  Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1771 Registered: 06-2004 |
Just reading about the state budget woes and how one of the cost saving measures is releasing 5,000 non-violent offenders and laying off 30 state troopers ok, so, how much money gets spent dealing with pot related offenses? enforcement, prosecution, jailing, etc., etc. are there Federal laws that would prevent legalizing pot in the same manner as alcohol? would Federal funding be lost? | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1247 Registered: 03-2006 |
it can be de-criminalized, where it is a ticket. Michigan needs to get up to date on that. Even Ohio has it de-criminalized. I know in Ann Arbor it is only a 25 dollar ticket | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 336 Registered: 02-2006 |
Legalizing pot would be great. I'm not a smoker and wouldn't even if it were legal but I think making it legal would be a great idea. You could tax it to all hell. It would create legal jobs which would pay taxes. It would cut out a ton of law enforcement costs. The only problem would be how to test someone in a traffic stop. Would there be something similar to an open container law for pot? | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 258 Registered: 11-2006 |
If pot were legalized thousands of law enforcement people would be out of work and very cranky. Maybe they could get work at a marijuana cigarette plant or government growing farm. Can't wait to read all the more intelligent, legalese posts from all you smart folks! | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1248 Registered: 03-2006 |
The only reason it was ever legalized in the first place was because it was a threat to the rope and cotton industry. These days tobacco and alcohol companies lobby to keep it illegal. Find me one person that died from too much weed. Find me someone who died from alcohol poisoning, drunk driving, etc. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 260 Registered: 11-2006 |
I almost coughed up a lung in 1979. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1772 Registered: 06-2004 |
quote:um, not here - there's plenty of work to go around | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 48 Registered: 02-2007 |
Pot should be legalized, or decriminalized at the very least. With alcohol being legal, marijuana should be the least of peoples worries. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 106 Registered: 08-2006 |
take a look at California for a good example of how legalizing medical marijuana has opened up jobs and increased local economies. Pot-passes can be acquired (relatively easily) from medical professionals for a small cost (~$150) if you have an ailment that can be treated with marijuana. Marijuana stores are popping up all over the place in LA, San Francisco, and San Diego. These stores are licensed to carry pot and are usually privately-owned. You have to have a 'pot pass' to purchase the product and must be 21+ to enter the store. Business is booming, both for the medical professionals that hand out the passes and for the pot boutiques that have been opening up at a fast clip. The federal gov't still considers pot 100% illegal but the legalization of med. marijuana and the sale of pot in boutique stores is as much an expression of state's rights as it is a thriving business. Detroit and Michigan would benefit from the legalization of medical marijuana. Proposals have passed overwhelmingly in Ann Arbor and other cities but have been shot down by the state legislature. It is time to think progressively. Legalizing pot would take the drug out of the hands of violent street dealers and into safe and legal hands. It would increase local economies (imagine if pot were legal in ONLY Detroit...). Police enforcement could concentrate on violent crimes, car robberies, and hard drugs (the city's real woes). Our friends across the river have already turned a blind eye to marijuana possession. It is time for America to go one step further and legalize it in a smart and effective way. easier said than done........ | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 952 Registered: 06-2006 |
The Gov asked how to fix the state's problems...let's all send her this thread! Too much money is spent on pot related offenses. Then again, the money courts get from fines and probation costs is aplenty. Probation violations put even more cash into the courts (courts, not the state). I'd vote to legalize it. | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 215 Registered: 05-2006 |
Marijuana was made illegal to give the post Prohibition law enforcement community a reason to exist and because in the early 30’s equipment was developed that allowed marijuana seeds (an abundant and easily grown commodity) to be processed into a form of ethanol, putting it in direct competition with the hugely powerful oil and petrochemical industries. It remains illegal because the wealthy and powerful in society use that wealth and power to maintain the status quo and because politicians (especially conservative ones) love telling people how to live their lives. They delude themselves into thinking they can control something by simply passing a law against it and they ignore the lessons that should have been learned during “The Noble Experiment”. Repeated scientific studies have shown that marijuana use has little, if any, negative effect on its users other than those associated with it being an illegal commodity. However, as we all know, the government (particularly the current administration) has little use for science. Anyone interested in the history and causes of the current marijuana prohibition should read The Emperor Wears No Clothes by Jack Herer. (Message edited by Ramcharger on March 07, 2007) | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 118 Registered: 06-2005 |
I think it should be legalized. Just think of the money to be made off of it. And Hell were doing it anyway whether they like it or not. Its the religious right that is keeping it illegal. (I may be wrong but doubt it). | ||
Bongman Member Username: Bongman Post Number: 1436 Registered: 12-2003 |
**cough** No comment. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3131 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer -listing/0618446702/ref=pd_bbs _sr_olp_1/102-6743088-3735357? ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173276596 &sr=1-1 | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 4682 Registered: 11-2004 |
I never understood the rationale for not having medicinal marijuana- especially if it's dispensed by trained authorized medical personnel. They regulate morphine- why not marijuana? If it's for medicinal purposes and can offer some form of relief for patients- then why not? | ||
14509glenfield Member Username: 14509glenfield Post Number: 400 Registered: 05-2006 |
Since the early 70's (and before that) HIGH TIMES MAGAZINE addressed this issue. Hmm? 30 years plus the legalization issue still exist. You get busted (good) for a DUI (alcohol). If you use/abuse alcohol or "pot" and get caught and don't teach your children well....Well pay the price. If you don't wanted it printed: then don't let it happen! | ||
14509glenfield Member Username: 14509glenfield Post Number: 401 Registered: 05-2006 |
I think Arizona... lately on the radio....It's okay to "abuse your spouse" ONCE a year. That makes NONsense | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 4683 Registered: 11-2004 |
Abuse is abuse- regardless if it's marijuana, painkillers, alcohol or some non-prescription item. I'm just approaching the medicinal side of things with this and it doesn't make sense to me. I'm not saying make it available like a Hershey bar or Pez- why not let medical professionals dispense it and for the right reasons? | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3719 Registered: 10-2003 |
1-Legalize adult consumption of all drugs. What one chooses to put in their body is a civil right. If they break any laws as an alleged result of usage or not - lock em up. No excuses. 2- Outlaw the advertising and encouragement of all drugs. Bye bye Bud Light horses, bye bye Viagra ads, tobacco ads, Lipitor ads. Mandatory health education should make sure kids know how drugs and other things they put in their body, including fatty foods, can destroy their health. Resources should be redirected from law enforcement to education, rehab and cessation programs. That's too much to ask for our brainwashed-panic-on-drugs body politic, so I agree with the direction of this thread. Start with cannibus and the advertising ban. No more alcoholic judges locking up reefer adults. | ||
14509glenfield Member Username: 14509glenfield Post Number: 403 Registered: 05-2006 |
Mr.Smogboy .... I agree 100%...Hell, currently if you have "herb"...you are bad. Convicted until proven innocent. Seems a bit harsh for the folk that for "medicinal" use is appropriately | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 454 Registered: 03-2006 |
If pot were legalized... I would have fun | ||
Hagglerock Member Username: Hagglerock Post Number: 414 Registered: 03-2005 |
Lilpup, I've asked myself that question many times over for Detroit. I don't have a problem with legalizing it. I don't do it and have no yearning to. Considering the fact that in my line of work one would get sent to the brig for 30 days (i.e. jail) for popping positive on a piss test. Some thought that small fine you get in Ann Arbor was bad.  My thing is, like alcohol, shun it from any job that requires optimal reaction time when involved with heavy machinery, aircraft, boats or anything that could put lives in danger. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 195 Registered: 10-2003 |
Doesn't seem to be a lot of dissent on this issue. I've said this several times on these forums and have linked to that "Emperor Wears No Clothes" book a couple times as well. It's a great read, I second the above recommendation. Hey, Michigan has some problems and needs some creative solutions. Time to start trying stuff. | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 50 Registered: 02-2007 |
It makes sense to legalize marijuana. Too much sense. Unfortunately the general public is too brainwashed and ignorant towards marijuana. It will probably never be legalized. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 197 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't think the general public really feels that way. It sure doesn't seem like it to me. I think its more of a vocal minority + what politician is going to step up and say "lets legalize marijuana"? In a way, I think its sort of why oral sex is illegal in michigan, although obviously not inforced. Or any of those other "silly laws" that stay on the books forever. Who's going to waste their time or tarnish their reputation by trumpeting those issue? | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2007 |
I agree with the whole legalize everything ethos. Who was it who said insanity was "doing the same thing over and over in the same way and expecting different results?" If we can't keep drugs out of maximum security prisons, how do they think we can keep them out of the populace? Crime associated with drug use is mostly due to its illegal status; similar crimes associated with alcohol dropped steeply after prohibition ended | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9262 Registered: 10-2003 |
Lowell, I disagree with your legalize all drugs stance. Hard drugs such as crack or heroin cause a myriad of problems that a society would not be able to control. These drugs cause such aggressive addictions that crime would spike uncontrollably! With pot at least it is a mild sedative much like alchohol. I have yet to know anyone that breaks into houses or robs someone to get money to buy pot. Heroin and crack (and all the other junk) is a whole other issue. There a re two reasons why MJ isn't legalized is that the gov't couldn't control the sale of it since it will grow just about anywhere. We could all grow it in our backkyards or closets and sell it. Thus bringing the price of MJ down. But this would also bypass any taxes the gov't might levy against it. The other issue is since we already have tobacco and alchohol in our midst, I think that the gov't doesn't want another headache. Look at all the social ills that are caused by alchohol. It is astounding the cost and toll it takes on our society (though I love to drink it). I personally think that it should be decriminalized with a small fine for anything over 16 grams. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1775 Registered: 06-2004 |
Alcohol can be brewed at home and tobacco grown at home, too. The distribution restrictions come from the tax enforcement side - at home pot cultivation can be handled the same way. But at least that way it's generating money for the system instead of just sucking it out as it does now. | ||
Yelloweyes Member Username: Yelloweyes Post Number: 97 Registered: 02-2007 |
Agree with most. If it were decriminalized, then law enforcement could focus on harder drugs that cause real problems. Although it would be better if it was legal and taxed by the government. Think of all the people who would want to move to Michigan/Detroit if pot was legal here! Detroit would be the next Vegas... | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 322 Registered: 08-2006 |
lowell %110 agree! If it was regulated it would be easier to control. For some reason it was far easier for me to get a bag of weed or mushrooms at 15 than a bottle. Get rid of these multi-million dollar brainwashing campaigns ASAP. | ||
14509glenfield Member Username: 14509glenfield Post Number: 407 Registered: 05-2006 |
Would any aspiring political candidate go on board (gov't control/taxes/legalization) and sacrifice their own personal beliefs against "what is" ... Now on the books? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1778 Registered: 06-2004 |
nothing to keep it from being raised by a sitting legislator | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 52 Registered: 02-2007 |
You could grow pot yourself, but if someone could just walk down to the store and buy some, why bother? I could also brew my own beer at home, but I'd rather just go to the store and get it. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 710 Registered: 06-2006 |
Nevada almost legalized it a couple years ago...ballot measure failed 54% to 46%...it would have allowed adults to possess up to one ounce of marijuana and required the state to set up a system to tax and regulate sales I suspect though that this issue will come up again and they will be the first state to legalize it...once that happens, other states will take note of the benefits, if any, and some may follow suit (Message edited by thejesus on March 07, 2007) | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 200 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chro nicle-old/379/report1.shtml "A new report from the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) pegs the costs of marijuana law enforcement in the United States at $7.6 billion annually and finds that escalating marijuana arrests over the past two decades have failed to have any impact on marijuana use rates or other indicators chosen by drug enforcers to measure "success" in the war on drugs. What marijuana law enforcement has accomplished, the study found, is hundreds of thousands of arrests each year, with the burden of criminal sanctions borne disproportionately by the young and the non-white. Current marijuana polices, which rely heavily on criminal penalties, are "wholly ineffective at controlling the use and sale of marijuana," the study concluded. Authored by researcher and long-time marijuana watcher Jon Gettman, "Crimes of Indiscretion: Marijuana Arrests in the United States" includes a wealth of data on the costs associated with pot law enforcement, as well as a state-by-state and demographic analysis of who is being arrested under the marijuana laws. It's not a pretty picture. Marijuana law enforcement is effectively racially biased, the study found, with blacks being arrested for marijuana offenses at a rate twice what would be expected based on their usage levels. While adult blacks constitute 11.9% of annual marijuana users, they account for 23% of all marijuana possession arrests in the United States." A little old, but I doubt the statistics have changed any. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1253 Registered: 03-2006 |
where's Karl? | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1328 Registered: 11-2003 |
I used to disagree with legalizing any drug. I've change my tone over the past several years. I now belive we should make every recreational drug legal. 1) Agree with Lowell above. If it is legal, you can control it and tax it. Instead of spending money to fight it, you generate money for use elsewhere. Think about the millions or billions this city/state/nation pays for the "war on drugs". Well, instead of spending billions, why not make billions?? Seems like common business sense to me. Not only will the gov't benefit, but so will the companies setup to provide it. And instead of being underground, criminal organizations, they will pay business and income taxes and be under the scrutiny of the government. 2) It will save lives. Yup. It will save hundreds, maybe thousands every single year. How many people in America are murdered each year because of drugs? Those 2 kids a couple weeks ago would probably be alive. Between the bad drug deals, the retaliation for some other something, that would all be gone. People wouldn't have to go to criminals for their fix. Criminals would essentially be put out of business. Those that remain would be much lower in number, and with the increased funding from taxes on the drugs and businesses, you could better fight the remaining. But bottom line is that a huge % of death and murder is related to drugs. You could cut that way way down almost instantly. 3) The people that want to do drugs are doing it anyway. Being illegal doesn't stop anyone from doing it. Maybe a few people it does, but to the rest, they just want the fix and don't care how to get it. I think Jon Stewart was talking once about the gay marriage bans across America, and said something to the effect of "its a good thing they're making gay marriage illegal, cause if it was legal, everybody would be running out to get gay married." Good point. Same thing applies to drugs. It isn't as if just because it is legal everyone's gonna go out and start doing it. And maybe it would actually result in fewer drug addicts?? How many, especially teenagers, are into drinking and drugs because of that "danger" aspect to it? That it is cool because they're not supposed to be doing it. Take that coolness away and I guarantee many of them won't be interested so much any more. 4) You can better help those who need addiction help, and you can better educate people on the effects of drugs. Treatment programs and education programs exist today, but they're fighting for money against law enforcement. Take even a small % of that money you're now making instead of spending and put it toward treatment and prevention, and that will save even more lives. Currently, people can't find help, and drugs take all those lives. Make people feel like they're not criminals and give them the best help money can buy. There should be plenty of money. 5) It saves my pocket too. If we started making billions instead of spending it, perhaps we can reduce taxes for the rest of us? 6) Reduces prison/jail costs too. How many freakin people do you think are in jail/prison because of drugs? How many are automatically in because of 3 strikes? Don't have law enforcement fight them, don't have to prosecute them, don't have to jail them. Save on all three. Get more money. Have more time for other stuff. Win win win. What are the downsides? Maybe a brief spike when it first goes legal because of everyone celebrating? There must be others, but I just see way way too many positives and few few negatives. Just seems too easy almost. Agreed they must be kept out of machinery, driving, schools, etc. But make sorta "legal districts" and you should be set. BTW, I feel the same way about prostitution. Regulate, tax, you can protect the women from getting battered by pimps and johns, you can force health inspections of the prostitutes and the facilities. It makes money, its safer for everyone. Johns get their hookers now anyway, why not just make money instead of spend it? But overall bottom line? Brings in money, and saves hundreds or thousands of lives each year. (Message edited by Jerome81 on March 07, 2007) | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 4696 Registered: 11-2004 |
Besides wouldn't this also help the hemp industry? From what I've seen industrial hemp has all sorts of uses but gets shunned because of the negativity associated with it. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 261 Registered: 11-2006 |
Do any of you know any Michigan or U.S. politicians that are working on a good plan for legalization? Even my 75 year old mother thinks it should be legalized for medical purposes. And this is the same woman who grounded me for a month and practically had a heart attack when she found a single seed in my purse in the 70's! When even conservative senior citizens agree with legalization there must be a number of politicians who are listening, right? I'll ask around where I live. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9266 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sorry but alchohol brewed at home is shit. Homegrown tobacoo tastes nothing like the cigarettes that people are addicted to currently so that also is ruled out. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 327 Registered: 08-2006 |
Cigerettes are aged for 5-7yrs same with most good alcohol. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1652 Registered: 12-2005 |
Great thread. Everyone's working together on an innovative solution. For starters, I'd vote for decriminalizing, discouraging and taxing all unrefined recreational drug cultivation, distribution and use by adults in Detroit. If that works well, as I expect it would, let it spread throughout Michigan. The economic benefits of diversifying Detroit's and Michigan's industries in this way would quite legitimately justify such a radical move. It might then spread across the country but at least we'd be at the leading edge of a growth industry (like Native American casinos) until then. Imagine the national news buzz ( sorry) that this would generate. The rest of the country could no longer ignore Detroit and her problems. The ensuing national dialog could be very fruitful. | ||
Bongman Member Username: Bongman Post Number: 1438 Registered: 12-2003 |
"Cigarettes are aged 5-7 years." Lol...In what....smelly old socks ? | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 329 Registered: 08-2006 |
barrels | ||
Bongman Member Username: Bongman Post Number: 1439 Registered: 12-2003 |
Initial Processing and Aging After purchase, leaf tobacco must be processed at the stemmery, where moisture is added to make the tobacco pliable enough to remove its large stems. Once the stems are removed, the tobacco is hydraulically prized or compressed into boxes or porous wooden vats called hogsheads. These will be stored in special warehouses for approximately two years, while the tobacco undergoes a natural aging and mellowing process. I had to google that....from Phillip Morris site. carry on.... | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 288 Registered: 07-2004 |
here's my take on this... ...wait...what? | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1184 Registered: 01-2005 |
I'd just like to pipe in here..haha...pipe...get it? Hhahahahaha. Pipe! Dude! | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2190 Registered: 07-2004 |
This is an innovative solution? We are in trouble. As I have said before I neither support nor am against legalzing marijuana. But I think you all are being very callow if you think our prisons and jails are occupied by peace loving dope smokers. The drug dealers deal in marijuana as it is a drug. And it makes them money just like crack does and heroin and all the other stuff.And don't be naive and think that they won't use the same tactics they use now(shooting two children execution style)to protect their reefer trade. And what will the drug dealers turn to if they can not prey on each other? Please don't any of you harbor the misguided thought that they will suddenly become members in good standing of society. It doesn't work like that. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8483 Registered: 10-2003 |
Then legalize it and mandate that all state taxes/revenues raised from selling marijuana go directly to law enforcement. | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 216 Registered: 05-2006 |
If vast sums of money could no longer be made providing an illegal substance the violence would stop. | ||
Peter Member Username: Peter Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2007 |
isn't possession of small amounts of marijuana legal in Ann Arbor? | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 166 Registered: 03-2006 |
Legalize it! | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1781 Registered: 06-2004 |
In Ann Arbor the city police issue $25 tickets for possession of personal use amounts, but if state troopers, university police, or county sheriff catch you, state law is applied. | ||
Benjo Member Username: Benjo Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2007 |
People are lazy, and pot makes you lazier, so most people would rather go to the corner store and pick up a taxed blunt rather than growing their own. | ||
C_p Member Username: C_p Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2006 |
For one thing , weed will be around forever as it is a natural substance, it was put on this earth for some reason, so why don't the dolts in politics try to make some revenue off of something they ain't never gonna get rid of. Please let me know of one person that has died from smoking weed and we can all reply with lists of millions of people who have died directly because of drinking( and don't forget the millions of innocent people who have been maimed or killed by drunk drivers)and the other millions who have died from tobacco use.One stupid little movie,"Reefer Madness", changed the minds of millions of people who have never even tried it(and inhaled).When is society ever going to use fact, not myth for legislation. Probably NEVER! | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 53 Registered: 02-2007 |
"People are lazy, and pot makes you lazier" Nope. That's a myth. Lazy people make themselves lazy. I know stupid lazy people who drink alcohol. Does alcohol make all people stupid and lazy? | ||
Michmeister Member Username: Michmeister Post Number: 127 Registered: 10-2006 |
What was this thread about again?.....Hey you guys, where are the freaking Doritos??????!!!!!! I can hear the commercials already....No stems , no seeds that you don`t need, Acapulco Gold is.......some badass weed! My thanks go out to Cheech and Chong. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 330 Registered: 08-2006 |
sorry was wrong on the timeframe. but they do age tobacco and that was my original point | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1658 Registered: 12-2005 |
Let's take the profit away from illegal drug dealers and instead put it into the public coffer where it's needed. | ||
Enduro Member Username: Enduro Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2006 |
They should legalize weed in the D. That would bring in some of the young, hip crowd. It would free up some of our boys in blue to do some real work and who knows, maybe some of those fancy banker types that Comerica can't attract to Detroit would overlook some of our blemishes if they could live in a progressive, but hazy town. | ||
Bagman Member Username: Bagman Post Number: 78 Registered: 06-2004 |
Folks, Since 2004 the Detroit Medicinal Marijuana Act was passed with a yes vote of 60%. ANN ARBOR also passed a ballot question by 74%, TRAVERSE CITY and FERNDALE and just last week FLINT have all passed Medicinal Marijuana ballot questions since 2004. The Ann Arbor Hash Bash started in 1972 as a way to celebrate the change in Michigan's pot law from a felony to a misdemeanor. After the law was overturned in December 1971, the legislature wrote a new law making marijuana possession a misdemeanor , technically there was no marijuana law in Michigan and the new law was to take effect April 1st 1972. The spirit of marijuana tolerance was strong in Michigan at this time. Someone put fliers up in Ann Arbor for a HASH FEST, In 1973 State Legislator Perry Bullard showed up to smoke a joint and make a speech at what was promoted at HASH BASH that year. (Bullard remained a member of the Michigan Legislature until 1992, and died in 1998.) Ann Arbor voters changed the City Charter in 1974 to set the fine for marijuana possession at $5. It stayed that way until 1990, when they voted to raise it to $25. Under Michigan state law, possession of less than 25 grams of pot is a misdemeanor and carries a maximum penalty of a $2,000 fine and/or one year in prison. There is also the lesser offense of "use of marijuana" which carries a maximum term of 90 days and/or a $100 fine. Now that the University has it's own Police force getting busted with POT at U of M is a BIG deal, being a misdemeanor and all. Funny how many students have reported picking the U of M over other places they had been accepted because the U of M is the home of The Ann Arbor HASH BASH. Every April for the last 35, this will be 36 years, It originally started on April 1st, APRIL"S FOOLS DAY! And for many years remained on that day, until the crowd voted to change the event to the first Saturday in April so more people could attend. Now it's the first Saturday of April, this year it's April 7th, always at HIGH NOON, on THE DIAG......It was originally a smoke-in but as the marijuana movement formed in the late 80's it became a much more political event. Also the cops started arresting people for smoking pot and charging them under state law, which meant that over the years the smoking has slowly disappeared, you can smell it , but you won't see to many people passing a joint. REMEMBER, It's the passing not the puffing that gets you busted. As the event became more political with speakers it became a one hour ( that's all the University allows for amplified sound) of power with speeches by all kinds of Marijuana Activists and Celebrities and Politicians from TOMMY CHONG, to JOHN SINCLAIR and JACK HERER, and GATEWOOD GALBRAITH, and the late CHEF RA, the cooking columnist from HIGH TIMES magazine who would have been at his 20th HASH BASH this year had he not passed away Christmas Day 2006. SO back to legalizing marijuana here in Michigan. I know for a fact that there is a group of people who are looking to do a state wide ballot initiative to legalize medicinal marijuana in 2008. They of course are lining up the money first, some 2 Million dollars. They had tried to do it a few years ago and almost got enough signatures with volunteer signature gatherers, now they will pay for sigs like all successful ballot initiatives do here in Michigan, we are a big state with lots of folks and for a state wide ballot question you need to collect about 400,000 if not 420,000 to be safe, but I was trying to avoid the pun. If you have any questions about marijuana legalization here in Michigan check with MI National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, NORML. They can explain why they are winning the WOD one vote at a time. They are at www.minorml.org | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3135 Registered: 10-2003 |
If pot makes you lazy, why did a former roommate of mine get up every day at 5:30 AM, (sometimes to smoke some pot) and go to his engineering job, where he worked 12 hour days? He still smokes, still works 12 hour days. Go figure. | ||
Markemarx Member Username: Markemarx Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2006 |
It seems (through my own & friends experiences) as though pot will adversely affect one's output or ambitions. This goes against the "American Way". The "American Way" seems to want aggressive decision makers. I don't think there is anyone that could argue for pot releasing ambitions and risking to commit to strong decisive actions. When pot doesn't negatively affect one's ambitions or output, it definetly enlightens a more intellectual and outside the box thinking person, but who want's that? We want to drop bombs and build buildings now! That's why I believe alcohol is legal and pot isn't. However, there is no doubt to the substantial positive economic effects which include the tax received and the reduction of money flowing into black markets and out of the country. Hell , if BC Hydro was sold as a taxed good which was grown in the USA, the Canadian economy would collapse. =). | ||
Bagman Member Username: Bagman Post Number: 82 Registered: 06-2004 |
Markemarx - What you call BC Hydro is being grown in the USA, EVERYWHERE....I was in the indoor gardening business for 5 years, and I will tell you that there are 100's of grow ops in every city in American and the quality of the pot only has to do with the seed or seedling that they started with. I can get pot here in Metro Detroit that is the same strain and of the same quality that I get when I go buy it over the counter in Amsterdam, where it is tolerated and almost as expensive as it is here where it's not "tolerated". | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 351 Registered: 04-2006 |
We should tax it like beer and control it so people don't drive high. Then we could use the money to pay for mass transit. This along with taxing escort services instead of busting them would raise vast sums of money for mass transit. The Southeast Michigan Council of Governments SEMCOG says NO Matter the source, it will take serious money to do mass transit right. Imagine what a great high it would be if we could go all over the place without driving? Imagine safe roads because those who drink and get high will be on trains and buses instead of on the roads We can save SMART and mass transit. So, please support my efforts to go on television to debate the Transportation Riders United and then watch and maybe all you DY'ers can get high without even smoking any pot? Imagine me on television. http://savethefueltax.tripod.c om/remain3.html | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1056 Registered: 04-2006 |
SEMCOG wants to tax pot to pay for buses? Marinol is available by prescription to those that need it. I am not in favor of legalizing this. Heck as far as I'm concerned cigs and booze cause enough problems. | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 87 Registered: 10-2006 |
Keep it illegal! It's a great and profitable fallback business in hard times. Prices are great and there are no taxes!!! Also you can threaten to shoot your competitors. Are they gonna call the cops? | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 352 Registered: 04-2006 |
SEMCOG abolished the state tax on gasoline to pay for the operating costs for the handicapped who use mass transit and community transit. Yes, it's TRUe our regional planners want us to pay a tax on anything as long as it's not Wal-Mart or even those who use mass transit. Any money from anywhere to pay for SMART. They don't care. Illegal mergers? Yes, Gouging the suburbanites to pay for Detroit's bus unions? YES YES YES. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 332 Registered: 08-2006 |
detroit- marinol is no where near as effective as marijauna. It only contains thc. Marijuana when smoked has 50-100 different active compounds depending on the kind/quality of the weed. Gannon had a quality rant about this a while back. Natural vs. refined=natural form is always better. Leave gods creations as-is! I could tell you exact differences between any "natural" and its refined counterpart but I doubt anyone but gannon or a few others would be interested in learning about drugs instead of beleiving the propaganda. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1254 Registered: 03-2006 |
mmmmm coney and fries.....oh man, I must be on the wrong thread! | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1059 Registered: 04-2006 |
Trainman wrote: "SEMCOG abolished the state tax on gasoline to pay for the operating costs for the handicapped who use mass transit and community transit." Interesting, when was a planning organization given the ability to tax or not to tax? | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 859 Registered: 06-2004 |
Legalize it and tax it. If at all possible grow it in Michigan as well. We can also become a major distribution point for the surrounding states and can milk them for several billion dollars as well. For that matter, I would also like to see prostitution legalized like in Windsor. We need a reputation as a slightly naughty place to come to for conventions. It would be very good for that business. Look at Las Vegas "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas". They might as well say, "come to Vegas and get laid. You're wife will never know." BTW, it's not true. It doesn't stay in Vegas and don't be the first sorry son of a bitch on your block to find that one out the hard way. | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 97 Registered: 10-2006 |
Let's protect the family pot farm and not get agribusiness in this. It's the core of the western PA economy. Hydroponics can help in hard times. let's keep the prices high for the little guy. | ||
Michmeister Member Username: Michmeister Post Number: 131 Registered: 10-2006 |
Legalize it, but don`t tax it. I am nobody`s morality apostle, but it is still dirty money. While we are at it, why not legalize prostitution? This casino business is bad enough, making money off of peoples weaknesses. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1685 Registered: 12-2005 |
According to Wikipedia, the oral LD50 of grain alcohol is 10.6 g/kg in young rats and 7.06 g/kg in aged rats. Does anyone know the LD50 for marijuana or whether it's even measurable? Just curious. | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 354 Registered: 04-2006 |
SEMCOG leaders supported the illegal costly DARTA agreement, which was a very effective tool to eliminate bus service in Livonia. NO, SEMCOG does not tax but it DOES allocate both state and federal grants. SEMCOG leaders got want they wanted in Livonia, which was to keep their jobs and 3 Million dollars for useless rail studies while jobs leave our state and others struggle without bus service and Wal-Mart low low wages that SUCK. | ||
Superdave Member Username: Superdave Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2007 |
was a cop and say YES legalize weed. NEVER fought a high person. fought MANY drunk or meth people. they aren't driving 80mph they are driving 18mph. guy i worked with from south carolina said that if they legalized marijuana on wednesday that by the following monday they would be on the shelves with advertising, 10 different brands, etc. want proof that govt isn't controlling population with new world order - if they legalized marijuana that would be the EASIEST people to manipulate. you could get thousands on trucks or trains with a crate full of twinkies and a playstation3. plus high girls make poor witnesses in court :p ( o )( o ) | ||
Markemarx Member Username: Markemarx Post Number: 27 Registered: 11-2006 |
-Jimaz The answer for your question was 3 lines below the statement you quoted on the Wiki page! What's the matter? ... high? == "LD50 of Tetrahydrocannabinol [THC] (active ingredient found in Cannabis): 1270 mg/kg in rats." Here's some more. 7. Drugs used in medicine are routinely given what is called an LD-50. The LD-50 rating indicates at what dosage fifty percent of test animals receiving a drug will die as a result of drug induced toxicity. A number of researchers have attempted to determine marijuana's LD-50 rating in test animals, without success. Simply stated, researchers have been unable to give animals enough marijuana to induce death. 8. At present it is estimated that marijuana's LD-50 is around 1:20,000 or 1:40,000. In layman terms this means that in order to induce death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as much marijuana as is contained in one marijuana cigarette. NIDA-supplied marijuana cigarettes weigh approximately .9 grams. A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response. Source: http://www.erowid.org/plants/c annabis/cannabis_law1-4.shtml I would take this all with a grain of salt. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 341 Registered: 08-2006 |
Erowid is like the history channel-goodstarting point but often vague or exagerated. | ||
Bongman Member Username: Bongman Post Number: 1442 Registered: 12-2003 |
http://www.latimes.com/news/lo cal/la-me-pot18dec18,0,5264617 .story?coll=la-home-headlines You can find different studies which claim that marijuana is only the 4th largest cash crop in the U.S. Either way, it sure seems like a major tax loss for the U.S. economy. Throw in the cost of current police expenses, judges, jail time,etc. The untold story is how your local law enforcement agencies use current drug laws (drug forfeiture for one) to finance lots of dogs, helicopters, and especially overtime. $50,000 a year police jobs turn into $80-90k and more that way, and people like to protect their gravy trains. | ||
Harpernottingham Member Username: Harpernottingham Post Number: 143 Registered: 04-2006 |
FEDS MAY PROSECUTE DYING CALIFORNIA WOMAN FOR MEDICINAL MARIJUANA USE http://www.mercurynews.com/cri me/ci_5440846 Preposterous! | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 276 Registered: 11-2006 |
Bongman, In the Ozarks they use helicopters to find the 'millions' of acres of pot growing! It is such a supreme waste of time. They buzz around and maybe, just maybe, find a small, personal garden. Then some poor tax-paying person who lives out in the middle of nowhere and isn't bothering anyone has their life turned upside down and the law enforcement officers get their ugly mugs in the paper standing next to 10 plants that they uprooted. This justifies millions of OUR dollars spent on the fancy machinery, and officer's paychecks It makes many of us shake our heads in disbelief. Thank the Good Lord Almighty they are out there keeping us safe from all of those 50-something nature-loving-patchouli-wearin g-tree huggers! | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8541 Registered: 12-2003 |
What justifies their mission is the property forfeiture allowed by Federal and State law after a drug possession and/or production. It funds a number of police sweetheart projects...and of course, the DARE program that keeps the Gateway Lie alive. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 277 Registered: 11-2006 |
A letter from a very small girl on the DARE Website: My DARE Officer has inspired my class and has made us really think. I mean we never even thought about any of this stuff before because we were too involved in our lives. But, this stuff really happens to a lot of people. My DARE teacher has taught us right from wrong and now the ceremony for graduation is coming soon. Many people don't want to leave the program. It is so great for my classmates and me. My DARE officer is Officer Marc Zeno of Woodbridge Police. I thank you alot for teaching me how to resist drugs. Thank You, Emily (end quote) She "never even thought about this stuff", was "too involved in our lives"? She is around 7 years old, for Pete's sake! You should see her little picture. What a ridiculous waste of money. Period. Oh, on a side note, I've learned how to copy and paste just last night, can anyone tell? Woohoo! | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 366 Registered: 04-2006 |
We should teach the children about Mass Transit instead of drugs. Then in about 20 years, we will actually have people smart enough to know how to run public bus service. The SMART November 27, 2006 bus reduction is solid physical evidence that we need people with brains to replace the idiots who run our government. That little girl can bring back SMART to Livonia with a good education. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 386 Registered: 08-2006 |
I thought the gateway thing was given up on when they realized legals lead to illegals. Caffeine to nicotine to alcohol. Stupid lies like dare however lead to people wanting to find out for themselves which equals more drug use. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8602 Registered: 12-2003 |
Beavis, Don't remember if you were a party to the other marijuana threads...but I consider it a gateway lie because once an adult person tries the drug they realize the government has been lying to them about the 'dangers'...which often opens them up to trying other highly distilled or man-made drugs that have immediate addictive effects on the mere human machine. I once had Cafe chastise me for this speaking this stance on the board, because some unstable teen might be encouraged to try it...but I'll be goddamned if I'll soften my hatred of this modern prohibition of personal use for that intangible a potential reason. Those teenagers are going to discover pot without my endorsement of it...just like they discover sex whether their parent's admit to screwing to get them into the world or not. The true issue is whether we as a society are capable of teaching individuals to learn their own limits and stay within moderation in ALL things...and never turn to some distraction of substance or people abuse when pressed or stressed. Hell, it seems society is built to allow excesses in every way a person can be distracted from good...while ignoring the MOST important things in life. Almost like they WANT us to be miserable and drunk/stoned and yearning enough for love to think we can get it through casual sex...let alone pressured enough by the simple struggles of life to chase after it ALL, or just live quiet lives of desperation in front of our TeeVees getting fattened for the slaughter. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 389 Registered: 08-2006 |
Beavis, Don't remember if you were a party to the other marijuana threads...but I consider it a gateway lie because once an adult person tries the drug they realize the government has been lying to them about the 'dangers'...which often opens them up to trying other highly distilled or man-made drugs that have immediate addictive effects on the mere human machine. Thats exactly what I was getting at but just like you I have difficulty putting the thoughts in my head into a readable, understandable format. | ||
Corktowner Member Username: Corktowner Post Number: 12 Registered: 06-2006 |
Please visit: www.norml.org/ for more information. And contact your local representatives and senators to let them know you are fed up with the government spending billions for the war on drugs which they will never win, and instead start collecting billions in taxes for the sale of marijuana. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1330 Registered: 12-2004 |
I support the war on pot, since it ticks off the pot heads. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 395 Registered: 08-2006 |
I can hardly smoke now because of probation but that just forces me to abuse far worse drugs which cause far worse problems for society. As for ticking us off- NOPE. The war is a minor inconvience at most. I could call about 5 different people right now and have a bag in my hands within 30 mins. So keep fighting the good fight..... | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 121 Registered: 03-2007 |
Short-term memory loss is good for you. So is all of the weight you gain from the munchies. Look at Carnie Wilson. You program yourself to munch with pot and when you are down or quit, you still munch as if you were still high. All drugs program you. This is why it is so important to take drugs under the supervision of a "knowledgeable" doctor. Pot is a recipe for stupid anyway. It really messes with your ambition as well. You tend to sit around and giggle about nothing. WOW, MAN!!! OK, I'll say this as well. ALCOHOL IS ALSO A RECIPE FOR STUPID. IT'S CHEMICAL COMPONENTS ARE ETHER AND WATER. Long-term use causes diabetes, cirosis of the liver, and dimentia. Sorry!! (Message edited by ladyinabag on March 20, 2007) | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 398 Registered: 08-2006 |
Are these the same doctors that give meth to 12yr olds under the guise of treating ADD? How about the same doctors who prescribe drugs 80 times more powerful than heroin to people who don't really need it? No thanks. That 2 years of ritalin fucked me up more than pot ever has. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8614 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ladyinabag, You said, and I quote so you cannot edit it away: quote: Memory is not a problem when pot is used moderately. I'm down to my high-school weight, after 25 years out. Weight gain? Not with most of my friends who smoke, and MOST of my friends smoke at least occasionally. The ones who don't are in the minority, by design. Your habits through LIFE program you. I could say the same against squatting in front of a television for anything longer than a movie or ballgame. Ingest anything and everything with awareness of how it affects YOUR psyche and productivity in life. Food included! Your anti-pot bias is glaringly wrong, I know hundreds of productive middle-class smokers who are solidly ambitious and brilliant. Please try again. Just because it may not be FOR YOU, does not mean it doesn't work for everyone. I, for one, am greatly enhanced creatively with a very minor medicinal dosage continually applied. I also fast off of it monthly and quarterly, even staying away from it completely for five years after my born-again experience. Now, after maturing and seeking good and God constantly over a twenty-year span...I realize this is a gift from the Maker. It grows naturally from the ground, and used in MODERATION in the appropriate times is more than very useful. All things in nature can be useful, IF used within their safe dosage requirements...but even WATER can be toxic if abused, 2.5 gallons is the limit for most folk. It is the mere human distillation and synthesis and profit-taking of natural herbals that needs to be regulated more fiercely. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8615 Registered: 12-2003 |
Drug companies should NOT be able to patent the active ingredient in herbals that have been used from time-out-of-mind by aboriginals or indigenous populations worldwide. Once they do, they fight to eliminate availability of the natural substance...how in the hell have we allowed this silliness?! | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 399 Registered: 08-2006 |
lady-adding on to gannons points, 1. It's been proven watching t.v releases endorphins in your brain so technically it is a addiction. 2. There are THC receptors in your brain why would god make a socket if there was no plug? | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8616 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh, good one. Socket-plug, mind if I use that?! Ritalin is related to mescaline?! They give it to old folks to perk them up, young folks to calm them down. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 286 Registered: 11-2006 |
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob ------------------------------ ------------------------------ -------------------- here's my take on this... ...wait...what? OMG that made me laugh out loud for the first time today! I'm still laughing! Thanks Udmph! | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 401 Registered: 08-2006 |
go for it. use it! As for ritalin it is technically a phenethylamine so it chemically kind of simaler but as far as I am concerned NOPE completely different drugs. One releases and stores excess amounts of dopamine in the brain and is a neuro-toxin. Mescaline reacts primarily with serotonin and possibly a tiny bit of dopamine and is in no way a neuro-toxin. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2406 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: Geez, Detroitplanner! How could you not know about that one? It was in the comics section of every newspaper in town. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 402 Registered: 08-2006 |
http://www.erowid.org/cgi-bin/ chem_compare/chem_compare.cgi? LM=_ph_methylphenidate_ia_meth ylphenidate_2d.gif&RM=_ch_mesc aline_ia_mescaline_2d.gif | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 81 Registered: 02-2007 |
"Pot is a recipe for stupid anyway. It really messes with your ambition as well. You tend to sit around and giggle about nothing. WOW, MAN!!!" Wow, Ladyinabag is stupid. By her logic, alcohol is a recipe for stupid. IT messes with your ambitions as well. You tend to get violent and agressive and drive your car around killing innocent people. WOW MAN!!!! | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 413 Registered: 08-2006 |
By her logic, alcohol is a recipe for stupid. IT messes with your ambitions as well. You tend to get violent and agressive and drive your car around killing innocent people. WOW MAN!!!! ^sadly thats not too far off! | ||
Island Member Username: Island Post Number: 30 Registered: 01-2005 |
What? It's not legal? | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 125 Registered: 03-2007 |
Blort- Lowell frowns on name calling. I stated an opinion and I'll stand by it. I DID NOT call anyone specific any names and I would not do so. I am not stupid for staying away from drugs and alcohol....nor am I so stupid as to get into arguments with addicts in denial. (Message edited by ladyinabag on March 20, 2007) | ||
Michmeister Member Username: Michmeister Post Number: 143 Registered: 10-2006 |
Legal,illegal...scheissegal. It`s only illegal if you get caught. | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 126 Registered: 03-2007 |
....or, illegal is nothing more than a sick bird. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8651 Registered: 12-2003 |
LOL. I've got to remember that one. Lady, I think you are smart for choosing your life path, just allow some the latitude of the same choice of a different path. Not all users are addicts, comments like that ARE less than smart. Cheers! | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 128 Registered: 03-2007 |
Gannon- I know what you are saying and I don't want to get into it with anyone. I CAN'T drink or do any drugs. I will not elaborate, but just let's say I am "well done"....as opposed to "medium rare". (LOL)....and, by the way the "illegal" line was my fathers. Gannon- A user is an addict in denial. Trust me. (Message edited by ladyinabag on March 21, 2007) | ||
14509glenfield Member Username: 14509glenfield Post Number: 591 Registered: 05-2006 |
Looked at this thread. Pot and alcohol addressed repeatedly. Just wondering if anyone ever got "busted" for any illegal contraband. Could be contrvived as a invasion of the Bill of Rights (privacy). But I'll bet "some place,some where" forum members got caught on Candid Camera. I have my own. Move the new thread to Non-Detroit. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 425 Registered: 08-2006 |
Lady- thats exactly the trick to walking the fine-line DONT BE IN DENIAL. The more you lie to yourself and others or rationalize your actions to yourself, the more your personality starts to split and then lose accountability for your actions. THATS when the real problems start! | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 83 Registered: 02-2007 |
"Blort- Lowell frowns on name calling. I stated an opinion and I'll stand by it. I DID NOT call anyone specific any names and I would not do so. I am not stupid for staying away from drugs and alcohol....nor am I so stupid as to get into arguments with addicts in denial." I didn't call you a name, I made an observation on your intelligence based on the bogus opinion you have concluded on the drug at hand with aged- old myths and false stereotypes. Maybe you're not stupid though, maybe you just have a backwards opinion on subject of marijuana. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8692 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ladyinabad, I will NOT trust you. If I didn't trust my own MOTHER in her obsession over this issue, you don't stand a chance. You are brainwashed. I am merely enjoying nature in moderation. God is good. If you bring it up again, I'll have to UP my denial a few notches. Heh. Cheers! | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 329 Registered: 03-2006 |
It is interesting that people advocating legalization always seem to mention the fact that it could be taxed as being a good reason for supporting that point of view. 1. Since when has giving more tax revenue to government really solved anything? 2. Lots of activities, some of them that would be quite harmful to society, could be taxed if made legal. That doesn't mean we SHOULD make them legal. 3. I would assume the tax rate on pot would be as high or higher than the tax on cigarettes. That would mean that much of the sales would be done "off the books" so to speak using the distribution network that is already in place. So, instead of going after these people for drug dealing we would be prosecuting them for tax evasion. The people I know that have had major drug problems indicate that pot IS a gateway drug. Legalizing it would seem to legitimize the use of drugs amongst young people even further. Parents would be losing a valuable tactic when trying to discourage drug use in their kids. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 436 Registered: 05-2005 |
and guess what the *gateway* to pot is.......alcohol and cigarettes | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8706 Registered: 12-2003 |
Gent, They have only bought the g-man's line, it is not a gateway itself, rather their continual LYING about it makes a gateway to other things. The gateway is the LIE, not the natural herb. Parents should be encouraging their children to learn their limits in all things and learning to control their OWN lives...not rely on some other's judgement that has questionable motives. Cheers! | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2209 Registered: 07-2004 |
Ladyinthebag take my advise don't bother. Beavis has related that he keeps a pillow and a blanket in his car so as not to intefere with his substance use..................no problem there! Save your pleas for those that have a bit of insight into the idea that drugs of any kind rob physically, emotionally and spiritually; there are plenty of prospects. This is one of those things that people best learn for themselves. Move on it aint worth it. | ||
14509glenfield Member Username: 14509glenfield Post Number: 615 Registered: 05-2006 |
Just curious. NORML was mentioned way earlier and got it's largest exposure with "HIGH TIMES"..the magazine..in the mid-70's. The bickering forces will be doing this exact same thing 30 years from now. Reefer Madness (although antiquated) addressed the issue on the silver screen in the 1930's. Unresolved..still debated..Will it ever be on anything else but on a forum? Before you pull the tab-top, twist off the Smirnoff cap, pull the cork....all state approved now. How would "legalized" pot be sold. Again. It may never be. | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 86 Registered: 02-2007 |
"2. Lots of activities, some of them that would be quite harmful to society, could be taxed if made legal. That doesn't mean we SHOULD make them legal." But you are forgetting marijuana is not dangerous. Annual Causes of Death in the United States 2000 Tobacco - 435, 000 Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity - 365, 000 Alcohol - 85, 000 Microbial Agents - 75, 000 Toxic Agents - 55, 000 Motor Vehicle Crashes - 26, 347 Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs - 32, 000 Suicide - 30, 622 Incidents Involving Firearms - 29, 000 Homicide - 20, 308 Sexual Behaviors - 20, 000 All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect - 17, 000 Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin - 7, 600 Marijuana - 0 Source: Mokdad, Ali H., PhD, James S. Marks, MD, MPH, Donna F. Stroup, PhD, MSc, Julie L. Gerberding, MD, MPH, "Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000, " Journal of the American Medical Association, March 10, 2004, Vol. 291, No. 10, pp. 1238, 1241. http://www.csdp.org/research/1 238.pdf | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 331 Registered: 03-2006 |
Gannon - You seem to be ignoring the role of psychology when analyzing destructive behavior. When someone does something "over the line" and doesn't suffer any immediate negative consequences, they tend to move on to more destructive behavior in the belief that "they can handle it." Of course parenting is important, but as any parent knows you can't be with your kids 24/7. If pot were legally available on every corner it seems to remove much of the stigma against using it. I am all for liberty, but after personally witnessing the destruction of dozens of lives due to drug abuse, I don't see how making them easier to obtain makes things better. Legalizing pot seems to be putting us on a track to legalize more harmful drugs, which has enormous ramifications in terms of public policy. (Message edited by perfectgentleman on March 22, 2007) | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 332 Registered: 03-2006 |
Blort - The report you linked to doesn't even mention marijuana, you tacked that on yourself. To claim that pot never causes any deaths at all is preposterous. Their have been many car accidents caused by being high where people have died. I admit the number is probably less than alcohol. Here is a section of the report you seem to ignore: "Illicit drug use is associated with suicide, homicide, motor-vehicle injury, HIV infection, pneumonia, violence, mental illness, and hepatitis. An estimated 3 million individuals in the United States have serious drug problems. Several studies have reported an undercount of the number of deaths attributed to drugs by vital statistics; however, improved medical treatments have reduced mortality from many diseases associated with illicit drug use. In keeping with the report by McGinnis and Foege, we included deaths caused indirectly by illicit drug use in this category. We used attributable fractions to compute the number of deaths due to illicit drug use. Overall, we estimate that illicit drug use resulted in approximately 17000 deaths in 2000, a reduction of 3000 deaths from the 1990 report." | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 132 Registered: 03-2007 |
Perfectgentelman- Take Citylovers' advice to me. In cases like these, people have to learn on their own. Besides, arguing with active addicts about the addiction that they are in denial with, is like trying to go to the bathroom after eating 10, one pound bricks of cheese (MoTown simile). | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 333 Registered: 03-2006 |
Ladyinabag -Agreed | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 426 Registered: 08-2006 |
citylover- I keep a pillow and sleeping bag in my car so I don't interfere with the rest of society. Do you think I would rather sleep in a cold backseat or my own bed when I could just as easily turn the key and drive home? I learned the hard way that drunk driving affects more than just me. I don't want someones death or injury on my conscience. Last time I checked ALCOHOL was legal. If I take all these precautions for this imagine what I do for the more dangerous ones. Most would call this at least half-assed responsible but on dyes..... p.s. I think I am going to keep a metal garbage can lid and a fire extinguisher in the trunk too. I need something to fend off the pithforks and torches |
