Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Hotel Vermont Previous Next
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 12:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now officially slated for the wrecking ball. (for yet another surface parking lot?) Haven't been able to find a pic of it. Anyone?
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1437
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 12:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kind of a funky, cool-looking old residential hotel. Too bad it couldn't be rehabbed.

(It's probably horrible inside, though.)
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 233
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 12:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where is it at?
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Dialh4hipster
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Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1949
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 12:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where is it?
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Bobj
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Username: Bobj

Post Number: 1764
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 1:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it behind the Fox?????????
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2481
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 1:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's on the north side of either Columbia or Elizabeth behind the Fox.
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Sknutson
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Username: Sknutson

Post Number: 816
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 1:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dialh: Where did you learn your grammar at?
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 2057
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 1:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That would be on the north side of Columbia. There's a parking lot on the block bounded by Park, Elizabeth, Clifford, and Columbia.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2547
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 3:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damnit. This is not where I want the loss of another old building.

Can anyone substantiate this claim? Give a source?
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Homer
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Username: Homer

Post Number: 108
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 3:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Illich seen this AM scurrying from floor to floor sucking the life from every room. Reported in the Det. Times
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 174
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 3:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is that building in what we think would be the footprint of a new hockey arena??

Or an adjacent block which might become a parking site for a new arena?

(I assume the consensus is that a new arena could be built in the area bounded by Park and Clifford and Elizabeth and Montcalm).

Is there more to the story then a building being demolished?

(Message edited by emu_steve on March 12, 2007)
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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 172
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 4:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is an awesome building. Completely modern and updated with today's latest comforts and conveniences! A must save structure!

Tear it down.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 98
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Making room for new Red Wings Home? Flagstar Arena perhaps?
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Leland_palmer
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Username: Leland_palmer

Post Number: 241
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 6:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)







http://fadeddetroit.com
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Pinewood73
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Username: Pinewood73

Post Number: 27
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 6:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

$2 per day or $5 per week
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 384
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 7:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eh, Ilitch has committed far, far, far, far worse sins.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3789
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 8:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As long as it is not directly ON Park Avenue, then it's not that big of a loss. Great arena site....

Save the curtains....
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 677
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 8:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rb336, what makes you (or anyone else on the thread) think that it is slated for the wrecking ball? Did I miss a link to an article or some inside info. on another thread?
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2549
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Leland. Now I know where this is. It's really isolated by parking lots. Say what you want about it being small and insignficant, but we're definitly no better off without it. It would be a pretty easy rehab for something residential given its small size.
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Blort
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Username: Blort

Post Number: 69
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes! Keep tearing down more old buildings!
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1075
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 9:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey! Thats where I put up all of my out of town guests!! How can they tear it down? I just chain them into the only room on the third floor with a window and give them a kerosene heater.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2112
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 1:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That apartment building and the one next to it to the east are the two and only two buildings that would need to be torn down for a new hockey arena. The building on Elizabeth near Park could be moved, even if just to the corner of Elizabeth and Park.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3794
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 2:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce, wouldn't the orange panel Film Exchange Building have to come down as well? Or does it depends on how close to Adams they would want to build?

But I agree, I would be all for moving some of these buildings for Park Ave. infill, with the arena just west of Park.
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Dialh4hipster
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Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1951
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 2:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At this point, is maintaining any of the remaining structures west of Park going to make any impact on the rebuilt urban structure?

They should just tear down everything regardless over there. Build the damn stadium, fill in the last empty area between 375 and the Lodge!

At the very worst there exists a clean slate for new construction.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2555
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 2:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If Ilitch went through that much effort, I would forever change my opinion of him.

I don't know why the designs for the arena would come this far east, when there is so much additional wide open space to the west near/along Grand River.

Dialh, you're being facetious, right? You do walk around downtown and notice that this is not the last remaining empty spot between the highways? And you do understand, as seen with Comerica Park, that leveling everything to build a stadium doesn't mean leveling everything to build a stadium. Because a stadium AND a bunch of surface lots is what we have around Comerica Park. Surface lots are useless in comparison to parking structures or underground parking, and a detriment to downtown.

(Message edited by mackinaw on March 13, 2007)
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Dialh4hipster
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Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1953
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 2:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I was pointing out was that the area just south of 75 from 375 to the Lodge is now almost fully built up, with the exception of this area.

You've got Ford Field, Comerica Park, Foxtown/Park Ave, this giant field of nothingness, and then MGM Grand Casino/Hotel.

So actually no, I wasn't being facetious. I think this would be the perfect spot for the new hockey arena, taking into account the same factors that made the construction of Comerica Park the impetus for a renewed Brush Park.

Fill up the empty space! I think then you'll start to see Lower Cass turn into something more attractive than what it is today.

Of course if someone wants to build a Crosswinds that would be welcome too. But "in all honesty" the stadium makes the most sense.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2558
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 2:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree that it is the perfect spot for the arena, and have thought that since the idea was first floated. I just know that, as seen around CoPa, there will be a push to level more land than is actually needed to make it happen, thus resulting in vacant lots which Ilitch will commandeer for parking. So I want to hold on to even the smallest old storefront if possible.

You were basically looking at downtown chunk by chunk, i.e. stadia area, theatre area, casino area, and that is useful to an extent, and yes, west of the Fox is a giant empty chunk. We still need to look at downtown with a block-by-block appraisal, and consider what is contained in each chunk. So we need to look ahead to the finished product of the new arena district.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3797
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 2:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw, the space between Park Ave. and Cass is more spacious and emptier than the space between Cass and Grand River (a triangular piece of land). And I don't think closing down Cass is a good option.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 396
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 4:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ya know, I just hope that with the state's huge budget deficit and unemployment shooting through the roof that Mr. Pizza Pizza doesn't expect any taxpayer Help Help to build this new hockey arena.
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 9:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charlottepaul - I know someone who is planning to bid on it
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 176
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 9:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Mackinaw. It seems foolish for someone building something as mega as an arena or stadium to acquire 100% of the needed land and no more.

I'd assume that Ilitch would want to parlay the adjacent land into some time of development (maybe a parking garage, maybe something else) and that land would have value to HIM but of little value to others (unless there is an arena built adjacent).

How about Hockeytown II? (I'm just kidding).
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 978
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 10:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ahhhh....folks, let's not soon forget who "emptied" the space west of the Fox.......Illitch got most of that property as part of the "Comerica Park" deal.....he gained ownership of those lands/(alot of it buildings at the time) via "takings" under the guise that the properties would be used for a stadium....that was over a DECADE ago.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 679
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 7:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rb336, I take it the bid for its demolition wasn't announced publicly then...
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Dnvn522
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Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 200
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 10:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

the space between Park Ave. and Cass is more spacious and emptier than the space between Cass and Grand River (a triangular piece of land)



The four blocks in the Park Ave to Cass Ave area have 6 buildings.




Approx square footage of this site is 305,000.



The four main blocks in the Cass Ave to Grand River area have 7 buildings not including the church. (The pic shows an eighth building that isn't there anymore.)




Approx square footage (not including church)of this site is 320,000.



The three block area sliding to the south has 5 buildings.




Approx square footage of this site is 270,000.



As a comparison... The Palace (building only) takes up approx 200,000 square feet. The Joe takes up approx 150,000 square feet.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2561
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 11:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Dnvn. I went back and looked at these photos after Gistok's posts, and I thought that the Grand River-Columbia-Cass Block could do the job better.
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 181
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 12:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was wondering if Ilitch would consider building a parking garage with a Hockeytown MOTIF next to an arena?

The Hockeytown motif would lend itself easily to exporting to a parking garage.

A cathredral tower on the top parking level with a puck. Maybe the scrolling spanner: "Welcome to [TBD] Arena and Hockeytown Parking". Two video panels.

Maybe a parking garage which adds value to the area!
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Planner_727
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Username: Planner_727

Post Number: 96
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is so much empty land in this area... Illtich, Tigers, or Olympia own almost 90% of it. Enough for an arena and literally about 5-6 square blocks of parking lots, if so desired. I'd love to see the arena with double frontage on Grand River and Cass, and the blocks between Cass and Park built out with parking decks that have retail on floors 1 and possibly 2. Make Park rehabs residential and you've got a great mixed use district just steps from MGM.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 468
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 4:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On the positive side, maybe a new arena in this location will help out the Masonic Temple?
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 700
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 7:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eh, doubt it Rhymeswithrawk. There is some sort of 200 foot wide cavern between there and there.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 472
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 7:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know, but more traffic in the area ...
So long as they don't level it for another parking lot. :-)
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Leland_palmer
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Username: Leland_palmer

Post Number: 281
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 11:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looks like it's official

Ilitches get grant to raze building near rumored site of new hockey venue

"The owners of the Detroit Red Wings within weeks plan to tear down a vacant building in an area of downtown Detroit long rumored to be their preferred site for a new hockey arena."

Louis Aguilar / The Detroit News

http://detroitnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070404/U PDATE/704040441/1003
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2168
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 8:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the arena could fit between Park and Cass, and Montcalm and Elizabeth that would be ideal. The only streets affected would be Columbia, and Clifford, which to me is a redundant street that can be closed since Cass serves as the north-south route out of and into the CBD west of Woodward.

The Iodent Building, the fire house, and the little house on Elizabeth (which would have to be moved closer to Park) should be saved. Parking garages could go on the lots outside of the arena parameters.

(Message edited by royce on April 04, 2007)
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Pinewood73
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Username: Pinewood73

Post Number: 28
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 5:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pic I took of the Vermont Hotel before going to the All-Star Game in '05


Hotel Vermont
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 583
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 5:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why keep that rank of a hotel when you have the fabulous Hotel Park ave. next door to it?
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2174
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 4:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^bump.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1516
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 8:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who owns the old "C.C. Bar" building on Cass within the area you're all talking about (Cass at Columbia)? If the owner isn't Ilitch, he or she might not want to sell out. I've noticed a "Court Order - Do Not Demolish" sign on that building.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2176
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 6:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^bump

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