Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Old Detroit Car Dealers-2 Previous Next
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 1:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,

Is there any interest in starting a new forum on old auto dealerships in the Detroit area, especially the "independents" like Studebaker, Hudson, Nash, Kaiser-Frazer, etc? I have some photo materials to contribute if others are interested in sharing.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 562
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 7:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you want them posted in chronological order? If so, this might be a good one to start with.

Schneider's auto sales, circa 1903

Maybe Jjaba remembers looking in their showroom window as he rode the Jefferson streetcar between Woodward and Bates on his way out to Belle Isle?
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Jimg
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Username: Jimg

Post Number: 779
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 12:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jjaba probably owned the car pictured in the advert...
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 772
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 1:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was looking through an incomplete list of Studebaker/Packard dealers on the web and it doesn't list a Studebaker dealer I remember on West 11 Mile not too far west of Woodward. Anyone know the name of the dealership?
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 10:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The picture was taken in July 1946 from the balcony/mezzanine of Arron DeRoy Motors, the Detroit MI distributor for Kaiser and Frazer cars at the time. The event was the first public showing of K-F products in Detroit

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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1572
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 8:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Neat photo ,coupe, --though reversed! Aaron DeRoy's widow donated the necessary funding for the construction of the wing to the Dossin Museum. At that time, Bob Lee was the curator.
Those Kaisers and Frasers were unique automobiles. Other than the names, I could never figure out what the real differences were between the two cars to warrant manufacturing two separate vehicles.
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1378
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 9:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I dont think its reversed Rock, its inside the dealership, and those are the windows facing outside. :-)
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 9:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Psip is correct...as noted in the description this was taken INSIDE the showroom. Another photo of the event shows the crowd outside the building, the line running about as far as the eye can see down the street.

As for the Studebaker-Packard question. While I do not have S-P info, I think you could get a list by checking the DETROIT FREE PRESS microfilm files dated around new model year introduction time. Hudson, K-F and other car makers usually gave space to list the names and addresses of the dealers where people could go to see and test drive the new cars.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1573
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 10:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I put on my glasses. Everyone but me is right(again). Admittedly, as I look thru my rear view mirror, and see the guy behind me with his turn blinker on, I am still trying to figure if he is turning left or right.
I do recall that those Kaiser /Frasers were made out at Willow Run. And it was Henry J. Kaiser who got our Liberty Ship program developed in WWII.
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A "dealer of the day" photo...DiCocco's Sales & Service the evening of introduction for the 1953 Kaiser and Henry J.

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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 566
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a circa 1950 photo of Center Line Motor Sales, a Studebaker Dealership operated by the Grissom Brothers. It was located on the southwest corner of Van Dyke and Qualmann Ave, one block north of Ten Mile Road in Center Line, MI.

Center Line Motor Sales

click for larger image
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 981
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MikeM posted the S-P dealers from a 1955 phone book in the original old car dealership thread, click on the 'old car dealership" HOF link at the top of this page and get to work, it's there.

(Message edited by 56packman on February 12, 2007)
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Jrvass
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Username: Jrvass

Post Number: 32
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 1:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember the searchlights when they introduced the new cars! My mom said it was Santa looking for kids that weren't in bed!

Anyone remember Bert Baker Used Cars? Ver Hoven Chevrolet?

James
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3817
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 1:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol Jrv
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14509glenfield
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Username: 14509glenfield

Post Number: 338
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 7:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Searchlights lit up the sky during new model introductions (midSept/early Oct) in the corridor between Houston-Whittier and Outer Drive on Gratiot DEFINITELY.

(Message edited by 14509glenfield on February 13, 2007)
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 991
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 7:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They also soaped the showroom windows at new model introduction time so that you couldn't see the new models from the street. The steady customers got to see the new models a week earlier than the general public. All of that excitement has gone away, new model introductions aren't the big thing, the styles don't change that dramatically from year to year (some body styles last damn near a decade today).
These days they introduce a new model when they finally have it right!
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14509glenfield
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Username: 14509glenfield

Post Number: 339
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 7:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, no photos, but from the HOF thread Rengers on Chalmers & Outer Drive/Promenade..."showcased" Studebaker, International Harvester, later AMC. At my time I loved that Avanti in the showroom.
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14509glenfield
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Username: 14509glenfield

Post Number: 340
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 7:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another two months or so...Introducing the 2008's. Twenty year ago....1987 1/2's. Everything gets earlier.
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 10:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is something with a strange story behind it and I need help to put the pieces together. The photo was taken on the property of a Kaiser-Frazer dealer in what I believe to be downtown Detroit (not from the Motor City so I don't know streets, etc). The tile roof building in the background has a sign "service arrivals" so I take it to be another motor vehicle dealer or a major service garage. There are at least 2 railroad tracks behind the barrier at the back end of the pad. Another photo in the group shows a building just across the tracks and to the right (as you face the car) of the photo. The sign on the building is either "Lauhorn Distributing" or "Laohorn Distributing" but is clearly "Warehouse #2" whatever name the company is. Given the information, can anyone please give me a location (such as the xx00 block of ___________street) where the car would have been parked? If someone can, I can tell you a great industrial espionage story!

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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1380
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 11:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KFCoup, if you can scan those at a higher resolution and email them to me, I will post and link to them from my website.
Psipdetroit at Gmail.com

We really need high res to view the details in the background.
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 2:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Psip, I have sent the highest res photo I can of this image along with the other photo showing that warehouse building & sign.
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1381
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

2 high res pictures of KFCoupe pix.

KF1

High Res
http://www.waltermediaworks.com/detroitYES/kfcar1.jpg




KF2

High Res
http://www.waltermediaworks.com/detroitYES/kfcar2.jpg
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 572
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Could also be "Cauhorn" or "Caohorn".

Notice also the "Centennial(Bow)ling Lanes" on the sign directly behind the car roof, just to the rear of the windshield. Way in the distance is a building with a sign that looks like "J.D. S_ _ _brom & Son". There is also what looks to be like a "Cleaners" sign.

In the other photo, on the building with the tile roof, I think the sign says "service all makes" and it does look like a car dealership.
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Ookpik
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Username: Ookpik

Post Number: 46
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 7:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


pic


Kaiser-Frazer Manhattan

4 Door

2953-1955
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Waxx
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Username: Waxx

Post Number: 26
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 1:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, this brings back some rare memories that I can recall the fewer (now fewest) car dealerships in the inner city and one of them I actually stayed next door to on Evanston and Chamlers in the early 1980s-Raynal Bros. Dodge. My grandmother bought one of the last cars from them maybe a year or so before they closed. I remember Ver Hoven (or is it Hover) Chevrolet on Van Dyke and McNichols-I think that one closed in the mid-80s-but I do remember it being in business in the early part of the 80s. Woody Pontiac on Jos. Campau in Hamtramck-when did THAT one close? It was booming when I graduated from high school in the early 90s. Dreisbach Cadillac on Grand River, 7 Mile and 5 Points-what happened to the Dreisbach family? Don Massey (if I'm not mistaken) owns it now. Dalgleish [I cannot pronounce that name for (crap)-I am curious as to what ethnicity that name is. It is Jewish, Scandinavian or something? It sounds exceptionally exotic-in other words I think it's a cool name-I just wish I could say it] is still in business, James-Martin is still in business, likewise with Ray Laethem (I have a car from them), Jefferson Chevrolet, Conyers (now Maxey) Ford on Jefferson,
the original Bob Maxey Lincoln-Mercury on Mack Avenue including the used car lot where Joe Ricci used to be. But I'm going off track here. I do want to know this, though. What was the name of the Olds dealership on 7 Mile and James Couzens? It closed in the early 90s-I'm thinking '92 at the latest! I used to ride the Imperial Express out in that area. And one other thing, does anyone remember Woods Motors? As far as I know, it was the only import dealer in the city-it's a shopping mall now. Woods (some called it 'Woody') sold Honda, VW, Mercedes, and if I'm not mistaken a few Audis. I think it closed in '90 or '91. Remember Krajenke Buick as well? I think it closed maybe a year after I graduated from high school. I went 2 Kettering in case anyone's curious.
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Caldogven
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Username: Caldogven

Post Number: 18
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 4:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Waxx- I remember Wood Motors very well, I worked in the body shop. We also sold Porsche, and at one time B.M.W. It was a great place to work until we got a new general manager. He cut everyone's pay after which most of the sales and service people left. I left and moved to California in 1977. Before that I worked at Funston Chevrolet body shop on Mc nicholes and Fairport.
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 12:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Before he became one of Detroit's major GM outlets, Clem Rinke was a Kaiser-Frazer dealer. He donated this 1948 Kaiser as a fund-raising giveaway automobile.

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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 3049
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 3:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only listing for Cauhorn Distributing I could find was from 1961, located at 19302 Grand River, which looks to be nothing more than a small office.

I can't find any listing for Centennial Bowling Lanes anywhere except on Gratiot in East Detroit. Just above the word Centennial? is what looks like the bottom of the letters CR___. There was a Crest Bowling Lanes at 12707 Fullerton, southwest corner of Grand River, which also happens to be where a C&O rail line curved westward, just south of Grand River:







In 1961 when the bowling alley was still there:






Maybe the car was parked on the south side of the tracks looking north-northeast toward the west wall of the Crest Bowling Alley?

There was a Crest Cleaners at the northeast corner of the Grand River/Meyers/Fullerton intersection.

In 1946, there was a Henry Bashian Kaiser-Frazer dealership at 12737 Grand River which places it west of Meyers and across Fullerton from Crest Bowling:





What year is the K-F in the mystery picture?
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 580
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 3:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By Jove, I think he's got it!

You can even make out the "Clea" in the Crest Cleaners sign in the distance on the first linked photo.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 3050
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 3:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Appoline Street parallels Meyers, west of Meyers. Looks as if Appoline was not a through street at the tracks. I haven't tried to work out the angles, but maybe the car was parked at the end of Appoline on the south side of the tracks.
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1394
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 4:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My only question is why is it that the king of the West Side didn't speak up and it took a bunch of East Siders to research it out??

Jjaba???
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 998
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 4:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MikeM-It's a 1951 Kaiser
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 3051
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 7:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Packman!

So KFCoupe, now that we found it, let's hear that industrial espionage story.
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 8:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The pictures posted are from Chrysler Corporation's confidential competitive intelligence report evaluating the 1951 Kaiser against Chrysler products in the Kaiser's price range. It gets better...many of the photos in the 1953 Kaiser's report were taken on the showroom floor of a Kaiser-Frazer dealership (you can see the sales posters on the window in the background)!

Those of us in the Kaiser-Frazer club who are interested in this kind of auto history know that Chrysler Corporation (or Ross Roy, Inc) had several "spys" working out at the car plant...they are referred to as sources in various Chrysler memos that I have in my archive. The photos in the various years of intelligence reports covering K-F cars were taken at the same dealership. The only way this could have happened (in my humble opinion) is that Mr. Bashian was in cahoots with Chrysler's corporate intelligence (industrial espionage)people. If this is indeed the case, it begs the question of how many other non Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto/Chrysler stores were pipelines for Chrysler, or were Chrysler Corporation dealers fronting for another car company (Ford, GM, etc)?

Watch for more pictures as time goes by. You can also see pictures of Kaiser-Frazer plant information in the Old Car Factory forum currently running.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1576
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kfcoupe---Maybe you can answer the question I posed earlier----Why both a Kaiser AND a Fraser? I remember both, I rode in both, but I don't know what the differences were in the two vehicles that looked so much alike to warrant two separate vehicles being manufactured.
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 20
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 10:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Frazer was equipped and priced to sell in the upper-medium price range. It started out as a product of Graham-Paige Motors Corporation, and sold through dealers franchised by Graham. The Kaiser car was supposed to sell in the low-price field, but production realities ended up putting the Kaiser only about $200.00 less than the Frazer (in time, the separation in price would grow) through K-F franchised dealers. By the time production for retail sale began in the summer of 1946 (from piece of paper to fully set up production line in about a year...wow!) There were only "Kaiser-Frazer" dealers; you had to take both franchise programs.

In early 1947, Graham sold its auto operations to Kaiser-Frazer. Noting market trends (as did others, like Hudson and Chrysler), Kaiser-Frazer in time discontinued the Frazer (1951 last model year) and actually got into the low price field with the Henry J (started in 1951 model year)...about the same time that Hudson phased out the straight 8 models and rolled out the lower priced Pacemaker series.

I could go on and on (in fact I wrote a nicely illustrated book on K-F history which can be purchased in the Detroit area) but it would take up too much space
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1577
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very interesting and MANY thanks for your insight,Kfcoupe. Come to think about it, I believe I saw more Henry J's scooting around Birmingham. than I did Kaisers or Frazers put together.
A neighbor of ours had a Frazer Manhattan. He was also aboard a Liberty Ship during the War so I guess he had a fondness for Henry Kaiser. Kaiser and Liberty Ships are synanamous.
I asked an fellow-B'ham friend of mine where the local KF dealer was, but he does not recall and neither do I. Maybe it was Royal Oak(?)
Can we at least have the name of your book?
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1001
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's not forget the version of the Henry J that was branded and sold exclusively through Sears store--the "Allstate" (stay with me, this is real history here) It was a badge engineered Henry J with every possible Sears component--battery, tires, floormats--you name it.
You could buy it at Sears and through the Sears catalogue
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 22
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Update on the earlier post. Henry Bashan was the dealer at 12747 Grand through 1947; Skiffingham Motors occupied the building 1948 and later...he would have been the "mole" for Chrysler if we all have the address pegged right. Maple Sales & Service, 314 East Maple was the dealer in Birmingham from 1946-1949. There was also a K-F dealer at 1503 S. Main in Royal Oak 1946-49.

My book, BUILT TO BETTER THE BEST has a lot of photos of factory operations at Willow Run and some of the work done at its engine plant on East Jefferson (K-F took over the old Continental Engines plant there at the end of 1946). It also has pictures of dealers including some from the metro Detroit area (not to mention dealers in Mexico and other points around the world). It may be for sale at the gift shop at the Walter P. Chrysler Museum in Chelsea; IT IS for sale at the Ypsilanti Automotive Heritage Museum on Cross Street in Ypisi (kiddie-corner from the old train station). At this point I am planning on a book signing there the end of April. All profits from book sales goes to the museum.

Oh, on the Allstate. It was only available for sale at selected Sears Auto Centers in selected markets across the South and Southwest; it was listed in the "wish book" but could not be ordered through the catalog unless it was to be picked up at one of the participating Sears Auto Centers. Some 1953 models were given away by Sears as part of a national contest; if the winner was not in one of the selected cities, the delivery went through the local Kaiser-Frazer dealer.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1579
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

314 E Maple---ok, coming back now. We are talking 50 years ago. I think that's between Woodward and Hunter ( that's what they were called in my day,) and I believe that the KF showroom took over what I remember as the old Reo Motors (bus/truck) dealership on the south side of E. Maple. Mr.Albin, who later had "Albin's", a succesful restaurant, deli etc. on Hunter just North of Maple had his first grocery store next to the dealership there when he came to B'ham.
Thanks, Jack!!
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1580
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 4:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just talked with a buddy who remembers a Joe Scoullarie (sp?) who had a KF dealership on Harper at or near Whittier. The plot thickens.
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Waxx
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Username: Waxx

Post Number: 33
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 3:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does any one remember the Chevy Dealer on (West) Vernor and Grand Blvd that would eventually become a Farmer Jack and was razed sometime in the past decade and is now a miniature mall that has a Murray's and a video store? I'm just curious as to what the name of it was.

Speaking of which, what was the name of the Chevy dealer-I think it was a used dealer-on Harper between Kensington and Bishop? My folks bought cars from that dealer in the 80s.
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Oladub
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Username: Oladub

Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 9:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Stay On The Right Track, To Nine Mile & Mack to get the best deal around" was Roy O'Brien Ford's jingo back in the 50's soon after TV's appeared.

We won our first TV from Hanson Chevrolet. Being about 4 at the time, I don't remember if Hanson's later became Shala Chevrolet on Harper.

My grown kids were surprised to hear that men, and their sons, wore suits to see attend new car displays announced with WWII spotlights.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1578
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 9:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wasn't "or get your money back." in that jingle too? (The tune's in my head now.)
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 1:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Detroit MI area Kaiser-Frazer dealers set up this display in late 1949 at Convention Hall for a bottlers convention. The Kaiser Traveler shown was one of a fleet sold to the local Canada Dry distributor.

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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 28
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 3:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The used car lot at Grand River Kaiser-Frazer in Detroit, spring 1951 51-grand river Kaiser-Frazer-Detroit mi.JPG
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Jrvass
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Username: Jrvass

Post Number: 37
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 11:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was Ver Hoven's. Bud Greiner later bought the store from his father-in-law and operated it until he died. Chevy pulled the franchise in consolidation.

Penske used to own the Panion dealership in S'fld.

Dalgleish is pronounced dog-leash. I knew Elizabeth in Jr.-high. Eric Dreisbach too.

I believe James-Martin is now completely owned by Marty Feldman, who of course owns Marty Feldman (run by his daughter) and Jay Chevrolet (run by his son... Jay! Imagine!)

The Rinke's own a lot! Ed Sr. is gone, Ed Jr. used to run new cars (but he must be OLD by now), Fred owns a copy of just about every Corvette from 1953-#004 to the present!

That is a museum I'd like to see again! I haven't seen those cars in maybe 30 years.

James
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 607
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 11:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The Rinke's own a lot! Ed Sr. is gone, Ed Jr. used to run new cars (but he must be OLD by now), Fred owns a copy of just about every Corvette from 1953-#004 to the present!



Here is a Rinke Chevrolet ad from 1976 for you.

ad


text
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Ookpik
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Username: Ookpik

Post Number: 63
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 11:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikeg

After reading that ad and checking my collection - I came up with a Rinke - George Rinke! Apparently, he had an appliance store at 25410 Van Dyke in Center Line. This particular photo was taken inside a Packers Outlet store. I do not know the location of the store but it must have been close to the Rinke appliance store. Interesting that no George Rinke is mentioned in the ad you posted.


p


Larger view:

http://www.geocities.com/detpix/gs2.jpg

Ookpik
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Jrvass
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Username: Jrvass

Post Number: 38
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah... there was a little dispute about #002 or #004 being the "earliest" Corvette remaining. I'd have to ask my father (he had 153/300) about that story. The ad was a little before the dispute was settled. The first few Corvettes were test vehicles and destroyed in stories I heard (after '76).

Restored vehicles can be such basket cases! I'm doing a '96 convertable now. Thanks to last week's snow-storm, the front-clip will be from another car. Hit a patch of ice at 20mph and did a 360 into a truck and telephone pole! He and Ma-Bell were covered under my insurance (no damage); I wasn't!

My father once told a story of Fred Rinke... Dad was in the Detroit Zone of Chevrolet and had a bunch of unsellable medium-duty trucks in a tough "new-car" auto market in the 1970's. Fred said to let him have them, and he would eat the loss on wholesaling to the auto-auction in Flint. Why? Because he knew my father would remember it in the good times to come and send him "popular, profitable" vehicles.

Their word was as good as a contract.

Any chance I can get the large version of the Rinke ad? I'd like to color print it and send it to my father.

jr vass @ comcast (dot) net

Thanks!

James
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Jrvass
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Username: Jrvass

Post Number: 39
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PS. They couldn't sell the '53 vettes in '53!

"Blue Flame Special" 6 cyl, and 2 speed powerglide didn't help!

James
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 608
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The George Rinke Appliance store was located in a building that was built in 1928 and located just south of the Rinke Buick and Oakland auto dealership at the southeast corner of Van Dyke and Harding Avenues. That dealership had been built two years earlier to replace Joseph Rinke's original implement/hardware/gas/auto dealership building.

Joseph Rinke had three sons, Ed, Norbert and George. Ed and Norb worked in their father's dealership and George ran the appliance store.

When GM changed their sales policy affecting dual dealerships in 1948, Ed built a new Chevrolet dealership further north on Van Dyke and Norb ran the Pontiac and Cadillac store in the existing building.

My dad's uncle, Hank Peters, worked for George Rinke for many years. I remember going with my mother to the appliance store as a child and looking at all of the washers, dryers and TV's while my mom would chat with Uncle Hank.

Here is a 1967 photo of Rinke Cadillac and Geo. Rinke Appliance:

rinke appliance


Today those buildings house the Rinke Toyota dealership.
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 30
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 10:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On the Corvette thing..according to items in old issues of AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRIES and MOTOR TREND, The original plan was to build the 'Vette at the St. Louis plant with a metal body. However, Kaiser-Frazer's announcement at the '53 NYC Auto Show that they would roll out a fiberglass bodied sport car got GM moving faster. A "pilot line" was set up at Flint and the first Corvettes rolled out in late summer to company executive's families or "friends" of the company rather than as a dealer order item. This beat the Kaiser-Darrin, however, before the Corvette could be set up so that any dealer could order one for sale to a regular retail customer, K-F (or rather at this point, Kaiser-Willys) already had the Darrin in dealer showrooms and could be delivered to anyone off the street, beating GM to this state of availability.
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Waxx
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Username: Waxx

Post Number: 63
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 12:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dalgleish is pronounced 'dog-leash'.

Thanks, James. I wonder what nationality that name is. Sounds very exotic, but that's just me.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4913
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 2:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jjaba just realized this thread is about him.
So many references and he just never knew.

Ok, Mikem is a Detroit maven. He wanders over here. Foggetaboutit, he's good, ok. We trust him on the Westside.

You want car dealers, ok.

How about Coon Bros. Nash? (Plymouth Rd.)
Woody Pontiac, Hamtramck.
Floyd Rice Ford on Livernois.
Packer Pontiac, Livernois.
200 Stand-alone Olds dealers gone.
Dalgleish Olds-Cadillac isn't Jewish, Cass Ave.
Packard Factory Showrooms, E. Jefferson and another on Woodward.

Yes, jjaba did buy the first Peerless, Dort, Oakland, Ford, Olds, Edsel, and Mercury Zephyr.
He also owned a Locomobile, Marmon, Detroit Electric, Hupmobile, and a Henry J. He bought the first Packard Sun Valley, and a Hudson hornet.
Owned a Steudebaker Lark and a Plymouth Valiant, not to be confused with a Dodge Dart.
Her bought the first two-tone pink DeSoto.

jjaba, Good Night and Good Luck.
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 779
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 7:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I realise this is mostly about Detroit dealers, but help my tired memory here. The "Motor Mile" in Ferndale consisted of:
Falvey Motors (VW)
Floyd Foren Chevrolet
Race Motors (Chrysler/Plymouth, then Edsel)
Falvey Motors (BMC)
Hodges (Dodges)
Northwood Motors (Chrysler/Plymouth) to become
Hodges Imports (Saab/Renault/others)
Higgins Pontiac

There were both a Ford and Olds dealer on the strip. What were they?
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1043
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 7:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jjaba, I know from a Mercury Sun Valley, but the Packman does not know from a Packard Sun Valley.

Merc sun valley
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 34
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 10:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's another old Detroit auto dealer photo.

Harper-Berkshire was introducing the 1948 Kaiser and Frazer automobiles.

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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3709
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 5:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While cruising Van Dyke from 696 to the river last Sunday, I caught this picture of Ver Hoven Chevrolet at Six and Van Dyke.


Ver Hoven Chevrolet Detroit
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B24liberator
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Username: B24liberator

Post Number: 39
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 5:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm glad the all that talk of Henry J's has subsided-- I was afraid my father would rise from the grave to tell me (for the umpteenth time) what a piece of crap it was. If fact whenever he was working on a car (no matter what make) and ran into a problem he'd just say: "You piece of #%@*! You might as well be a Henry J!
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Ookpik
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Username: Ookpik

Post Number: 92
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 6:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


p


Packer Pontiac
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1464
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 6:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Remember when used car lots had all those incandescent bulbs hung over them? They were lit up like the sun.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1595
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 7:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

liberator--You tell you father that my first car was a 1948 Crosley and see what he says about it. (That's assuming he remembers it!!) It made the Henry J. look like a Mercedes.
Crosleys were not even sold through dealerships. You bought it from a catalogue in a Crosley Appliance store along with your toaster, waffle iron and AM radio.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1049
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 9:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember many things about used car lots--the strings of incandescent bulbs at night, the strings of pennant-shaped flags in the summer and mostly the pastel and white 50's cars everyone was trading in on the new models.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 639
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 10:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pennants and strings of incandescent bulbs!

Center Line Motor Sales' (Studebaker) Used Car Lot, circa 1950.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4920
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 2:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can you remember the Livernois Ave. used car lot shacks?
They were tiny little offices center of the lot, with a desk, a phone, and two chairs.
What can I do to get you in a car today and watch you drive 'er off the lot? I'm here to sell cars and help people out!!!

jjaba, Westsider on Auto Row.
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Ookpik
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Username: Ookpik

Post Number: 93
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 9:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


p
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Norwalk
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Username: Norwalk

Post Number: 28
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 11:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have the original bill of sale for my Packard which was purchased at Grosse Pointe Packard on Jefferson. Its still in the glove box. However the car is in winter storage so I dont have the exact address as to where on Jefferson. It was Purchase by an Einer Johnson of Detroit. I have been trying to locate him or any next of kin to let them know the old girl is still kicking.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1600
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 2:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My uncle was manager at one time of that Packard dealership, Norwalk. If memory serves me right, the dealership was just East of the old Ted Ewald Chevrolet dealership where the new Ewald branch of the GP library is now located. The Packard dealership later became an Olds dealership ( Willie Pattmon) and maybe a Ray White Olds dealership, too.
I know that when they tore the building down and removed either the Pattmon or White Olds sign above the front door, you could see PACKARD inscribed in the stone work.
We had a '37 Packard---don't recall much about it, but my father called it "a tank". What year is yours?
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 246
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 2:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Norwalk, not to hijack the thread, but my neighbor has 3 Packards. One is a 1937 Business cope, one is a 1949 Packard, and the other is a 1953 300 series. All in immaculate shape. The 1949 has 95 % original everything. He showed it to us, even let me sit in the back seat. Its literally, NEVER been used. It has an old wooden dashboard. TOO cool. They are such enormous cars, he had to have a special garage, and the 1953 fits tight. Those cars are so incredible. Thought you'd enjoy my story..... Jane
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Tarkus
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Username: Tarkus

Post Number: 274
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 2:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kfcoupe, I grew up around Berkshire and Harper. I always wondered what that building had been. It's still there.
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Norwalk
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Username: Norwalk

Post Number: 31
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 3:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have 1951 "200" Deluxe. It was what they called a "Junior" Packard. It had a shorter wheel base than the "Seniors". It still won't fit in my Hamtramck Garage!
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1057
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 4:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Norwalk--here's how I got my screen name-de-plume

the fitty-six


sold new from the factory showroom/dealer at 574 E. Jefferson

my buddy's '49 is behind mine

Do you belong to Motor City Packards?
http://www.motorcitypackards.com/

(Message edited by 56packman on March 02, 2007)
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Norwalk
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Username: Norwalk

Post Number: 32
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 4:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have been a member off and on. They kind of pissed me off once.
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Ookpik
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Username: Ookpik

Post Number: 97
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 7:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


p


For the Packard guys - I think this is a 1940 Packard.

Ookpik
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 35
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 12:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if you don't mind an interesting Packard dealer story (sorry though, it's not Detroit), two of the Milwaukee WI area Packard stores are worth noting. Krenz-Miller Packard on the city's east side was featured as a "good" example of a Packard dealer's set-up in the book BUILDING WITH PACKARD that the factory put out to present their ideas on postwar dealership design ideas to the dealer network. Packard-Milwaukee, the distributor was just a bit west of Marquette University and when the building was gutted to be the basis for a mini-mart, the Buick dealer's fascade came off revealing the ornate stonework of the original structure including the carved "Packard" above what was once the main entry into the showroom area. I have pics of the gut/disclosure.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1059
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 12:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KFC-bring it, we have a Milwaukee man on the forum who might enjoy it too!
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1601
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 9:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The three Packard dealerships that I recall---E jefferson, Woodward north of the Blvd. and "just east of Renaissance" all had the word "Packard" inscribed in the facade of their buildings.
And, of course, their motto is a fixture in auto lore: Ask The Man Who Owns one".
My cousin out in California has one of the last Packards built. I believe it has stick shift and he is trying to convert it to an "automatic".
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1066
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 12:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's how St.Mary's Packard, 16221 Grand River looked about 14 years ago--all changed now.


St.Mary's Packard
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Drbob7133
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Username: Drbob7133

Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 9:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Douglasm, in reference to you earlier post on 2/11 the studebaker dealership on 11 mile in royal oah was called mcleods
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Drbob7133
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Username: Drbob7133

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 9:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Douglasm, in reference to your earlier post 2/11 the studebaker dealership on 11 mile road in royal oak as owned by george mc leod
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 36
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 8:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all..

It took a bit to find the pictures. I am posting this by request of people on this thread, as it is NOT a Detroit area photo. This is a photo of the front area of the building originally built in the 1920's to house Packard Milwaukee, the Wisconsin distributor for Detroit-built Packard automobiles & may have been a factory owned operation. The picture was taken in 1976 when the building was gutted to become part of a mini-mall. The fascade put up by the Buick dealer that moved in during the late 1950's came down exposing the original stonework.

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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1533
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 9:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

check out this Greater Buffalo Savings Bank branch, formerly a Pierce Arrow showroom,

http://ah.phpwebhosting.com/a/ main/2421/tc.html

with a P-A still in the window
http://ah.phpwebhosting.com/a/ main/2421/ext/image/14.jpg

which, interestingly enough, is a block from Buffalo's Tri-Main center which was build by Ford to produce Model-T's and Model-A's and to sell and service vehicles

http://www.trimaincenter.com/history.html

(Message edited by gravitymachine on March 09, 2007)
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 37
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 9:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Again, for the Packard people, there is a book put out by Packard Motor Car Company, Detroit MI called BUILDING WITH PACKARD. This was the company's architectural guide for Packard dealership buildings and came out between 1941-46 (its scale for service drawings is a Clipper sedan of this period-there is no copyright date that I can find) shows dealers from all over the country as examples. GM, Ford, Chrysler units and other car companies put out similar books, the easiest to find (although few if any such books surface these days)seems to be PLANNING AUTOMOBILE DEALERSHIP PROPERTIES put out by GM in 1948 (you should see the drawings in STUDEBAKER UNIFORM IDENTITY PROGRAM, released only weeks before production ended in South Bend).
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1090
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 10:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KF-is this a book that you own?--would like to see a picture or two.
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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 38
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 3:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The book Packard had was spiral bound; I have only pages (but most of them) and only have seen 2 of these offered for sale ever.

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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 39
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 3:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is one of the pages from the book

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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 40
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 3:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It also has layout illustrations for the whole dealership property like this, and some design information. Dealers were encouraged to fill out a facilities questionaire and send it into the department for comments and architectural assistance. Packard wanted to try and set up uniform building layouts and dump the indoor car storage and used car operations.

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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1094
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 3:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KF-thank you for the scans--I have a small favor to ask; if it's not too much trouble could you send those scans full-size to www.packardinfo.com ? My friend Kevin in Arizona has set up an excellent website for sharing Packard data, especially for new Packard owners not in a club or network. It's very interesting looking at the illustrations in that book, most Packard dealership buildings looked like the older 20's era buildings in the "wrong way" (old way)illustrations, built when Packard was at it's peak. Very few of the modern-style dealership buildings were built.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 3175
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 8:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GravityMachine mentions Pierce-Arrow so I had to throw in this picture of a former Pierce Arrow dealership I stumbled across in San Francisco:


Pierce Arrow San Francisco



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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 41
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 11:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For some reason, Kaiser-Frazer favored night shots of the Detroit MI dealers. Here's Leroy Wilson from the spring of 1947.

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Kfcoupe
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Username: Kfcoupe

Post Number: 42
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 11:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Found out the reason for a lot of night shots. The showroom lighting emphasized the contents while the darkness acted as a filter to shut out the background and give more effect to the dealer building.

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