Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Man With Heater Iced By Cops Previous Next
Top of pageBottom of page

Bulletmagnet
Member
Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 46
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 5:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While traveling through Detroit on Mack Avenue I came upon the fatal shooting of 18 year old Artrell Dickerson outside the Cantrell Funeral Home. Click here if you wish to view:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com /177/392358214_456abfd200_b.jp g
http://farm1.static.flickr.com /181/392358225_e622acce5a_b.jp g
http://farm1.static.flickr.com /165/392358230_4746cba2d5_b.jp g
Top of pageBottom of page

Everydayislikesunday
Member
Username: Everydayislikesunday

Post Number: 302
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 6:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what is your objective by posting something like this?
Top of pageBottom of page

Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1556
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 6:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There was an article in today's paper about this shooting... http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20070216/NEWS01/ 702160346/1001/BUSINESS05
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 611
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 6:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If his pants weren't down around his ankles he might have got away...
Top of pageBottom of page

Al_t_publican
Member
Username: Al_t_publican

Post Number: 165
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 6:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did he make a snow angel before he pasted?
Top of pageBottom of page

Buddyinrichmond
Member
Username: Buddyinrichmond

Post Number: 124
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 7:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're not driving a blue and white '87 Dodge B350 van by chance?
Top of pageBottom of page

Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1304
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 7:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jesus Christ. Could you at least warn us in the post?

DEAD GUY AHEAD!

I'm serious. I didn't really care to see that shit.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1305
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As an aside (now that I'm over seeing the dead guy....) why is it that people always want revenge on the cop? Maybe they did shoot the guy without need. We will never know.

What we do know is that he was running away from the cops (instantly making himself appear guilty) and b) carrying a gun. Me thinks if you're running from the cops and brandishing a weapon that you are far more likely to get shot.

I don't know the cop. I don't know if this was some sort of vendetta, but I do know that with all the gun killings lately, gang fighting, automatic weapons, and the feeling that anyone doesn't seem afraid to pull the trigger on anyone else (not even a cop) that I'd be itchy as hell too on that trigger finger. Can't imagine what is going through the cops head when something like that is happening. The guy turns around and points a gun or even makes any motion like he might shoot, and I can't blame a cop one bit for taking him down.

I don't advocate violence, and I don't know the situation, but this person was doing their job. If you're a criminal, running, and carrying a weapon, sometimes you're gonna get burned.

Nobody deserves to die, especially not at 18. But we all know not to carry a weapon and if you do, sure as hell don't get in a gang fight and then run from the cops.

And jesus christ couldn't somebody have covered up the body with a blanket or something????!!!

(Message edited by Jerome81 on February 16, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

56packman
Member
Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1003
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did you go to the Jimmy Cagney school of 30's gangster-speak?
Top of pageBottom of page

Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4052
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looks like somebody kept it real. Up for Buscemis anyone?
Top of pageBottom of page

Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 499
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting that Bulletmagnet didn't answer Everydayislikesunday's question that I would have asked as well.
Top of pageBottom of page

Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 649
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kudos to the DPD for saving quite a bit of tax money that would have been used to incarcerate this guy.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez

Post Number: 145
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

okay prudes...let's drop the umbrage and think why someone would post the pix. How about this for starters--instead of endlessly debating crime and murders in the sanctity of our anonymous cyber-vacuum, photos like this bring it right up in our collective faces, visceral and ugly and raw, without a blanket, and right outside the window of your passing car. That's what this is all about...400+ times a year. that is, as they say, how that van rolls.
Top of pageBottom of page

Sticks
Member
Username: Sticks

Post Number: 203
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 12:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Couple of things.

1) Did they drag this guy from where he was shot? Did he run back to the spot where he's laying on his back? Seems like there'd be a lot more witnesses if thats where he was shot.

2) Where's the gun? Kicked away once he dropped to the ground?

3) What the fuck is up with cops shooting people in the back? Similar thing happened to an alleged drug dealer in Ypsi less than three weeks ago. Dude got shot in the back running away.
Top of pageBottom of page

Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11274
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 12:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

/quote{3) What the fuck is up with cops shooting people in the back? Similar thing happened to an alleged drug dealer in Ypsi less than three weeks ago. Dude got shot in the back running away.}

The 18 year old had a gun, the police saw the gun, they pursued the guy. I'd love to see just how reluctant people would be to pull the trigger knowing that the guy they were chasing had a gun. If he so much as grabbed the gun in his waist band, that is enough reason to shoot him. You wait until that gun is pointed at you and you'll be staring up at the sky with a few bullet holes in you if the guy has any sort of aim. Do you want officers to wait until they are hit before they return fire?

He had a gun at a funeral, he was running from police, he was gunned down. That means one less wannabe thug on the streets as far as I'm concerned.

Ask yourself this, if the State Police officer that gunned down an unarmed homeless man in Greektown a few years ago didn't get charged with homicide, do people really believe that an officer that guns down an armed man will? Just how much fuckin' leverage do people want to give people breaking the law with an illegal weapon? DPD did their job to perfection in this case as far as I'm concerned.
Top of pageBottom of page

Sticks
Member
Username: Sticks

Post Number: 206
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 1:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SS, you went on a total tangent. One guy didn't even have a gun. Bring it back a bit. I simply asked a wassup wit dat? type of question.

I could be wrong, but it's been awhile since I've heard of two dudes gettin smoked in the back in separate cities just a few weeks apart.

Is this due to lack of news coverage? A change in enforcement policy/style? What?

As a side note, both guys (and one of the shooters) have pictures up on non-news websites. Is this a move to make death more accessible to the masses, a strategy for bleeding hearts to promote rehabilitation, or just a product of a voyeuristic society?
Top of pageBottom of page

Yelloweyes
Member
Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 62
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 9:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I used to live above a funeral home. Nothing this exciting happened, it was pretty dead around there.
Top of pageBottom of page

Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline

Post Number: 715
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 9:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's no way to tell if this police shooting was justified. The investigation will need to sort out a lot of stuff.

On a side note, I found this amazing: TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY PEOPLE were attending the funeral for Dontell Martin, a young man who died so young but who had accomplished so much in his short life as confirmed in the Free Press.
quote:

At the time of his death, Martin had two cocaine-dealing convictions, a motor vehicle theft conviction and a receiving stolen property conviction on his record. He was on probation until 2008, according to the Michigan Department of Corrections.

He was acquitted of a first-degree murder charge in 2002 at a jury trial in Wayne County Circuit Court.

Erica David described Martin as extremely popular.

His funeral program read: "A true meaning of a born soldier."

How does somebody like this deserve the last respects of 250 people? It is truly unbelievable that a career criminal like that can be embraced in death by a community. I guess his past isn't really that big of a deal. I'm sure that he was just a misunderstood young man who really was a good person.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric_w
Member
Username: Eric_w

Post Number: 22
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 11:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Swingline
Using baseball terminology that's a "Homerun".Just think how much more he could have done if he had not died so young?

"And jesus christ couldn't somebody have covered up the body with a blanket or something????!!!"

Why waste good linen??
Top of pageBottom of page

Billybbrew
Member
Username: Billybbrew

Post Number: 237
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 11:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ummm, Jerome, you had to click the links to view the pictures. It told you that you would be looking at a shooting scene. Sorry, no sympathy for that one. But on the flip side, I thought your next post was well thought out and had alot of common sense, as well as a few others. I think it's time for some common sense here (yes, I know that's an oxymoron). If you have a gun and you run from the police, you're setting yourself up to get hurt.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rjk
Member
Username: Rjk

Post Number: 620
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 12:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No matter how rich you become, how famous or powerful, when you die the size of your funeral will still pretty much depend on the weather and how many criminal convictions you have.
Top of pageBottom of page

Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 5524
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 1:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BROTHERS KILLING BROTHERS IN DETROIT RIGHT IN THE GHETTO
Top of pageBottom of page

Gumby
Member
Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1531
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 2:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I charge you to prove that the actions of this officer were justified,



ok here is why it is justified.

quote:

Dickerson was shot as he turned and pointed a handgun at Taylor



quote:

Now, another child is dead, and I don't know why



see above.

I am so sick of these ignorant mother fuckers continuing to excuse the actions of their worthless family members and blaming it all on the cops.

Here is an idea don't take a fucking gun to a funeral and then aim it at a cop if you don't want to die. I say good ridence.
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 408
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 2:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yet, the first question went unanswered. What was the point of posting these pictures here?
Top of pageBottom of page

Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11277
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 3:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sticks,

Didn't mean for it to sound like a tangent, just stating the facts of the matter.


quote:

There's no way to tell if this police shooting was justified. The investigation will need to sort out a lot of stuff.



They guy had a gun, he was shot by police while evading them. Had he been unarmed, it would be a whole different story, but he wasn't. I question why so many at the scene were so quick to toss that little detail out the window and point the finger at the cops. HE HAD A FUCKIN' GUN YOU IDIOTS! People in the hood wonder why their friends continue to die. Had this individual gone on a shooting rampage at the funeral home AFTER the 911 call, then the people there would STILL be criticizing the DPD, as they could have prevented it had they shown up. It's a no win battle for the police in this city, too many people are against them.
Top of pageBottom of page

Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 512
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 3:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Iheartthed, I suppose the thread was started to simply stir things up. People are passionate about shootings/murders/killing especially in Detroit as they should be. My important recommendation is to not over sensationalize this or any similar issue. It is important to talk about and discuss, but there are lot of people out there in higher positions of authority than us bloggers that have a job to do. Their job is to protect the community. Certainly they can make mistakes. As is common with any incident that ends with an officer shooting to kill someone, he will be relieved of his duties while the situation is investigated. In my opinion the most important thing that the community needs to do is understand that it is not our job to pass judgement in any regard.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine

Post Number: 668
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 5:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I think you made a rather good observation there, Charlottepaul.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine

Post Number: 669
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 5:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also... In photo #3, I see a bunch of red caps. Don't suppose there was a gang element hanging around this funeral.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1558
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 5:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think this thread was started solely because Bulletmagnet happened to be in the right place at the right time with a camera. Bulletmagnet, correct me if I'm wrong. Over the last few years I've witnessed a few crimes in progress myself (including cars being stolen on two different occasions), but I haven't run across a person who has just been shot, thankfully.
Top of pageBottom of page

Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 295
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 5:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He was supposedly a member of a gang as well
Top of pageBottom of page

Superduperman
Member
Username: Superduperman

Post Number: 200
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 6:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The red hats really arent relevant when the name of the gang is supposedly "The White T-shirt Gang".....
Top of pageBottom of page

Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1570
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 7:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's the Red Hat Gang.
Top of pageBottom of page

Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 515
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 7:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol. Good find Jimaz!
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 689
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 8:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

White T-shirt Gang? Even the gang names in this city aren't as good as they use to be.
Top of pageBottom of page

Michmeister
Member
Username: Michmeister

Post Number: 111
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 8:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A rose by any other name....
Top of pageBottom of page

Bulletmagnet
Member
Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 52
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 10:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Id like to answer a few questions that were brought up regarding this post. As I have stated in some of my earlier post, my daily travels take me through the streets of Detroit. I like to keep a camera with me as I am very much interested in the changing landscape of the city. This series of photos was pure luck, or being in the right place at the right time. On this occasion I was traveling up Mack Ave as these events were unfolding. When I got home later that day, I had a chance to study what I had. After determining that they were of a topical nature, I felt that perhaps some people might be interested in seeing them. I contacted the admin before I posted to be sure that this would be appropriate. The risk was the wrath of the forums, which I accept. Even in a city rife with crime, one does not often stumble upon it. But if I do, Ill have my camera ready. And Ill keep ya posted. Bullet.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson

Post Number: 36
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 11:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know, I wasn't sure if I was going to post a response on this thread or not because of the nature of the topic. But I felt compelled.

1) The idea behind using deadly force is because your LIFE is in imminent danger. I just don't see how if someone is RUNNING away from you that your life is in danger. I would love to here an explanation of that one.

2) Now by noway am I excusing gangs(as an institution) and the terror that they leave on society each and every day. However, the GANG MEMBERS(the people) are no different than you and I in many respects. Ask yourself why you are the person that you are today. Why you chose the job you did, the college you went to, even the man/woman that you married. If you search your souls you will see that it is a result of your upbringing, your FAMILY, your environment.

Studies have been done TIME AFTER TIME to show that these same young men, if brought up in a different environment would turn out COMPLETELY different.

So before you stand on you ALMIGHTY high horse and pass JUDGEMENT on a young man for making the same decisions many of you would have made if you had the "unfortunate" luck of being born into an environment where you either joined a gang or you got you ASS WHOOPED everyday, think about what you would do. It is the institution, not the person.
Top of pageBottom of page

Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback

Post Number: 241
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 12:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitson, you are truly an understanding individual. Lets hope you keep that compassion when your house gets broken into, or your sister is mugged, raped or shot. I wonder if you will be as understanding when you are shot, attacked or mugged? Will you be this compassionate when you are in a hospital bed with 2 slugs in your gut, holding on to life? Whos going to pay your hospital bill,pay your bills at home, help with expenses,.......maybe, the thug that shot you?

You can say what you wish, its truly your right, but theres 2 sides to everything. How many stories do you read of the same enviornment, where the kids make it. The individual leaves home , works hard, works to put himself/herself thru college and makes it. They then inturn, trun around and help out in their community thru mentor programs and putting back into the community

I accept your opinion but I disagree. Your opinion seems to validate what they do, it makes excuses. Why would he be above the law, yet the rest of the country isnt?

I have a druken father who was abusive to us when we were children. Does that allow me to break the law, to disregard others because of how I was raised? Is it OK for me to carry a gun and run from the cops when they tell me to stop.

Seems many think that its OK to run from the cops. The law says when a person is told to stop and obey the officer, lots choose not to. That is an offense. If a cop says to stop, Y0U STOP.....Period, you comply with the officer.

I guess as long as people continuosly find reasons NOT to follow the law, incidents as these will only continue. Thats why laws are written and passed. Jane
Top of pageBottom of page

Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2174
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 12:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please cite those studies. And exactly how in the hell can a study predict the future?.
Top of pageBottom of page

Milwaukee
Member
Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 865
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 12:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I am so sick of these ignorant mother fuckers continuing to excuse the actions of their worthless family members and blaming it all on the cops"

I agree Gumby.

I do feel bad that a life was wasted.

How did you get those shots, should you have taken them? I wouldn't like it if somebody took a picture of a dead family member of mine and posted it for a bunch of vultures to look at.
Top of pageBottom of page

Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 657
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 12:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

1) The idea behind using deadly force is because your LIFE is in imminent danger. I just don't see how if someone is RUNNING away from you that your life is in danger. I would love to here an explanation of that one.



Well, let's see, for one thing he HAD A LOADED GUN IN HIS FUCKING HAND. It's funny how you left that little insignificant part our of your post. So, that's one "life-threatening" thing for the officers right there. Two, it is possible to run away and still point a gun behind you at the people chasing you. Do a little experiment for me, stand facing forward, now take your right arm and extend it behind you as if you were pointing a gun at someone chasing you but keep your body faced forward. See, it can be done! There, I have just answered your question for you.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson

Post Number: 37
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 1:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Warriorfan:

Well, let me ask you this. As a police officer I am only "supposed" to fire my weapon when my LIFE is in danger. If I am chasing a suspect that has a gun, he is trying to GET AWAY not kill me; let me ask you this, if the police were chasing that same suspect in a car, that car caused the fatal injury of another motorist, would you be making the same argument. At some point, the "chase" has to stop, you do GOOD police work, find the suspect again, and put him into custody ALIVE. If the police KILLED every suspect they took into custody, they a lot of GREAT people would never have gotten the opportunity to fulfill their destiny.

Citylover:

Ever seen the movie Changing Places. The fact that you post a response like that says that you believe that the kids born in those environments are just bad from birth and that their environment has NOTHING to do with their outcome in life. If you are telling me that the way YOU turned out in life has NOTHING to do with the environment you grew up in, than I will buy your argument. BUT I DON'T THINK YOU CAN.

Janesback:

My house has been broken into. I do have friends that I grew up with doing time for murder, rape, assault. I did have the opportunity to make bad decision in life. I chose a different route, in LARGE part because I have a FAMILY that love me and taught me about making good decisions. These kids don't have that, in fact the GANGS are the only FAMILY they have. Could you imagine growing up in a place where your FAMILY murdered, assaulted, and robbed everyone. Could you imagine you DIFFERENTLY your life would have turned out.





Look I AM NOT MAKING EXCUSES for these kids. In fact I said that in my original post. I am just SICK AND TIRED of SOME of the people on this forum passing judgement like they are GOD. And like they weren't 1 or 2 bad decisions for being in the SAME situations as some of these kids.


AND NONE OF YOU HAVE ANSWERED MY ORIGINAL QUESTION. ARE YOU A PRODUCT OF YOUR ENVIRONMENT OR NOT?
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1715
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 2:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

ARE YOU A PRODUCT OF YOUR ENVIRONMENT OR NOT?


This is not a yes or no question

quote:

people on this forum passing judgement like they are GOD


Who doesn't judge? If someone is running from police they are making a judgment about the police. If police shoot a fleeing suspect they are making a judgment about the suspect. If a group of people support the officer and another group of people want to prosecute the officer both groups are making judgments about the officer. Such judgments are more commonly called opinions and have their basis rooted in personal beliefs. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and expression thereof, within the bounds of law.

This forum is at best a court of public opinion and often times is a great example of why we have a defined legal system instead of mob rule.

Be grateful the positions you disagree with are confined to a message board instead of being acted out on the streets - God acts through everyone everywhere often in ways we don't understand - maybe you should ask Him why this happened.
Top of pageBottom of page

Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100

Post Number: 501
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 2:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll make this quick. The environment doesn't necessarily mean anything. Look at Grosse Pointe. You might think that it is very clean because of its reputation. Think again. Many people that act normal around here could actually be on drugs. I can think of a few off the top of my head. Remember, there was a huge drug bust in EEV a year ago that involved a couple of Grosse Pointers.

And speaking of movies, if you trust them so much, go get "City of God." It's about a guy who grows up in the Rio Di Janeiro slums and turns into a world famous photographer. But then again, why do you put so much stock in movies?

And are you really a police officer? Or is that just your opinion. Remember, there is the risk of human error in all of these jobs.
Top of pageBottom of page

Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 659
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 3:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Warriorfan:

Well, let me ask you this. As a police officer I am only "supposed" to fire my weapon when my LIFE is in danger. If I am chasing a suspect that has a gun, he is trying to GET AWAY not kill me; let me ask you this, if the police were chasing that same suspect in a car, that car caused the fatal injury of another motorist, would you be making the same argument. At some point, the "chase" has to stop, you do GOOD police work, find the suspect again, and put him into custody ALIVE. If the police KILLED every suspect they took into custody, they a lot of GREAT people would never have gotten the opportunity to fulfill their destiny.




Were you there? How the fuck do you know that he wasn't pointing the gun at them? Big fucking deal he was trying to get away, most criminals do, and many criminals think that they might have a better chance at getting away if they kill the police officers chasing them. How the fuck can you sit there and say that these police officers weren't in fear for their lives when YOU WEREN'T THERE and YOU DON'T KNOW what happened. You criticize others for making judgements "as if they were God" and that is EXACTLY what you are doing to these police officers. Hypocrite.

And where are you getting all your information on police procedure and rules of engagement from? Your many hours of watching "Law & Order?" You don't know what you are talking about. It doesn't matter if he was running away, if at ANY POINT he raised that weapon, he was fair game and the law would agree.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 650
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 3:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who cares about whether we're products of our environment...if a thug is pointing a gun at you, he's no less of a threat to you whether he's the product of his environment or not...

The cop knew this guy was armed at the very least right before the chase, and had every reason to act as though the guy was still armed...had the guy shot back at the cop and killed him during the foot chase, the fact that this thug is the product of his environment doesn't make the cop any less dead...

so wtf's the point of this discussion?

PS: "City of God" was a totally sweet movie.

(Message edited by thejesus on February 24, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Superduperman
Member
Username: Superduperman

Post Number: 206
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 3:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So he was running away,pulled his gun out,took aim while running away and was shot in the back two times........sounds like a suicide. Seriously though I bet you anything he was trying to toss the gun,it makes no sense to turn a federal gun charge into a police murder charge(which is what he would have been charged with if caught with the pistol),it wasn't as if he was in the commission of a felony. Most people I know in the streets would be trying to get rid of the gun,not have a shoot out with the police.
Top of pageBottom of page

Goat
Member
Username: Goat

Post Number: 9240
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 4:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It sure does. If you are carrying a gun that is illegal and you run from the cops, pull the gun out regardless if you are going to throw it away or not, then you get what you deserve. How do the cops know if he is going to throw the gun or not?
I liken this to natural selection.
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 428
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 4:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How exactly do you aim a gun at someone behind you if you are running in the opposite direction?

"You might think that it is very clean because of its reputation. Think again. Many people that act normal around here could actually be on drugs. I can think of a few off the top of my head. Remember, there was a huge drug bust in EEV a year ago that involved a couple of Grosse Pointers."

LOL. Half of white collar America is on drugs. And these folks didn't grow up in the inner-city, nor will they ever be ostrasized for what they do. If anything they will make America more compassionate to drug use (which is already happening, btw).
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2635
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 4:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

LOL. Half of white collar America is on drugs.


Sources? You seem to be a bit lacking in reputable sources...
Top of pageBottom of page

Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100

Post Number: 503
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 4:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I plan on seeing City of God soon. I only know what it's about because I've read the back several times. And even w/out sources, I happen to think Iheartthed is right. That's just my opinion though.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 691
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 4:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can point the gun behind you and fire right?. It's not that hard to do.
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 429
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 4:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Sources? You seem to be a bit lacking in reputable sources..."

My own two eyes. Take it or leave it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1718
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 4:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

just switch gun to other hand

not while running, but back also exposed

(Message edited by lilpup on February 24, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 430
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 5:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A quick Google search pulled this:

"The last issue of Pulse Check addressed "club drugs" as a special topic because of increasing reports that a wide variety of illicit drugs were being used and sold, mostly by white youth from middle to upper SES groups, in nightclub and rave settings."

http://www.whitehousedrugpolic y.gov/publications/drugfact/pu lsechk/midyear2000/clubdrugs.h tml

That was 2000 btw, so those kids in question have since gone to college and become the white collar "young professional".

"Among both high school and middle school students, upper SES adolescents are more likely to become depressed and use illegal substances than are their lower income counterparts (Luthar & D'Avanzo, 1999)."

http://www.findarticles.com/p/ articles/mi_m2248/is_158_40/ai _n14815096

Though neither of these do any justice to what I've personally witnessed.
Top of pageBottom of page

Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2176
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 5:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is hardly evidence of anything nor is what you have witnessed.

The truth is there can never be a true accounting of drug use because people lie about it. I tend to believe and this is just my opinion that those that think they know how much drug use there is base it on their own drug use.Of course I am not implying that anyone is using drugs.But most people don't use them with any regularity.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2637
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 6:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Twenty years ago I was talking with a Benton Harbor resident attending the University of Wisconsin. He estimated that 90% of all Americans were in jail or prison based on his experiences. His evidence was that 100% of his friends and relatives back home in his neighborhood were imprisoned!
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 431
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 6:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eh, whatever.

It's kinda funny that I was just having this conversation with a co-worker (a white male from an upper middleclass suburban community in NJ) and we were both recounting experiences where we witnessed it. He doesn't use, to my knowledge, but we both found it ironic how common drug use is among white collar young professionals. He even talked about how common hardcore drug use was at his college in NJ. I know that X, Coke and who knows whatever else is flowing at the old Umich. Not to mention perscription drug abuses of things like Adderall.

Whether you want to believe it or not, who cares? It doesn't change what it is. I've seen both sides of the spectrum from ghetto to suburb. I know everybody does dirt, but what I have witnessed is that the hardcore use is a lot more prevalent in the upperclass than is publicized.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1721
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 6:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

not much publicized in the news media, perhaps, but check out websites for professional organizations and you'll find quite a bit of discussion - attorneys and medical professionals have some of the highest rates of abuse

it's just that the street trade is easier to see and smuggling busts get more publicity than the business conducted indoors and the losses from hospitals and pharmacies
Top of pageBottom of page

Ohudson
Member
Username: Ohudson

Post Number: 195
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 6:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Iheartthed, are you implying that the dirt done in the burbs is the same as the dirt done in the hood? I would much rather have neighbors high on X as opposed to one carrying a gun and using it.

I'm sure that murders are much more publicized than drug use for a reason. I can say no to drugs, but I would sure love to see you try to say no to a armed robber....

This isn't even a case of apples and oranges, it's fist vs. guns.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1724
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 7:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

your naivete is showing Ohudson
Top of pageBottom of page

Ohudson
Member
Username: Ohudson

Post Number: 196
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 7:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you look at drug use by young professionals I believe this isn't publicized because it isn't attached to other crimes as much. Young white collar professional can support the drug habit with white collar pay.... vs. the crack head having to rob, steal and hustle to get the next high so there is always another crime attached.
Top of pageBottom of page

Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100

Post Number: 506
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 7:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Still, either way, it's drug use.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ohudson
Member
Username: Ohudson

Post Number: 197
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 7:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

True, drug use is drug use but I thought this thread was about gun use...
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson

Post Number: 38
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 7:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Warriorfan:

Never ONCE did I past judgement on the police officer. The job of an officer is one of the hardest in the WORLD. There are good cops and bad, just like in any profession. They have to make life and death decisions in a split second EVERYDAY. Whether or not this is one of those times a bad decision was made is up for debate, BUT IT IS NOT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

To say "Kudos to the DPD for saving quite a bit of tax money that would have been used to incarcerate this guy" IS passing judgement. To say that THIS life is any more or less important than another IS PASSING JUDGEMENT.

And no, I wasn't there, but you WEREN'T EITHER. But it just doesn't make sense for me to be running FULL OUT trying to get away. Then stop, or break stride to fire at a police officer who is chasing me. You are the one that is watching too much television. It just doesn't work that way my friend. TRUST ME. Like what was stated earlier, it is more likely that he would have been trying to toss the gun, than shoot the cop.

Now, I have answered your question. Will you answer mine? If yes or no, where the only choices you had(and it IS that simple), would you say that you are a product of your environment? Are the beliefs and decisions you make EVERYDAY based on how your were raised.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1725
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 7:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

raised in the same household - two on heroin, one a pimp, one an NBA executive

obviously not purely environment
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson

Post Number: 39
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 7:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lilpup:

You JUST proved MY point. There is always an exception, I am not doubting that. But out of 4, only 1 is an "upstanding citizen"?????. It HAS the be the ENVIRONMENT. What happened to the other 3.

I am sure that people will come up with story after story about that 1 PERSON that made it out. But it is kinda of like crime in the suburbs, "it happens, just not like it does in the city".

But if the numbers are staked up, I am sure it would be just like your example, about 75% DON'T make it. Whereas, 75% of kids raised in loving, caring environments do make it. And at the time of birth, the only difference between the two children is who they go home with.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1726
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 7:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no it doesn't HAVE to be the ENVIRONMENT - there are possible genetic issues, too
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson

Post Number: 40
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 7:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, if it is genetics, than that is even more of a reason not to pass judgement. Isn't it?

LOOK, I am not saying these kids aren't bad, I am not saying that they don't deserve to go to jail. What I am saying is that many of us, given the same circumstances would be in their shoes. So from that stand point, they DON'T deserve to be shot in the back, and their death(as do all people) deserves to be respected.
Top of pageBottom of page

Schoolcraft
Member
Username: Schoolcraft

Post Number: 102
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 8:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Environment may be the reason. NOT the excuse.
Big Difference.
Deja Moo=
The feeling that you've heard this bullshit before.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson

Post Number: 42
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 8:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not saying it is an EXCUSE.

Just saying don't be so judgemental.

Just saying take some time to volunteer so these kids can see some other successful male figure besides than the local "D" Boy.

Just saying thank GOD that you didn't get mixed up at the hospital or maybe that GOD that you "did" get mixed up at the hospital!!!
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1727
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 8:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

some would be in their shoes, I wouldn't say many

they don't deserve to be shot, nor do the police officers dealing with them, nor do the innocent bystanders who are so often the victims of their behavior

the definition of respect has been badly warped by some

the kid's family and friends should feel sorrow, perhaps frustration

the police officer should, too

but hate and anger have no place here and should not be tolerated on or by either 'side'
what's done is done
learn from it, move on, and try to contribute to the community in a positive way
Top of pageBottom of page

Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2178
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 8:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry to burst your bubble Iheart but for the umpteenth time your observations and your friend and cousins observations are just that observations. One could easily and I mean very easily find people that have never taken drugs, never smoked reefer, never taken ectasy or cocaine or heroin........never done any of it...... so am I to conclude that no one does drugs or that there are no drug users among young white republicans or middle age black real estate agents?.......of course nor.

As I said before and as a former serious drug user getting people to tell the truth about their drug use is futile. And only those ivolved , exposed or on the fringe of drug use believe they know how much is being used.Most people just don't do it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1728
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 8:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ongoing study with stats: Monitoring the Future

(Message edited by lilpup on February 24, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100

Post Number: 509
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 9:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What else were you "Just saying" Detroitsfirstson?
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitsfirstson
Member
Username: Detroitsfirstson

Post Number: 43
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 9:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excuse me, I don't quite understand what you are asking Scs100
Top of pageBottom of page

Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100

Post Number: 510
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 9:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, since your last post had every sentence with the exception of the first start with "Just saying," I was wondering whether you have any more sentences that start with "Just saying"?
Top of pageBottom of page

Superduperman
Member
Username: Superduperman

Post Number: 208
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 12:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is reported by the news and police to the public is never as accurate as some of you think,if any of you all were ever involved in something that had to do with law enforcement and it was reported on the news you would know what I'm talking about.
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 432
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 9:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I used to work on the MTF study...
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 433
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 9:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another difference between urban/suburban drug possession/use/sentencing is that urban drugs usually have much heavier penalties than suburban.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.