  Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1263 Registered: 03-2006 |
it's pretty much legal in California, and I didn't see too many problems, The age old adage of weed being dangerous is a bit outdated. Certain drugs are legal or illegal for reasons other than how dangerous they are. Take tobacco, that stuff is sick, alcohol poisoning? happens all the time. Weed poisoning? never happened ever. In the pill crazy USA we believe whatever TV tells us. Too bad TV is only owned by 5 corps. Make tobacco illegal and free the weed! | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 87 Registered: 02-2007 |
Either way, you won't find a documented source of anyone dieing directly from marijuana. The hypocrisy of having beer pushed down our throats every time we see commercials is puzzling to me. We tell our kids "drugs are bad", then you turn on the TV to hear "this Bud's for you!". Well which is it? Are kids suppose to accept this lie when they get older? "Pop open that beer hunny, makes you look good and feel good." | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8616 Registered: 10-2003 |
These two from the stats above are pretty telling: Alcohol - 85, 000 Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs - 32, 000 All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect - 17, 000 So all illicit drugs (even the worst of the worst) only result in 20% of the deaths from alcohol. I think marijuana should be legal (medicinal or otherwise. I have a question for those that think marijuana should stay illegal: Do you believe that alcohol should be criminalized? If not why is there a difference? | ||
14509glenfield Member Username: 14509glenfield Post Number: 623 Registered: 05-2006 |
Beavis1981 Do you have a "funny"? Meaning something that happened back when? Reflecting on it so you can laugh at it now? Ever been "busted?" | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 88 Registered: 02-2007 |
"I have a question for those that think marijuana should stay illegal: Do you believe that alcohol should be criminalized? If not why is there a difference?" Excellent question. I am curious to the responses for this one myself. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 430 Registered: 08-2006 |
Has anybody ever noticed the whole point of ANY alcohol commercial is- party in a bottle? | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 431 Registered: 08-2006 |
14509- I don't even know where to start on that one. The most recent one involves me saving a girl from a benzo/pharm/heroin O.D. with a crack rock. I would go into it but I'm not in the mood to fend off the villagers right now. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 433 Registered: 08-2006 |
perfect- marijuana is everywhere! For some reason once it is legal it is easier to keep out of the hands of minors. Like I said in a previous post a bag was far easier to obtain at 15 than a bottle. lady-best of luck to your sobriety, but I have seen that side and can't or will not do it. I identified this condition I call "empty eyes" in "reformed" drug/alcohol users about age 12. It's where you can look through there eyes and see nothing but the backs of their skull. I couldn't figure it out for the longest time. If they are reformed on off drugs why do they look eerily soul-less? Maybe the damage was already done from drugs? NOPE. Then the answer dawned on me one night. Conventional rehab teaches you that however many years you were on drugs was a waste. Forget about it, block it out, and move on. NO. Even though you were high you still had real-life issues to deal with. It was not a complete waste it was your life! Blocking out a part of your life blocks out a part of you which takes away part of your soul. Remember the past for it is who you are but don't chase it or get stuck in it because you will only be running backwards- Aj (crazy drug-induced proverb) | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 843 Registered: 08-2006 |
"Do you believe that alcohol should be criminalized? If not why is there a difference?" What's the consensus? An old girlfriend would frown on my LEGAL beer drinking, but was a regular pot smoker. My buddy's wife is the same way, she would get after him all the time about his drinking until he quit and joined AA, of course she still smokes weed everyday. Do all regular pot smokers have this same superiority complex over people that drink? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8623 Registered: 10-2003 |
I have also known pot smokers that believed the same. I am not asking on an individual basis but on a basis of legalization or criminalization of marijuana vs. alcohol; just the pros and cons of one being legal and another being illegal. | ||
14509glenfield Member Username: 14509glenfield Post Number: 630 Registered: 05-2006 |
Jt1 Ditto | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 436 Registered: 08-2006 |
I think all advertising should be illegal. And instead of dare they should show a 3hr long video that contains the cliffnotes of the life of a bunch of middle-aged alcoholic, cokehead rockers. People love there booze to much to outlaw it. We tried it. The result was more crime, wasted police resources, death/injury from inferior product. SOUND FAMILAR? | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2210 Registered: 07-2004 |
Beavis just so you know I have not bothered to read all you have posted here.I don't have the time and I am not interested. And this will be the last I post on this thread. What you are doing is typical.You think you are doing something noble.You are in typical fashion compromising for the sake of being able to drink and get high.........do you think this is a fresh idea? The world is littered with these types. .." I got caught drinking and driving so I quit driving or I take a blanket and pillow with me" ..." Who needs to drive" ....A back seat of a car is a fine place to sleep"... My wife/girlfriend said I had to stop drinking and getting high" .....Who needs a wife?" ..." My boss said I had to be on time" ...." who needs a job"...... Don't think I am trying to persuade you in any way I am not.Just understand what you are doing is a very old and predictable reaction by someone who is afraid to stop drinking and getting high. | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 137 Registered: 03-2007 |
Beavis1981- I am sorry that you became bored in your sobriety. I am thinking that you didn't stay straight long enough to recover. I am happy straight....especially when I look around me and see all of the heartbreak that drugs and alcohol has caused. There is a new series on HBO called "Addiction". One of the shows stated that the most vulnerable to become addicted are teens and young adults from the ages of 15-24. This was when it happened to me. I know how it happened....peer pressure, trouble at home, and just wanting a fast change of mind (I wasn't maturing fast enough for me....I wanted to "see". Well, in my abberated little head, I didn't like what I saw....and it carried over when I came down). I could go on. But, I will leave this quasi-first step table for the next meeting. I know how active addicts think. This will become a power argument that can escalate to name calling....just to shut me up. So, don't bother. I will shut up. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 440 Registered: 08-2006 |
Cl said- Don't think I am trying to persuade you in any way I am not.Just understand what you are doing is a very old and predictable reaction by someone who is afraid to stop drinking and getting high. Tell me something I don't know! All I was saying is at least I try to destroy just myself not others. All I ask is leave my life be and I will do the same. As for "noble" no way! Every time you pop in with a quip I am forced to post a lengthy defense. Then your tone disapears and semi-respectful converstion is had. As much as you try to "type" me the last post is the closest you have come. My habits may be typical but I am far from it. Beleive me I have not sacrificed anything important in my life job/family/friends in a long long time. anyways nevermind, I'm rambling again. Rock on and roll out-aj | ||
Spaceman_spiff Member Username: Spaceman_spiff Post Number: 54 Registered: 02-2006 |
My three cents... 1) Smoking anything is bad for your health, including weed. 2) The most intelligent, reasonable, open-minded, considerate, thoughtful, motivated and capable people I have met in my life have either tried weed or not... some smoke many times a day. I have never seen any uniform trait shared by potsmokers... unless it is an agreement that smoking pot is enjoyable. 3) I do believe that pot should be legalized, laws exist to protect, and pot, in my opinion, does not endanger society. -spiff 3) | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3254 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Has anybody ever noticed the whole point of ANY alcohol commercial is- party in a bottle?" You're onto something there...Take a look at alcohol ads for a while....There's really only 3 kinds: 1. Alcohol makes you young and beautiful and causes you to be surrounded by friends and laugh all the time. 2. Alcohol makes (beautiful, young) women want to have sex with you, because it makes you very handsome and sophisticated. 3. Alcohol is beautiful (ads with bottle/drink only...obviously aimed at those who already consume heavily.) You never see a booze ad with an old, unattractive person, or a couple guys fighting, or a wino enjoying a bottle in a bag... The semi-legal pot thing in CA is going through some issues, as some of the "Pot Pharmacies" are doing some aggressive marketing.... I like the idea that lowell posted a while back... Decriminalize it , ban all advertising. (Screams heard from ad-agency whores). | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 441 Registered: 08-2006 |
Lady- with all due respect if carrying around a little plastic coin in your pocket makes you feel like you have accomplished something good for you. That life is not for me. I have been kicked out of many a "meetings" for "disrupting". The sheepple who make up this crowd discust me. I find it funny that with the tap of a razor blade and a well placed snort cokeheads will start to feind. Talking about cold, frosty beers will make alcoholics drool. My brain is not hardwired this way at least not yet. I once quit a summer-long ecstasy binge cold-turkey with no drugs but weed for 2 months no E for almost another year. I've been playing with the fire that is heroin for almost 4 yrs without a major addiction. Just knowing I can put it down and suffer through the withdrawls where others would crumble and cry gives me a "ego high" This is where I find my clarity when my body is in pain but my mind is clearing. I need the ups and down of this lifestyle to not be bored. That is all. Once again good luck to you but no argument is going to cure me. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 442 Registered: 08-2006 |
Oh yeah do this make me an asshole- definetly. A major one. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 443 Registered: 08-2006 |
Barnes- I not sure of the product (possibly zima) had a commercial where two guys were standing around one in a suit, the other in boxers. The dressed up guy looks at the boxer guy. He then holds up the bottle then says- Are you going to the party like that? what party? Then he cracks the bottle and attractive women are everywhere and music is jamming. | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 139 Registered: 03-2007 |
Beavis- I've never been where you are. Good luck!! And. I'm proud of my coin. You're in mucho trouble, bro. You will be in my prayers. (Message edited by ladyinabag on March 22, 2007) | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 444 Registered: 08-2006 |
No trouble, I've done bottemed out. My best friend died and that haunts me everyday 3 yrs later. All that can possibly be worse is my incarceration or death. The only consulation is I have saved 2 lives since. And jail really is not that bad there is a freedom in knowing you have hit bottom. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 445 Registered: 08-2006 |
btw I would like to hear the prayer that contained the word beavis! no thats some funny shizznit | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 91 Registered: 02-2007 |
I will even take the argument one step further and say alcohol is just as bad, if not worse than cocaine. When I say that, people think I'm nuts, but when I explain why, they think a little harder, but their minds are still programed to think otherwise even though they know damn well what the truth is. | ||
Wfw Member Username: Wfw Post Number: 194 Registered: 03-2004 |
Wow, this thread has taken some strange and disturbing twists. My two cents - adults should have the freedom to put whatever they want into their bodies & brains with no interference from the government. Like everything in life, various substances have pros and cons, though some are certainly more dangerous than others. But as adults we should have the opportunity to make our own decisions about how we live our lives, and if that includes smoking/snorting/boozing/tripp ing etc, then so be it. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 339 Registered: 03-2006 |
Wfw - What your ignoring is that many of these substances are very addictive, so people commit crimes to fund their habit. Many also receive government benefits as a result of their addictions. At this point their "freedom to put whatever they want into their bodies" becomes a burden to society. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 446 Registered: 08-2006 |
Blort- you are right at least cocaine has a medical use of a local anesthetic for eye surgury. People in the andes chew coca leaves to overcome their oxygen disadvantage. In natural form it is as safe as coffee. However, I feel I have 'jacked/derailed this thread enough so I will bow out now. | ||
Arrogancy Member Username: Arrogancy Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2007 |
Yes, but people commit the crimes because the illegal nature of the drugs makes the price ridiculously high. People are even more or just as addicted to alcohol and cigarettes as heroin and cocaine, and yet, mysteriously, there isn't the same amount of violent crime associated with them. I WONDER WHY. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8715 Registered: 12-2003 |
The way the crime statistics falsely INCREASE an association with drugs is the way they collect the data. NOT to say some people in powerful drug addiction might not do desperate things, but there is a much better way to deal with them than make them criminals because of their inability to control what they consume. Most have never been taught moderation, which can be learned. Outlawing the substances naturally produced is simply assinine...forces people to become chemists, experimenting with man-made stuff. You happen to choose to do wrong, yet have a joint in your pocket? It is a drug crime. It is all manufactured bullshit to prop up the status quo...personal use prohibitions need to be removed from the books, JUST like they finally repealed the Prohibition Amendment that was passed through smoke-and-mirrors. End personal use prohibition in all forms, go away Federal Government from MOST aspects of life...get back to the original design, regulate inter-state commerce, protect our borders, relate with other countries. Go the fuck away, Federal Government. Take your DEA and all of the other military/industrial structured police agencies, and put them to work defending our country. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 847 Registered: 08-2006 |
I can see both sides, should some one of sound mind be able to choose to destroy thier life with addicting substances? Sounds reasonable. However if you are a parent of a child nearing adult hood wouldn't you wish these substances were a little harder to get ahold of? | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 441 Registered: 05-2005 |
yes, I wish alcohol and cigarettes were harder to get ahold of! | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8717 Registered: 12-2003 |
NO, I would like all of our children to know exactly what these things do to their psyches, and how they can be drawn into excess with any of them...even the more benign ones like, say, food and caffeine...then learn how when almost anything consumed in excess over time can cause irreparable harm to the body. Moderation in all things, we should all be free to discover that. | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 140 Registered: 03-2007 |
Beavis1981- It's not about the name. It's about the soul....and, if you had bottomed out, you would be doing something about it. You haven't bottomed out. About being bored....life isn't a constant whirlwind of activity....or as my dad used to say, "a maniacs' dream of perpetual motion" (he said this when referring to The Mahavishnu Orchestra, but it seems fitting here). You are way off balance because of the drug use. You need rehab. What you DON'T NEED is methadone. The come down off of methadone is worse than the one off of heroin (I like the way the black people pronounce heroin.... HAIR-ON, like the bird). Regardless, here is more evidence that mixing drugs leads to heroin use. I wish that there was something that I could do for you. But, from experience, I know that there is nothing that I can do. It's all up to you. All I know is is that God has something for you. But, He can't work through you if you are stoned. You have to become free and then make a commitment to Him. With me it was the guilt. I was taking away more than I was giving. He has something for you to do....something that will not make you bored. Trust HIM. I swear, He's the only way out. | ||
Wally Member Username: Wally Post Number: 261 Registered: 12-2003 |
I say legalize the cabbage, and DON'T tax it! Why are there always people ready to take it in the shorts with more taxes? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1475 Registered: 10-2003 |
Legalize and give it to you for free, right, Wally? This thread is a great way to identify the freakin' dope-smokers on the forum. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 454 Registered: 08-2006 |
lady-Since you insist on typecasting its my turn. You are middle aged,single, and broke. You started doing drugs to fit in now your quitting them to fit in with your aa/na cronies so they don't shun you. You probably spent a good portion of your good years doing things you didn't want(I'm trying to keep it pg here) to for alcohol, coke, and whatever pill was around. But through aa/na you learned that you are a "addict" and therefore "powerless" and not responsible for your actions. Waaaaa Waaaa Waaaa wo is me. But thats alright god will save you! Just grab that coin in your pocket and pray/ask him for strength or serenity. Don't you think god did enough by creating you and the world around you? Leave him alone for a day or two! You chose the decision to do drugs YOU can choose not to do them. Addiction and powerless are scapegoats nothing more. You spend hours a day at meetings and praying for strength. The highlight of your days often include going to group and bragging about your "triumphs" so you can win their admiration/acceptance. When you really think about drugs still control your life. You just don't do them anymore. Not everybody will end up in my situation with proper parental supervision. However I don't blame my parents because they had bigger problems to deal with. I do however thank them and my circumstances in life which led me to a few independent thoughts in my head unlike you. As for methadone, WRONG AGAIN! I detest it for two reasons- 1. It is a EASY out for hopeless cry-baby addicts. 2. It is toxic and turns a 2 day withdrawl into 2 weeks. at least heroin is semi-natural and it breaks down into natural morphine. Leave me be! you are not strong enough yet to deal with me. No doubt the playing fields will level IF we both continue on our same paths. So go regroup with the cronies and get back to me. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8725 Registered: 12-2003 |
Legalize it so I can add it to my herbal garden without concern. Beavis, Back off a wee bit and realize how the anti-folks have touched your button. Not every person who quits is a twelve-stepper, and not all twelvers quit...but they at least LIKE to talk a good deal of that which they miss, most of those meetings are sorry circles of people STILL fascinated by what natural chemicals tickle in their bodies, and they despise those of us who can enjoy nature in moderation and not have the same troubles. Let her stay in her bag, she is at least comfortable there...and YOU remember where your comfort lies. It's all good, we can have differing opinions, as LONG as we don't force them on each other. Or is that my opinion that I'm forcing upon YOU?! Damn conundrums. Cheers! | ||
C_p Member Username: C_p Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2006 |
There is no way weed is habit forming, I should know, I've been using it for decades. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2213 Registered: 07-2004 |
Love it c_p beautiful. Ladyinabag rememebr what I advised you?........move on Don't subject yourself to Beavis's crap it is as old as the hills. Remember what you know is what you have learned for yourself.......thinking back I am certain you willl agree that until you "knew" what you now know no one could have convinced you of anything. Pray for Beavis if you want it is not neccesary for him to know what you are doing. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2214 Registered: 07-2004 |
Gannon when and for how long did you attend twelve step mtgs? | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8730 Registered: 12-2003 |
It is as old as the hills, because it is true. As old as nature, that which provides us with this wonderful stuff. Pray that we ALL achieve moderation in all things, and perhaps help with our judgemental attitudes. | ||
Themax Member Username: Themax Post Number: 615 Registered: 09-2005 |
If the government regulates MJ, then it will determine how much THC each cigarette will have which may not set well with everyone. Has there been any studies done to determine how many MJ smokers use only MJ and how many use other drugs too? Saying you use drugs because you're bored sounds like a cop out. The human brain is capable of so much creativity and there is so much about the world to learn, I don't see how anyone could be bored. Now dealing with stress is another matter. Any substances that pump you up like caffeine or bring you down, need to be used with care. In the end, everyone has to decide how fast their treadmill is going to run. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8731 Registered: 12-2003 |
CL, My mother lived with me on and off for many years, although she started on that path when I was in high school. I helped her start the Al-anon group near Holy Redeemer, and attended many meetings with her at her insistence. Read their books, looked at their philosophy. Thanks for checking. The only ones who made ANY progress at all were the ones who were touched by the Spirit when they finally accepted that there HAD to be some 'Other' outside our perceptions that for whatever reason wanted us to be free from addictions of the simple stuff He/She/It created for our pleasure. (oddly, they were the ones who also understood the cyclical nature of mere humans, as well as the concept of NOT denying somebody something...as that immediately made it desireable!) My path to meeting this Being took another form, but I realized that they ended up at the same place, I'm just devoid of all the TRAPPINGS of that group, as I'm aware and against the trappings of organized religion. Now the Lord is that Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty/Freedom. Read that behind a statue again today...and I thanked the One Who Made Me for the freedoms I have to fully engage the smile muscles I also was gifted. | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 94 Registered: 02-2007 |
I'm curious.... The anti-folks always call people who use different drugs "dopers" or "pot-heads". So on the flip side, is everyone who enjoys drugs such as beer an "alcoholic" or a "drunk", or a "junkhead"? | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 145 Registered: 03-2007 |
Citylover- He doesn't bother me. He's of the opinion that I have gone to meetings for the other peoples' acceptance. But, he is absolutely wrong. Ten years before I went to any meetings, I joined the Pentacostal movement with The Catholic Church. We did something called a "healing of memories" confession....where you asked the Holy Spirit for the vision to see the people that you had hurt, the people who had hurt you, and with this vision, asked for forgiveness and to forgive. This method cleared out my old hang ups....making me free to be able to work for The Holy Spirit. I am not saying that I am divine, but all of my old hang-ups are gone and I can SEE (thank you, Holy Spirit). I had been sober from 1978. In 1991 something bad happened to me and I slipped for six months. I then went to AA when I realized that I couldn't stop on my own. It was then that I realized that I was an addict. I worked those steps dilligently....and it had nothing to do with anyone there. I was doing it for myself....to stay clean. By the way, I also found that those 12 steps were very like the preparation for that "healing of memories" confession". I later found out that one of the two people who wrote those 12 steps was a catholic nun....the other one was Bill W. I worked hard on my sobriety....by myself and to impress no one but God....as I was begging him to make me whole again. I don't go to many meetings today. But, if I ever feel that I want to use, I have a place to go and a whole group of fellows to help me get passed the temptation. I am content in the knowledge that I did what God wanted. I am picking myself apart constantly. And, IT'S ALL GOOD. I hope that I don't sound like a pontificating boor. But, I have to give praise to Him for giving me my life back. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8733 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lady, That seems the only way you'd have success against something that plaques you...just don't assume that what happens to be YOUR achilles heel is also everyone else's. I hope I'm not misunderstood, I take NOTHING away from the course of learning one's path, except that once it works for one person...mere humans sem to want make rules out of it. I am against the rules being made, which then seems to allow them to be used as weapons in the wrong hands...same with the rule of law, but I digress. Then, if someone doesn't happen to respond to those rules, there are so-called defined results...and I just don't think mere human nature works that way. We might have similar trends, but not a one of us works exactly the same. If I may re-state clearly, IF a twelve-step program gets a person to a point where they can gain control (via acknowledging that they for that moment HAVE no control and need serious spiritual help, healing, and guidance) and then allows them to grow to the point of NOT needing the group...then I have NO argument. (and I apologize IF I sounded as if I dismissed them out-of-hand, I do NOT and hope this post clears up any lack of language previously) It is the habit of addicts then becoming addicted to the group, and then simply ONLY talking about whatever thing tickled their bodies enough to build a psychological hold enough to be obsessed with it...that merely makes them a stronger target for THAT thing to be a problem again...or they simply then stick any convenient thing into that addictive 'need'. It is the addictive NATURE that needs addressing, not the thing. A thing is a thing, and things are not evil. It is what you do with that thing...the person is able to do good or evil with MANY things. You cannot say food is bad, but some even become addicted to IT! Same with sex. Same with naturally fermented beverages. Same with naturally occurring drugs. Same with chocolate. I could go on ad nauseum, but I hope you get my point. Somewhere deep inside, I realize there are about thirty buttons of potential distraction from God, and we each are sensitive to at least ONE of them that can potentially become a problem if we are never taught to recognize and deal with the excessive and/or reactive use (read: abuse) of them, and the ONLY way I know to deal with them is via the Holy Spirit. I try to draw the line between naturally occurring stuff and that which is highly processed by man. I'd rather ingest a Guinness Stout than a shot of Jagermeister. I know marijuana has quite a different effect on me than cocaine. Of course, though, I drink espresso rather than coffee, but I've heard many differing reports of whether it has more or less caffeine than coffee...either way, I'm only putting a shot of it into my body in the morning...and almost NEVER later in the day...so it is probably moot. In the past year, I've tried to only eat natural foods, and am not at my high-school weight...with an immune system SO strong it seems I can dictate when some bug leaves my system that knocks others off their feet for weeks.h Learning moderation in all things, or avoidance of that which you cannot gain control over...and we ALL have some thing that fits that category (for me, I simply cannot have sweets around the house, or that is all I eat)...should be the main thing any counseling or group aims for with each individual. The main thing is, we're ALL unique, with our own chemistry, life experiences, etc....and I see where many of these twelve-step groups fail, and then how they don't mind folks failing as long as that continues perpetuating a false need for the group. Lady, Very good that you know that you got to the place where God wanted you to be, I am just against you THEN saying we all need to be in YOUR place. That is the only time you sound like me, a pontificating bore. We will praise Him together...sincerely. Cheers, with our water glasses, John | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 341 Registered: 02-2007 |
OOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKK. In a nutshell, can someone explain all the issues that have been discussed about pot Being Legalized and the opinion people had about them? | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 147 Registered: 03-2007 |
Gannon- The first three steps are the acknowledgment steps....where you realize that you are an addict and get ready to work. The next six steps are the work steps. The remaining three steps are the maintenance steps. I have never said that everybody has to go the way I did. I just told how I got where I am. (Message edited by ladyinabag on March 23, 2007) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8736 Registered: 12-2003 |
Why, can't you read?! Do you deserve an executive summary? Who are you, Karl? Oh wait, he doesn't deserve 'em either. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 342 Registered: 02-2007 |
Well you folks have 170 posts that are the size of novels (ESPECIALLY YOU!). I can read, but I'm not researching through the discussion because y'all don't know how to summarize. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 343 Registered: 02-2007 |
Summarize AND Compress your thoughts. This is a discussion site, not book writing class. In discussion, it would be polite to compress your thought and make them brief, but straight to the point. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8737 Registered: 12-2003 |
The steps don't work unless you notice and allow the Spirit to work. It is the appeal to God and allowing the flow that does the 'magic'... My post above was for Urbanize's silly comment, didn't see yours above until now...gotta hit refresh more often, or address people specifically all the time...hope that you didn't catch my post by mistake. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 344 Registered: 02-2007 |
Ignoring particular discussion members, could someone tell me or summarize what were talking about here? I would love to join in, but not sure what topic were on in the discussion (I mean whose point are we feeding off of and what is it). | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8739 Registered: 12-2003 |
Urbanize, Kiss my ass. How is THAT for polite?! Communication of COMPLETE thoughts with precise language is very important to me, and my mind works linking associative topics from one tangent to another...if my lengthy posts trouble you, do what most do and skip right by them. You can even avoid me in public, as some have taken as habit. Not my loss. I will ignore any and all criticism of my many words, I am well aware of my wordiness. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 722 Registered: 11-2004 |
Summarize it yourself by reading it you lazy dumbass. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 345 Registered: 02-2007 |
Eric, why are you even calling me out of my name? Did I even say anything to you? No. So could you please respect me. Gannon, your slurs isn't hurting me. You're being the ignorant one using "heavy" words over a situation that could be handled differently. I asked nicely. As for the complete thoughts stuff, there's a way to compress a complete thought, so don't use that as an excuse. I always try to compress my responses or mentions when I type. See, now you have me hi-jacking the topic, which was something I was trying to completely avoid. So go ahead and act out, as this will be the last time I respond to it. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8740 Registered: 12-2003 |
Me... quote: You... quote: quote: quote: Sorry, I didn't understand that my words made you unable to join in. So we BOTH have handicaps, I take back my kissass comment. Just don't complain again to me, I am unable to change my ways. Thanks! | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 350 Registered: 02-2007 |
One thing, I don't COMPLAIN to anyone. Don't talk down to me like I some child. I am a grown man. Now, you responded to my question negatively, so I got on you about it. It's not your words, it's the length of your posts. NO ONE wants to read posts that are a whole reserved Forum page long. Now, don't interrogate me again like that and we'll be just fine. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2215 Registered: 07-2004 |
Gannon I find it hypocritical and just a bit more than ironic that you would chastise Ladyinabag about her desire to make others conform(I agree) and then in effect do the very same thing by criticizing anyone that continues to go to twelve step meetings even in to long term substance abstinence........guess those are yor rules huh? ___________ in short what the hell difference does it make to you? The fact is that the overwhelming majority of people that have long term sobriety and lapse in meeting attendance and then relapse likely would not have had they kept a regular meeting schedule. Besides your take is as old and predictable as Beavis's; believe me we have heard it............again and again. Ladyinabag I prefer to minimize my knowledge of AA.But you are misinformed.The steps were written by Bill Wilson with help from Bob Smith and countless recovering AA'ers........the nuns you may be refering to were the nuns at the hospital in Akron where Dr.Smith practiced.They helped him find alcoholics to try his new found way with but they did not in any way write any of the AA literature.You may read about the history of AA in several books usually available at most meeting locations. My relevant points are these. Beavis is being manipulative.I am simply calling him out on it.I have never told him he should stop doing what he is doing.But in fairness to him I think it right to tell him that bringing a blanket and a pillow with him in his car so driving will not interfere with his need to drink and get high is nothing to be proud of and in fact illustrated a substance problem. As for praying for him as I said he does not need to know. In fact forgive me but it smacks a bit of egotism.........and as I said there are others ..........you know where they are. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8741 Registered: 12-2003 |
Alright, back off, grown man. In re-reading this thread, I only increased my language content for Ladyinabag because she and CL were not getting my point. Because CL and I have gone over this in extreme detail in the past, I could NOT let anyone think I dismiss Twelve Step programs out of hand. I was NOT going to start an entire thread about that...it would be silly and nobody would get the context. I now restate my comment, please kindly kiss my ass. While I would never say that to a child, except for that statement how have I talked down to you...that is how YOU read it, how YOU took it, grown man. I spoke precisely and clearly...I am unable to speak succinctly. Doing so leads to WAY too many misunderstandings, of which I cannot willingly partake. You should be more aware of your handicaps if you are grown up...heh. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8742 Registered: 12-2003 |
NOT, CL. I am ONLY saying that the program does an individual a disservice IF they are not trying to get them strong enough to leave it. If you want to remain weak without the Holy Spirit, that is your choice...I fear God weeps when his most independent creation seeks to remain enslaved. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1268 Registered: 03-2006 |
If pot were legal you guys would be to baked for all this bickering | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8744 Registered: 12-2003 |
Only if we abused it...I rarely get 'baked'. tiny-maintenance-medicinal-dos e-atcha! | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2216 Registered: 07-2004 |
Gannon once I was with some twelve step friends.One related that his sister had said to him .." You still go those meetings"?!!... to which the more experienced friend in these matters informed us that she was simply saying to him .."Do it my way" ... __________ live and let live Gannon.Are you demanding that it be done your way? Equating reliance on a twelve step group with drug and alcohol addiction is a bullshit argument and I will call you out on it every godamned time. If, as you say we all have our own paths then we all have our own paths.Some find there paths may lead them to an AA/NA mtg every day .......live and let live. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8747 Registered: 12-2003 |
I am not demanding anything, CL. Once again, we must agree to disagree. From my perception the program most often merely replaces a chemical addiction with simple caffeine and company from other humans. As long as they admit that, I'm fine with 'em. Bumping into the Spirit of God IS the only path to enlightenment, I don't care what you call It or how you get there...and way too many of our mere human endeavors speak a good game of it but seem to do their damnedest to NOT show their poor, trapped sheople that simple fact, let alone how to get there. It is very Zen-like, the struggle is in the release and acceptance of something one cannot define or perceive directly...I would just like to see an end to all the struggling. Whatever, I'm going to go up to the Lager House and enjoy a good pint or two and listen to some music...and work those smile muscles. Livin' in the city... | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 456 Registered: 08-2006 |
WOW. A lot happened since I was gone. I am busy house-sitting in a happy little nature preserve. Lady- I obviously did bother you because your tone changed QUICK. You thought you were going to have a easy kill. My life is not for you but I'm not trying to force it on anyone. You are. BTW if you really have been sober for 20 years shoudn't you have a metal coin by now? Once again best of luck to you, thats not for me. I would say I'd pray for you but I like to be direct when I belittle people. As for anyone else who might be wrestling with abuse, Try This- Go out drink 2 beers with lunch as soon as you get a little buzz and the urge to "rock" go home. Now go do A line of coke then quit and go home. Repeat process as needed. You will eventually erase that destructive brain wave that causes you to fiend/impairs your judgement. However, with AA you activly fight that brain wave until its locked away in a closet. So for ladyinabag the potential for destruction is literally around every corner. As for CL (by the way I call my oxy-lady CL for "crazy lady". He is just pissed off people like me exist. It makes it harder to classify every drug user as a hopeless stupid junkie. Personally I don't think not doing something is anything to be proud of either but alas we get to here about that. For what it's worth he seems like a decent guy. He doesn't have the pre-programed left/right wing answer button most on this forum have. As for gannons advice to "back off" I will. I usually don't go to that level of asshole but when pushed I push back. That simple. | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 149 Registered: 03-2007 |
Beavis- You have absolutely no clue as to what it is all about. You just don't get it. This is why I am straight and you are not. Evidence? Sounds like it to me. Citylover- It's not about ego, but if he knows that I am praying for him maybe he will snap to the fact that there is something wrong and I do care. Which I do. He just can't come to my house (LOL). Gannon- I am beginning to respect you a lot. But, don't swear because Lowell is going to get mad. Urbanize- You jumped in here and said that you were refusing to read the thread and started arguing with us because we didn't condense it for you. What is your problem? READ THE POSTS IF YOU WANT TO HANG!!! It's called RESEARCH!!!! ENGLISH I!! Jeez!! (Message edited by ladyinabag on March 24, 2007) | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 458 Registered: 08-2006 |
cl was right. who the fuck do you think you are preaching forum edicate to a guy with 8,000 posts. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 459 Registered: 08-2006 |
My life- GF of 2 years is in love with me and I with her. Wonderful family. Even got 4 people I would call true freinds and about a dozen other "drug buddies". I am 6'1" 175lbs and bike ride about 50-150 miles a week. More than part time employment and probation to end are the only things I want to change right now. I am also sitting on a hilltop (I can see pine knob from here). Watching 4 deer and a dozen turkeys mill about the yard. There are also 2 ducks swimming around the pool. Ladywithbagoverheads life- Lonely, dried-up old bitter hag. She exists probably on welfare with no job. No real freinds, No real family. Most likely section 8 housing as well. Probably a skinny underweight shell physically. Hey, but at least she is sober! I have asked you repeatedly to leave me be and agree to disagree. But you won't so this is what you get. YOU DON'T GET IT! You don't have to be sober to live a fulfilling life. It helps but is not a pre-requisite. I was sober for 3 months when I first got on probation. You all lied and I am pissed. Life did not get any better and I did not get any smarter. No magical door opened up from sobreity. I spent less time looking for lost keys and had slightly more energy. Thats it. Honestly. So once again for the millionth time- leave me be, and go cry to your 6 cats and AA cronies. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2139 Registered: 07-2004 |
It amazes me that this thread has gotten so many hits(pun intended). But seriously, would any of you who favor the legalization of marijuana want your surgeon to tell you that he takes a hit of weed to calm his nerves just before he or she is going to perform major surgery on you? Think about it. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 460 Registered: 08-2006 |
Urbanize- This thread derailed into monkeys flinging shit at each other (me being one of them)about a hundred posts ago. Read about the first 70-80 posts and go from there. We were orinaly dicussing the pro/cons of marijuana legality. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 288 Registered: 11-2006 |
Royce quote: But seriously, would any of you who favor the legalization of marijuana want your surgeon to tell you that he takes a hit of weed to calm his nerves just before he or she is going to perform major surgery on you? Think about it. Kath's response: HELLZ YEAH! Last thing I want is a nervous surgeon!! | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 152 Registered: 03-2007 |
Beavis- Touche'. Do your thing, man. We are both happy....you probably more than I. I can tell. I saw two geese today on an island in the middle of Featherstone Rd. The female had laid eggs and the male was standing guard beside her. I pulled over and said to the male goose, "Hey, man. I don't think that this is a good place for you to have your nest". Then I pulled off. Do you think that they will be there tomorrow? Tune in, same time; same station. By the way....I am on welfare, I have 8 different children by 8 different men, I am dried-up, I am skinny, I am lonley, I am a lesbian, fish are jumping, and the cotton is high. Your daddy's rich.... (Message edited by ladyinabag on March 24, 2007) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8748 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh my goodness...I'm laughing at what's transpired also in my absence. Thank you ALL for the education and entertainment...I've grown from this discussion. I would count the ways, but would then be truly guilty of lengthy posting, which is yet another thing I learned. I've had people say things/comment/complain before but never with the caveat that it derailed the conversation enough to make it undigestible. Thank you sincerely, Ubanize, please don't take my reactionary 'fuck off' wrong! (giggling as I type this, because if you were at an imbibing establishment I'd buy you a drink in an attempt at reconciliation, of course even THAT lame gesture stands to be taken wrong by any who may not care for or enjoy fermented beverages, obviously MUCH worse if they had a problem with an addiction to them...it could be seen as insult, temptation, or ill-will...directly the opposite of my innocent attempt!) So...lengthy posts notwithstanding...this has been a fruitful conversation for me, and I hope and pray for everyone else as well. For the record, Lady, I don't have anywhere NEAR the same imaginations of your life as Beavis...heh. You absolutely killed me with your signoff above. Your momma MUST be good lookin'...but we've got an entire season until we can sing that song. (just like Moondance is only really proper in October, heh) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8751 Registered: 12-2003 |
BTW, My Livonia Friend and I were discussing this thread at our regular Saturday morning breakfast club...and he brought up yet another hilarious observation, of which he is gifted. By MY asking for those within the Twelve Step group to admit to replacing their chemical addiction with one of going to meetings...I've merely asked them to take that first step! | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 96 Registered: 02-2007 |
"But seriously, would any of you who favor the legalization of marijuana want your surgeon to tell you that he takes a hit of weed to calm his nerves just before he or she is going to perform major surgery on you? Think about it." Wouldn't bother me, if it helps him relax so he can do a better job. | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 153 Registered: 03-2007 |
Gannon- It's all good!!(LOL) | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 461 Registered: 08-2006 |
I'm done flinging poop. It stinks in here.... It just occured to me we have not been discussing pot or anything remotely legal in a long time. Lady- If you truly have 8 kids that changes everything. You no longer have the luxury of just providing for yourself. BTW my "daddy" is a body mechanic. His dad was a WWII veteran. Please do not bring my family into this ugliness again. The house I'm in right now is nice but the one I live is rather modest and run-down. I rented for awhile then moved back in due to my present legal situation. Damn, 8 kids though? Thats go to be tough but as with anything hard I am sure there are rewards or "moments" that make it worthwhile. I do want to apologize for saying I was better than you because I had more money or lived in a bigger house. Thats not right. I am sorry. You sobered up and are a better mother for it. That's something to be proud of. Anyways, all that has changed is a bombay gin and tonic, giant uber-huge burrito, washed down with corona and a joint. Well see which post the viewers think is more digestable. Now you are going to say if I was sober I would not have to consume to come to these conclusions. NO The empathy that comes from the use of marijuana and psychedelics is un-matched and I treasure it. Empathy is not a fun thing. Anyways I concede I'm going to do dome yardwork while the sun is still shining. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 462 Registered: 08-2006 |
I am a lesbian, fish are jumping, and the cotton is high. Your daddy's rich.... Please explain that one though. Am I missing something here or did you actually try to talk to a goose? | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 154 Registered: 03-2007 |
I actually did pull up and talk to the goose today. Last year I fed another goose couple while she was sitting on her eggs. I later came up on them as a fox was carrying off the hatchlings. What a drag that was. Poor mama just stood there honking. I almost cried. The rest of it I am not going to explain because you insulted me when I was sincerely only trying to help. But, I should have expected that. I was out of line to say anything. But, The Book Of Wisdom says that if I do not say anything that I am responsible for you if anything happens to you. So I said something and now I am not responsible anymore. So there. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2140 Registered: 07-2004 |
What other effects does marijuana have on the body besides calming one's nerves? Aren't the effects similar to getting drunk from alcohol? Remember the commericial, "This is the paper you thought you wrote while smoking marijuana, 'The Founding Fathers met in Philadelphia to create the Constitution.' This is the paper you actually wrote, 'Yeah, there were these dudes and they said, 'Hey, let's form a country.'" Again,if your surgeon smoked marijuana before he or she perform surgery on you and you knew it, would you be OK with that? | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 155 Registered: 03-2007 |
Royce- When I smoked pot I couldn't concentrate. I don't know about anybody else, but, I started a new job one time and I tried to read the book that explained the job while I was high. I kept reading the same sentence over and over and couldn't understand it. I knew then that it was time to quit. I would read the bible and think that I was cogniting on all of this deep stuff. Then I would come down and it wouldn't mean anything like I thought it did. To me, pot sucks. It's aberrating. (Message edited by ladyinabag on March 24, 2007) | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 463 Registered: 08-2006 |
Since your still pissed and won't answer my other question would you at least indulge me as to your drug of choice? | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 464 Registered: 08-2006 |
^former | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 289 Registered: 11-2006 |
Quote Royce: Again,if your surgeon smoked marijuana before he or she perform surgery on you and you knew it, would you be OK with that? :end quote: Again, yes. | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 156 Registered: 03-2007 |
Alcohol and Pot. The other stuff was too far out for me. Coke made me too hyper. Heroin overtook me. I like to be in control. LSD made me extremely paranoid. I never smoked Crack, Crank, or took Ecstasy. I had already done enough damage by the time those drugs "were released". The worse drug I ever did was Angel Dust. That was terrible stuff. I wish that I never would have done that. It left me with very bad memories. It's evil. I don't have 8 kids. I'm sorry. But, you said all of those things and I was being facetious with you because you hurt me so I put you on. You know how it is. (Message edited by ladyinabag on March 24, 2007) | ||
Harpernottingham Member Username: Harpernottingham Post Number: 152 Registered: 04-2006 |
Dennis Kucinich wants to legalize it: http://kucinich.us/issues/mari juana_decrim.php | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 294 Registered: 11-2006 |
all of the posts lead me to believe that all mind altering drugs are completely personal in their effects. Lady and Beavis, I would love to have you two meet and discuss your experiences. I bet the two of you would really like each other and could learn from one another. Just an idea. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2217 Registered: 07-2004 |
Because I said I would I am calling Gannon out again on his bullshit argument that a twelve step program is the same as being addicted to drugs or alcohol. That is a tired ass argument Gannon. And so fucking predictable.Honestly it gets trotted out all the time.It has no credibility and frankly I expect more, a lot more from you. So every time you post that crap I will respond. I am not here to evangelize to anyone.But when mean spirited completely errorneous crap like that which Gannon posts about the nature of twelve step programs is presented I will be here to counter it. Ya don't have to like it but neither do you have to lie about it. |
