Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Kwame commiting the "Sin" of real leadership. Previous Next
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 590
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 2:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The news had this interesting article online today. Reading this I wonder if the city does need a change in the political party from Dem to Rep to actually get something positive done? Its worked for NYC with their two Republican (admittedly RINO) mayors since 93 and I dont see why it wouldn't, if necessary, work for us. Though I must say I am pleased with Kwame as of late, lets all at least give them man props where it is due.


http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070312/O PINION03/703120365

Daniel Howes

Kilpatrick sheds Dem blinders in new vision

Who has absconded with the mayor of Detroit?

Instead of the high-tax, Big-Government-loving, public-spending, labor-subservient municipal potentate of yore, Kwame Kilpatrick is peddling a new economic mantra for Detroit that he wouldn't have breathed just a few years ago -- and his fellow Democrat, Gov. Jennifer Granholm, couldn't even comprehend. (rest of article at site)
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5202
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 3:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not so trivial as simply changing a D to an R, it's something more meaningful like a policy change. You'll have people swear up and down that Kilpatrick is your typical "Big City Liberal" but he's been anything but in practice, and this is just the latest example of that. Kilpatrick is a lot more conservative-minded (fiscally) than anyone gives him. I may be a liberal, but policy should be dictated by reality and circumstance, and, right now, Detroit needs to be much more conservative, fiscally. I think Kilpatrick realizes that, but, it's the council still clinging to the Old School economic ideology that they really can't afford to keep hanging on to.

(Message edited by lmichigan on March 12, 2007)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2743
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 3:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would you rent or buy a city from this guy? Or trust him with large sums of public money?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5203
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 3:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you ever have anything to offer these type of discussions beyond petty shit like this, Livernoisyard? Get f%ckin real, already, buddy. I don't even have to click on the link to know you're offering nothing than your predictable smart-assed quips. You're a leech and a cancer to discussion and debate. Either offer something of worth, or get the hell out of here.

(Message edited by lmichigan on March 12, 2007)
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 591
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 3:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I honestly think fiscal conservatism is needed not only in the city but throughout the state as well, (the country also for that matter), whether a party change is going to bring this about or not is uncertain. But I am certain that we do need a leader who is willing to realize that desperate and radical measures must be taken policy wise to ensure our survival as a city and state (hopefully me in 20 years).

This I think is a step in the right direction, honestly when was the last time we heard a Democrat mayor out of Detroit discuss cutting taxes and questioning the effectiveness of public schools? Next thing you know hell be privatizing city departments, eliminating property taxes, and screwing the unions hahaha.

LY, you are seriously a one trick pony. Stop Trolling.
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Haydenth
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Username: Haydenth

Post Number: 209
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 7:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A little bitter, LMichigan? Relax dude, it's an online forum.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 670
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 8:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are those running for the mayor of Detroit on the ballot for example ascribed parties (D) or (R) next to their name. I thought that they were non-party affiliated.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6500
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 8:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At 3:21am, Lmich manages to get into one post: sh*t, f*uck, cancer, ass, leech, h*ll.

And this is what remains after editing in only 5 sentences.

Must be a picnic to live with.

Kwame can make noise, but all action will stop when he runs into the brick wall: unions.

But kudos for trying.
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Islandman
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Username: Islandman

Post Number: 375
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At 8:48 am, Karl uses the word trying for a millionth time at the end of a post. What does he win!

The rest of the world "tries" while keeps "doing". What that is the world will never know.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6502
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And at 9:02am, Islandman equates 6,500 with 1,000,000.

Public school education?
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 772
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good on Kwame.

Granholm needs needs to hear the same drum beat at the door.
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Yvette248
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Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 451
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"At some point we've got to stop having the same conversations and start doing something radically and revolutionarily different."

Somehow anyone with a good idea to do something different is labeled as a Republican? or a Conservative? I don't think so...

Granholm has proposed new programs to dramatically shift our state from the old-economy manufacturing base to a highly-educated, high tech economy. Yet the "Republican, conservative" nay-sayers are stuck in the mantra of things that haven't worked for the past decade - stubbornly blocking any attempts at progress by pandering to their base.

Their philosophy is "who cares if this state is going to hell in a handbasket, as long as our base keeps getting tax breaks and other corporate welfare, that's all we care about.

Let's hope that now CITIZENS show leadership and pressure politicians to do what needs to be done to turn this City and this State around!
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1068
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doesn't Daniel Howe or any of the posters here vote or pay income taxes in Detroit?

A couple of elections ago there was a huge vote to float bonds to do this same purpose. Until recently, my City of Detroit income taxes were dropping at a rate of one-tenth of a percent per year. The property rate was already dropped for those living in more of the fancy neighborhoods. In addition, many of the new condo developments are already being propped up with special tax breaks for owners.

This is nothing revolutionary, nor is it partisan. I'm waiting for Tuesday night's speech before I make judgement on this next thing.
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Islandman
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Username: Islandman

Post Number: 376
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl,

That's right. Graduating class of '88 at Cass (same as the mayor), and Bates Academy before that. Sarcasm is lost on your feeble mind.

I didn't need to go to private school to validate my sense of self worth, perhaps you did?

To keep on topic, I am glad that Kwame is finally concentrating at the job at hand.
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Yvette248
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Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 452
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitplanner, you are actually going to wait for information before making a judgment??? How dare you! Get the hell off of these boards!!!

:-)
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Romanized
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Username: Romanized

Post Number: 218
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is thirty years worth of data that says what your doing isn't working. By saying its time to think radically different, Kwame is doing a great service.
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Genesyxx
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Username: Genesyxx

Post Number: 687
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not so much turning over the city to Republicans, but turning it over to COMPETENT PEOPLE!
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6504
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yvette, if by "corporate welfare" you mean taxation in line with other states to keep corporations here? If they leave or are sickly (as they have been) an uprising by the citizenry isn't going to help much - unless that citizenry speaks up against bloated government and fat union contracts.

Good luck doing that in Michigan.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2544
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 12:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmm I don't think Kwame ever supported tax hikes, and he's always been pro-business. I think this piece identifies the fact that I've said for a while: Kwame is going by the book when it comes to urban economics, and he's getting more adept, as his latest plans imitate a budget scheme Philadelphia used...he is also being counseled by an investment bank.

No Kilpatrick will ever become a republican, but I agree with Lmich's first post.
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Lvnthed
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Username: Lvnthed

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 12:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl, In your quest to paint UNIONS as the #1 enemy to big business, have you ever stopped to think of the overall benefit's they bring to all hourly workers.
In your world, michigan should be a right to work state, free from unions and their corrupt leaders.
Well, here is a few things that I want you to chew on.
Yes, UNIONS are a bit overbearing.

But, compared to all the good that they provide for the working man, the flaws are minute at best.
Have you ever thought about the consequences of no unions? Well i'll tell you. Every worker in this state benefits from unions. They keep most manufacturing and service sector jobs at a decent, near living wage, as well as safe.
Don't you know that once these companies eliminate unions, they won't stop. They never do. They will turn on you, and with no protections, they will demand and cut and demand and cut, until we the worker has nothing. No money, no coverage, no honor. But you will have your Guns an the Top 2% (shareholders) will have there dividends.

Ignorance is bad; willful ignorance is a travesty!

You and LY need to know that this city and region are a diverse and welcoming area, worthy of all the praise it has received.

Your negative rants will not dampen my resolve in promoting the POSITIVES of the city. We, CITY and SUB, Have a stake in this revival, and we will not be detoured.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5208
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 12:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, Mackinaw. Kilpatrick's never been a "tax-and-spend" liberal. In fact, he's much more toward the center (ideologically) than either of his last two predecessors, and it's just what Detroit needs. The obstructionists that want to run "business as usual" aren't in the mayor's office, they are in the council chambers. The Coleman A. Young Municipal Center should be running on a skeleton crew with the predicatment the city is in.

(Message edited by lmichigan on March 12, 2007)
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Michmeister
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Username: Michmeister

Post Number: 130
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 4:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Considering the financial shape of the city, the last thing we need is playing the party politics game. D or R, who gives a shit? The ship is sinking and they are polishing the brass railings, and the other party is bitching that they should be using their polish. It is time to mobilize the troops and march on city hall and make sure they, the elected officials, get up off of their fat asses, and start working together. Until then, nothing will happen because they are not getting the message that the people (their bosses) are fed up.
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Granmontrules
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Username: Granmontrules

Post Number: 42
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 7:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the mayor has come a long way. I am impressed with what I am seeing. My guess is he is a young man and we all want a legacy of some sorts. I hope his legacy is a revitalized and reborn Detroit. That would be a win for all of us.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 231
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 7:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michmeister -

Although I agree with the spirit of your post, their is no "R" in Detroit, at least in terms of political affiliation. The mayoral election in the city is between 2 liberal Democrats and the one who hates the suburbs more and plays the race card better wins.

That said, I think there is some merit to what Kilpatrick is trying to accomplish, he seems to realize that reducing taxes can be a good thing which is a pro-growth strategy. Like everything, its all in the execution though...

(Message edited by perfectgentleman on March 12, 2007)
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 2117
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think one big difference between Detroit and the State is that the State has already cut things to the bone. Any more cuts at the state level will result in lowered services in critical areas. Nearly every person I've every spoken with at the state (and I interact with several departments regularly) are very professional, very competent individuals with way too much on their plates. Somehow they manage to keep all the balls they are juggling in the air.

Detroit however has yet to cut a lot of the fat in city government. There are numerous unions that protect lazy, incompetent workers. Too many staffers are plain rude and would have been fired a long, long time ago if they were working in the real world.

There are numerous upper level managers that seem to think that they are above talking to citizens, let alone their own front line workers. Several upper managers seem to also think their positions are a place of privilege deserving of fat cat lifestyles on the city's dime.

The tax rate is way too high and the schools are a mess that have yet to get anywhere close to hitting bottom. Even an avowed liberally will admit to these things.

So I think it's high time that KK start getting serious and making unpopular and/or hard decisions. I don't think it has anything to do with political party. It has everything to do with having a well run, well managed, efficient city government with the number one goal of serving the best interests of its citizens.
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Granmontrules
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Username: Granmontrules

Post Number: 43
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bvos - It is very well known that the mayor has laid off over 5,000 workers and he negotiated settlements with the unions that have never been done before. Those concessions included a 10% pay cut for one year - all union workers were required to take a day off a week called DOWOP (Day without pay). All managers and appointed personnel took it the previous year. This was a cost cut that was negotiated with the unions. There has also been cuts and concessions in health care. How do I know? My sister is one of those workers.

I think he has gotten serious. This was done over the last three years (even when he was runnig for re-election) before the auto industry started getting more serious.
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 2118
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even though your sister was involved with the cuts you've listed it's still not enough Granmontrules. I'm a municipal employee for another city that is in rough shape financially as well (I'm still a Detroit resident, your neighbor to the west in Rosedale Park) but they would never allow any worker to do the things that I've seen and experienced from too many Detroit city workers. They'd be fired in a heart beat regardless of their union standing. An the union would likely support the firing of the worker over rude or lazy service.

Not all workers are bad worker downtown, but there are far too many that make dealing with the city one of the major factors for folks wanting and having a good reason to leave.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 604
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can I say something completely racist for once? African Americans will never elect a Republican to Detroit Office.. I have NO clue why.. BUT no matter what fool was in office.. the city in the tune of over 80% voted Democrat in every election for the past 2 decades.. is that a racist comment really?

For whatever reason is the "now" issue with ole elephant party, african americans for the most part always vote Democrat.. I never understood.. can someone please enlighten me.. since I can't see a single thing the demo's have done better than the reps for the african american race..

(Message edited by digitaldom on March 12, 2007)
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Granmontrules
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Username: Granmontrules

Post Number: 44
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Digital - Maybe it is because Republican policy typically takes a dump on african americans.

Bvos- I agree with you. Not all city employees are bad and not all are good and yes the unions make it hard to make changes. Trust me in my family it is dicussed. However, the mayor has taken the right steps to correct the legacy of hiring that he inherited from Archer/Young and previous administrations that failed to downsize as the population shrank.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5210
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Digitaldom, you have to be kidding me. The GOP lost almost all African Americans when they decided to welcome the racist Dixiecrats with open arms into their party, instead of banishing them from their party, as well, to die away like should have happened. That unholy union costed them, as it very well should have.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 607
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Granmontrules.. how is that different from the Democratic party? Really? How have they ACTUALLY helped african americans in Detroit? really they promised the world.. and give NOTHING...

Lmichigan - I need to research that post to come up with a response on that one.. because honestly I don't know.. What are Dixiecrats.. please elaborate on what you mean.. where can I find information on this.. I truefully asking because I want to know..
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1687
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dixiecrat
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 2119
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wikipedia is usually a good place to learn about lots of things. Here's a great description of Dixiecrats:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D ixiecrats

Digitaldom, while the Dems may not have delivered anywhere close to what they promise in campaign speeches, they haven't f*cked up Detroit like Engler and his other Mackinaw Center neocon pals.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2550
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That may be in the GOP history but dixiecrats are hardly something that should form a characterization of Republicans today. They really aren't integral.

There's no reason the east-coast adaptation of Republicanism shouldn't be acceptable in Detroit, but the reality is, it won't come to power because of the racial overtones the previous posters have made clear (however false and irrelevant these may be today) and because, if nothing else, that modified form of Republicanism is equated to elitism and economic commonsense and that could never take off in a union/union-mentality city.

With this having been said, with the possibility of liberal east coast Republican Giuliani coming to power, and with a likely fracture among republicans over immigration, globalization/outsourcing/prot ection, and over some social issues, perhaps a new, big-tent Republican party could have a successful Detroit adaptation.

The point that neither Republicans or Dems do much for inner cities and for blacks these days is pretty damn true, though. As far as I can see our own governor, who won on the backs of Detroit voters, craps all over them by doing far too little to help the city. She does not back up her rhetoric at all. This is a suburban nation and millions of democrats are in the suburbs, too, and it's these "normal" people in the suburbs that most politicians cater to. Seriously, when do they ever talk about inner cities in DC let alone Lansing?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5212
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw, to believe that the Dixiecrats haven't poisoned much of the Republican ideological well is ridiculous. Their may not be many (or any depending) Dixiecrats left, but a lot of their ideology has seeped through the party and poisoned it, and is still very much alive in the so-called Grand Old Party. African Americans have every reason to see them as the greater of two evils...because, they are.

Sorry, but Trent Lott's gaff not even that long ago shows how much influence they continue to have in the party, even through death. Couple that with the other major turnoffs you mentioned (i.e. elitism) and it's easy to see where the aversion for the party comes from within the black community. Again, sorry, but the Dixiecrat ideology IS NOT history, as it should be.

All that said, the right Republican in disguise could very well win the mayor's office.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 612
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is exactly my point Mackinaw.. The Dixiecrats.. were in the VERY far past.. It's unfortunate that people still hold that the party is still supporting that sort of BS..

How did Engler exactly screw up Detroit.. I really want to know to be honest.. I am trying to learn here.. I am learning to be a tour guide for Detroit and I am trying to get a whole world perspective here on both sides of the issue.. Because I believe in Detroit Becoming GREAT again!

I am not a Detroit basher no matter what you think.. but I am trying to get a level perspective on both sides of the issues here.. And put a positive spin on things..
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2110
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 10:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't it interesting that Livernoisyard never posts after someone has called him out like Lmichigan did? I'm with you on this one, Lmichigan. Livernoisyard is a sour-pus whose only contribution to this forum is to irritate others who care about Detroit. And why does he bother? If he's not dogging the teachers, or dogging the casinos, then he's dogging the mayor.

Why won't you, Livernoisyard, respond to those of us here who think you are a negative Betty who just loves to troll, leave your negativism, and then run like a frighten little girl when folks challenge you to support your claims?

Livernoisyard, go back to Wisconsin, and if you're already there, then find the Wisconsinyes forum an gripe about Wisconsin. You have no credibility to speak on any subject here. Do you care to comment on what I just said or as usual, Livernoisyard, are you just going to ignore my challenge and run like a scared little girl like you usually do. Livernoisyard, you are pathetic.

(Message edited by royce on March 12, 2007)
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 355
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ignore him and he will go away...

thats what I do with about 1/4 of the forum anyway...
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 2121
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw, it may be history but that's exactly why it's such an obstacle for black folks to even consider a Republican idea: it's a known, documented thing that happened against people just a generation or two before you (or against you if you're a senior citizen).

I've yet to see any prominent Republican apologize for the recent racist history of their party nor take a position/track that shows they have any intentions to take a different track. The fact that the neocons are still trying to hold on to the last shred of power they have in the GOP and that many prominent GOP leaders are allowing them to do so doesn't show me the GOP has any new ideas.

I think what's really amazing to me is that the GOP was actually started with abolitionism as a major plank. When Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation it made the GOP the defacto party of black folks and every black politician in America.

Now it's the Dems who are the inclusive party and GOPers who are the rich, white man's party.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5214
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Digital, the VERY past?! This happened in the 1960's. My grandparents still remember this, and my parents were children, and many of the people that voted this Dixiecrats in again and again to offer resistence to desegregation are STILL alive. lol

Still, again, read my post. They poisoned the party, and it can still be seen to this day. To pretend they didn't have a profound influence over the party and its policy is ridiculous, and the denial that keeps things from being healed. It would be different if this was just blissful ignorance, but this is a chosen ignorance.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 614
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well are the democrats any different really? I ask this question again? Clinton, Kerry, and MANY more were from VERY wealthy families.. How is that in ANY way shape or form relating to the black community..

The point I am making is.. both parties are the same.. look at the history of both.. and guess what you find elitism on BOTH sides..
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 701
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good points. The state and city can't be compared in terms of taxes. Detroit's workforce is more bloated and over compensated. It one the reasons taxes are much higher than surrounding communities and services poor. Detroit simply can't afford enough people to do task effectively. The city likely could afford to put more cops on the street by privatizing many other departments

As for Granholm craping on Detroiters, maybe she could've done more if she wasn't stuck with a GOP legislature that was more determined to work against than with her. She wasn't writing the city out transit bills to pit on cities against each other. Or suggesting that a fix it first road policy or giving older cities preference in browndfield credits was socialism.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5215
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you seriously think that the GOP is the better of the two parties for blacks, I'd like you to explain that to them, because the GOP has yet to make a good argument. If you're not able to make the blatant distinctions between say a Clinton and a Bush in how they connect with the black community, you're either not looking hard enough, or, again, living in blissful ignorance.

In essence, what you're saying is that blacks have no good reason to see Dems as the lesser of two evils, without making an argument for the GOP. In other words, you're saying almost all black voters are irrational, and I resent that. That you're 27 and still this confused about who is the lesser of two evils for black Americans shows me how much further we still have to go.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 615
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan your taking this personally and that was not my intention.. I was looking at history and the fact that african american vote for a majority democrat..

On the flip side you as well have not given a good reason why african american should continue to vote democrat either? that was my point..

The irony is.. Now a days neither party reflects the interesting of the people they try to represent be that demo or rep...
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Bearinabox
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Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 120
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bill Clinton was NOT from a wealthy family. Just thought I'd set that one straight. Carry on.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 616
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Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He was part of the skulls and bones was he not? And how does an average guy afford yale? There are many sites relating to this.. But I have to look into the actual history to see what's real and what is not..
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5217
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Digitaldom, I gave you a reason. You have shown that you don't like the reason. That's not my fault. Sorry. The Dems are the lesser of two evils. It really is as simple as that. I'm really clashing with your speaking-before-you-think attitude. If you're genuinely curious, you'd listen more.

BTW, Clinton, being a smart kid, paid his way through college with scholarships.

(Message edited by lmichigan on March 12, 2007)
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8508
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a little side note. In Erma Henderson's book there is a sad/funny passage. She was a volunteer/supporter of the Republican party when she was younger. She saw it as Abe Lincoln's party. She attended a rally/meeting I believe in Chicago. When she and her peers got there they were not allowed to enter through the front door since they were black.

Her comment on it was something along the lines of "I realized that I could no longer be a Republican"

Kind of off topic but I thought it would make sense here.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 617
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Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok.. well I guess you are correct that public opinion does weigh alot these days..

Lmichigan I am just one that looks beyond public opinion and tries to see what this person has actually done.. and I agree with you Clinton on the outside did appear to do more.. but is that really the truth..

I am trying to understand outside of public opinion.. what ALL the leaders of both parties have done.. NOT just bush and clinton have done for african americans.. I just want to know..
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8509
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dom - I think the major difference is that between apathy (Dems) and intentional dislike (Repubs). Look no further than our current leadership. The repubs have proposed things such as ignore roads where people don't want to live (inner ring and Detroit) and build roads where people want to live. Yes, actual proposal floated around. Granholm went with a fix it first plan. That certainly helps Detroit much more than the Repub plan.

Repubs have also fought and attempt at researching possible redlining in poor/black areas.

Repubs have been very negatve with mass transit and went so far as to pull metro Detroit out of a bill to allow counties to tax themselves for mass transit. It didn't levy a tax but gave people the option to vote on it. Mass transit certainly helps areas with more population density and more lower income folks (Detroit, inner rings).

I will take apathy over direct dislike. It is unfortunate that those are the choices but if you look at the State ranking Repubs they are certainly anti-Detroit.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2551
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bvos, I really don't think this is an important point, but to play devil's advocate, why shouldn't the democrats have to apologize for their sins, which include being the party of defending slavery, and then the party in support of segregation until the 50s-60s.?

The Republicans have many faults. I'm no orthodox republican, and I feel that many of the people who vote for the same people I vote for do so for the wrong reasons, and have some sick and twisted ideas. Still, as little connection as I feel to that party these days, I will not allow someone to characterize them as the rich white man's party. Nothing could be further from the truth, and it's impossible to prove that they are run by white rich guys to a greater extent than the dems surely are.

I agree with the point that a republican in disguise could easily be mayor of Detroit. I really think social views are null and void when it comes to local politics; all that really matters is practical/economic views. Kwame might be on track to evolve into a Republican in disguise. Who knows?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5218
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Clinton didn't just appear more comfortable around blacks. That's an insult to him. He was recognized for what he was, genuinely what you call "good people" and an Everyman, and blacks connected with that. They saw, and continue to see, that he wasn't just putting on an act around them. This was a man that memorized Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech, as a young man and obviously took it to heart. Quite frankly, this was a man on the right side of Civil Rights, mentally, when it came.

This is in comparison to say, the Bush's, who are visibly uncomfortable around blacks, and who actually did grow up with silver spoons in their mouths far removed from hardship.

(Message edited by lmichigan on March 12, 2007)
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 240
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Digitaldom, Bill Clinton was in Skull and Bones and went to Yale, but he was not from a wealthy family. His father was a salesman who died before Bill was born. His mother remarried a car dealership owner. He went to Yale because he was an extremely good student.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5616
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 7:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh well! KING KWAME did his best. Let recievership do the rest.
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 780
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 8:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I've yet to see any prominent Republican apologize for the recent racist history of their party"

______________________________ ___________________
Nor have we seen Bill Clinton apologize for raping that black chick.

He's the real deal L?

He is a facade. A creation of his own puffery.

We will not see Republican representation anytime soon in the city. So we deal with it and move on with the lesser of evils that are presented to us.

If KK want's to reduce taxes thereby encouraging business development, which of course will help all races within this black/white centric city...God Bless him!
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2114
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 12:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Irish_mafia, Clinton raping a black chick? Out of what source did you pull that out of, your butt? You may not have liked Clinton as president or democrats in general, but that comment is a serious form of libel.

(Message edited by royce on March 13, 2007)
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Yvette248
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Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 453
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 12:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The beginning posts of this thread really showed mostly "real world" debate of the issues, problems, and potential solutions for getting this region out of the financial quagmire that it is in.

I agree totally with the previous poster who stated he "doesn't give a d@mn if its Republicans or Democrats" - we only have ONE government. Let's stay focused.

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