate, food industry and entertainment. Maybe this is a sign that Detroit is really transforming from an industrial economy into a more diverse entertainment, educational, technological, and medical economy.
Once again I feel this thread is vague.
What areas have been improving over the last 5-10 years?

Detroit's Downtown. Yes
Neighborhoods. Questionable.
Finance/Economy. Maybe
Education. Probably not
Culture. Maybe
Social issues. No
Population. Maybe

I provide this answer to Citylover. People are getting laid off and taking buyouts throughout metro Detroit. These people are doing a variety of things, furthering their education, getting new jobs, moving out, and investing in small business & real estate.

How can we say Detroit is improving? Downtown Detroit has become a place where new college grads have decided to locate because of revitalization, culture, and nightlife. This has nothing to do with the struggling auto industry, it has everything to do with quality of life.

High school graduation, loss of population, and the parks have been problems for the past 25 years. As indicated in many threads neighborhoods have lacked behind downtown in improvements.

In conclusion to this rambling post. Most of us in this thread have indicated that the downtown area has improved but the city as a whole has not.
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Blort
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Username: Blort

Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 2:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Downtown is improving in some ways, but it is far from "vibrant". The downtown economy is better off these days, but it still mostly depends on sporting/entertainment/Winterf est events for revenue. You have to start somewhere, but don't be surprised if 5-10 years from now, things begin the backfire. Don't also be surprised if things continue to improve. It could easily go either way.

The city is making several mistakes in my opinion.
- Demolishing many architecturally/historically significant structures, i.e. Statler/Madison-Lenox/Hudsons. Every time I walk by that ugly over-grown lot where the Statler once stood I think to myself "what a great, well thought-out rational decision, this looks much better.......

The same could be said for the Hudsons lot, but at least it looks like they MIGHT eventually build something there. Another bland parking structure perhaps?

- Letting Mr. Ilitch create a Monopoly in the city. The man is not going to be around forever. Lets hope his children have his same business instincts.
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New2theeastside
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Username: New2theeastside

Post Number: 32
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 3:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Having recently lived in Atlanta, I feel it necessary to point out that 10 years ago Atlanta had a little thing called the Olympics.

Now I am sure that most people that have visited Atlanta in recent years would call it a VERY vibrant place. Hell, for black people, it is known as the MECCA. Now if you visited Atlanta pre-Olympic you would have visited a crime ridden, drug invested, run down city with a large airport and a bunch of employer that didn't want to be in the city.(sounds a lot like Detroit). Hell, Atlanta had a section of town called LITTLE VIETNAM because of all the violence that went one.

The 10 years since has brought about a change that is so big that homes in that same neighborhood, Eastlake, now sale for a minium of 200K. But it took a lot of people that believed in the city and a MAJOR event that cause a lot of money to be poured in for infrastructure.

Atlanta public schools, Crime, and every other negative thing you can say about Detroit are still SH*T in Atlanta right NOW. The former mayor of Atlanta was just sent to JAIL for under-the-table dealing he had in office(can't say that about Kwame)But people, even the ones with families, are moving into the city in HUGE numbers.

Is Detroit improving, HELL yeah, despite the weak economy in MI. So if it can do what it has over the past 3 years despite a weak economy, imagine what it will do once the economy improves.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 37
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 3:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Atlanta, that is one city that I don't see get mentioned a lot on this forum. I have felt Detroit has a lot more in common with Atlanta, Cleveland, and St. Louis. People on the forum often want to compare Detroit to Chicago or New York. Finally a comparison that is relative.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 4751
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 4:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

<<<<<<<click on SEARCH SITE (to the left)

When new screen appears,
click CLICK HERE TO SHOW FORUM SEARCH ONLY

check Search by keyword

in {search for:} box type in Atlanta

click Perform Search

You'll get 50 results about discussions involving Atlanta

(Message edited by JamS on February 11, 2007)
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Eastside_charlie
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Username: Eastside_charlie

Post Number: 6
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 10:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

in a word, yes.
in two words, very sloooooooooowy
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 87
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 2:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the welcome back guys. Im not really into techno music, but will be that weekend! Im sure there will be some good jams going on and hopefully partner will like it too. Those pics/videos to me look AWSOME! Cant wait to come home!.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 904
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 5:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Absolutely. And the neighborhoods too. Property values have been rising consistently for years. If property values were going down you could say neighborhoods aren't improving. The improvements of the neighborhoods are most apparent to those who live there though. Outsiders don't really notice the changes which have been HUGE. In many older historic neighborhoods, crime is way down, compared to how it used to be.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2126
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 6:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In a word eastsiddog_ bullshit
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Eric_w
Member
Username: Eric_w

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 7:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good that the Winter Blast went well. Good that Downtown is getting better however the neighborhoods need to improve.Likwise City services,education, etc...... Detroit has to become a good quality place to live.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 45
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 7:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are very few neighborhoods that are improving. There might be a couple dozen that remain stable over the past 10 years. The rest continue to provide section 8 housing and reflect the uneducated victims that live there.
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Croweblack
Member
Username: Croweblack

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 7:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Property values have been rising consistently for years. If property values were going down you could say neighborhoods aren't improving."

Uhhh.... who sets the assessments for the parcels in the City?

Could it be the City itself?

Using high assessments for a self serving purpose?

no way.

Not in this city.

hmmmmmmmm
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Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 906
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 8:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correct me if I'm wrong -

Aren't property tax "assessments" and home sale prices two different things? I mean, yeah, your taxes are based on the value of your home, but what does the city have to do with setting home values?

My property is worth more now than when I purchased it over two years ago. Additionally, every home in my neighborhood is worth more now on the open market than it was two or five or ten years ago. Our community is deemed desireable and the market reflects that fact.
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Croweblack
Member
Username: Croweblack

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 8:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What neighborhood is it?

2 years and it is now more valuable on the open market?

So it has bucked the trend of the whole real estate market in Michigan?

Five to ten years--maybe.

I mean if you go from nothing to X, then, maybe.

People are BLEEDING money from the speculative prices to now.

Sure, other properties are LISTED above what they paid for the property.

As the old saying goes "what they ask and what they get are two totally different things"
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Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 907
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 9:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The neighborhood is Islandview, but it doesn't at all matter. My question was aren't "assessments" and market value two different things and what does the city have to do with setting a market value?

Additionally, a great many regular (non-Historic District) Detroit neighborhoods have indeed gone from "nothing to X". Remember when it was easy to find a nice $50,000 house in an OK area? They are few and far between these days!
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Croweblack
Member
Username: Croweblack

Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 9:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you are saying that you can get $55K for a $50K house then I will admit that I am wrong. The person (idiot) that paid 300k--400k will not get even a 2.5% return on their money(my math may be wrong but whatever).

Now if you are saying you can get 100k for a 50k house then I stand by my statement.
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Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 908
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm saying you can get 100k for a 100k house and that the same house would have sold for 50k ten years ago.

In other words, property values in the city have increased at a much more dramatic rate than in the 'burbs; "we've gone from nothing to X."
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Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2127
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The increase is based on a phantom improvement Eric c.If you check the crime rate( an honest look not bullshit people try to put over on this forum)the schools, the lack of retail i.e. decent grocery stores all over the city, population loss, etc etc you will see that it has not changed significantly enough to justify the "dramatic" increase you speak of.

The reason the suburbs don't have the dramatic change is the expectations are much higher_ they expect and get decent schools and city services.

And what about all the neighborhoods and the continuing decline.....I really wonder about the sentiment of those that want us to believe that Detroit is getting better when so many people i.e. longtime Detroiters still have to put up with so much crap.
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Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3666
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 12:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right CL, my friend, the city of Detroit is totally f***ed. It will never go anywhere, according to you, so everybody give up and move out of state.

Since you have been on this board, and you are one of the originals, you have constructed a comfortable tautology that runs, "Detroit is hopelessly crime-ridden, no city that is crime-ridden can improve, Detroit can never improve."

The only problem with your mantra, that I would guess has been repeated about a hundred times by now, is Detroit is improving and has steadily done so ever since you first put your broken record on this turntable of ideas.

It must be very frustrating to watch things go in a opposite direction of your dire warnings. So who is seeing the phantoms now? Time to come out from under your dark cloud; the sun is shining on Detroit.

Back on topic, one of the biggest subtle improvements downtown is the complete repaving and curbing of sidewalks and streets that occurred prior to the superbowl. It is like good umpiring; it goes unnoticed yet quietly shapes the growing positive experience.
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Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 506
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank You Lowell for saying whats on everyones mind.

As for the increase in property values my parents in 1985 bought a 3br 1.5bth house on Hubbell St. near 7 mile for roughly 30 thousand in 1985. In 1995 when they sold it, it went for 89,000. They bought a house (5br 3.5bth plus an extra lot) in the University District that some month for 125,000 dollars. In 2002 it was a appraised for 325,000 and has been hanging around that total or has dropped slightly likely due to the economic downturn in the state. This increase in property values is widespread through out the city though not as dramatic in all neighborhoods. So Eric_c and Eastsidedog are right.

The improvements in the city are quite obvious to someone who actually lives in the city they arent yet mind blowing yet but they are there. I could list dozens of instances when I have drove around the city and noticed a house or two that wasnt there last year.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5513
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 8:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To me Detroit is definitely improving. Since Mayor Archer brought in the 50% tax deduction for all corporate businesses and and extra 53% tax deduction in the NEZ areas for 12 years. Today we have more lofts, condos, single family homes and hip cool retail. Midtown is getting in best shape luring in more hip cool skinny white kids who dared to go for the action in Detroit night and day scene. Detroit is basically starting all over again from scratch, finding new ways to make the community a world class. I hope the folks in suburbs would appreciate its beauty instead of looking the city a BIG BLACK GHETTO by text.
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Jcdfde5
Member
Username: Jcdfde5

Post Number: 31
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 10:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do see all the improvements downtown. My concern is with the budget. I will be returning to the DFD (from layoff) in May and I do not want to receive a pink slip in July. It seems that the mayor hinges his budget on future land deals and proposals that will never happen. Downtown looks great 10 times better than what I can remember in my short life.

(Message edited by jcdfde5 on February 13, 2007)
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 906
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 12:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Eric_c, the "nothing to X" argument is right on the mark. Those that aren't familiar with the neighborhoods don't see the difference which is understandable. A few years ago I couldn't tell the difference either -- I lived downtown and quite frankly didn't know squat about the neighborhoods.

As another example my house (WV/Islandview) which was once abandoned and sold for $5,000 in 2000, sold for $20k in 2002, $40k in 2003 and has more than tripled since then (and no one put nearly that much work into the house, may $20k tops). Unless you live in a particular neighborhood, or know someone who does, this is hard to comprehend. The big changes at least in my neighborhood, is the drug houses and prostitution were pushed out, and the new development started in Islandview (English Village rowhouses, etc.). Downtown's overhaul certainly created more interest in the area as well.
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Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 909
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 12:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, it's just "phantom improvement"! LOL!
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Yelloweyes
Member
Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 49
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 1:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This might need a thread of its own but Model Media always has interesting articles on Detroit improvements (modeldmedia.com).

The problem is most of these improvements do not get covered by the freep or det news. Thus, outsiders only hear the negative things happening in Detroit. There are so many positive things happening. People who say Detroit is not improving or changing are dilusional.
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 907
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 1:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes it's true Eric_c. I really live in a $5,000 abandoned house. Dammit.
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Jdkeepsmiling
Member
Username: Jdkeepsmiling

Post Number: 191
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 2:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed Eastside, and when I was downtown ice skating with my wife and about 75 other people on a random Sunday afternoon I was skating on a phantom ice rink. That hot chocolate was damn good for being from the phantom Au Bon Pain.
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Croweblack
Member
Username: Croweblack

Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 2:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Wayne County/Detroit area reported 6,653 new foreclosures in January, more than twice the number reported in December. That amounts to one new filing for every 124 households, according to RealtyTrac, an online market for foreclosure properties.

But...

Some houses are now double their value.

Someone should inform the people that had their homes foreclosed that they can sell the house for double its value and not be foreclosed on.

Don't ya hate it when real numbers get in the way of rose colored glasses?
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Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 911
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No one is suggesting one could ever get twice the value of their house! Again, a $100,000 house is still a $100,000 house. Whether the individual who owns it is capable of paying for it or not is altogether different.

That's not to say property values in Detroit have not doubled or tripled in value over the last ten to fifteen years. The houses selling for $100k now are the same ones which sold for $50k before.

If your mortgage from 15 years ago is for $50k and your house is worth $100k now, you damn' well better believe you can sell it and make a profit.
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Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline

Post Number: 708
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Croweblack, the only numbers you have are the gross number of foreclosures. You haven't proven anything about market values. Nobody is saying that Detroit is San Diego or San Francisco when it comes to home prices and appreciation. But prices in Detroit increased steadily or remained flat until perhaps the past six months, and even then, the gains of the past six years or so remain.

Also, your implication that declining home values are the cause of the foreclosure rate is off base. Many of the folks whose homes are in foreclosure have significant equity. They just don't have the cash flow to pay the monthly note.
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Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 693
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe my experience will be instructive: I bought my house in SW Detroit ( one of the most viable areas) 20 years ago for a mere $20,000. The house next door (in perfect, if pedestrian condition) sold in 2005 for $110,000. Big excitement all around. However, those buyers are losing that house because they have an ARM that has adjusted and they can't refinance because they paid more than the home is worth now. They could only get about $85,000 - 90,000 now.

So, I guess that I could get that much, but I paid a mortgage for many years, paid taxes for 20 years,I put an $18,000 kitchen in my house five years ago, an expensive, but historically correct, new porch, a new roof, new high-efficiency furnace, retro-fitted central air, increased insulation, brick-paver walkways,etc. I did all this because I like to have a nice home and also because I want to leave the neighborhood better.

So, I think I have almost $85,000 in my house. So, have I "made money" on my Detroit Real Estate? I think I have kept even (for which I count my blessings) but it is a myth to think that people who bought in Detroit are making a killing (even by Detroit standards).
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Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 235
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 8:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The point nobody is mentioning: Detroit has made this kind of turnaround despite a poor national economy (though it has been getting better) and a horrendous state economy.
Imagine what would happen if we had billions and billions to invest in federal improvements here instead of on, oh, I dunno, a war in Iraq, for example. :-)
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Track75
Member
Username: Track75

Post Number: 2484
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 10:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The point nobody is mentioning: Detroit has made this kind of turnaround despite a poor national economy (though it has been getting better) and a horrendous state economy.

Michigan's economy has been poor, agreed, but the national economy has been doing well and is still doing well. Every time I hear someone from Michigan claim that the US economy is in the tank I shake my head and wonder what warped "news" source they use for their economic information. Please stop, it makes you look foolish.

Back on topic, certain areas of Detroit are trending up. Downtown has not looked as good in a very long time. That momentum will not stop. The "name" neighborhoods are generally doing pretty well, both the higher priced areas and the more middle class areas. Various infill developments offer hope in many areas of the city.

On the other hand, there are many square miles of Detroit where forumers don't live and wouldn't seek to live and these poorer areas are still hollowing out. Residents are moving out, being evicted or foreclosed upon. Crime thrives and policing is sparse. Vacant commercial and residential structures get opened up, stripped and left to crumble.

You can't deny either face of Detroit. Just as there are condos coming online and selling at "suburban' prices, there are banks selling foreclosure homes in one-dozen-at-a-time packages for less than $10K per home.

I'm thrilled to see all the development in the CBD, midtown, close-in neighborhoods and other stable areas but I'd have to be blind not to see that the other 500,000+ Detroiters that live in so-so to truly bad areas aren't seeing any improvement in their Detroit.
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Erikd
Member
Username: Erikd

Post Number: 805
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 12:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good post by Track75...

Detroit is definitely improving in some areas, and not improving in others.

You can find numbers that say Detroit is improving, like the increase in property values and new housing units, and you can find number that say Detroit is not improving, like population loss and declining school enrollment.

I don't think that statistics alone can give us a clear picture of the progress of Detroit.
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Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 93
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit seems to me to be a city that will build up one area and the rest goes down, then when it goes to build up another run down area, the area just built up goes down. Detroit always is "fixing up" certain areas to the decline of her other areas. Just my thoughts.
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Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 521
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think next time in the city for more than a hour ill go around photographing some of the new lesser known housing developments and post them here or on flickr. Is that allowed on here?
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Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 277
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 4:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes, and please do.
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Yelloweyes
Member
Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 61
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 8:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has anyone noticed these new single family homes sparatically throughout the city. There will be abandon house, burned out house, a house hanging on by a thread, brand new construction house, and then back to a burned out house.

What is up with this? Who is building new houses in such ran down areas, and why? I believe they go for about $150,000. Better yet who is buying these homes?
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Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 35
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've noticed several infill homes still in tyvek wrap along I-75 below McNichol,(6 Mile), overpass.

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