Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Mayor pursuing more charter, private schools Previous Next
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 1043
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 1:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Though I was a Hendrix supporter, I've really come around on Kwame. A couple of months into the Mayor's second term he started to impress me.


http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20070326/NEWS05/ 303260001
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1044
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 1:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

interesting
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2148
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 2:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The mayor simply realizes that in order to attract families back into the city or to keep the ones that are here, there has to be some type of school system that people will put their faith in. Very few people have a lot of faith in DPS right now.

Also, the mayor has no control over what goes on in DPS. As a result, he has to fight for an alternative. Charters are the logical alternative.

The problem is not all charters are what they are cracked up to be. I interviewed for a teaching position at University Prep Academy. Their teaching philosophy was that students would work on projects through out the year and learn from doing these three to four projects a year. Teachers would teach all subjects to the students, even in subjects that they were not certified to teach. Lastly, they didn't use TEXTBOOKS. That for me was the turning point, and I basically told them at the interview that I wasn't interested.

(Message edited by royce on March 27, 2007)
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 546
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 3:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought this was the faaaaaaaaaaaar more impressive and moving story, also by Riley:

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20070326/COL10/3 03260002

Kids in Detroit taking pride in the city?! Whoa. Let's hope they honor those pledges.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5667
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 8:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KING KWAME is for EVIL Charter schools than DPS. He wants to have more of them in the Detroit ghettohoods since DPS is in shambles.

Recent reports for schooldigger.com said that Detroit Charter Schools are in the rapid enrollment growth. In SW Detroit Cesar Chavez Academy and Phoenix Academy experienced rapid student enrollment. That includes other mostly Black charter schools in Detroit and suburbs. DPS needs to compete against this corporate academic system for the American education system is not by the government anymore but by imperialist competition.
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Jonnyfive
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Username: Jonnyfive

Post Number: 15
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 12:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At some point it seems the charter schools will render DPS moot. Anybody know statistics on number of charter and private schools with enrollment versus the DPS?
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Jonnyfive
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Username: Jonnyfive

Post Number: 18
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 1:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found one article reference from the Free Press in 2002. It said in 1990 there were no students in Detroit attending charter schools. In 2000 the student enrollment in detroit was 171,000 and by 2001 about 19,000 of them were in charter schools.

On Wikipedia there is a reference to a Detroit News article (no longer available) stating that there are 54,000 charter school students in detroit.

Does anybody else have up to date statistics?
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 828
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 1:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This of course is the right thing to do.

For too long the real issue of "educating children" has been filtered by a group of special interests that have not had the children as their primary interest.

Focus on educating the kids and use whatever vehicle is available to do the best job.

By the way Rymeswith... that is a great article. I was just thinking the other day that if you took something like Dan Gilbert's bizdomU and focused it on at risk school-age kids, providing them with both mentoring and the "connections" for success in the business world... with the only cost to the kid being the agreement to come back and do the same for the next generation Detroiter... you could go a long way towards instilling greatness in the next generations.

These guys were already on it... good for them.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 548
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 2:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Irish, I just wish that someone would do for Detroit what that wealthy benefactor did in Kalamazoo: Everyone who graduates high school and does well on the MEAP gets a free ticket to college on him or her. Granted, there are a lot more kids in Detroit than Kalamazoo.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 509
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 2:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Forget charter and private schools.
Its time for the Metropolitan Detroit Public School board, covering Wayne, Macomb, and Oakland counties.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5669
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 2:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Miketoronto

That would be a problem The school districts in the entire Metro-Detroit area is run within their own enviroments and keeping the tax base down. Having the combined Metro-Detroit school district is would dramatically increase the huge tax base in which most of the folks don't want to pay. Then comes the issue of race. Some white folks in the suburbs don't want 10, 50, 100, or 1,000 black kids to be transfered from the ghettos of Detroit to near or far schools in their area. Also fewer black parents in Detroit or suburban communities don't want to pay more taxes to school of choice that their child is going. It's better for a child of any color to go to any parochial, public charter or nearby neighborhood school or their choice and pay cheaper taxes. So this proposal will NEVER happen. Not in 1,000 years as long as educated ideological stronghold is in place for historical perfect reasons.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5670
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 3:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also Miketoronto, take a look at the factual data of Southfield High School.





and Pleasantview Elementary School in Eastpointe.




The blue color represents black student population while the purple represent white student population. When the white folks leave, black folks fill in the void.
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 832
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 4:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Forget charter and private schools.
Its time for the Metropolitan Detroit Public School board, covering Wayne, Macomb, and Oakland counties.
______________________________ _________________

That is an absolute recipe for disaster taking the succeeding districts down to the lowest common denominator helping all students gain a subpar education.

Indeed, we are already under a bit of that yoke now courtesy of Prop A.

Mike, I like Toronto. I like your beer....education ideas like this though are best kept North of the border.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2152
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 4:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rochelle Riley has an article in Friday's Freep(3-30-07) where she interviewed the mayor about his promotion of charter and private schools in Detroit.
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Opus
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Username: Opus

Post Number: 39
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 8:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

King Kwame just wants everybody to do what he wants them to do. This has nothing to do with education, and everything to do with control. By the way, the small problem here is that Charter and Private schools can turn away kids they don't want. They take the publics money, but set parameters. The public schools however have to take anybody that is in their district. So, what do you do about the kids the charters and private schools won't take? Kwame isn't concerned about these issues, he just sees shiny new schools and shiny new campaign contributions.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5702
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 12:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Opus is right! Charter Schools these days can have the power to discriminate any student based upon race, sex, religion and grades. While Public schools do not.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1424
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 1:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kwame's biggest point is a valid one. If Detroit is to fully come back and improve, education needs to be a priority. If there are not quality schools, then a great downtown and stadiums is not going to fix it. For the neighborhoods to come back and stop people from leaving, they need families. Families go where their children will have good schools. Kwame sees this as a solution.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2936
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 2:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

By the way, the small problem here is that Charter and Private schools can turn away kids they don't want. They take the publics money, but set parameters.


Apparently, still more revisionist history is being spread as being fact.

The private schools are not publicly funded. That concept is known as school choice--something that doesn't yet exist in Metro Detroit.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5705
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 3:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bob,

In order to do that. The people of Detroit must do action and not talk and playing race cards.

Any typical Detroit family in their own ghettohoods must get up and stand up and start cleaning up themselves first, then start cleaning up their homes and businesses and ghettohoods. Next do go out the suburbs and tell the suburbanites that Detroit is nice place to for families and businesses to live, work and play. The we need to go out the global community and reach out to foreign countries like China and Japan and India and tell them that Detroit is where the action is at. Detroit must compete in this imperialist capitalist American society in order to survive And I seen the EVIL CHARTER SCHOOLS in Detroit and suburbs are doing a excellent job competing against Detroit Public Schools. The DPS must do the same if their education system wants to survive. Detroit will NOT get any better unless the people take action or else our government will do the work for us.

Back on ancient Greece. Socrates used his philosophy to train his students so that they think for themselves. And thinking for yourselves leads to freedom and prosperity for all mankind.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5706
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 3:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard,

There are school of Choices in Michigan. LIKE EVIL CHARTER SCHOOLS, PRIVATE AND PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS and of course DETROIT PUBLIC SCHOOLS. I do remember back in 1996 that the DPS school bus terminals were NO LONGER shipping students of any school of choice academies. What would those academics would be? CHARTER SCHOOLS at the time it ILLEGAL to operate before the Charter School bill pass in 2002.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 644
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 3:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the schools should be under control of the Mayor, then at least we can hold someone accountable for their failings. Since that isn't the case then charter schools are a good option if it means the end of DPS so be it, the fittest will survive and ultimately it will be to the benefit of Detroit's children.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5708
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 3:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mayor_sekou,

HAHAHAHAA!!!!! Detroit Public Schools under control by the mayor, you got to be kidding! I'm glad the Proposal E didn't pass. If it did then King Kwame would call the shots. He can't handle 3 positions at the same time while this whole Detroit is in financial debaucle. As for right now he made a new other while he gave a speech a local Detroit EVIL CHARTER SCHOOL. He wants more Public charter schools being built in the hood. He knew that DPS is dying and students the flighting. So he's affirmative for DCS! and negative for DPS. In the matter of fact he probably took his kids out of that Detroit Public Schools and took them to Conner Creek Academy in Warren, MI.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 646
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 3:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you kidding? What is the benefit of DPS having the monopoly of education in the city? Competition brings out the best in anyone and I think that a little comp from THE EVIL CHARTER SCHOOLS could help DPS become more efficient and if they fail then so be it the best player won. All that matters is that Detroit students get the best education possible and they aren't getting that right now.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4000
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 3:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Um, LY...

Kids that go to Charter Schools take their state funding with them to the Charter School, and the school they left loses that funding.

Unlike Parochial Schools (which is private tuition, no state funding), Charter Schools do get state funding.

And also kids living in one school district are able to go to schools in another district (as long as the receiving district has room and accepts the student), also taking their state funding with them.

These are Engler legacies.

(Message edited by Gistok on March 31, 2007)
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5714
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 3:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...and it working too perfectly out of state lottery system.
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Maxcarey
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Username: Maxcarey

Post Number: 73
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny -

were did you obtain those graphs?
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 5716
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 4:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I did my research, Maxcarey. The Ghettoman said that you must take up inventory and look for factual data before you write or say something online. Keep it objective, deductive and inductive reasoning.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2238
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 7:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charters are here to stay.At least we don't have the usual suspects lining up on this thread to demonize the charters as they waylay the public schools or at least they would have us believe that.

I have mentioned it before but I am close to someone that sets charters up. This person is a born raised and educated Detroiter.She taught in the DPS and has had various administrative positions all over the country. She is a democrat union supporter thru and thru..........but...... after retiring was asked to set up a charter program. And the reason she took the job was simple.Inner city kids deserve an education; a decent education.For whatever reason they have not been getting it in the public schools.She makes no high flying claims on how well charters do.They do better in some cases not as well in others and about the same elsewhere........the point is they are here to stay.

The Dps already has at least one school chartered so when any of you scream about charters remember that. There are advantages to charters.The most obvious I can think of is that a kid attending a charter is more likely to have involved parents.Each charter is it's own self contained school system.

The Dps are not going anywhere, neither are charters.Ya all might as well accept and welcome them they are here to stay.
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Lvnthed
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Username: Lvnthed

Post Number: 77
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 9:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny,

You are a sad little person who finds much pleasure in being a bigot. You would be slightly credible in your posts if you could learn to refrain from all of the loaded comments. I am sure that a person with your sense of self could learn to speak in plain english, or was it hate 101. Your Ghettoism's are unfounded and unwelcomed. I would hope that you find the strength to fight the demons that have turned you into this thing that hates everything Detroit. I don't Know what city you reside in. But I can assure you that it didn't take people from the city to turn those outer-ring subs into dumps. It was people who think like you that turned warren to shit 20 yrs ago. A bunch of racist PWT crackheads worried about the black people coming to their neighborhood. Stick to what you know best; Being A Customer!!!
For thirty years I have watched people like you come into my city and singlehandedly bankroll the destruction of my old neighborhood. And to this day the caravan of cars, taxi's, work vans, and bikes make their daily trek to the city to get their fix. You leave your money and beat it across 8 mile to the privacy of your smoke house. So please, spare me the rants about Detroit and worry about you and yours.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2937
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 12:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Um, LY...

Kids that go to Charter Schools take their state funding with them to the Charter School, and the school they left loses that funding.

Unlike Parochial Schools (which is private tuition, no state funding), Charter Schools do get state funding.


Duh! I stated that private schools are not funded by the state. So, why bring up the obvious about charter schools that wasn't germane to my statement? Apples and oranges, though both fruits, are still different...

That one poster said that private schools are publicly funded--which is BS. A charter school is sort of a hybrid, though. But again I didn't say anything about them because anybody whose brain is above the age of reason in competency should be able to know a helluva lot about charter schools by now simply from osmosis and ordinary awareness.
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Maxcarey
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Username: Maxcarey

Post Number: 74
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 11:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny

I was wondering if there is an online source that has more than just this district you listed. I was hoping that you could direct me there so I could look at some other districts as well (not for this argument)
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Opus
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Username: Opus

Post Number: 40
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 12:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Minor point of order, but parochial schools do get state support. They receive funding for special needs students, they receive funding for other programs. They are not totally self funding. On the flip side, I once again state that if you are going to take state dollars, you should be required to play by the same rules that DPS has to play by. This means:

1. The same testing and the same analysis of your programs. In one case a charter went from academic emergency to excellent in one year because they improved one indicator. Most schools are judged based on anywhere from 30 to 50 different indicators, they were judged on one. That indicator was attendance. And then it was discovered that they had fudged those figures. Charters always claim that they cannot be evaluated because of every single cliche under the sun.

2. They have to take any student from the city within which they operate if they have room. This means no more cherry picking. No more, get the hell out if you are a discipline problem.
Once you follow the rules, the situation becomes much more difficult to manage. Level the playing field if you want "competition" and then see what the charters are offering. They are in the business to make money, and they will cut anything they have to to turn that profit. What do you do if the school becomes "unprofitable" they will shut it down, and then what? Oh damn we shut down DPS and now the charters are leaving because they aren't making enough CASH, who is going to educate our children. OOPS!!! Just think about that one for a hot second.
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 5719
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 3:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maxcarey,

If you want factual data on every last school districts in America log on to schooldigger.com

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