Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 CNBC Story on Detroit and Michigan Economy Previous Next
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Username: River_rat

Post Number: 257
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 5:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hope a number of forum folks saw the 4 PM comments about the continuing economic decline of Detroit and the "one state recession" in Michigan. All very depressing but well presented with new information about job relocations out of Detroit and Michigan.

The final advice to us from CNBC, "become a right to work state".
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1885
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 6:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's the easiest, but incorrect, answer to the problem. The rest of the nation might be laughing now but if things don't change they will be affected, too. It's about the national economy and non-existant trade policy. Michigan just feels it first because we're so heavily dependent on manufacturing. Nobody wants to admit what good manufacturing jobs pay for downstream and how the loss of them will play out.
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 696
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 6:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not necessarily true Lilpup. The reason that MI felt it is because MI is so dependent on manufacturing. While there are other professions whose jobs can be shipped overseas, they are not nearly as prevalent elsewhere. Don't look for it to ever be as severe elsewhere or ever occur at all in any other state in the near future.
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 797
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 6:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting analysis Lilpup.

I believe that you could potentially, and I'm serious about this, get onto one of those cable news shows to argue your point.

The main reason being because they love controversy and there would really be no thoughtful commentator of national stature that would argue the same point as you.

Make sure you charge them for the appearance.
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Username: Lvnthed

Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 7:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NO PEOPLE!! We need balance,

CNBC may think that Unions are the cancer of industry, and we need to be a RTWS. But have you ever considered the source. They are paid to be pro business. People whose job is to pit worker against worker, so as to divert their attention while they rob the company blind. People who have convinced working people to believe that having NO rights is in their best interest, that is until someone drops dead in a non-union coal mine.

Now, having been raised in a union family,I have become more of a reformist, rather than a hard-liner. And having worked as a Union Carpenter I am pretty versed on the subject. But until you can explain why southern union members from RTWS's caravan to michigan from the south for union work because they can't support there families, is a good thing. I will be distrustful of crooks and cons in ivory towers.

I refuse to let CEO's control the debate. And until they can prove that being a non-union worker is a upgrade in the quality of life of workers. then I will not trust a word that comes out of their dirty mouthes. Even now in your precious RTWS's foreign companies have already started complaining about legacy costs. And a new crop of under-employed people are getting ready to mount their attack on those workers who railed against us. GOOD FOR THEM. What a vicious cycle.
Unions members have taken the most hit's to the pocket and 100% of the blame. While the execs. get honored with retention bonuses for FAILING to PRODUCE. What ever happened to RESPONSIBILITY?
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1886
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 8:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charlottepaul, do you think Michigan, or US manufacturing, function in their own little vacuums? What do you think would happen if the Detroit automakers cut the health benefit premiums they pay by even a third? How would that shortfall be made up in the insurance and/or medical industry? We're already seeing what's happening in housing - how much more fundamental can you get? Then add in all the peripheral spending - tourism, entertainment, etc.

Bear that in mind while the trade deficit runs rampant, and remember that Michigan is one of the top exporting states in the nation.

ps - No surprise that CNBC's primary negative source about Detroit was David Littman http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=220480279

(Message edited by lilpup on March 20, 2007)
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2135
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 2:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What would happen if there was a climate shift and the climate in Florida was like Michigan? Could Florida re-invent itself after losing it's tourism dollars from those seeking warmer temperatures during the winter months?

It's just not that easy for a state to re-invent itself when it loses its main business activity. Michigan jobs are connected to manufacturing and the auto industry. Manufacturing brought millions of people from the south for jobs in the factories because there weren't any factories in the south. Workers in Michigan were able to make good wages and essentially created the middle class. Now, industry with the excuse that cheaper labor abroad is what is forcing them to leave Michigan or the U.S., wants workers to make slave wages like those workers overseas so that they can cut labor costs and stay profitable, yet VPs and CEOs are getting huge bonuses.

Look at a state like Louisiana. Look at a city like New Orleans. They have very little manufacturing. Hurricane Katrina exposed how poor the people of New Orleans are. New Orleans relies on tourism. Well, tourism isn't the same in New Orleans since the hurricane. How does it re-invent itself?

Unions stand up for workers, not always the best workers, but workers just the same. Without them, people are at the mercy of the corporations that they work for. Unions protect workers from being forced to work for slave wages, and they attempt to keep the worker's salaries in line with the VPs and CEOs.

My argument for years has been,"if corporations take away the worker's buying power, derived from a nice salary, then how do they expect to sell their products if people can no longer afford to buy them?

Michigan is not Florida or Louisianna, and thank God it isn't. We can't become more like them, and they can't become more like us. I don't know what exactly is the answer for Michigan, but I know it's not abandoning what brought Michigan prosperity and that's manufacturing.
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2903
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 8:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For the liberal media to suggest that Michigan become a "right-to-work" state is telling in itself that old saws that cannot cut need sharpening.

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