Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 8 Mile Road Question? Previous Next
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 8:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, don't know if this has been asked. What is the history of the street, how did it come about and most of all, could someone give me the background of the signature power lines that stretch along it?
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 172
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 8:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It came about because it lies along the principal East West Base Line for the Land Survey System in Michigan. It is also 8 Miles due north of a point in Campus Martius which is the central monument of Augustus Woodwards downtown street system plat. The mile roads lie along section lines each spaced 1 mile apart which is why the roads exist. I know this was linked before but wikipedia explains is quite well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8 _Mile_Road
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M ile_Road_System_%28Detroit%29
As for the power lines I think it was a wide enough area to run the lines in a densly developed cooridor.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 641
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 8:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also some information in this archived thread:
https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/91697/92937.html
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623kraw
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Username: 623kraw

Post Number: 928
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 8:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is (was) the survey point in Campus Martius?
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 642
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 8:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Coasting the Base Line
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 174
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 9:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The survey point is a point of origin which all land measurements are based on downtown. It is a known location to locate your particular plat. Since there were no section corners in 1805 as the US land system did not come for some years later they used their own monument which they set at Campus Martius the center of the downtown street plan. You can still see it as they have it well marked and you can look through glass and see it. When they were working there a few years ago they hit it. A monument is usually well placed and anchored in well, this one sure was because it was placed there in 1805. It had been years since it was seen or used. You can go see it at Campus Martius now!
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 65
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 10:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com /169/407404622_5d6b13f019_o.jp g early photo taken by Abe Linkon
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Oladub
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Username: Oladub

Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 11:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A committee, chaired by former surveyor Thomas Jefferson, proposed a rectangular survey system in the Northwest Territory, with boundaries that ran north and south, east and west. French farmers had farms perpendicular to the Detroit River. The base line had to be established north of the French farms. Draw the line across Lake Michigan and it is the border and baseline of both Illinois and Wisconsin.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2665
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 12:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Draw the line across Lake Michigan and it is the border and baseline of both Illinois and Wisconsin.


Just how far into Lake Michigan does that state line run?

Most people never notice, but there is a border with Canada for Wisconsin. But, it's somewhere in Lake Superior for a short distance.
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 178
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 12:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have looked at a few maps and it does not seem that the base line is the border for Wisconsin and Illinois....I noticed it before I will have to research it a bit more...
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 523
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 12:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard, you are incorrect about the Wisconsin boarder comment. Minnesota is actually North of Wisconsin and Michigan at that point.

(the boarders layer in Google Earth helps to illustrate this)

It's strange to think that part of Minnesota is geographically more East than part of Michigan but it is true.

(Message edited by DetroitSTAR on March 02, 2007)
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4923
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 12:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Baseline Rd. is a county divider as well all across Michigan. Baseline ends at South Haven, Michigan and takes over as State Line of Wisconsin, but about a couple of miles North of Detroit's Baseline.

That line ends in Dubuque. So, with backside to Lake St. Clair, look west and try to see Dubuque, Iowa.

For further info., ask Marshall Mathers.
jjaba.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3717
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 1:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Detroitstar about Wisconsin not touching Canada.

And the reason is because Michigan's Isle Royale National Park is actually closer to both Canada (the town of Thunder Bay) and to the very tip of Minnesota (Grand Portage), than it is to the Keewenaw Peninnsula.

In fact the Rand McNally Cosmopolitan World Atlas that I am looking at shows that where the border of Minnesota and Ontario go into Lake Superior, the Michigan (water) border appears to be only about 2 miles out in Lake Superior from that point.

Either that is an error, or a very surprising revelation. Can someone else confirm or deny this via their atlas?
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Oladub
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Username: Oladub

Post Number: 15
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 3:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan's Base Line began near the latitude of 42 degrees and 30 minutes N, which is the boundary between Oakland and Wayne Counties, north of Detroit, and ran due west to Lake Michigan. (This line even ran across Lake Michigan to become the boundary between Illinois and Wisconsin.) http://www.profsurv.com/archiv e.php?issue=90&article=1265

Michigan's baseline, was surveyed by Alexander Holmes. Although regulations governing the U.S. Public Land Survey System would later specify that the baseline should be a true parallel of latitude, this was not the case in earlier surveys, including the Michigan survey. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M ichigan_Meridian

The Wisconsin/Illinois base lines and border similarly vary above and below 42 degrees and 30 minutes North. No GIS mapping then.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1630
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 4:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Recent related thread: https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/91697/92937.html
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Soulhawk
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Username: Soulhawk

Post Number: 286
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 4:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The power lines are electrical transmission lines. They carry 345,00 or 120,000 volts from Northwest station, which is located on eight mile near the Southfield freeway, to various sub-stations in the surrounding area. At the sub-stations, the voltages are stepped down to distribution voltages, such as 13,200 volts, and then the current is sent out on typical back-yard type power lines to residential or business districts. A few years back, Detroit Edison was made to sell almost all of their transmission lines to a company named ITC.
Just a side note, if one of those towers ever collapsed onto eight mile, we would have a major disaster on our hands! Think about how bad it sucks to get poked with 120 volts. Now, think about how dead you would be if your car was struck by a line carrying 120,000 volts!
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 5:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's also sub-station at Hoover and 8 Mile, Moundish and 8 Mile and Kelly and 8 Mile.
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1489
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 5:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I seem to remember an Edison field engineer telling me the 8 mile line were 500,000v and they were working on raising it to 750,000v.
Those lines are fed from the lines that run along side Hoover up to the St. Marys plant.
They don't look like it from the ground, but the insulators holding the lines are almost 6 feet long.

(Message edited by PSIP on March 02, 2007)
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 3135
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 6:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Soulhawk is partially correct. The power lines carry power from the Northeast substation on Eight Mile between Sherwood & Mound, east to the Erin substation in Eastpointe on Kelly Road, a few blocks north of Eight Mile, and west to the Lincoln substation in Royal Oak, following Eight Mile then up the GTRR tracks east of Woodward. These are 120kV lines, however the Erin substation was recently rebuilt and so the voltage may have been upgraded at that time, although I guarantee you they are not 345kV or 500 kV as the towers and clearances don't meet the standards for those voltages(the highest voltage lines within the state are 345 kV).

The Northwest substation is usually fed from the Quaker sub in Novi near 12 Mile and Haggerty, the Evergreen sub, corner of Evergreen and Schoolcraft, as well as the Northeast sub, although that may indirectly through the Lincoln substation.
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1490
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 6:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An interesting paper on the 2003 Blackout.
http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/media/a rchives/documents/Blackout_Sum mary.pdf
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3725
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 6:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This was an urban legend, (and discussed in another thread 2 years ago)... but as a kid in the 1960's I was told that the power lines on 8 Mile (and those going up thru Warren & Sterling Heights between Hoover & Schoenherr) were there because south Macomb County didn't want to be the location of the new Detroit Airport, once the determination was made that Willow Run would not be the metro airport. And instead Romulus was chosen.

Again this was an urban legend in the mid 20th century, which IIRC was debunked in an earlier thread in 2005.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 7:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds a bit obscured. That legend can't be true. I'm sure anyone in this day and age would want an airport. They do have better economic opportunities. Also, weren't the power lines there before the new airport came around?
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 180
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 8:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Warren was one of the sites considered for an airport for the region in the 40s or 50s or whatever it was. I always did find it funny that the lines run along just the Detorit border except for the 1.5 miles of Redford from five points to Inkster rd.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 34
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 8:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, isn't the real border generally around .05 miles south of 8 mile? I believe the address of the CVS in 8 Mile and Gratiot is in Eastpointe.
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 181
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 9:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is the most in correct thing I have ever heard that CVS is definately in Detroit!
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Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 35
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 9:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Then something's not right, although I did see a map where the actual border was below 8 Mile. Also, I saw it somewhere that the CVS as addressed in Detroit. Maybe that was the old one and wasn't updated.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 3137
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 9:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The proposed airport location in Warren (the first of several sites proposed) was at the northeast corner of Eight Mile and Dequindre. This was in 1943. The first set of power lines which run south through Macomb County to the Northeast substation were built ~1922.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4924
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 12:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne Major Airport, the site of Metro Airport, is a very old air field. When this replaced Willow Run, it was ALREADY an airport. nothing had to be invented and the vacant land was available.

jjaba.

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