Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Wayne Country Lost 89,000 people Previous Next
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Sg9018
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Username: Sg9018

Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 6:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Arcording to the Free Press and Detroit News Wayne Country will United States Number One population loser in the country. Only the counties effected by Hurricane Katrina had a greater population loss. As Wayne country loses population Livingston, Washtenaw and Macomb counties had a great popualtion growth. Out of the 89,000 population lost, 13,000 came from Detroit.
Detroit News
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070322/M ETRO/703220391
Free Press
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070322/NEW S06/703220327&imw=Y
WJBK Blogs
http://community.myfoxdetroit. com/blogs/Sound_Off/2007/03/22 /Any_Ideas_To_Keep_People_From _Leaving
WDIV story
http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/11328395/detail.html
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 1245
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 6:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where the heck is Wayne Country?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5276
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 6:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne lost a little more than 19,000 between 2005-2006 after birth-rates/in-migrations are factored back in, and even the Detroit News makes note of that. It's still bad, but not unexpected. It's been falling at nearly the same rate since 2000.

BTW, before we start writing the obituararies, between 2000 and 2006 Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) loss -5.7% of its population, Alleghany County (Pittsburgh) -4.5%, and Philadelphia County (Philadelphia) -4.6% had greater percentage losses, and San Francisco County (San Francisco) lost just a bit less than Wayne County at 4.2%

In comparison Wayne County's loss from 2000 is -4.3%.

(Message edited by lmichigan on March 22, 2007)
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1749
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 7:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Population can't go negative so it has to bottom out sometime. Then what?

I was surprised Oakland County's recent increase was so small.

Also note that among those with increases (in the detnews graph: Macomb, Livingston and Oakland), the increases are declining from those of recent years.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5643
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 7:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Folks leaving Detroit to the to other county suburbs is one reason why Wayne County is losing over 89,000 people.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1057
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 7:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"BTW, before we start writing the obituararies, between 2000 and 2006 Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) loss -5.7% of its population, Alleghany County (Pittsburgh) -4.5%, and Philadelphia County (Philadelphia) -4.6% had greater percentage losses, and San Francisco County (San Francisco) lost just a bit less than Wayne County at 4.2%"


1. Wayne county is bigger than both Alleghany County and Cuyahoga County. Wayne is losing far more people than both of those counties.

2. Philadelphia County and San Francisco County are bleeding poor folk. Both counties have a huge amount of rich professionals pushing poor people out. San Francisco's poor people are moving to Oakland and to Daly City. Philadelphia is pushing them to Trenton and Wilmington. This is great news for those counties, fewer people, more college graduates, more money.

Wayne County is losing the rich and middle class. It's not poor people who are leaving, its poor people who are going to be in the hollow shell.

This is not good news. Population loss can be good, but its not in this case.
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Homer
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Username: Homer

Post Number: 127
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 7:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well if they included illegals and the homeless the numbers would be increased somewhat.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1058
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 7:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Well if they included illegals and the homeless the numbers would be increased somewhat"

That's the kind of population growth you want!
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4171
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 8:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Black flight.
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Yaktown
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Username: Yaktown

Post Number: 132
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 9:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne Country? Is that anywhere near Marlboro Country?
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1125
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 9:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"That's the kind of population growth you want!"

What kind of attitude is that? Homeless really need representation. And who is kidding who, illegals do use hospitals and other essential services. Like it or not these are very real populations.
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 132
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 9:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

89,000? Did they all die?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5277
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 9:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who said, Milwaukee, that Wayne County's loss is good? Certainly not me, my only point was that percentage loss measurements are just as important, if not more, than net loss measurements. You can explain away the sizes of San Francisco, Allegheny, and Philadelphia County, but then there is Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) with a -5.7% to Wayne's -4.3%. You can't just ignore percentage loss, you have to take it into account with net loss, or lose credibility when speaking on these issues.

Detroit MSA:

2005: 4,479,400
2006: 4,468,966

Net Loss: -10,434
Percent Change 2005-2006: -.23%

2000: 4,452,557
2006: 4,468,966

Net Gain: +16,409
Percent Change 2000-2006: +.36%

------------------------------ -------------------

Detroit CMSA:

2005: 5,521,098
2006: 5,512,205

Net Loss: -8,893
Percent Change 2005-2006: -.16%

2000: 5,444,147
2006: 5,512,205

Net Gain: 68,058
Percent Change 2000-2006: +1.23%

------------------------------ -------------------

Michigan:

2005: 10,120,860
2006: 10,095,643

Net Loss: -25,217
Percent Change 2005-2006: -.24%

2000: 9,938,444
2006: 10,095,643

Net Gain: +157,199
Percent Change 2000-2006: +1.55%

------------------------------ ------------------

Speaking of Metro Areas, as you can see, Metro Detroit both the CSA and MSA saw a loss, this year, but we'd have to have a sustained and increased loss to register a decade loss. Metro Cleveland and Metro Pittsburgh are already experiencing a decade-end loss. I'm not saying Detroit is in a good situation, hardly, but there are quite a few others in the same situation, and as I've pointed out actually worse situations in terms of population loss, both city and metro.

(Message edited by lmichigan on March 22, 2007)
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 318
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 9:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They're some people on here unaware of where Wayne County is located and the details of it

Wayne County: A County located within SE Michigan that includes the largest city in the state, Detroit and is bordered by the Detroit River and Lake St. Clair and border's in closest to Canada. in this region of the state (including Ambassador Bridge and Windsor tunnel).

Here is a map of it right here.....

http://aec.msu.edu/product/ima ges/reg_se_wh.gif
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5279
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 9:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No one is confused as to where Wayne County is. People are confused as to where Wayne Country is.



(Message edited by lmichigan on March 22, 2007)
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 321
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 10:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Still, good to list the information as people still could be unaware. However, back to the country thing, sg9018, WHERE IS Wayne Country????
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Hutt
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Username: Hutt

Post Number: 20
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 11:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We must go find them!!!
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 489
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 2:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well it gained me. :-) Not that anyone was celebrating that fact, of course.

It's sad. Especially with all the affluent cities like the Pointes and the middle class ones like Livonia, you'd think those communities would cushion the blow.
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Dtwflyer
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Username: Dtwflyer

Post Number: 48
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 2:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sad part of it is that over the next decade, demographers are predicting a net loss of between 25,000 - 50,000 people moving out of suburban Wayne County.

The primary driver behind this is due to Ford restructuring & buy-outs, and retirees, both leaving the state overall. One in search of jobs, the other in search of a warm climate to spend the twilight of their lives.
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 187
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 3:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW, guys.

I posted some time ago about Detroit demographics and indicated I'd contact the Census Bureau (I know a demographer who works in their Population Division).

This is an excerpt from the e-mail:

"For the vast majority of cities we do not have birth, death and migration data available. The city estimates are calculated using data on housing units to distribute a county's population
to the places within the county. We do have birth and death data available for those cities that are independent cities or county equivalents."

As such there are yearly birth, death, and migration data for say Washington, D.C. but not Detroit.

For anyone curious, a Washington paper indicates that Washington had 8K+ births and almost 6K deaths but a net 3K out migration for one year.

In D.C.s case the reported reason is gentrification. "young wealthy couples replace larger, poorer families who can no longer afford the city."

I suspect Detroit's migration is similar with singles and childless couples coming into the gentrifying (sp) areas while families with children leave for the 'burbs. (D.C. has many, many new apartment and condo buildings going up in gentrifying areas so many persons are moving in but apparently many are also moving out).

I have NO idea what the birth and death numbers in Detroit would look like.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5656
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 3:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne County will survive even if it's 2,000 people left. And replace by nature.
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Zephyrprocess
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Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 288
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 5:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't most of this due to deaths in the war between Detroit and Livonia?
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 369
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 8:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All the bus riders from the Livonia bus eliminations are now clogging up the freeways and thus we have too much smog. So, people are moving out to where the air is cleaner.

I'm one of those clogging the freeways that used to ride SMART and I see many more cars but the Michigan Department of Transportation just don't see this. It's because of the smog. If you all support my Bring Back SMART to Livonia petition, then the air will be clean and our leaders will think and see much more clearly.

And then people will move into Wayne County and not out.

http://savethefueltax.tripod.c om/theplan.html
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2906
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 8:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

All the bus riders from the Livonia bus eliminations are now clogging up the freeways and thus we have too much smog. So, people are moving out to where the air is cleaner.


Come on, Trainman, Get real! Planet Earth is but a few feet below.

Only some 2% of Livonians rode the SMART buses before Livonia started its own replacement system.

Clogging the freeways, indeed!
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 503
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 9:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This may not be as a big a deal. Many of Wayne County suburbs are built out. There is no more new housing going up, so it could just be a demographic shift. The pop could go up, as new families fill up homes housing just elderly couples at the moment.

When you are built out, you can't expect the pop to always increase. Its going to go up and down.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 370
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 10:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, It's true that I filled up the Middlebelt buses. I rode with the seeing eye dogs and saw how the Michigan Department of Transportation slashes money for the handicapped and then blames the Livonia voters.

So, I'm upgrading my website to restore all state money.

http://savethefueltax.tripod.c om/index.html
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Ventura67
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Username: Ventura67

Post Number: 115
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 11:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne Country...

That there southern part of Wayne County is kinda country!

YeeHaw!!!
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Ventura67
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Username: Ventura67

Post Number: 116
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 11:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By the way, my observations show that the country part of Wayne County (mostly the extreme southeastern area) is the only part of Wayne county that actually is growing. Sumpter, Huron Twps, etc. Any numbers on that?

There is still lots of wooded, large parcels down there. Those people gotta like the planes buzzing over their roofs all hours of the day from Metro Airport, though.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 378
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 6:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"There is still lots of wooded, large parcels down there. Those people gotta like the planes buzzing over their roofs all hours of the day from Metro Airport, though."

I know that's right. We hear planes all day from CAY over on the NE side of Detroit, (AND IT'S A GROUNDED AIRPORT!).
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 188
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 8:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dtwflyer:

"Sad part of it is that over the next decade, demographers are predicting a net loss of between 25,000 - 50,000 people moving out of suburban Wayne County.

The primary driver behind this is due to Ford restructuring & buy-outs, and retirees, both leaving the state overall. One in search of jobs, the other in search of a warm climate to spend the twilight of their lives."

Yep, and not just Wayne County.

I mentioned in a post a while ago about the weather.

and low and behold areas with big pop. drops are cold weather areas like DET, CLE, PITT, Philly, etc. (see some of the previous posts in this thread).

The graying of America means more and more retirees leaving the midwest for the sunbelt.

Demographics in Florida must be crazy with very high in migration (not just retirees) and very high death rates.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 504
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 8:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually that is not true. The sunbelt is seeing outmirgation of elderly people back to the North Eastern cities. It may not be a whole flood, but I read an article not to long ago, stating that many people are moving back to NYC, Philly, Chicago, etc from the Sunbelt. And that I think for the first time if places like Florida only grew their pop by American's moving interstate, that Florida would see a pop decline or something from the elderly market.

It was something like that. Gotta dig up the article.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5659
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 10:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good research Miketoronto,

Factual demographic data make the source. No slippery slope fallacies about it.
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 190
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 10:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very interesting, BUT are we talking about NET migration?

What I mean if 100K move to FL and 50K move OUT of FL back to the north of the Mason-Dixon?

I agree the southward migration trend might be SLOWING but I doubt it has ended.

I'd suspect there are more moving vans driving south then driving north.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2909
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 10:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some of those down South/West may be returning for the summers to their second (Michigan) houses that they probably couldn't yet sell at a high-enough price.

It's most doubtful, however, that many would come here for jobs because that it just contrary to good common sense.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 713
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 11:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

'bout time the Wayne County suburbs got what they deserved
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Jiminnm
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Username: Jiminnm

Post Number: 1217
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 12:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne Country had a big hit a few years ago with "My Loss is Your Gain," but he hasn't had any since then.
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 191
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 1:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spending summers in Detroit watching the Tigs isn't a bad way for a retiree to spend his (or her) time.

Spending falls in Detroit watching the Lions...

(Message edited by emu_steve on March 25, 2007)
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Roomseller
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Username: Roomseller

Post Number: 21
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 2:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne Country. That's too funny. Melvindale gained like 1%, it was in the Free Press mid-January. Woo Woo for Melvindale.
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 679
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 4:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another factor which will greatly influence the population of our state is longevity. The elderly who remain here are living much longer than before. They form a foundation for new birth to build upon. Once all the baby boomers pass on, we could see some huge population declines in this region.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1083
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 11:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How are the GP's doing? Are they losing or gaining population?

I would guess losing because of smaller family sizes and maybe home demolitions for larger homes. Is that true or even possible?

Like flattening two homes to build one mega house. Is that happening?
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 507
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 11:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is no longer a city vs suburb thing. Cities across the country are seeing their suburban areas also lose pop just like Wayne County.

Milwaukee County for example has been bleeding people for years now, and it is only expected to stop, if they can get new immigrants to move into the metro region.

Erie County, in Buffalo also has lost people.
The list goes on :-)

Pop stats
Milwaukee County
Peak pop: 1,054,063 (1967)
Pop today: 921,654

Cook County Illions
Peak Pop: 5,492,369 (1970)
Pop in 2000: 5,376,741

(Message edited by miketoronto on March 25, 2007)
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 270
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 11:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those two stats pale compared to Wayne CountRy]
1970=2,666,751
estimate today, 1,971,853
694,898 less people

Even crazier is to think of the amount of acres of developed land that has been created since then in the county!
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5301
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 1:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's scary is that the tri-county area, the core of the metro area, has slightly less people than it did in 1960! Metro Detroit is very easily on its way to becoming one of the only metro areas in the country to lose population along the likes of Metro Cleveland and Metro Pittsburgh.

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