Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Wayne State Library Annex Demolition Previous Next
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Hans57
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Username: Hans57

Post Number: 73
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 4:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So who knows what's going to be done with the site? With the parking lot next door, it will create a pretty big site in a prime location.
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Jonnyfive
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Username: Jonnyfive

Post Number: 22
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 4:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was shocked to see how fast that disappeared.
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Hans57
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Username: Hans57

Post Number: 74
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 4:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here yesterday, gone today. Any clue what the plans are? Parking?

(Message edited by hans57 on March 27, 2007)
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 557
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 4:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Holy crap! It's gone already?!
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 1148
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What building is this?
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8687
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The WSU library annex. Pay attention.
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 840
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a no window build at cass and prentis witha green top, concrete block no window building not to be missed.
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 822
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whoa!! Hold the f*** up!! Purdy Library is still there, isn't it? That's where I met The Little Woman...
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 119
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They are building more parking.
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Jonnyfive
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Username: Jonnyfive

Post Number: 23
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no, this is not a library, its a warehouse for the library. They stored shit there, or they used to. It was ugly. It sat on the west side of Cass just north of Canfield, but not on the corner. It disappeared recently, rather quickly.
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Hans57
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Username: Hans57

Post Number: 75
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it supposed to be a structure, Mbr?
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 2143
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nope, not Purdy Library. It's the Federal Mogul Library Annex located at 4455 Cass between Prentis and Canfield.
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Jonnyfive
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Username: Jonnyfive

Post Number: 24
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"They are building more parking."

Is that speculation or fact? It seems like after they build the parking structure for the lots they are tearing up on woodward that they'll have more than they started with. Is it really necessary?
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Hans57
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Username: Hans57

Post Number: 76
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, what Johnny said.
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Korridorkid
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Username: Korridorkid

Post Number: 80
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does it's demo have anything to do with WSU's South Village, so close in proximity?

I don't really see the feasability of a parking garage there though...University Towers is not at capacity for parking, they've already got plans for a structure on Forest near U.T to service it, and South Village and potentially at the current site of the condemned Forest Apartments.

I pray for townhomes or apartments.
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Ednaturnblad
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Username: Ednaturnblad

Post Number: 11
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes, there is going to be a parking lot there. Residents and employees of the University Tower (4500 Cass) will be assigned to park in that new lot beginning in May. Construction of the South Village project will eat up the current parking on the north and east sides of University Tower, creating a need for additional parking. The Forest Apartments (on the north side of Forest between Cass and 2nd) is also slated for demolition late spring, and a parking lot will be created there before the return of students for Fall term.
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1805
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Username: 1805

Post Number: 24
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From my understanding, it's actually planned to be a parking structure. I have the site plan on my computer at home. Probably to make up for lost space that South Village will take up in Towers lot as well as the future phase of S. Village that would be sited on the Canfield side of Towers lot.
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 844
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When are they going to b uild there replacement APT on the forest lot?
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4183
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They can't renovate the Kresge Purdy due to the cost and the design. It needs to come down, but the $$$ just isnt there to build a new one.
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 846
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

poor carrick apt surrounded by wsu parking lots.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5671
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YAY! Parking lots with no prime development opportunities. Look at the wonderful midtown we are creating.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 559
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

<i>WE</i> are creating, KING Danny? I didn't think you lived in Detroit?

(Message edited by rhymeswithrawk on March 27, 2007)
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Jhartmich
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Username: Jhartmich

Post Number: 24
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought it was coming down because it obstructs my view of Cass?

Whatever reason, I'll be glad when its down. I have been starring at it for 11 years.

I talk to old Ms Sommervile yesterday (90 years here on Prentis), she heard it was a parking lot until the new parking deck goes up across the street. The buyer who bought it paid for the building demolition and is allowing WSU to use it as a parking lot until they build their parking deck; then the guy is building condos.
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1805
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Username: 1805

Post Number: 29
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow. Well, hopefully that's what planned. I'll post that site plan I was talking about tonight. At least a few years ago that site was planned for a parking structure with ground floor retail -- I think. I know I'm not confusing it with another site.
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 853
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 6:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JHARTMICH where you live that your staring at it???
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3934
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 6:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember the Purdy Library back when I was going to Wayne in the late 70's. I always thought that the name was funny (G. Flint Purdy)... "cuz that library sure ain't purdy!"

(Message edited by Gistok on March 27, 2007)
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 120
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 7:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://fisop3.fiscalop.wayne.e du/wsupurch/WSU_16_061053_Fede ral_Mogul_Demolition_Drawings. pdf

*Beware this file is huge*

Not speculation.

(Message edited by mbr on March 27, 2007)
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 121
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 7:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It really opens up that area and makes Prentis more open and bright.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3939
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 7:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Mbr... but I hate unexpectedly huge PDF files.... :-(
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 495
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 8:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They should change their name to Wayne State University of Surface Parking Lots.

Their slogan should be "We Strive To Make Cars Happy".
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3723
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 8:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

They should change their name to Wayne State University of Surface Parking Lots.

Their slogan should be "We Strive To Make Cars Happy".



That is an inaccurate and exaggerated statement.

As has already been explained, across the street from this demo, is the parking lot that will be redeveloped in housing and retail in the South University Village project...

This parking lot will accommodate the displaced cars from the South University Village project on a temporary basis only. WSU has longer term plans for the site as development into more graduate housing.

Click the link to see the master plan.

Go to page two and note that the lot is to be redeveloped as graduate housing.

Hardly a wonton policy of demo for parking's sake.

http://www.facilities.wayne.ed u/mp/067-093%20sect4%20-%20Mas terPlan.pdf
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Detourdetroit
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Username: Detourdetroit

Post Number: 275
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 9:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skulker is right and good to post this link. Though still too much of a land banking big project, parking driven mentality at Wayne. Only a measly 1.75 FAR for an urban university is not good enough I say!
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Markemarx
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Username: Markemarx

Post Number: 29
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 11:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

any idea on what is up with the abandoned Forest Apartment building?
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 122
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 11:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Approved for demolition:

http://www.bog.wayne.edu/meeti ngs/2007/03-21/budgetfinance03 07_itemv.pdf
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 496
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 11:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the link, Skulker.

However, methinks that when they finally get around to building a structure on the site, in say, 10 or 15 years, it won't be the type of building that defines the main thoroughfares of the North Cass neighborhood and gives it such great character - zero-lot-line, and pedestrian-oriented structures. It will be some car-friendly building, set back from the sidewalk with green space, bushes and surface parking.

In the 10 or 15 years until then, we will get nice views (through yet another WSU parking fence) of smiling Explorers, Yukons and Durangos parking happily on fresh WSU asphalt.

(Message edited by Futurecity on March 27, 2007)
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Mortgageking
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Username: Mortgageking

Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 11:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another piece of Detroit's history demolished for a parking lot... and you people call yourselves preservationists.
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Jonnyfive
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Username: Jonnyfive

Post Number: 27
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 11:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

that was the ugliest structure on earth.
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 123
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 11:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seriously mortageking, I tried to organize a building hug a week ago in protest but no one was interested. It's a travesty, these buildings are priceless. Where on earth are we going to find another concrete block one story warehouse with metal roof and stucco siding? It was one of a king and will be greatly missed.
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 1149
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 11:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

that was the ugliest structure on earth



No way, the ugliest structure on earth is that thing in front of the Guardian building.
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Hunchentoot
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Username: Hunchentoot

Post Number: 38
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 12:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a picture I took of it in December of 2005 upon hearing of its imminent demise:

http://www.unibrows.com/images /libraryannex.jpg
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Jonnyfive
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Username: Jonnyfive

Post Number: 28
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 12:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"No way, the ugliest structure on earth is that thing in front of the Guardian building"

On the woodward side? You may be right, who thought that was a good idea? I'll settle for second ugliest.
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Korridorkid
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Username: Korridorkid

Post Number: 83
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 12:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's...just so...beautiful!

The warm setting sun playing off it's grimed over stucco walls, the exquisite black lettering, the forest green of its shrouded roof harkening back to simpler times...

Good f'ing riddance!!!
Viva Graduate Housing! (eventually)
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Detourdetroit
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Username: Detourdetroit

Post Number: 276
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 12:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I cannot vouch for the building's aesthetic or historic merit. I do have hope that a better building is in the future for that site - hopefully not in 10-15 years!

Yet, despite appearances, the building was old school underneath. great detroit red brick undergirt the unfortunate stucco applique, and a serious-man rivet gunned truss system came a crashing through the drop ceiling mess as I walked to work this morning.

A bloody pox on all of the Yukons, Durangos and Explorers that reside during classtime in the "201" and "202"!!! if i had a shiny copper for everytime I passed a WSU lot with only one or two of those horrid monsters rationalizing the need for WSU's sea of parking...
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Detourdetroit
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Username: Detourdetroit

Post Number: 277
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 12:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

good riddance to the Forest Apartments. so very very ironic that this project, heralded at the time to solve WSU's housing problems into the 21st century, is now headed for the dustbin. well it made it...just barely. about 30 years ago, people protested the construction of forest apts, whose construction rationalized the demo of a row of housing similar to what still exists on the south side of forest, as well as a significant former romanesque revival church building nearer second that was used by student groups and was a looker.

(Message edited by detourdetroit on March 28, 2007)
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 497
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 1:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, it was a proper pedestrian-oriented, red-brick building underneath all of the added-on mess.

And the ugliest building in all of the greater downtown is right across the street! The graduate housing building! Hideous monster of all monsters created by Wayne State and unleashed upon the North Cass neighborhood like a dark-ages plague.

I want to gouge my eyes out every time I look in its direction - a building that could only be created by sick and demented minds. A building that says "Wayne State not only hates its graduate students, but we also hate the entire neighborhood around it, and we're going to build this heinous thing just to prove it". And they did.

Clearly, they tore down the wrong building.

They should have stripped off the metal panel and stucco off of the Library Annex and exposed the old red brick. Then popped a storey or two on top for loft-style apartments. Maybe a cafe on the first floor.

Then they could send the blasting team and bulldozers across the street and do all of humanity a favor and demo the graduate housing building.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3945
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 1:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey!!

No, the ugliest building is that abomination that was newly built onto Old Main. Now that is butt ugly, especially in relationship to the 1896 original...

What were they thinking, when they designed that??? :-(
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2618
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 2:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Futurecity, the greatest atrocity is the surface parking surrounding the tower. The opposite of good urban design, now being remedied.

All the buildings that have been mentioned are truly ugly, but what's sad is how WSU has so many ugly buildings that are prominent. State Hall and the Student Center are horrendous.
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 195
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 7:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW, how many building are we talking about? two

The library annex and the forest apts?

The Southend article talks about the demolition of the Federal Mogul Building.

http://thesouthend.typepad.com /

Is that also known as the library annex???

*********
I just checked a WSU map - the library annex and Federal Mogul bldg WERE one and the same.

(Message edited by emu_steve on March 28, 2007)
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3724
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 9:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

However, methinks that when they finally get around to building a structure on the site, in say, 10 or 15 years, it won't be the type of building that defines the main thoroughfares of the North Cass neighborhood and gives it such great character - zero-lot-line, and pedestrian-oriented structures. It will be some car-friendly building, set back from the sidewalk with green space, bushes and surface parking.



You mean like the South University Village project and it's anti pedestrian feel?

You mean like the new dorms and their anti pedestrian feel?

You mean like the retail on Cass, north of Warren being anti pedestrian?

Like the sale and redevelopment of the Willys Overland Lofts being car oriented and anti-pedestrian?

Either you are a troll or an idiot. The track record of Wayne's most recent and largest investments are all pedestrian friendly projects. Not being a Wayne slappy, just looking with open eyes.
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3725
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 9:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

A bloody pox on all of the Yukons, Durangos and Explorers that reside during classtime in the "201" and "202"!!! if i had a shiny copper for everytime I passed a WSU lot with only one or two of those horrid monsters rationalizing the need for WSU's sea of parking...



Well seeing as up until very recently, WSU has explicitly been a commuter college at the undergrad level, taking away all those horrid monsters would cause the university to cease to exist.
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Detourdetroit
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Username: Detourdetroit

Post Number: 279
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Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 9:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

all i want is a bloody pox on Yukons... and a shiny copper!
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 498
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 1:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for calling me an idiot, Skulker.

Less recent Wayne State projects have been nothing short of a disaster for the North Cass neighborhood. More recent projects are a mixed bag at best.

The new Law School is anti-pedestrian. Somehow in all their infinite Wisdom, Wayne chose to set back the building 75 yards from the sidewalk and put parking in front of it (complete with a guard gate). Even though there is an enormous parking deck directly across the street. A horrible decision that truly gives a mediocre building that "Northwestern Highway Office Building Feel". Perhaps you didn't notice.

The Overland Lofts and 55 W Canfield are being developed privately, so they do not count. Funny how WSU unloaded both of these proper urban buildings.

I haven't seen anything built yet in the South University Village project by Wayne, so the jury is still out on that. Hopefully it will make up for the Giant Eyesore Graduate Housing dorm that they landed on Cass and Canfield.

The new dorms on Third are better than expected, but the buildings and most of the retail are too far from the street. Perhaps this was the best they could do considering the earlier disaster that Wayne State created with the demolition and widening of Third into the semi-ring road of Anthony Wayne drive - truly another major downgrade foisted upon the neighborhood.

How long has the site at Palmer and Woodward been a fenced, surface parking lot? 8 years? They demolished the historic Gleaners building on this site for what? Parking? Yukons and Durangos now happily reside there.

As stated earlier, at best, Wayne's development has been a mixed bag. Yes they bring students activity and investment. But slowly they have acquired portion after portion of the North Cass neighborhood, destroyed it through demolition, created long-term surface parking lots with fences (lovely), and maybe 10-15 years down the line build something that in the end, is still unsuited for an urban neighborhood.
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 124
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 2:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Futurecity, you don't know what you are talking about re: 55 West, Willy's, and South University Village. They absolutely count and they never would have happened without Wayne State being part of the development.

When it comes down to it, I would much rather have Wayne State controlling the vacant parcels in the neighborhood and partner with developers in the future as opposed to private individuals who may build any crappy building to get back their investment. So friend, stick with what you know which is not Wayne State development. You are probably right regarding development decisions made in the previous 2 decades but since 2000 Wayne State is absolutely on the right track and committed to their 2020 plan, which you should read.
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1068
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 2:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i agree with mbr. the law school was an addition to the existing building, not from the ground up. that's what dictated it's location on the site, not wayne state's development "practices." walk around to the other side of the building and you can see what the old facade looks like.
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3732
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 2:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are very welcome for being called an idiot..I have a habit of calling a duck a duck, so wear your mantel with pride.

quote:

The Overland Lofts and 55 W Canfield are being developed privately, so they do not count. Funny how WSU unloaded both of these proper urban buildings.


Bullshit.

55 West and Willys were sold to private developers by WSU. The developers were selected in a competitive bid process. The bids were evaluated on the ability of the developers to adapt the buildings into residential and retail reuses. The developments occurring there are occurring ONLY because the University took specific actions to make that happen. If WSU was indeed the parking frenzy ogre you make them out to be, they would have been demoed for parking, not held until developers were able to execute presales. Kinda makes me think they count.

quote:

I haven't seen anything built yet in the South University Village project by Wayne, so the jury is still out on that.



The same bid process was used for the South University Village project. Please go look at the job boards at the site to get a view of how the developer responded to the very specific conditions of urban walkability DEMANDED by WSU in their bid documents.

quote:

The new dorms on Third are better than expected, but the buildings and most of the retail are too far from the street.



Huh? The dorms and retail are less than 50 feet from the street. A simpleton looking around could see that the sidewalk in front of the dorms is a main pedestrian thoroughfare that gets quite crowded and is of necessity wide enough for pedestrian safety and comfort. Make those sidewalks much narrower during peak usage hours and they become very pedestrian unfriendly. The extra room also allows for outdoor dining options.

I really get the feeling that you would rather take a "Like fuck the man, man, like fuck 'em, ya know?" sort of approach to this discussion than a real conversation on the track record of WSU since the completion of their master plan and subsequent developments based off that plan.

MBR and RSA are spot on about the law school. BTW, take a second look at the area. 75 yards = 225 feet. I would hazard the space is 75 feet at most, or one third the distance of your dubious claim. The original law school was some distance away from the road with a much larger parking lot there. Take a look at Local.Live.com at the building and you can see just how much surface parking was REMOVED for the law school expansion.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 499
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 3:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mbr I don't know what you mean by Wayne State being a part of the development of 55 W and Willis Overland outside of unloading the properties to the highest private bidder. Did they not sell it to the highest private bidder? Why yes they did! There were even multiple competing bids for each!

And what "crappy" buildings have been built by private individuals? Canfield Lofts? The Garfield? Nine On Third? 434 W Alexandrine? The Venn? These plus many more all beautiful renovations built and adaptations built by private individuals that add much to the historic urban fabric of North Cass.

Your Law School excuse was typical. Absolutely no need for parking along Palmer, addition or not. A proper urban addition would have NO parking in front. The Law School is anti-urban, anti-pedestrian, car-oriented plain and simple.

You didn't answer about the gleaners site. Demolition of an historic structure for fenced in parking, eight years going.

You guys are part of the problem. You can't hold Wayne State accountable for all of their continued bumbling and development ineptitude.

And I could care less about a "plan". Let's see what they actually build.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 500
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 3:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I see Skulker wears the mantle proudly of Dick Head.

Retail 50 feet from the street in an urban neighborhood? What planet of suburbia are you from, asshole.

(Message edited by Futurecity on March 28, 2007)
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1069
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 3:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ummm, who are you talking to? are you being sarcastic or not? (honestly, i really can't tell)
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3734
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 3:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FutureCity:

Congratulations on becoming the Mayor of Dumbfuckistan!

The properties at 55 Canfield and the Willys were not unloaded to the highest bidder. They were sold to the bidder that presented the best adaptive reuse scenario, which interestingly were not the highest bidders. They took deliberate actions to ensure their redevelopment into buildings that respected the urban fabric. WSU is very much to be credited with the redevelopment of those buildings.

Seeing as building more square footage than is needed is financial suicide, what do you feel should be in front of the law school's now greatly reduced parking lot?

The Gleaners build was in terrible shape and would have required extensive upkeep. Sometimes old buildings are nothing but a money drag with no hope of redevelopment. In that case, it is better to remove the building, not waste money and redevelop when ready.

If my recollection is correct the funding for the administration support buildings to be placed at Palmer and Woodward are up in the air as I am led to believe the purchase of the old School Board building (gasp! an old building bought, updated and reutilized) has absorbed some of the uses intended for the adminstration building proposed for the southwest and northwest corners. Does anyone have any further insight?

BTW FutureCity, did you forget the TechOne building? Clearly another example of the University not getting urbanity.

You should care about a plan. Banks don't lend until they have scrutinized blue prints and had their construction consultants check every figure twice. If they try building something other than the drawings the banks will pull the funds and all hell will break loose with law suits. Its pretty safe to say that once the bulldozers start their work and the bank has closed on the deal, what will be built will look very very much like the "plan"....
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 1150
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 3:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Congratulations on becoming the Mayor of Dumbfuckistan!



I'm gonna have to use this one.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 501
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 3:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skulker=Liar

They were in fact sold to the highest bidder. WSU's agent had the two finalists in a bidding war against each other that went on for the final two weeks. I was there. That's the way it happened.

And any decent urban-minded architect could have designed the Law School so it didn't look like it belonged on Northwestern Highway. Give me a break.

And, fool, a "masterplan" is not a drawing that is used for bank lending. The set of drawings for the actual building is what is used and are often quite different than what was on a so-called masterplan. It appears that you have no idea what you are talking about and are just making things up as you go along.
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 125
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 3:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skulker is right, you are a moron.

"WSU's agent had the two finalists in a bidder war against each other that went on for the final two weeks. I was there."

No you weren't.
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3735
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 3:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you were indeed there or that close to the project you would know there were bids higher than the final selling price that were not in the final round...because those bids had other plans for the sites that did not respect urbanity or had poorly qualified bidders. Therefore they did not sell to the highest bidder. The sold to a qualified bidder willing to pay a price higher than a similarly qualified bidder.

Still waiting to hear how you would have designed the space that did not add extraneous squarefootage or what resolution you would have for the space other than parking. The solution is either a building that comes out in a perpendicular manner to reach the sidewalk where only a fairly narrow section of would be adjacent to the sidewalk , making it awkward and ungainly ....or a building grossly over sized for the needs of the law school and no-one needs to waste money like that at a public university..

There is a missed opportunity for a landscaped lawn and or garden at the parking lot, but the building as it was built makes sense for the needed uses and connectivity to existing buildings.

Listen dumbfuck, I am talking about the construction drawings for the South University Village, not the university master plan. If you are unable to distinguish between the two, you have no qualifications to ever post on a topic like this again. Banks lend only when architects and engineers have completed final drawings and cost estimating. If a developer tries to build some other than what was submitted, they are in default of their loan and the bank will stop the project and seize the land. Not a hard concept to grasp.

In that discussion I was referring to your skepticism that the South University Village would not be pedestrian oriented as it is very clearly represented in all plans, documents and renderings. renderings and plans that were used to secure bank loans. If you are unable to read context, well, there ya have it.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 502
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 4:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fuck you mbr. I was there. I saw the bids. I took the calls from the agent. You really are an ass as well.

You WSU apologists are militant as fuck. No wonder so much of the North Cass neighborhood has been destroyed. You guys must be on their payroll.
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Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3736
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 4:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Fuck you mbr. I was there. I saw the bids. I took the calls from the agent. You really are an ass as well.

You WSU apologists are militant as fuck. No wonder so much of the North Cass neighborhood has been destroyed. You guys must be on their payroll.



So I really don't understand how if you truly "took calls from the agent" [what ever that means] how you can be completely unaware and non-cognizant of the RFP process and conditions for sale of the two buildings...something doesn't add up.

Christ you are a pshyco...militant? apologists? How about realists sweetie cakes....

How about disinvestment going back 50 years has destroyed most of the city and many portions far worse than North Cass...

Ironically, the North Cass area is one of the most intact areas of midtown....while WSU in the past was not a friend to walkable urbanity, as this militant apologist has already pointed out on this thread, their track record over the last 7-10 years has been quite good actually.

quote:

I haven't seen anything built yet in the South University Village project by Wayne, so the jury is still out on that



The militant here is the obsessed freak that is paranoid Prime Development is going to build something other than what the banks have approved...fucking nutjob...
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1071
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 4:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

whoa; somebody's off their med's.

sorry future, but i'm not buying it either. unless you were on the board of wayne state that approved the bids or a winning developer, it doesn't matter what you saw. i've worked with some of those developers and have to concur with skulker; the highest bid did not win.

and you're completely ignoring the realty that he keeps bringing up; what alternate way could you make the law school so that it didn't turn out completely unuseable or astronomically expensive?

other than that, i'm just not buying what you're selling. i think wayne state has done a pretty good job at redeveloping that area. especially into an urban campus (remember, that's it's primary function?). it's a lot better than the vacant lots and brutalist structures these buildings are replacing.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 505
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 4:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skulker, I stand by my original statements. The highest bidder OF THE TWO FINALISTS through the RFP process DID WIN. AND the two finalists were forced into a bidding war gainst each other to up the final sales price. That is a fact. You have no idea of what you are talking about.

And rsa - the vacant lots WSU is building on are vacant because they demolished the historic structures that were originally there!
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3737
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 5:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually RetardCity, you are back peddling and obfuscating and NOT standing by your original post.

First you said that WSU had no role in enabling good development and merely sold some lbuildings to the highest bidder. They did not sell merely to the highest bidder. There were bids higher than the final offer paid. Ergo they did not sell to the highest bidder. How fucking hard is that to understand?

The tone, tenor and wording of your post further implied WSU acted out of greed to sell the land for highest value and that they did not care one whit what happened to the site. In fact, they did NOT sell to merely the highest bidder but sold to a bidder willing to develop the land in their vision, which of all things is walkable urbanity and adaptive reuse. The RFP was carefully crafted to solicit such bids and they instead chose a lower selling price to achieve that goal rather than a higher selling price to have something that contravened their carefully crafted vision fo the buildings.

To ask to qualified bidders with plans that meet your vision to bid up land is smart business and responsible activity for stewards of public land to take. I would be sorely disappointed if WSU did either of the following:

A - Left money on the table when two qualified bidders had low ball figures.

B - Threw their plans out the window and just took money, damn the results.

No one is forced into a bidding war. Developers low ball, sellers bid up. developers pay what hey think the property is worth, sellers maximize value. If the developers have not lowballed, they don't up their bid. If they are willing to up their bid they lowballed. So...how does that make WSU evil as you imply?
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4282
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 5:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No one will accuse me of being a Wayne State slappy but if demolition of the annex is the price to be paid for condos the University Towers parking lot and filling in that key block of Woodward then it is well worth it. Now if the construction crew working on that site were to accidentally knock over University Towers...I would certainly shed a tear. I have so many happy memories of working in University Towers. Like the time someone air conditioning leaked into my work space and it took maintenance four days to check out the problem or the bi-weekly fire alarm tests or the mid-week, mid-day shut-downs of the building's water. So many memories.

Also if you want to find an answer to this land sale question that Future City and Skulker are arguing over, I suggest someone file a FOIA request and get the straight dope.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 507
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 5:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My statement is fact. OF THE TWO FINALISTS, the project went to the highest bidder. The final two were indeed forced into a bidding war. There is no denying it. I clarified, to help you understand, that's all.

I never said or implied Wayne State was evil. I said that their development has been a mixed bag for the North Cass Neighborhood (lots of bad, some good). And clearly, if you look at what's been built (and demolished) that is the case.

Are they TRYING to do better? It seems so. Will South University Village be a jewel or dog? I'm waiting to see what actually gets built (siting, materials, pedestrianism, parking, etc). With their track record, we all should be skeptical.
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1072
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 5:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a "wayne state slappy"? is that what they replaced the tartar with jelk? :-)

anyway, are you talking about one specific project future? which one? 55 canfield and the willy's overland lofts went to two different development corporations.
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Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3738
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 6:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey dip shit!

quote:

Mbr I don't know what you mean by Wayne State being a part of the development of 55 W and Willis Overland outside of unloading the properties to the highest private bidder. Did they not sell it to the highest private bidder? Why yes they did!



Your revised and back peddling statements in your recent post does not reflect your original contention that the building was simply sold to the highest bidder nor does it reflect the tone and tenor of your posts in between...your "clarification" is only to make yourself look less foolish.

Grow a spine.

As a side note in general to the forum:
It may seem like I am being a complete raging jerk to many of the noobs here, but consider this tough love. There was a time that undisciplined and ill thought out posts were fair game for all to whack away at. There was a rigor of thought and debate that is completely missing these days.

Perhaps there are nicer ways to do encourage a general upgrade to the level of discussion and rigor here, but sometimes people need a boot up their ass.

There's a simple way to avoid a boot up the ass. Post intelligently. Have an opinion, but have a reason for the opinion and when you have one, either stand by it or change it when presented with good information that helps change your mind.
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Jonnyfive
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Username: Jonnyfive

Post Number: 30
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 6:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a noob on this site, I'd rather see fact-checking body slams than the kind of mindless rants that follow every free press article mentioning the word "detroit". Carry on.
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Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3739
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 6:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You sir, are a noble gentleman.

I am hoping that somehow you handle is an obscure reference to Jonny's Red Five, a sports memorabilia store in East Lansing whose name was a sly reference to Nigel Mansell's # 5 on the nose of his 1992 Williams Renault.


nige
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 570
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 6:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought it was a reference to the robot from the "Short Circuit" films.
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Futurecity
Member
Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 509
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 9:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skulker - It is now clear that you are the biggest fool on the forum. Promoting more surface parking and shitty architecture at Wayne State is just unbelievable.
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Jonnyfive
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Username: Jonnyfive

Post Number: 32
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 9:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think its a reference to "short circuit." A friend of mine called me that for years, which is why it has become my handle in many places.

Futurecity. I dont think he ever advocated surface lots. The surface lot replacing that building is part of a temporary parking lot while the construct south campus village or whatever its called. Isnt that what he said?
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 185
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 9:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hate to admit it, and I will probably end up with nightmares about it, but I agree with Skulker.
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Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3740
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 9:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please point to a sentence or paragraph in any of my posts where I have advocated more surface parking. I have noted that the Annex building is to be replaced by graduate housing and as part of the phasing, the building is to be demoed to serve as temporary parking until the current surface space is converted to pedestrian friendly retail and residential with decked parking.

I did note that I thought the university missed an opportunity to create a great lawn or landscaped garden where they instead placed parking at the law building.

Hardly "promoting more surface parking".

Shitty architecture? I don't even know where to begin with that...
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Korridorkid
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Username: Korridorkid

Post Number: 84
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 10:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skulker for Mayor!

You, my friend, are a pleasure to read, and even more exquisite when you -dropkick- cold hard facts into the soft fleshy face of ill-informed, no-talent clowns, unmistakably leaving an "I" shaped indentation for "idiot". Branding them the rest of their foruming days...

Cheers to you.

(Message edited by Korridorkid on March 29, 2007)
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Jelk
Member
Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4285
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 10:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skulker clearly you have some serious anger management issues. Maybe you should burn of incense to get you chi back in line. I also recommend transendental hop-scotch as way to clear the negativity from your aura so you can be brought back into line with Mother Nature's harmonious plan. Peace.
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 289
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 10:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Poor Skulker you are so misunderstood. Keep up the good fight!...it must be frustrating sometimes, kind of like trying to explain the sky is blue and having people jump on you for it!
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Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3741
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 11:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

F%%%%%%%%%%%%ck Y%%%%%%%%%%%%%%U Jelk.


Korridor Kid:

The gauntlet I lay down for others to pick up is to do research yourself and to hold others accountable. Post only what you know to be true and if unsure, couch it in such terms. Post thoughtfully and when folks are yammering crap and tending to silly hyperbole, call 'em out on it.
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 765
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 1:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hilarious Jelk. I have visions of Skulker kicking the dog every time he feels compelled to launch another f-bomb against a fellow forummer. Your remedy would probably work.

I have enjoyed the debate in this thread. I believe that WSU has turned the corner and that it now more fully understands the importance of its campus design to its future success as an "urban" university. The University Towers mistake won't be repeated. It is now embracing rather than shunning its location in Detroit.

I tend to agree with futurecity on the architecture issue though. While "shitty" may be a bit too harsh, the school has missed the mark with many of its new buildings. The dorms especially are disappointing. I'm not saying that they should be palatial, or that the school should have hired Frank Gehry or some other starchitect, but these brand new prominently sited buildings make almost no visual statement on the campus. Their colors are a dreary grey or beige. The entrances seem to be afterthoughts and the only purpose of the low ceilinged lobbies seem to be as a location to place the metal detectors. I can envision jittery suburban parents entering these dorms and thinking that they are visiting their children in the penitentiary. The relatively new library is only a small step above utilitarian and compares poorly to new ones elsewhere in the country.

It's a competitive world out there for students, especially the good ones. A campus sells a school just as much as a curriculum. WSU has spent several hundred million dollars in the past six years or so on new buildings. While the school has raised its profile on many levels recently, its architectural missteps comprise unfortunate lost opportunities.

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