Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Government Shutdown Previous Next
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Bratt
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Username: Bratt

Post Number: 521
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 4:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So Jennifer is threatening a Government shutdown. So what does that really mean?

All Government offices would shut down? Really?
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 302
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 4:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't you remember when Bubba did it with the federal government?
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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 1338
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 4:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What a great idea! No more money to our silly state reps and sens or that ineffective governor of ours!

d
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Bratt
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Username: Bratt

Post Number: 522
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 4:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So if they really shut down, does that mean no money is sent out and none taken in? For anything?
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Gumby
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Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1545
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 5:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It means us government workers would go without pay for a couple of days. Well us little guys at least, the congressmen and senators will not have their pay reduced, of course.
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Blueidone
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Username: Blueidone

Post Number: 11
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 5:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Think entitlement programs (FIA, etc) go out, but can't swear to that. Only skeleton crew works. Pending items will sit in limbo till they go back to work.
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Mcp001
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Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 2501
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 5:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is political brinksmanship and nothing more.

Granholm doesn't have the spine to shut down the government, especially at the "risk" of hurting those she supposedly cares about preserving their government largesse.

Hopefully, the legislature won't blink on this one.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 576
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 7:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's as childish as it is unrealistic.
While I'd still rather have her than DeVos in office, I'm appalled that she would sink to such ridiculous tactics.
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Mthouston
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Username: Mthouston

Post Number: 795
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 7:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Shut it down for a couple of weeks, Let's see if the vast majority of people notice.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11443
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 7:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about we simply pay our government officials according to their performance? In which case Granholm owes us all some serious back pay.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1947
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 8:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

but nowhere near as much as the joke of a state congress
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 720
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 8:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The federal government shutdown during the Clinton administration was because the government couldn't get its budget approved. It isn't necessarily a 'tactic' for anything as Rhymeswithrawk suggested.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5682
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YAY!!! That will teach those Neo-Cons in the Michigan Legislature to abide by her proposal for the 2% tax increase.

Way to go Granholm.

SHE IS CALLING FOR A POLITICAL CIVIL WAR IN MICHIGAN. JOIN THE FIGHT.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5683
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

REVOLUTION REVOLUTION REVOLUTION!!!!

The Michigan Revolution is here. Shut down the Neo-Con government kick them out of Lansing.
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Mthouston
Member
Username: Mthouston

Post Number: 799
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

SHE IS CALLING FOR A POLITICAL CIVIL WAR IN MICHIGAN. JOIN THE FIGHT.



Great, two titans on mediacracy battle it out in a Political Civil War. This will be truly boring.

(Message edited by Mthouston on March 28, 2007)
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Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 232
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Call her bluff, and make sure it is clear that she is to blame for the adverse effects of HER shutdown.
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 5685
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ccbatson,

The Neo-Cons in the Michigan Legislature are to blame for their mess. I want them all recalled and replace them with a Democratic Michigan Legislature.

WAR!
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5311
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 11:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why do I imagine Danny is typing with mittens and a helmet on?

Yeah, this isn't a tactic, it's something that happens when a budget can't be compromised on.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2929
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 11:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good! Let the people decide if Michigan really wants more socialism. Especially if that requires increased cigarette state excise taxes and still more excise taxes on liquor, and afterwards wine and beer. And then even higher state gas and income and inheritance taxes. And mandating that the taxpayers pay still more for teachers and government employees' salaries and healthcare benefits.

I guarantee at some point that the taxpayers will let Jenny know that she'll be leading only a relatively few to and over the cliff when she heads that way...
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1145
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 11:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If they shut the govt down, do we no longer have to pay taxes for those days? Will we save 4 percent on our income tax, six percent on goods, and 19 cents on a gallon of gas?
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Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 233
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 11:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correct it is not a tactic, but it can be used as a political tool. The trick is to communicate to the public that the other side is responsible for the impasse.
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Gmich99
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Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 171
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 11:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The government of Michigan is running out of enough money to maintain its operating expenses. The state legislature, not the governor is responsible for passing taxes, and approving the budget. The legislature rolled back taxes, but did not cut expenses. No one wants to pay taxes, or seems to recognize the purpose of taxes, but no one wants to cut any major funding to anything unless it doesn't affect them. The Michigan Constitution requires the state legislature to balance the budget. The state cannot sell its debt to China and the EU like our federal government.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5312
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 11:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ccbatson, of course it can be used as a political tool. A politician would be a fool not to when something as embarrassing as a government shutdown, happens.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 311
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 11:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd like to hear some ideas on how to cut expenses. All I hear is anti-tax talk, don't raise our taxes, lower our taxes... Then what expenses should be cut? Something has got to give.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2931
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 11:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

... and 19 cents on a gallon of gas?


It's misleading suggesting that Michigan's total gas tax is only 19 cents/gal.

Depending upon the gas price at the time, the state sales tax tacked onto the gas tax runs another 11 to 18 or so cents per gallon. So instead, Michigan's gas tax is about the highest in the country already. Only a very few states tax their gas at anywhere near 30 cents per gallon, and Michigan's is clearly over that amount.
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Dnvn522
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Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 215
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 7:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So we shouldn't have to pay sales tax on gas? Why not?
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Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 559
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 7:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She should shut it down just like Corzine did in New Jersey last year. I hope this just isn't another one of her idle threats. Maybe someone will actually start to take her seriously...

I remember driving up the NJ turnpike reading the electric signs flashing "The State of New Jersey is Closed".
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Bratt
Member
Username: Bratt

Post Number: 523
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 9:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay, so I just read that a democrat is drawing up something to propose a tax on electric companies. This would bring in $1 billion annually. If the electric companies agree to the tax, the State would agree to not allow any competition.

Excuse me? Of course they are going to agree to this. All they are going to do is pass the tax increase along to us. We need more competition you idiot! Our utility bills are already way too high.

We should have just passed the 2% service tax.
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Beavis1981
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Username: Beavis1981

Post Number: 487
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 9:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She doesn't have the balls. (pun intended) Her decisions are often wishy-washy at best. Couldn't stand up to unions and remained about as neutral as can be on the gay-marriage thing. Somebody please tell me how a f--king c_nt of a canadian is supposed to know anything about a working-class, manufacturing economy. Anyways I can't really blame her, I think that giant wart is actually an Alien implant. The wart is the one who truly "runs"<-LOL michigan.
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 837
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 9:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just shut it down.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1147
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 9:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"It's misleading suggesting that Michigan's total gas tax is only 19 cents/gal. "

Gas is a good, I mentioned the goods tax.
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Atl_runner
Member
Username: Atl_runner

Post Number: 1960
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 10:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sell the Naming rights to the State of Michigan for a few years. Introducing, the Comerica Fifth Third Bank, State of Michigan..

joke, but that's how bad the situation appears up there.
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Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8826
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 10:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Atl_runner,

I won't willingly yield my MONEY to a bank that cannot count if it is the fifth or third, I'm surely not going to gladly see our entire state maligned by their idiocy in naming! Heh.



My bet is that the Gov's hubby and his extensive staff have scheduled their vacations for this time period, so they get paid.

Whaddya think?!
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Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 580
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 10:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correct it is not a tactic, but it can be used as a political tool. The trick is to communicate to the public that the other side is responsible for the impasse.

My point exactly.
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Gumby
Member
Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1546
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 10:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.michigan.gov/docume nts/gov/eo2007-3_190893_7.pdf
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Dnvn522
Member
Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 224
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 11:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

She doesn't have the balls.

Why not? She's done it before.
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Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 245
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 9:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Privatization is how to cut expenses. All state run programs would be assessed for feasability, open bidding to private companies, once privatized, the costs and profits of any state run service will become, well, private. Since government is the most inefficient way to run a business, guaranteed to lose money, give the private sector the opportunity.
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Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 754
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 10:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

So we shouldn't have to pay sales tax on gas? Why not?



The point is that Michigan levies the state sales tax on the price of gas after including the state gas tax - in other words, they tax the tax. This is the hallmark of a high-tax state.
Should five per cent appear too small,
Be thankful I don't take it all.
'Cause Im the taxman,
Yeah, Im the taxman.

(if you drive a car, car;) - Ill tax the street....
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1422
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 11:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am guessing that if the government was shut down there owuld be some things that we would notice and some things we would not. One big thing we would notice if schools districts (and charter schools) that would shut down. The state is supposed to pay schools their money on May 20th, which amounts to about a billion dollars. Those that have some fund balance left will still be able to operate, but most do not have enough in savings to operate. Having that many children home will definitely make people take notice.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5323
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 11:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike,

The hallmark of a high-tax state is that it has high taxes. Michigan, when ranked by total tax per capita, ranked number 18 in 2005 according to the census, outranked by such states as Arkansas and Minnesota. When ranked by State-Local Tax Burdens, by rate in 2005 by CNNMoney.com, Michigan ranked 22nd. Really, I could find all types of different tax measures, it's evident that Michigan generally ranks in the middle.

This is not to argue that out tax system is outdated or couldn't be made more efficient. I think it's pretty obvious that it is. I guess my point is that you don't have to mis-represent Michigan as a "high-tax" state to advocate for better and lower taxing.
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Planner_727
Member
Username: Planner_727

Post Number: 97
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 12:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A government shutdown typically involves prioritizing the critical operations needed. The State Police will not stop operating or cut shifts, but they'll stop any cadet training classes, put promotions and overtime on hold, and cancel training sessions. Schools likely will still recieve their payments; there are certain things that would do irreprable harm.

On a side note, I work with urban and transportation planning on a private level, and we have heard just today that there is a freeze on all State grants. Several projects we were working on have contacted us to stop work until they have funding restored. Hopefully this is temporary; the grants the state issues (at least those we're dealing with) are a very efficient and pro-active use of tax dollars that have a short-term and long-term, measurable benefits for communities across the state.
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Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 248
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 1:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Number 1 is the highest tax state, right? So, bottom third or so.....Anything wrong with being the best? Bottom third with an acutely depressed economy doesn't sound good at all.
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Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 756
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 1:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan tries to convince us that Michigan is not a high tax state by offering ranking examples that show our state being the 18th and 22nd least tax-friendly state out of 50.

But doesn't that mean that a majority of the states have lower taxes than Michigan?

Don't let that confuse you, take it from Lmichigan, we're not a high-tax state - why we're almost down near the middle of the pack! Yay!

But if Granholm has her way, we'll be moving up the ranking charts with a bullet! Seems Michigan's government needs more revenue to fund the gov's proposed budget spending increase and there's no longer any employment growth to count on.

Michigan: "taxing your gas taxes until you die, then we'll tax your FULL estate if you make the mistake of letting it grow past $2M".
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Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 259
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 10:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It seems to me that it is a very bad time to be a liberal Governor in Michigan. When times aren't so bad (and they are so bad right now thanks to organized labor) the citizenry will tolerate more taxation which is the core MO of liberals. Right now the exact opposite is true. The only hedge in favor of socialist liberals is the large group of dependants created by their entitlement programs making for a large block of voters that are obligated by circumstances to vote for the liberals. Problem is, the economy can't sustain the revenues required for Granholm to feed her dependents. For this to happen, the non dependent productive citizens have to provide the revenue. Ask them to do so, when a neighboring state doesn't and watch how fast they move away (ala Comerica). Maybe the electorate will wise up in the next election cycle.
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Bobj
Member
Username: Bobj

Post Number: 1887
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 9:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ccbatson,

The lines who spends more are a bit blurry with the Bushman bringing on the deficit spending he has at the Federal level, additionally, Jenny inherited a mess from the other big spender, Mr Engler.

I am not in favor of more taxes. What I am in favor of is the Dems and Republican sitting down and coming up with spending cuts that make sense and and not all this gamesmenship that has gone on. If after careful consideration of the needs of the State, more taxes are needed, then so be it.

We do need a replacement for the Single Business Tax, we cannot cut our way out of that.
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Mthouston
Member
Username: Mthouston

Post Number: 814
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 10:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

When times aren't so bad (and they are so bad right now thanks to organized labor) the citizenry will tolerate more taxation which is the core MO of liberals



That,s a pretty bold statement
Cc do really believe that organized labor in cause for Michigan economic problems?
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Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline

Post Number: 772
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 10:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CC has a good job, works hard and deserves to keep his money. Income taxes are socialist. He also deserves to live in his home worth several hundred thousand dollars and not pay property taxes over, say about $3000. None of those state employees or school employees work as hard as he does and we don't need a lot of them anyway. Those extra employees, as well as all those poor folks who get entitlements like Medicaid and AFDC are sponging off of hard working folks like CC.

Oh, and by the way, CC also deserves a fully funded Social Security old age benefit, a beefed up Medicare and especially that nice new Medicare prescription drug benefit. Those aren't really entitlements, he earned them through hard work.

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